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Swindon Town FC => Other Football Stuff => Topic started by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 08:19:34



Title: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 08:19:34
If this pandemic lasts for 12 or 18 months before things return to whatever normal is then, what state will football, as we know it, be in?

There’s no way a host of clubs, ourselves included, could survive with no income. Players get laid off, owners whose businesses fund clubs go bankrupt. Even the big boys whose wage bill is virtually what they get from TV and sponsors will not be immune.

What would STFC fans do without STFC?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 08:48:50
It won't last that long, we'll have all had it by then if we are going to catch it.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 08:48:50
well, we have to hope that doesn't happen. So many businesses will go under not just football

from an stfc point of view we'd need financial help. But there are bugger fish to fry for the government.

Maybe a mothballing of the club and with minimum maintenance and layoff of all staff with the hope of resurrecting it later?

But I think 12-18 months is alarmist even if hypothetical. hopefully


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 08:57:13
There won't be much point in keeping people isolated after a point, surely? The whole idea is to slow the spread to help the health system cope. What's the point in keeping people inside when most of us have already had it?

Although a second wave in the winter could be troublesome I suppose. Which was supposedly what Boris was trying to account for in his bungled attempt at dealing with it.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 09:02:41
I assume even with the PL now there are going to be issues, yes they have the TV money but that's based upon a contract to provide football for the broadcasters to show, will depend what the contracts say but as the PL is not providing the service its contracted to provide are the TV companies going to want their cash back?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 09:06:43
As I said originally, one of the biggest problems will be how some owner’s businesses have fared during the crisis. If they are close to being unsustainable I’d imagine they’d jettison a football club pretty quickly if it meant their core business survived.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: singingiiiffy on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 09:10:23
I assume even with the PL now there are going to be issues, yes they have the TV money but that's based upon a contract to provide football for the broadcasters to show, will depend what the contracts say but as the PL is not providing the service its contracted to provide are the TV companies going to want their cash back?

well sky and bt have said no refunds to customers so surely they cant ask for money back from clubs.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 09:22:27
As I said originally, one of the biggest problems will be how some owner’s businesses have fared during the crisis. If they are close to being unsustainable I’d imagine they’d jettison a football club pretty quickly if it meant their core business survived.

Where does Power actually get his cash from?

well sky and bt have said no refunds to customers so surely they cant ask for money back from clubs.

Will all depend what the contracts say I suspect?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Panda Paws on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 09:24:47
Clubs will mothball - lay off all non-playing staff and as many players as possible and then rebuild as and when they have to.

I'd imagine we'd go bowl-in-hand to the council for a break on rent, ask fans to contribute to the running costs of a mothballed organisation. If there are no players, no staff, no rent and minimal operating costs, the entity survives but the rebuild would be carnage.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Panda Paws on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 09:25:24
well sky and bt have said no refunds to customers so surely they cant ask for money back from clubs.

Sky will allow you to remove your sports subscription with notice charge.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: swindonmaniac on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 09:32:32
Clubs will mothball - lay off all non-playing staff and as many players as possible and then rebuild as and when they have to.

I'd imagine we'd go bowl-in-hand to the council for a break on rent, ask fans to contribute to the running costs of a mothballed organisation. If there are no players, no staff, no rent and minimal operating costs, the entity survives but the rebuild would be carnage.
But if the fans have no income,  no work.............   vicious circle,  it ain't gonna end pretty.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 10:05:53
Where does Power actually get his cash from?
I was just thinking the self same thing. For all the time being here and, supposedly, injecting funds regularly, just where does he get it from?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 10:09:06
I was just thinking the self same thing. For all the time being here and, supposedly, injecting funds regularly, just where does he get it from?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/01/mafia-bust-how-do-mobsters-make-a-living-in-the-21st-century.html


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Badger on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 10:15:52
The Italian spirit is alive and well in Marsh Farm Luton

https://twitter.com/CamLTFC1/status/1239327611265986565


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 10:31:03
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/01/mafia-bust-how-do-mobsters-make-a-living-in-the-21st-century.html

Coming to a Facebook site near you soon!!


