Thetownend.com

Well, there is f-all else to talk about. Simple enough question, even though the season hasn't finished. Should he stay or should he go.

Found it interesting the club put up a "Brown wants to stay" story yesterday. Nothing wrong in that, and everyone heard it in the post match Saturday anyhow,  just the PR MO recently has been comment once something is definite.

Leaning toward no, although I wouldn't be terribly upset if he gets it. I suspect performances and results are probably not a fair reflection.

Likewise, although I am probably leaning towards a yes as at least he is a known quantity.

The retiring player arguments always sound nice, but for every Glen Hoddle and Ossie Ardiles there is an Iffy Onuora and Chris Sutton.....

I’d keep him, I struggle to see what other realistic options there are, someone like Bellamy would be nice but I can’t see Power ever going down that route. I also agree with what Audrey said the other day about Brown seeing first hand what players we have and where we need to improve. Another manager may want to give them all a clean slate.

I’d also like to see Taylor given another year as player/coach working alongside Brown, so if/when we do get rid he may be ready to step up as I do think he has the potential to become a good manager.

Added a new option

 I'm vacillating on this.  PB's use of Div 2 when he means Div 4, makes him sound like SRK, so on balance that tips me into the no "camp"

I really liked Iffy and thought he didn't have much chance with a dreadful squad at the time. Think he's working for Aidy Boothroyd and the England U21s now.

Can we seriously do better?

At the time of PB's appointment, I said I hoped that the private conversation between Power and him was, see these 10 games as a sort of pre season have a look and then sort a competitive squad for next season.

The fear being, exactly what has happened.  Namely given the central defensive issues, the impact of a hard attritional season, we were realistically unlikely to make the PO's let alone win them.  

This then makes Brown look incompetent, with Hart like stats, viewed from the aim of getting us up  Such a judgement is a bit unfair, but I don't think Power will go with Brown.  

A candidate metioned last time round was Jim Bentley, now although he's still contracted at Morecambe, you's imagine given their sub 1000 gates, he might be open to giving STFC a shot.  

Has shown that he can keep a club in Div 4 on a shoestring, so given a bit more money might be able to keep us top ten next year. Downside he's Scouse, but so is Coleman at Accy.

Yes. PB seems an upgrade on Flitcroft.
Results haven't been great but the 10 games to have a look at the squad should be an advantage when planning for pre-season.

The double handed wave a la Flitcroft is a slight concern though.
Not sure what a body language expert would make of it, but it always looks like someone who is desperate to be acknowledged, bit like a drowning man.

I didn't want him before he was appointed, and yet now I feel like he's been judged a little unfairly. On the balance of things I went with don't care.

Jim Bentley who has been at Morecambe as a player and manager for over 16 years, Liverpool born and bred and has never managed or played outside the north west.... Power would probably like him as in his time managing he has never paid a fee for a player, but he has also made much in the past of not moving to another club in the league for a few more hundred quid or uprooting his family.

Why on gods own earth would he choose to come to Swindon, when undoubtedly there will be a plethora of NW jobs coming up over time and as you keep telling us we are constantly fighting for survival!

Yes.

Changing managers incessantly doesn't make sense unless you can suddenly afford and attract a clearly higher calibre of manager and that's not the case here.

I also buy into the argument that he's seen what he likes, needs to replace etc. so why waste that insight.

I don't personally know the fella, and if he wants to stay close to his roots then fair enough.  But managers have been known to move, for what might be considered a better club....  and Morecambe would be one of those dozen or so  "safety net" clubs, between us and the drop zone, who probably pay lower wages.

Pah, I purposely didn't put a don't care in to avoid the splinter gathering :)

On one hand he can't be judged too harshly - not his players, squad already on slide due to key injuries, always difficult to adapt to a slightly different style, Flitcroft may have done similarly had he stayed.

On the other - results. surely he should be getting more out the squad than Flitcroft did.

Pros: Knows the squad so has a running start at it. Has got Southend up recently. Has got Hull Up a long time ago.

Cons: Terrible overall stats at every club he has been at since Bolton. Win % getting progressively worse
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I'm really not sure.

Forced with a choice I think given his recent Southend success he's probably the man for the job right now for next season.

Obviously we can never form much more than a gut feel. No idea who else is available, no idea how much budget he'll have, etc

It just depends who's available.  If Power could get say Bentley, Garrard or Kewell then I would go with any one of them ahead of Brown.  Brown would be adequate.  Very pleased that Flitcroft is no longer the manager.

