Thetownend.com

https://lofcforum.boards.net/thread/11499/swindon-os-18-04-2022

Orient fans seem to think we get about half to 3/4 the crowds that we actually do.

5,950?  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: Can't remember when we had a crowd that low. Be a good crowd for orient mind, maybe that's where the confusion is?

10,854 (402 away) 1-1

Let’s see if the town end can try and find their voices today!

Be nice to hear the rest of the ground put some effort in  ::)

Bit weird this ? Similar comments on Facebook too ! Smacks of blame culture ? Not exactly encouraging.
2-1 win COYR

Based on a lot of Facebook I assume they are hoping that the Town End will be chanting Wellens name today?

Even Bobby Smith for a couple of seasons😀

I don't remember Bobby coming back managing another team?

Like Wellens, he had 1/2 good seasons followed by a very poor one.

Even if I was there I would clap him onto the arena but not sing his name.

I appreciate what he did for the club but fucking hell hes no Danny Williams, Macari, Hoddle or Ardiles.

Are you looking into the future maybe when an aggressive bonus point is awarded over the two games😀

What a good idea

No Baudry today so JOB slots in. Expecting Williams to start for Payne who’s been off the boil a bit recently and Odimayo for Hunt

SWINDON TOWN STARTING XI 👥 | Wollacott; Odimayo, Iandolo, Conroy (C), Davison, O'Brien, Egbo, Barry, Tomlinson, Payne, Reed.

SUBS | Ward, Baudry, Gladwin, Williams, Aguiar, Parsons, Cowmeadow.

Be interesting to see if we are up against "clown" Vigs or "superman" Vigs today. Hes a real dual personality keeper.

Hes the only ex Town player in the squad for O's today no place for Nouble or Harry Smith.

Wow either Smith is injured or suffered a massive loss of form since he destroyed us at theirs

Smith came out of the tunnel about ten minutes ago and is sitting in the dugout on his own.

Smith has gone from undropable under KJ to hardly making the starting 11 since RW came in and not made the bench on a couple of occasions too.

Think he has fallen out of favour, not really a Wellens player

I would take him back as an option up front.

He'd be perfect for what we need

Result: Draw
Att: 10, 492
Ian booked

For shirt pulling I presume!

The ref will certainly "dolo" a booking out for that today :)

Thats worthy of a booking!

 :cheese:

Are you getting chance to make the trip again to Town before the season is out mate?

Team as expected for me.  Baudry was never going to play 2 games this weekend, McKirdy was never going to be ready for this game (irrelevant of the noises being made in the press calls) and he would have been foolish to drop Egbo back to RB after the impact he had on Friday, so bringing Odimayo in was the sensible option.

Winning this game will come down to one thing, will Davison and Barry have their good shooting boots on today or not - time will tell

Wife not happy. Patio half cleaned. Crap everywhere. Bloody window cleaner turned up! I'm watching the footie!

With my own health and my wifes too its unlikely mate, but never say never!

Sam Alison referee from Trowbridge?  Had a decent game last time he was here if I remember right..

Watching on a stream. I'm colour blind so no hope of telling the teams apart... this could be fun

He has only reffed us once that I can find, the JPT 3-1 win away at Plymuff.

Watching on a stream. I'm colour blind so no hope of telling the teams apart... this could be fun

I am sure I remember his reffing a game at the CG earlier this season

Yep the web site I checked was wrong, he reffed the Northampton win too.

Did Wellens get any applause when he came out?

I wasn't going mad then :D

It would be wrong to agree or disagree....

Payne clean thro but hes tackled in the box, corner to Town, after a lovely long ball from JOB and from Barry.

Davison felled in the middle, booking for the defender.

I’m afraid it looks like it should have been Conroy on the scorer.  ::)

Whatever you say about Conroy,that was shit awareness. He is a liability I'm afraid

Woolacotts fault again

Whatever you say about Conroy,that was shit awareness. He is a liability I'm afraid

Awful long pass from Reed, come on Town play smarter.

As I said earlier, 3 errors, 1st Iandolo for conceding a needless foul under little pressure, then Conroy for marking and then Jojo for not claiming it.

What’s our record like against teams with 10 men? I can remember Colchester which wasn’t great

Can’t fault the referring so far in fairness.