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 10:31:18
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/01/mafia-bust-how-do-mobsters-make-a-living-in-the-21st-century.html
Ah. That explains it. Ta.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 10:39:02
TBH I think Power has lots of fingers in lots of pies, probably will have a cash flow problem though, definately going to be challenging times for him and the club and all of lower league football too.



Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 11:06:48
We could be better off than most as we have just got a chunk of season ticket money in. Clubs that haven't started season ticket sales yet will be running on fumes. I listened to the Price of Football podcast on this subject earlier this week, they reckoned it would cost c £15m to replace the lost income for the 4/5 games remaining for all L1 and L2 clubs (which are the clubs most at risk) i.e. it would cost each PL club £750k to make a solidarity payment to keep the bottom 2 divisions going. Or possibly the PL itself which apparently had cash reserves of over £1bn at the start of the season might dip in to help out.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 11:12:48
We could be better off than most as we have just got a chunk of season ticket money in. Clubs that haven't started season ticket sales yet will be running on fumes. I listened to the Price of Football podcast on this subject earlier this week, they reckoned it would cost c £15m to replace the lost income for the 4/5 games remaining for all L1 and L2 clubs (which are the clubs most at risk) i.e. it would cost each PL club £750k to make a solidarity payment to keep the bottom 2 divisions going. Or possibly the PL itself which apparently had cash reserves of over £1bn at the start of the season might dip in to help out.
Therein lies the problem, the Premier League, who never make money available further down the ladder to help out anyone.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 11:15:46
Therein lies the problem, the Premier League, who never make money available further down the ladder to help out anyone.
I think they may have to this time, or risk the English football pyramid as we know it just collapsing. That's a lot of cheap lower league talent they will miss out on if that happens, it will certainly cost them more than £750k each to replace from abroad. Assuming they even can buy in from abroad in a post-virus, post-Brexit world.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 11:45:00
they reckoned it would cost c £15m to replace the lost income for the 4/5 games remaining for all L1 and L2 clubs (which are the clubs most at risk)

What about the Championship, with the wages there compared to the revenues I wonder whether this is the real ticking time bomb!


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 11:47:35
What about the Championship, with the wages there compared to the revenues I wonder whether this is the real ticking time bomb!
Yes I thought that too. They didn't discuss that, frustratingly, just what kind of bailout the bottom two divisions would need and how (comparatively) easy it would be to provide it and how the PL clubs would largely be all right (for now). But if this goes on for 6 months or more, it could start to impact PL clubs as well - large contracts and no income, although a lot of those contracts are heavily incentivised so with no matches being played it would just be base salary they need to pay out


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 19:33:06
Latest from the EFL

‘The EFL Board met today to discuss the implications of the COVID-19 outbreak for the League and its Clubs.

After receiving a detailed brief on a number of matters, the Board reaffirmed that the health and well-being of EFL staff, players, Club employees and supporters would remain central to all decisions in these fast-changing circumstances.

The EFL Board also acknowledges the positive role that member Clubs are playing in community solidarity, especially in supporting the vulnerable at this time.

2019/20 SEASON SCHEDULE

The primary objective, in order to protect competition integrity, is to deliver a successful conclusion to the 2019/20 season, subject to the over-riding priority around health and well-being. Plans continue to be developed on the agreed principle that it is in the best interests of the EFL and Clubs to complete the current season at the appropriate time.

The EFL is continuing regular dialogue with the Government and relevant health authorities and, as and when more information is known regarding the scale and extent of the coronavirus outbreak in this country, a decision will be taken on the resumption of the League’s fixtures.

Conversations will continue with the EFL’s counterparts at the FA, the Premier League, the PFA and the LMA to ensure football achieves a joined-up and collaborative approach.