Leaning towards no but if he stays get rid of bloody Brian Horton. Brown does have some knowledge now of Div 4

Not sure who would be a good choice but appointing Brown for next season would create zilch enthusiasm for me.
Powers 5 year plan hasn't worked.
Where the fuck do we go from here?

I voted Keep/Yes. I wouldn't be against another option though but it would have to be better and fairly realistic. Unless Power is going to go "All In" again but that is pretty unlikely. I banged on about us getting Uwe Rosler ands I would still welcome that kind of appointment. His win average is around 42% (Leeds doesn't really count as they've had more managers than a whores knickers have been pulled down in recent years. Similarly his time at Molde can be discounted as it's too small a model, even if 70%+).

Would Rosler want the job? Would he operate under constraints? There's an argument for that but there's also the argument that a good manager does enjoy a challenge. Sometimes that can be going into a role where the company is in the doldrums and you arrest that slide. Many managers thrive on that kind of pressure. Plus, if you do pull the company out of the shit, it not only looks great but you gain massive respect for not just sitting in a comfortable role having to do nothing. It's easy of course to choose an easy option but lets not rush to think every manager finds that satisfying or is achieving something. Often those things end in stagnation and end sour.

I'd be happy for Brown to stay. I think he has a good combination of passion, ability, technical nous and a little bit crackers to do well with us, even possibly build something here. He reminds me of a perma-tanned Ian Holloway, except he's from the North and has hair. Probably not quite as nuts...Totally different...  :pint:

Meh,

Not his squad and we’ve had injuries to key players, particularly defenders...but...results have been garbage.

On one hand I’d lean towards not judging him till he’s got his own players in...but...again, if PB is going to be a good enough manager to get us out of this cesspit - then he should be able to get better results than he has from our collection of atrocious players. Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t expecting him to suddenly have winning every week but I expected at least a minimal new manager ‘bounce’

Well he did win his first game in charge and he did stop us from losing many games (albeit they became draws, something we'd really not done under DF). So maybe that was the slight manager bounce?...With that being said and arguing in Brown's defence, with regard to many in the squad, there could definitely be an element of 'you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.'

Some on here thought that our players were just being held back by Flitters, firstly Matt Taylor and then PB were going to "remove the shackles" et voila sunlit uplands. Now they think the players are all shit  :)

I think we have a few decent core players that are worth their salt, so to speak and with a full pre season they'll have what it takes (whatever that might be) with  some fresh faces and desire, maybe some untapped talent as well, to help get us out the league. PB definitely saw a slight improvement in Dunne. Maybe that's a coincidence but under DF I couldn't understand why he managed to get in our team. Maybe PB's managerial tweaking of teaching players to move a few yards into position was taken on and absorbed by Dunne? He did improve...obviously he's still a limited player but even I would say he could be a useful squad player but probably not a regular first teamer. Maybe some just didn't want to play under DF, and some may not want to play under PB? That's management for you and I won't quote the famous Brian Clough line, again.

Makes sense to give him a go.  Wasn't sold on him, saw he was trying to make a change for the better, not sure if it will work.  Ideally I'd have gone for someone showing improvement in the lower leagues back in December.

Yes. Just because no means more uncertainty. Last thing we need is an age long wait to find a manager going into next season. There's no room for error in this league. Wrong choice and we could be staring in to the abyss that is the Vanarama conference.

Yes.
He knows what he is up against
He’d have a head start on anyone else
He is likely to know who he’d like here next season
He knows who is a dud
Should have contacts on many levels
Where are we going to get a manager with PL-div 2 experience from at our level
Against all odds, he wants it.....

He needs to be judged on results once he has had the chance to bring in his own players and playing style.

I'd love to think we could find a player manager but I fear those days are over. In fact Hoddle said this himself when asked last Friday.

There seems to be a lot of debate of whether you can judge Brown on the few games that he has been in charge.
(I personally feel that he could and should have done much better).
Not his team, not enough time  etc

Contrary to that Flitcroft has been blamed by all and sundry for the demise of Mansfield by changing tactics and team selection.

Double standards seem to apply here.

Mansfield's record since Flitters left is exactly the same as ours.... clearly it's his fault for both.  A failure to motivate Evans' players and the failure of Brown to motivate ours.

My concern with Brown is our forrn is now one of the worst in the div. Not that Flipflop would have been any better. Here's my doubt, is PB another Danny Williams, in that he's had his day in the sun and now its gone? We must get this right or next year could be a weeping into our hands season.

Danny Williams is arguably our greatest ever manager... if PB is as good as him I for one would be content.