I would like to see Williams on sooner than later.   Need his leadership

Not sure about leadership, but dribbling and running, yes

I guess I don’t know that either but I do know this is the season so get the best players on the pitch now

+7 mins sounds mean to me.

How many times has Duke told us Conroy is one of our only players able to pass the ball.

We are not really at the races today so far.

I'd willingly sacrifice that for the ability to defend to be honest

My point was his passing today has been fucking hopeless.

Nope. Can't think of anyone who I would say has played well

Tomlinson's been alright. And Payne. Attack v defence now so going to be a very different game.

I think its Paynes poorest game so far TBH.

HT 0-1

Egbo’s been the biggest source of danger for us.

Well, we've not been good but the Orient lad getting a dumb red card has handed us a lifeboat. Need a second half performance like we put in plenty in the first half of the season - lots of those were inspired by Williams coming off the bench and changing the tempo so fingers crossed.

On another note, I'm sure I should know - who is the guy in the Papa John's ad that looks like Robbie Savage's meth addict uncle?

Bullard

A video could be made of our efforts for the past 20 minutes on how not to play against 10 men.

Can someone please tell Reed to fuck off and leave the central defenders alone when we have the ball.  Nobody is going to pressure them so one is always free to pass to if needed.  Reed getting in between them is just allowing Orient to set up their lines.

Also, can someone else tell Davison to fuck off from dropping back towards our defenders.  For fucks sake.  A central striker in a game where the other team are a man down and he has consistently dropped deep.  At least twice that led to us attacking, crossing, and nobody being in the fucking middle while he trots forward to try and get back into position.

The wide ball is on, get Reed further forwards and either pull players central to him with the pass, or move wide quickly.

Grrrr.

Can't see us scoring at all

Williams on for Tomlinson

Is tomilson hurt?

Nope.

We have gone 3 at the back now.

I know I am the dumb ass American but I don’t take one of my better players of the field.  There are others that could have come off and adjust from there. 

Dive by the O's striker, should have been a booking.

Not how Hawes saw it.

Not how Hawes saw it.

Season over.

Paddy O'beckons

Can’t defend balls in the box once more

We just defended a ball into their box quite well...

With garrner at the helm next season whats going to change. :suicide: but at least we have a club. :)

Yeah Conroy did well to clear it :D

That come from Jojo not claiming that ball into the box! Why’s he not coming for that!!

Makes a change

That come from Jojo not claiming that ball into the box! Why’s he not coming for that!!

Hes not been anywhere near as good since he qualified for the WC Finals, like his head is not in the game.

If only he could do it in OUR box when defending.

DoB has a list on his bedroom wall.

Has DoB been shagging your Mrs on the side?

He only has eyes for Conroy

We are only lacking in 2 things.

Defending and scoring goals. The rest of it we are fine at.

No movement up top or in midfield at the moment.  When the backline or Reed have it at the back, there is absolutely nothing happening in front of them to give them an option..

No movement up top or in midfield at the moment.  When the backline or Reed have it at the back, there is absolutely nothing happening in front of them to give them an option..

No movement up top or in midfield at the moment.  When the backline or Reed have it at the back, there is absolutely nothing happening in front of them to give them an option..

If I was Conroy or O'Brien I'd have lost my shit with Reed a while back.  Against 10 he has no business coming back between them, constantly.

Why do we have so many players that can’t last 90 minutes

I don’t know if I want Garner to go or stay, but his inability to change our home form is a massive concern.

71% possession though, fuck yeah

I'll do Walsall away but that's the season over for me.

Really nice combination of Reed and Williams there. Let's fucking go.

There will be a bunch of discussion about gardner but to be fair.  He is coaching a team where 50% of the players don’t really belong on the pitch and he has had to build a team twice now with those type of players.   He has been coaching a team without a striker at all since mckirdy went down.  His best players for the most part are young loaner players.  

Not sure what he can really do

Try showing some game management skills would be a start

Garner has done enough under the circumstances to earn/deserve another crack at a rebuild in the summer and the start of next season.

If the personnel changes but the tactics/game plan does not change at all and/or have a plan b - then we need to get him out and someone else in by November to give them a chance to assess and the January window

If the Modus Operandi is just to stay in L2 for the foreseeable then they won't get rid. The club will spout some bollocks about continued restructuring. They chose the perfect CEO in Rob Angus an ex Banking Professional to reel out the lines of elongated corporate PR bollocks that even puts me to shame  :D Glorified bloody loan agent in my eyes with a gift of the gab no doubt.