FINANCIAL SUPPORT

As part of the League’s continued contingency planning, the Board heard the comments and observations from EFL Clubs, before discussing a number of issues including the current financial position and implications, insurance, regulatory matters and broadcasting arrangements.

Discussions centred on financial relief for Clubs in the short term and while there is no one single solution, measures are to be put in place to immediately assist with cash flow via a £50million short-term relief package.

This fund consists of the remaining Basic Award payments being advanced to Clubs immediately, with the remainder made up through interest-free loan facility available to Clubs, calculated in line with the EFL’s Article of Associations.

The cash injection is included as part of a series of measures, that includes potential Government support to help Clubs and their associated businesses through this period of uncertainty.  The EFL welcomes last night’s announcement made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and is continuing discussions to understand how our Clubs can access the funding made available to support businesses.

In addition, we will continue our discussions with our football partners to determine how we can all get through this difficult, challenging and unprecedented situation.

CONTINGENCY PLANNING

The EFL, through a dedicated taskforce, continues to review the threat posed by the coronavirus pandemic, and its impact on our Clubs and competitions.

Alongside ensuring the 2019/20 season reaches a successful conclusion, protecting the EFL and its Clubs is a key priority for the EFL Board, who have today agreed on the following objectives to support future decision-making:

Ensure the health and well-being of our Clubs’ employees, supporters and communities
Make a positive contribution to the UK’s efforts to tackle coronavirus
Protect the EFL’s financial model and Club finances
Enable the EFL to continue to function as a business
Deliver a successful conclusion to the 2019/20 season’


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Bob's Orange on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 19:40:26
Not STFC related but....

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-ask-players-and-staff-take-50-cent-wage-cut-due-coronavirus-2493718


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 19:42:37
Latest from the EFL
Fair play that £50m could make a big difference to a lot of clubs. Suspect it's not quite enough still though, and again, would be nice to see the PL chucking in a few crumbs from down the back of their sofas. Could save L1 and L2 without breaking a sweat


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 19:59:01
Not STFC related but....

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-ask-players-and-staff-take-50-cent-wage-cut-due-coronavirus-2493718
On a brighter note

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51943721

(Not a criticism of Hearts I get that they operate in a completely different financial landscape)


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Thursday, March 19, 2020, 15:18:09
Coronavirus: English football suspension extended until at least 30 April - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51962751

Dale Vince at his finest suggesting the EFL season could have been finished? I thought their season ended a while ago.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Thursday, March 19, 2020, 19:54:08
All L2 clubs to get £284,000 from the EFL


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: THE FLASH on Friday, March 20, 2020, 16:43:08
Fair play that £50m could make a big difference to a lot of clubs. Suspect it's not quite enough still though, and again, would be nice to see the PL chucking in a few crumbs from down the back of their sofas. Could save L1 and L2 without breaking a sweat
Or the FA...they are only ever good at ripping the wallets off fans.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: swindonmaniac on Saturday, March 21, 2020, 12:02:30
So what happens.......  On a Saturday afternoon,  no footy, no pub....divorce cases are sure to rocket over the coming months !!!!.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: JBZ on Saturday, March 21, 2020, 20:01:16
Perhaps we will be drawn closer together.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 18:36:47
Southern, Isthmian and Northern Leagues (feeders into the National League/Conference) have begun the process to terminate the season now. Up in the air how the season will be concluded and what happens with promotion/relegation etc

https://www.betvictorsouthern.co.uk/News/124013/League-Statement-Season-201920-#.XnpAJk4nehc.twitter