Danny Wilson not Danny Williams?

But Mansfield form was decent and they was looking likely for a play off spot - whereas us it's been patchy and was very patchy when Flits left

To be fair to Brown though, Flits "doing one" did coincide with our most influential defender at the time being ruled out for the rest of the season.

Let's face it, Brown was left with an absolute turd to polish.  I fully believe that if we had had Conroy and Preston fit for the season we would have at least finished in a play off spot.  The flip side being, had those 2 been fit, Flitters might still be here..

Flitters bottled it once Preston was fucked and he knew Mansfield were interested..

Totally agree. Though if Conroy had been fit we wouldn't have bought Preston I suppose.

No way should Brown be given the job.

One win in eight so far is pathetic, regardless of defensive players missing.

You expect some reaction from a new managers appointment, we have had nothing. Richards who was scoring for fun before his arrival has had his worst games under Brown. Clearly our most talented midfield player - Elsnik - has been left out of the team and we have played hacks who can barely control the ball. Taylor gets in the team at left back, but he doesn't warrant selection regardless of position as Brown has said. About the only player who has looked better under Brown is Knoyle.

All this bullshit Brown talks is the same as Flitcroft. The game is about more than passion and desire and commitment. Flitcroft comes in and criticizes the players he inherits for lacking those traits and replaces the entire squad (except Norris for some inexplicable reason). He then bangs on about his recruitment process and these player interviews to make sure they have the right character. He fucks off and Brown comes in and says they all lack the same things Flitcroft brought them in for. Its bullshit, its up there with the promise to make the team fitter each new manager gives. How about a manager who stands for more than hard work and attitude?

When he was appointed i asked the question what does he have to do to get the job/not get the job. Playoffs and he would have the job, regardless of if we went up or not. Missing playoffs despite positive results, then maybe the benefit of the doubt is given to him, given early season form, but coming in and winning 1 in 8 and losing/drawing with some proper shit is just not acceptable. How much worse could he have actually done?

Couple the pure on the field performance, with the fact that season ticket sales are obviously down and there is little to be excited about for next season, how does appointing Brown help? He doesn't energize the fan base in anyway.

As many have said here before, i believe the best option is the recently retired top flight player with great connections for young talent and a good knowledge of the game to come in and excite the fans and club.

But a top flight player in as manager would demand an above average budget to work with. He wouldn’t want his ‘brand’  to get tarnished with a shitty first managerial spell.

The sort of first timer we could reasonably expect would be a Matt Taylor type - ex top flight, now plying his trade in the nether regions.

That's quite some accusation :)

Yeah, could have put it better!

Good point

How do we know that a top flight manager would demand an above average budget? Di Canio is the obvious example but the others? Hoddle didnt have above average for the league, nor did Wise more recently. McMahon maybe did, Macari certainly didn't.

We are said to have an above average budget for the division, so not sure why it would matter anyway.

We were told we had a competitive budgie, but not one of the big hitters.  So in other words spending the most of the season there or thereabouts what you'd expect.

Fellas like Wise and Poyet don't just work for beans... Diamond Mike was probably paying them money we didn't have.

Power has shown no sign of pushing the boat out to get a "name" I doubt he's going to start now, especially as he's stated his exit relies on getting the ground.

Keith Curle is leaving Carlisle for pastures new. Bristolian  :hmmm:

Wise and Poyet was to be funded from Bill Power's investments - it went a bit wrong.

Not sure if any recent "top flight" ex-player (by that I presume Premiership) has the need anymore to become a manager as the money they have probably been on over the last few seasons negates any need to stay in the game especially with a fourth division side like us and all the hassle that goes with the position.

Probably the only chance we have of winning anything in the next 5 years is with our competitive budgie.... 😊


In answer to the thread title I have to say that even after 10 pints it would have to be a no from me, orange fake tans just don't do it for me.... 😉

I very much doubt the money would be the only motivation. I expect some have ambition as well.

I do wonder though if Power was interested in appointing Brown would he have not started negotiations by now knowing the season is effectively over ?
Allowing Brown to have a say on the retained list and a head start on reshaping things on and off the pitch as he may want for e.g. a sports scientist and new physio so needs time to recruit etc.

On the flip side Power could be sounding out others or taking soundings from other's in the game about which way to turn as theoretically he has not appointed a decent manager since the fall out with Cooper.

I hope he makes that decision soon instead of leaving it as long as he did with Flitcroft
 but time will tell.

How do you know he hasn't?