Yep and they should read this, fans will be angry as currently there are more questions than there are answers. IF they show intent for next season being a true promotion push and not a watered down attempt in order to push the marketing campaign to get more money in (yet no real interest in getting promoted) then maybe that'll change.

It's fucking frustrating becasue with the absolute shite in this division, Town could quite easily have got automatic promotion - maybe even as Champs. I still think the actual club strategy was to NOT obtain promotion. Because they currently don't have the money to finance a club in L1. No matter how many fans turn up. Clem's talks of establishing a Championship club is mere pipedreams from the same copybook as the former incumbant Tony Tucker.

This club (definitively the club's strong of owners) is really starting to boil my piss! Ahh fuck it. Beer O'clock!

Unfortunately we look every bit a combination of a team with too diverse a talent pool and lacking in anything close to street smarts.  Both of those can and should be fixed given the foundation crowds of 10k plus should have provided for a club at this level.  All season long Garner has felt to me like he is still running an Academy, where the success criteria is just so vastly different.  He is probably a fair enough choice given the limitations we had going into the season, but he has to show something different and sharpish over the summer.  On top of that, a lot of goodwill will evaporate if investment isn't forthcoming in the squad.  Not crazy spending, but we can't hope to be successful if we have 5 or 6 payers like Aguiar in the first team squad (not picking on him, just using him as an example of the gap between our playing ability across the squad).

How many will renew STs after witnessing an entire season of shite home performances?

If Garner can’t fashion a system that works at home after 20 odd games there’s no reason to think he will next season.

Losing, hopefully not lost, a whole heap of goodwill.

Really hope we don’t get the usual Garner post match bollocks.

Difficult to know where to start with this rubbish! There is very little evidence to support your view, and a significant amount to refute it. They must be livid with Davison scoring 8 in 17 on loan. They should have got one of those 0 in 17 strikers! I think the plan, rather than not progress (your view of what’s happening) is conditional progression (do as well as we can within our means, ie, break the insolvency cycle). And Rob Angus and Morfuni deserve more credit and respect than that…

I honestly dont remember the Iandolo "penalty incident". Anyone?

I honestly dont remember the Iandolo "penalty incident". Anyone?

Blame who you like, I've been sat in the Arkells listening to a fuc king moany "get it forward " expert behind me.

Plenty of righteous criticism of Garnerball today but our support has been right on the backs of the defenders/midfielders as soon as they don't immediately hit a killer ball forward. You can afford to play it short and back and forth against 10 men and manipulate openings.  

Negative and dormouse quiet until Davison's goal.  Rather have 5,000 actual fanz.

Blame who you like, I've been sat in the Arkells listening to a fuc king moany "get it forward " expert behind me.

Plenty of righteous criticism of Garnerball today but our support has been right on the backs of the defenders/midfielders as soon as they don't immediately hit a killer ball forward. You can afford to play it short and back and forth against 10 men and manipulate openings.  

Negative and dormouse quiet until Davison's goal.  Rather have 5,000 actual fanz.

I honestly dont remember the Iandolo "penalty incident". Anyone?

our personnel has been short a striker all season jimbob

probably wouldn't have made a difference today, but would over the season

would have let us go 2 up top and taken control of the midfield better today too

our personnel has been short a striker all season jimbob

probably wouldn't have made a difference today, but would over the season

would have let us go 2 up top and taken control of the midfield better today too

Absolute wank. Had a guy tell me to get my boots on after we conceded our 2nd goal. We can’t defend a set piece which is a basic requirement of a league 2 football team. Can try all you like to take the positives out of this season lucky to have a club blah blah blah but Garner won’t last past Xmas next season. Not enough tactical nous or fighting spirit to rub off on the players. We would have won that game with wellens in charge and that personnel-there I said it-don’t give a fuck if you disagree.

I agree with most of that.

mckirdy injury was unfortunately the card that brought the house down for me though.

Hypothetical question but would wellens have got more out of this squad of players🤔

Hypothetical question but would wellens have got more out of this squad of players🤔

100% yes but alas that ship sailed a while ago sadly. So fucking annoyed with our inept performances at home.