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Panda Paws on Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 19:44:21
They can't void unless the whole pyramid does, otherwise what happens with those relegated from above?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 19:53:56
They can't void unless the whole pyramid does, otherwise what happens with those relegated from above?
From reading the statement, the pressing issue appears to be that they need to end the season due to financial pressure on clubs otherwise. And they're happy to go along with whatever the NL decide about how to conclude the season i.e. void if that's what the NL do, PPG if the NL do decide to complete the season in some way.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Costanza on Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 20:04:40
Sort of inevitable in the semi-professional leagues as unfortunate as it is.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: theakston2k on Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 21:28:02
From reading the statement, the pressing issue appears to be that they need to end the season due to financial pressure on clubs otherwise. And they're happy to go along with whatever the NL decide about how to conclude the season i.e. void if that's what the NL do, PPG if the NL do decide to complete the season in some way.
PPG would be ideal for us if the football league eventually have to go down that route.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 13:45:05
I know it’s the Daily Star but it looks like the National League are going to call time on the current season and promote Barrow and Harrogate to L2. So, if the EFL season doesn’t conclude they’ll be 26 teams in L2 next season.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/national-league-vote-immediately-end-21750382.amp?__twitter_impression=true


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 13:50:35
I know it’s the Daily Star but it looks like the National League are going to call time on the current season and promote Barrow and Harrogate to L2. So, if the EFL season doesn’t conclude they’ll be 26 teams in L2 next season.
That's not in the National League's gift without the cooperation of the Football League. The National League can say "These are the top two and we think they should go up" but if the Football League doesn't conclude then the League could just say no promotion or relegation this season and keep it to the current 23 teams (or more likely accept the top one from the National League to make it up to 24). So even if the Star's report is accurate as to what the National League will decide (which is just speculation on their part), their conclusions are bollocks.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Bob's Orange on Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 14:01:55
That's not in the National League's gift without the cooperation of the Football League. The National League can say "These are the top two and we think they should go up" but if the Football League doesn't conclude then the League could just say no promotion or relegation this season and keep it to the current 23 teams (or more likely accept the top one from the National League to make it up to 24). So even if the Star's report is accurate as to what the National League will decide (which is just speculation on their part), their conclusions are bollocks.

Surely the other clubs that have a chance of promotion will take legal action over that?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 14:06:52
Surely the other clubs that have a chance of promotion will take legal action over that?
Probably. Although that's if they can afford it, a lot of NL clubs are going to be absoutely brassic, laying off staff etc already, not sure they're going to have money to throw around on legal challenges?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Bob's Orange on Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 14:20:28
Probably. Although that's if they can afford it, a lot of NL clubs are going to be absoutely brassic, laying off staff etc already, not sure they're going to have money to throw around on legal challenges?

Well that's a very good point as well. Messy isn't it?


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 10:39:05
Forest Green put all their staff, including playing staff, on furlough, using the 80% wage scheme:

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/forest-green-rovers-use-wage-3979490

Not sure if they're the first league club to do this, damn sure they won't be the last


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: @mwooly63 on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 10:49:32
Forest Green put all their staff, including playing staff, on furlough, using the 80% wage scheme:

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/forest-green-rovers-use-wage-3979490

Not sure if they're the first league club to do this, damn sure they won't be the last

Leeds players and staff voted for a wage deferral.
The government scheme is up to a max of £2500 a month so cant see many outside of league 2 and lower taking advantage of that.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 11:54:25
Leeds players and staff voted for a wage deferral.
Think I read Exeter have agreed to 50% wage cut, but may have that wrong. Barca in talks about 70% pay cut too.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/25/barcelona-in-talks-to-cut-player-wages-by-up-to-70-during-coronavirus-lockdown
The government scheme is up to a max of £2500 a month so cant see many outside of league 2 and lower taking advantage of that.
Might apply to quite a few L1 players as well, esp if the alternative is 50-75% cuts or even nothing. But you're right, can't see it being used in Championship and above, I was mainly thinking about L1/L2/Conference really