From Brown's recent comments it does not sound that way

This all strikes me as the foundations of Brown’s pending appointment.

Yes I’d have assumed that, if Brown was going to go, he’d already have gone, with someone like McLoughlin taking the final games.

I know we're not going to get anyone better than PB but results don't lie and our form is now bottom 2 since he took over. Not much he could do about the squad but we are worse now than when Flipflop left. Hobsons choice.

The thing is you’ll never know what our results would have been have flipflop not flippedoff.

Your right we can't know whether it would have been bettter,worse or the same if Flipflop hadn't flippedoff.Which means we can only judge the results on PB's time in charge,which as been relegation fodder. It must have our chairman creaming his pants, he loves a good relegation. Remind me again how long has he been at the club and where are we with regards to the 5 year plan?

Remind me again how long has he been at the club and where are we with regards to the 5 year plan?

Based on the fact we have not had a specific one to one conversation, I cannot remind you. Maybe you should be venting your spleen to the grand fromage himself, rather than a fellow supporter with 45 years of suffering at the same club under his belt.

You have to distance yourself from the Power spin in as much as his five year plan is to make as much money as he can from our club. Then the next five years a repeat of the previous five etc, etc. If it looks like a barra boy, sands like a barra boy, acts like a barra boy then what conclusions can you draw?

Here is a clue to the next five years, look back at the last five. To put that into a greater historical light when I started to follow Swindon we were in the third division. Dave Mackay had dismantled the league cup team, the club were in debt, sold back the ground to the council, eventually sold off the Shrivenham Road training ground. 45 years later, where are we? Yes, that’s right pretty much where I started. Third spell in division four a fleeting spell in division two and a blink of an eye in division one.

Which brings me into the fag end of this season and the hope springs eternal thoughts for next season. Back in August most on here thought Flipflop was a decent appointment. On a way form we should have been promoted befor Easter, sadly at home we should have been relegated before Easter. The mean average is mid table mediocrity which is where we will sort of finish.

The one decent thing to come from Flipflop going is that Matt Taylor did not start any fledgling managers career on the back of being slaughtered every week till May. I doubt any manager at our level would have gotten us over the line into the P.O. Even so could you realistically seen us going to Wembley? I couldn’t let alone win promotion.

I realise your reply contains an element of sarcasm and I clearly understand that, you just have to hope like all of us that between now and August Power gets it right. It is his money after all, though it is our club, it will still be after he has gone. If you don’t like it don’t go, simple really as previously stated we gave up out three ST after PNE. Nothing I have seen since would make me do it again (we don’t have the time at the present to follow home and away sadly, given time we will but not near term) which is sad. It would be excruciating to be away from SN1 while we are on a decent roll, but we’re not.

So I still believe and listening to Brown after today that he is the person to do a job as there are clearly many underlying issues at the club, which brings my last word tonight. Flipflop knew he fucked up, big style. I bet he couldn’t thank enough deities in the heavens for his good fortune to fuck off up north. Fire frying pan springs to mind, he left a rudderless ship heading for the sirens and the jagged rocks, so if captain Flipflop didn’t think we were going up what chance Brown or Taylor or any out of contract manager?

Enjoy your weekend, it’s only football.

‘Enjoy your weekend, it’s only football’

How apt this phrase is these days!

The club have never owned the CG, or the A ground. We've always been skint.

Based on the fact we have not had a specific one to one conversation, I cannot remind you. Maybe you should be venting your spleen to the grand fromage himself, rather than a fellow supporter with 45 years of suffering at the same club under his belt.

Yep maybe I should be venting my spleen at the grand Fromage. When it comes to suffering I've put in a shift almost as long as yours. I've had joy beyond belief but so much more sadness, to the point where I sometimes wounder why I bover. The  reason I do is most likely the same as many town supporters, my father bothered. He bothered to take me for years through thick and thin,even when we didn't have much money,for that reason I'm forever cursed with being a town fan. Going back to Brown I don't think he can get anymore from this squad but if he stays can he build and motivate a better one? Where's the funding coming from and who's going to want to join us. If there's a wholesale change at the club we may stand a chance of moving upwards again but at the moment we can only look down.

Indeed, when one looks at the world as a whole, it is only football.

This is going to get like a Derek & Clive sketch if we’re not careful 😉 You are lucky, my father never bothered, promised but never delivered, so like most of my life i’ve Gone and done it myself. You should know better then if you have suffered as I have....