Unsure.

We’d still be a striker short but he’d definitely set us up to be more attacking.
…not…sure he’d have signed the player we have signed in the first place and he’d have probably fallen out with some. Plus over played some to the point they were injured all the time.
Would have kept Grant around probably. Defence still would have been shite and Conroy probably still Captain.

If anything - a Garner/Wellens co management team would have supplemented each other very well…

Too many weedy, dwarf-like players. No power, no strength, no tackling.

Hypothetical question but would wellens have got more out of this squad of players🤔

Probably not.  Also, his tenure would, I suspect, have come to an abrupt end if/when another lower league gig became available.

I blame Power for wellens taking the Salford job as he seemed really happy here and under Clem I reckon he would have flourished but as above that ship sailed a long time ago.

I think we need to finally forget about 'the messiah'.

Yep, Glen fucked off to Chelsea years ago.

No meltdown Garner reckons we will definitely make the play offs if we win our last four games😀

he's probably correct.
---
while we are talking ex bosses, one is 4 points from safety with 3 to go: Salford, Tranmere, Crawley

Oh, well ... a painful end to a season that offered some excitement.

In reality, it appears highly likely that STFC would have struggled in div 3 anyway.

Next season will, I suspect, be seen as a real litmus test by those who celebrated getting their club back.  

We would make the play offs if we won our last four. But we’re not going too

League two footballers are fundamentally not good enough to be regularly successful playing the way garner wants to play - if they were, they would be at a higher level.

It will work occasionally, either when it clicks or when the opposition are open (and you have greater margin for error in attack), but I don’t believe it can work well enough or long enough to achieve much real success

In reality, it appears highly likely that STFC would have struggled in div 3 anyway.

Next season will, I suspect, be seen as a real litmus test by those who celebrated getting their club back.  

Mind you league 2 is going to be a tough league.

Please note my uses of the word "if" once with capital influence and currently this club does not have the finances to compete in L1, there's no difficulty in establishing that - simply because they don't have the finances to compete at the important end of a very shit L2.

Yet crowds have done their part and stull turned out to that fucking shite! Also been guilt tripped into deferring ST payments (the club hardly fucking acknowledged the impact of the pandemic upon the customer just how much it was hitting them). Its been a season of spin. I'll give the clib that, they've been good at that. Not sure everyone will want to be continually mugged of though, season upon season.

Like I said, there are more questions than answers. I might hit the more extreme end of issues but consider that within that, there is some that just saying it how it is and not ignoring the elephant in the room.

Davison could score 20 but if it doesn't result in promotion then no cunt will remember it "oh remember the 21/22 season when that loan kid scored 10 goals and we didn't get promoted?" get to fuck man lolz!

Steve Hale can buggar off defending the 10 men theory too. If they can't beat a 10 man team that has fuck all to play for then they don't deserve promotion.

Garner fuck off too with his usual bollocks post-match "should've had a penalty that makes it 2-2" the guy talks in fucking hypotheticals rather than focussing on what actually happened. He's an academy coach. A good academy coach but he's no manager. Oh and for about the 42nd time this season. Conroy is not a captain unless your goal is purely to stay in L2 and nothing else.

At least McGirty is back from his annual leave in West London so there are some personal positives.

STFC as it stands is becoming a sterile development club. Welcome to modern pro football.


I bet Hodgetts is creaming his undercrackers tonight. Straight on the blower to Lucerne Lee no doubt. Is he like a Rovers fan or something?! He appears to revel in announcing when Town have lost yet when they win he's quick to move onto the next news item like what's going on in the wider world of sport. It's a weird one for local radio. I get BBC "impartially" but the contrast from himself and Hawes is glaring.

Just a word on the ref.  Im always one to hammer them but I thought he had a good game considering.  Seemed to get everyone involved in the handbags and didn't let them get away with too much time wasting which they naturally did.

I remember him being good in the last game he reffed at the CG.

Of course he is a good Wiltshire lad, ex chippenham striker so Im predisposed to think he's allright.

Just a word on the ref.  Im always one to hammer them but I thought he had a good game considering.  Seemed to get everyone involved in the handbags and didn't let them get away with too much time wasting which they naturally did.

I remember him being good in the last game he reffed at the CG.