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: @mwooly63 on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 13:39:00
BREAKING: Germany's Champions League clubs, Borussia Dortmund, FC Bayern München, RB Leipzig and Bayer Leverkusen, have pledged a €20m financial package to support clubs in Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 who are struggling because of coronavirus. 👏🏼🇩🇪 https://t.co/UI6qXDRTwA


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: tans on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 15:01:56
That's not in the National League's gift without the cooperation of the Football League. The National League can say "These are the top two and we think they should go up" but if the Football League doesn't conclude then the League could just say no promotion or relegation this season and keep it to the current 23 teams (or more likely accept the top one from the National League to make it up to 24). So even if the Star's report is accurate as to what the National League will decide (which is just speculation on their part), their conclusions are bollocks.

From the Non League Paper:

BREAKING: Non-League Steps 3 to 6 have reached a consensus that the 2019/20 season will be ended with immediate effect and all results will be expunged.

This will mean that there will be no promotion or relegation of Clubs between Steps 3 to 6, or relegation from Step 2.

These decisions will also apply to the leagues and clubs at Step 7 of the National League System.

The FA will continue to assist and support the National League to determine the outcome of the 2019/20 season.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: tans on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 15:03:31
Step 2 is National league North/south

Step 1 is National league


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 15:14:18
For us there is either going to a repeat of 1989/90 and 30 years on denied promotion because of off the field matters.

Alternatively a little bit of retribution 30 years on and we could be promoted without concluding the season.

The other irony is 1989/90 was the last time Liverpool won the league.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 15:37:01
From the Non League Paper:

BREAKING: Non-League Steps 3 to 6 have reached a consensus that the 2019/20 season will be ended with immediate effect and all results will be expunged.

This will mean that there will be no promotion or relegation of Clubs between Steps 3 to 6, or relegation from Step 2.

These decisions will also apply to the leagues and clubs at Step 7 of the National League System.

The FA will continue to assist and support the National League to determine the outcome of the 2019/20 season.
Original FA statement is here (says the same, NLP have copied and pasted pretty much):

http://www.thefa.com/news/2020/mar/26/national-league-system-womens-football-pyramid-grassroots-covid-19-update-260320


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 16:10:20
Ooof, supermarine were 4th which I’m guessing would have been a play off place


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Costanza on Thursday, March 26, 2020, 16:12:56
As mentioned yesterday, it was inevitable for that level.

One or two teams playing catch-up because of cup runs and postponements is one thing but multiple levels all scrambling when players and staff have other commitments etc. was never going to happen.

Supermarine have indeed lost what would have been their highest finish. Expunged. Gone. A gutter for them.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: tans on Friday, March 27, 2020, 18:26:18
EFL statement

Quote
The Premier League, EFL and PFA met today and discussed the growing seriousness of the COVID-19 pandemic.

It was stressed that the thoughts of all three organisations continue to be with everyone affected by the virus.

The Premier League, EFL and PFA agreed that difficult decisions will have to be taken in order to mitigate the economic impact of the current suspension of professional football in England and agreed to work together to arrive at shared solutions.


The leagues will not recommence until April 30 at the earliest. They will only do so when it is safe and conditions allow.

Further meetings will take place next week with a view to formulating a joint plan to deal with the difficult circumstances facing the leagues, their clubs, players, staff and fans.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Peter Venkman on Friday, March 27, 2020, 18:28:35
Judging by that the EFL seem to want to finish the season, which is good. Things can change very quickly though.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: donkey on Friday, March 27, 2020, 18:37:14
Judging by that the EFL seem to want to finish the season, which is good. Things can change very quickly though.

Either sorted by ppg or complexity of nearest roundabout (Flashheart's idea, I think).

If they bin off the season how can we be sure any game we watch again will count.  That would be a terrible decision.


Title: Re: So, What Happens . . .
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, March 27, 2020, 18:41:26
Either sorted by ppg or complexity of nearest roundabout (Flashheart's idea, I think).


It would be a fucking scandal if they don't adopt it. (Or any other option that sees us promoted).