Of course he is a good Wiltshire lad, ex chippenham striker so Im predisposed to think he's allright.

Yes as Stockport and Wrexham will presumably take up 1st and 2nd (assuming, of course, they both go up)

Just a word on the ref.  Im always one to hammer them but I thought he had a good game considering.  Seemed to get everyone involved in the handbags and didn't let them get away with too much time wasting which they naturally did.

I remember him being good in the last game he reffed at the CG.

Of course he is a good Wiltshire lad, ex chippenham striker so Im predisposed to think he's allright.

Based on what?

Based on what?

It's a massive hate of mine, free kick given guaranteed someone from the oppo will stand in front of the ball/kick it away (we do this too)

should be a yellow card. it was clamped down on in the past but is back with a vengeance

he does, eventually. everyone is back in position by then

££££

Like Salford? And Mansfield when Radford went for it? Nothing is certain.

££££

Not sure it works like that - ask Salford.

Oh, well ... a painful end to a season that offered some excitement.

In reality, it appears highly likely that STFC would have struggled in div 3 anyway.

Next season will, I suspect, be seen as a real litmus test by those who celebrated getting their club back.  

Hypothetical question but would wellens have got more out of this squad of players🤔

As mentioned above, Wrexham's funding is probably on another level.  Success is not certain but Hollywood based backing probably helps a lot.

Absolutely awful today. So many of this squad are just not good enough,if you look at the team that finished today a top 10 finish actually some bloody achievement.

Anyone who knows me will know i do not scapegoat players but Jesus christ how bad were OBrien and Wollocott and don't get me started on Conroy. Can't wait for a huge clearout this summer

I will give Rob Angus his due, he went and got my son Ketchup when my Mum sent him off to do so.  However, this summer he needs to earn his CEO salary.  Sit down with Garner and lay out the expectations for next season in no uncertain terms.  Let him know he will have a top 7 budget for wages because you are budgeting on 10k crowds being sustained, but to do that, Garner is immediately on the hook to serve up a top 7 performing team to sustain those crowds.  There is now way we should be hamstrung like we were this season given the assurity the crowds should now have delivered.  Yes, debts need sorting, but a guy came in and told everyone he was going to sort those if he got the club.  He has had his way and must be bringing in far more income than had been planned for in 2021/22.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that O’Brien seems half the player he was playing alongside Conroy than when he had Cooper alongside him.

Don’t be so sure we are going to have a decent budget next season.

Why do you keep saying this? It will be healthier than this season. Don't just assume it will not be that good because certain players are not being offered deals this summer

Really?
I’ve heard further cuts.

The ground purchase could take up a big chunk of any playing budget if Clem has to put in the full £2.4M if the Eady money doesn't come through before they complete the purchase.

The wage bill next year will see some of the Power era players drop off e.g. Baudry, Lyden and maybe Payne above the £1200 pw figure but evened up by better terms to McKirdy, Ward, Wollacott etc.

Payne is on more than that as his contract was signed before the embargo.

It was reported he was on £5k, albeit Lincoln were still paying half of that.
Can’t imagine we are going to pay him that sort of figure

Why do you keep saying this? It will be healthier than this season. Don't just assume it will not be that good because certain players are not being offered deals this summer

So Conroy hasnt been offered a new deal then

Really?
I’ve heard further cuts.

So Conroy hasnt been offered a new deal then

…and that’s obviously due to finances and not the fact he’s crap.

It's obvious who your source is, let's wait and see. To post as if it's fact though is out of order in my opinion.

I get that they are trying to "run" it like a business that just does more to stay above water but football is more than a business. Akin to owning a boat, an owner must be expected to throw more money at it than it is worth to keep it afloat and will never sell it at a profit.

It's a rich persons game, when you aren't a rich human or relatively so to many in that circle, you'll struggle. Clem has a decent business, Rob Angus seemingly has good business pedigree which is good...for running a business. It just can't correlate to football as inflation in football is not in line with modern business. It has to be supplemented. That falls at the purse of the owner. If they aren't forth coming - it fails.

Jury is still out. My view at present is that Clem is just a little bit nicer version than the previous fucking toad. I don't for one minute believe he is totally clean cut (no one in football is unfortunately) - it's more annoying when they try to make out that they are though...until it unravels. Again.

My thoughts too

I get that they are trying to "run" it like a business that just does more to stay above water but football is more than a business. Akin to owning a boat, an owner must be expected to throw more money at it than it is worth to keep it afloat and will never sell it at a profit.

It's a rich persons game, when you aren't a rich human or relatively so to many in that circle, you'll struggle. Clem has a decent business, Rob Angus seemingly has good business pedigree which is good...for running a business. It just can't correlate to football as inflation in football is not in line with modern business. It has to be supplemented. That falls at the purse of the owner. If they aren't forth coming - it fails.

Jury is still out. My view at present is that Clem is just a little bit nicer version than the previous fucking toad. I don't for one minute believe he is totally clean cut (no one in football is unfortunately) - it's more annoying when they try to make out that they are though...until it unravels. Again.

Rob Angus is probably the best asset the club has at the moment. He could get a job tomorrow paying a shitload more and with much greater security. I'd be worried if he left.
I'd expect this season has been one of establishing finances and getting skeletons out. Next season they should have a much fairer idea of where the club is at and budget accordingly, whether up or down I don't know

Why do you think contacts are linked to the club?
Probably a few others have contacts in the game and not just at Swindon.

not only the last 2. But it highlights how close we were to the playoffs

Was a good game for the first 25 minutes. Orient set out to attack and both teams went toe to toe in what was entertaining. We conceded in the usual manner from an awfully defended free kick set piece which we haven't been able to look remotely like doing properly all season, I've no idea who was culpable but it was all too easy for Beckles. Then their player got the stupidest second yellow I've seen in a while and immediately Orient changes things and banked in to take what they have. We decided that the best way to get in at them was to play balls in to the wing backs, Conroy to Egbo and JOB to Ellis/Tomlinson, or more often rows C-K.

Second half more of the same interspersed with another feebly conceded second to Beckles after a period of throw in pinball. We just seemed very one dimensional even after  bringing Williams on (just remembered he came on at half time) and attempted to try something different than the balls to the wing backs. Neat one twos through the middle opened up Orient a couple of times including a nice goal by Davison. We huffed and puffed but in reality never really looked like equalising. It just felt a bit disjointed in the second half, which really sums up our season in all honesty.

Orient seemed very organised and hard working and that was all they really needed to do, we didn't have the tools or the skills to unlock them, and when we did it was too late. It's a real shame that with our run in we haven't been able to make a fist of autos or the play offs and we're going to finish around 10th. It's a platform for next season but with costs spiralling it will be interesting to see season ticket sales and what kind of budget we'll have in place for it.

Can't disagree with any of that. No sense of urgency on the pitch or in the stands.

I think that's a good way of summing it up. Casually passing between the back 2/3. Its one of my bug bears that it's our defence that always seems to try and compose something, I dont feel that our talented midfielders get involved enough the way we are setup. You saw glimpses of what we could do, Jesus with Payne, Williams and Reed on the pitch it should be manna from heaven for Davison who we never really create chance after chance for. He took his well but apart from that I can't think of much we created for the big man.

Havent read back...

I dare not.

Massively disappointing.

Got excited at the final ten minutes that we might get a draw that wasnt good enough.

We are a good team but not a great one...great ones go up.

Actually if it wasn't for the football match, I had a pretty good time at the game yesterday. Took my 5 yo daughter to her second ever game (she even watch some of it this time), Baudry gave her his signed Her Game Too warm up t-shirt and the pizza winner gave away some of his pizza to us at half time.

The managers philosophy is only as good as the players asked to deliver it. What's clear to me is that we are lacking in that department when key players are missing/having an off day.

Its not just Garner its been a problem under multiple managers for a fair few seasons (I vividly recall a game against Preston under Cooper when we were doing exactly the same - on that day it was all McEveley's fault according to the fans), to play that type of football out from the back you need defenders who are comfortable and confident on the ball, and defenders like that who can also as importantly defend will not be plying their trade in Div 4.

If the players aren’t capable of doing the things the manager is continually asking them to do, that’s on him…

The more I see of us under Garner, the more I think of Luke Williams, a great coach but not likely to be a great manager

The concern for me is most players seem to have got worse the longer the season has gone on as well as looking worse as a team collectively.

Payne, Wollocott, Reed, Williams, Hunt, Conroy have all got worse. It’s only really McKirdy and Iandolo who I actually think have improved.

Spot on, the good managers at this level can set up a side to fit their strengths.
It’s ok for the top managers to do it, because they can buy players to fit their philosophy as money is pretty much no object.

The more I see of us under Garner, the more I think of Luke Williams, a great coach but not likely to be a great manager

It’s exactly that. Garner background is academy football means his directive is play a certain way and mould the players into that system.

If they aren’t capable they get moved out and another kid comes in. If they are capable they move up and another kid comes in. It’s a conveyor belt and it’s pure trial and error and it can afford to be exactly that because results mean nothing ultimately.

At the Palace academy Garner could have lost 120 games straight but if 2 or 3 kids made it to the first team - he’s done his job.

That isn’t football management & never will be

Sorry for the long post but this is how I see it, I doubt many will agree but then they never do :)

I don't think getting rid of Garner would get us anywhere at the moment. Clem would still get in a man who wants to play passing attractive(at times) football and buy, nurture and sell young players, thats Clems remit he has admitted that already several times.

I have said since day 1 that Garner is not a manager, hes a development coach, his background is development of young players and is not tactically aware of what is needed in a cut throat results based league. He has come from a career as a youth/academy development coach, a job in which he has to be nice and get on with the young players, coach them and improve them to prepare them to get ready for the 1st team, a job he had some success with previously.

At academy level there is no pressure to get results, you just develop the players and even if you lose 3-0 week in week out your job is safe, you are under no pressure to learn how to learn game management, there is no impetus to need to change tactics to win games as the result is largely totally immaterial. He could lose every game but if he brought 1 player a season through to challenge for the 1st team then that would be considered success.

He has never had to learn tactical styles, he plays to a formula that wins some and loses some but in a way that means the players can at least pass a ball but relies on the youngsters having enough already in their locker to play the position that they do, it merely prepares them for playing in a team but necessitates no need to over coach them with tactics which is why many youngsters struggle when they come to lower league clubs, they dont have the footballing intelligence to take on tactics and the pressure of needing to get results as its all new to them.

I don't think its a coincidence that Garner is getting rid of most of the old guard as they can see we need results at the expense of pretty football, Grant wanted to win the ball at all costs, Garner didn't want that, he wanted a player who could pass a ball and maybe win a couple of challenges too not just a ball winner, which we can all see is blatantly missing in the team.

Garner has never had to learn how to manage a game, how many times have we been in the lead with 15 mins left and yet he makes what with foresight and hindsight are errors in substitution or doesnt know how to shut up shop. That is something badly needs addressing, being a league manager is 99% about results and not about about playing just an attractive style of football.

At an academy there is no danger that if you lose games then the academy will not suffer long term, in the league if you dont get results the entire club suffers with relegation or worse, the lower down the leagues the harder it is to get decent players, to get decent sponsorship and to attact fans, all of which will have an impact on the club financially, then you can get into the realms of overspending and take out loans and not repay then as Bury learnt and so nearly Power too.

Chesterfield, Notts County, Stockport, Wrexham, Grimsby and Southend were all well established league clubs with a history of plying their trade in much higher leagues but how they have dropped with poor on the pitch performances, its easily done with just one poor managerial appointment, look at us last season with Sheridan for instance, if he was removed in December I still feel we could possibly have survived in L1.

A couple of blatant faults for me have been - why go into a whole campaign essentially with a lone "front man"? yes we have "attackers" players who can play in a variety of positions but not as an actually front man. If Simpson or Davison got injured then we have zero actually striker options on the bench to change/improve us, that IMO is a fault of recruitment Chorley or Garner.

We have probably too many players who are very similar, McKirdy, Barry, Williams, Payne and JML so although all offer something a little different none have enough to change a game dramatically, that is a fault of recruitment Chorley or Garner.

We have a few underperforming players and all players have highs and lows but no single player is ever the reason for poor results, 1 player (for instance Conroy) makes an error then the other 10 players should make up for that by closing ranks and helping.

I have noticed we seem to have no "talkers" on the pitch, helping players out, I lose count of the number of times one of our players gets put under pressure in the middle of the pitch, or in front of our defence and we can all see 2 attackers pressing him yet he seems oblivious to any incoming players, nobody is telling him to get rid of the ball with a short pass, or put it into touch and all too often that player gets punished and often a goal results when often a simple call from a team mate may have made him more aware.

Anyway short term I think Garner needs extra help from an experienced manager to help him in the areas that we are obviously lacking, changing tactics, game management, better use of subs. Obviously he may not think he needs that help or be open to it, like Iffy and Big Ron a few years back but if a young manager doesn't feel he needs to learn then maybe he isn't cut out to be a manager?

Not just criticise Garner but encourage him to improve in his job in the areas that need it, oh and make him aware that his decisions ultimately have THE biggest bearing on fans/players/finances as the worse the results the less chance we will have of attracting better players, better sponsorship and ultimately more fans.

There are definite similarities between Garner and Williams. It's academy style football that they try to get their teams to play.

Most long balls yesterday were woeful. Simple stuff.

Ying & Yang probably more effective together then either on there own.

As opposed to our short balls? Because if their was some great passes, then I must of dozzed off.

I was disappointed with Egbo. He only took on the fullback once and got that good cross in, but no more for some reason, he moved inside a lot and got crowded out. Admittedly he didn't get much support from behind him, but perhaps he was under orders to play a different kind of game than we saw him perform against Harrogate.

Arent they Spurs forward line? :D

Arent they Spurs forward line? :D

I was disappointed with Egbo. He only took on the fullback once and got that good cross in, but no more for some reason, he moved inside a lot and got crowded out. Admittedly he didn't get much support from behind him, but perhaps he was under orders to play a different kind of game than we saw him perform against Harrogate.

That's Cheech and Chong!🙂

I pointed out Egbo reluctance to try to beat his man during the game.

mind you JML got pelters for trying to do the same v Newport and failing

whatever the reason is, I hope it's not coached because his asset was movement and directness. Maybe Harrogate took to much out of him.

with hindsight maybe Williams should have started. But you can't drop Egbo after Friday!

After the shitshow of last summer we need to give Garner a full pre-season and a chance to try (along with Ben Chorley) to build on this season, however some of the performances- especially at home, have been abysmal.

Its been reminiscent of watching us under Williams- academy/ testimonial football. My biggest concern is the intensity or lack thereof and our lack of match sharpness/fitness.

Personally can't see Garner here long term especially if we start next season like the last few months of this! Hope he proves me wrong.

So someone deserves a chance even if it's generally thought they won't do the business?

So someone deserves a chance even if it's generally thought they won't do the business?

So someone deserves a chance even if it's generally thought they won't do the business?

I'd rather see someone come in alongside him if we stagnate. My biggest irritation this year is we continued to play much the same way in games even when it was obviously not working.

I'd rather see someone come in alongside him if we stagnate. My biggest irritation this year is we continued to play much the same way in games even when it was obviously not working.

Its been said to death but this season was very much a free hit for Garner, his remit from Clem and Co was always to avoid relegation and clearly on that front he's been able to deliver that. Obviously the way the season ended up going and with the standard of players we were able to sign, finishing around 10th does seem a huge disappointment. There were huge positives, our early season away form, run to the third round of the cup, the big wins over Northampton and Walsall did show that we had it in our locker at times. But on the other side of the coin there were far too many turgid displays, mainly at home. Based on what we saw this season it's clear that Garner doesn't (yet) have a huge tactical play book, to his credit he ditched the 5 at the back to the 4 which seemed to provide an upturn in form albeit briefly. Given where we were with 10 games left, it's a huge disappointment that we haven't made a better fist of promotion, especially given the sides in league 1 next season would provide huge crowds consistently at the CG.

Next season it will be interesting to see how ambitious Clem and Rob are, surely the remit has to be for promotion. Its likely to be another rebuild but I think this is good that the Ben's can hopefully build a strong squad of talented players keeping an eye on the loan market - this season's loans, Gilbert aside were a success. Like others, let's give Garner next season and take stock when Nov/December comes. If he can add more tactical nous and intensity into our home performances then I think he'll do well. Clearly the natives are already restless and a poor start to next season isn't going to go down well.

I wasn't aware that Garner had just signed an extension, the way I read it was that he signed a 3 year contract when he came in. I haven't seen anywhere said that he has signed an extension, just confirmation that he is contracted until 2024.

I might be completely wrong and have missed something somewhere though.

You are correct

Not going completely mad then

Has that been confirmed ?.