I agree in as much as Brown cannot get to much from this crop of players as a whole, however, i’m certain you realise like me and others that of the current squad loanees are unlikely to return, contracted players can be retained or offered for sale or loaned out. My hope is that there is a nucleus that can be built around. One better than the start of this season, whereby we have some kind of a springboard to launch next seasons campaign with rather than a scratch side with strangers. Money? Well again email the barra boy and ask or do as I am, wait and see. Exciting isn’t it? Just like Christmas as a kid when you got one thing and a stocking with an orange, nuts and lump of coal. Brings a tear to a glass eye eh?

I'd rather it brought a tear to my glass eye than my Japs eye!

  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

"And all the world is football-shaped. It's just for me to kick in space"

Andy Partridge

Rumour has it that Brown has bought a house in Tetbury.

FGR then.  Perhaps Cooper back to us  :hmmm:

Haha. Could you imagine it?

First Mansfield take Flitcroft and then we lose Phil Brown to Forest Green.

...and yet, it doesn't strike me and the most ridiculous suggestion.

"Golden Brown, he's heading west."
- The Stranglers

Jet Black lives in Tetbury....  :hmmm:

And a static caravan in Seaham.

So let me get this straight. I might not have to worry about PB and the terrible form we've shown with him incharge of our sh1te squad, which isn't his fault, because he's going to FGM rovers! to replace Cooper man who may or may not be coming back to put all his effort into trying to get us relegated next season?

Nope. He's joining jet black in the stranglers. Keep up.

Brown's dream job at Sunderland now vacant.

My dream job of becoming Home Secretary is vacant. I fear I may be overlooked.

What sort of maniac would want to be home secretary? Hardest job in UK politics.

We're playing a development game today. The team: Henry; Purkiss (C), Romanski, Giamattei, Spalding; Linganzi, Smith; McDermott, Young, Mullin; Woolery.

SUBS - Matthews, Rejek, Haines, Edwards, Pryce.

A few first teamers (and Tom Smith) being checked out there by the looks of it. Another indicator that Brown's preparing for his time here next season?

My thought too.

Oh, 2-1 - Mullin and McD

I would say it's just Brown doing his job... picked fellas who didn't get a game on Sat, and Woolery who is coming back from injury.  When you have a job, that's what you do, until such time as you don't.

Maybe Power is hanging on, to see if Phil equals our longest ever run without a win in Div 4 of 9 games.  It was 7 games into that that did for John Trollope as boss.  The advantage for Power being that Phil will know he's lucky to get it, which could be reflected in his salary. My feeling is that Power will look elsewhere, probably internally.

Maybe Reg, just thought it was an unusually strong lineup. Still not bothered if he stays/goes, much like I was with Flitcroft.

6-1 at the moment. Mullin again, Young, Woolery and Pryce

Brown did say he was looking at Smith as to next season

8-2 Pryce and Woolery (again and again)


http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/16190940.Brown_gets_to_work_on_Town_players__39__futures/


I'm sure I read something else about him looking at Smith in a Bath game too?

Would make sense to see how things lie with Smith, what with him apparently being the new Iniesta....  ;)

Ginger ninja of football.

He's better than that, he's the new Miles Storey!!!

Especially more so when your the fall guy/woman for the previous incumbent...

Even so, I still say give Brown a chance..

As Home Sec?

I'm hearing the sticking point in whether Brown stays or goers may well be the salary the Scummer Horton wants. 

I suppose the colour of Brown will give as many palpitations to the gammon presently sweating that the Home Sec is a Muslim....

Absolutely..  He can't do any worse can he?

 Heard today that Gary Waddock may be in the frame!

Fucking hell an ex scummers boss, Chalkies will explode...  :D

Looking at his record, seems to do fairly shit unless he is at Aldershot Town.

He would be cheap.... knows how to operate on a Conference class budget.  Wouldn't be a surprise.

The Nicky Ajose of managers!

Wasn't that a Beatles song ?.

Might as well change our name to scumbag rejects. It's not that fucking difficult to keep us a scum free zone.

He was a Swindon player before he managed Oxford mind, agent Waddock.

Ticks all the right boxes. LP will be looking at where he wants the club and how much players from the non League cost. Bam! sounds like our man. cheap, cheap, cheap.

So we have now gone from a half decent budget to an apparently conference level budget in one season despite not being relegated, Power flip flops all over the place.....

Has Power actually said any of this?

I assume that was sarcasm in response to:


Power isn't the type to publicly set expectations at conference budget, even if it happens.

You assume correctly!  :D

You're starting to get it....

I think Power has actually said that we had something like a top 10 budget last season, and a budget near the top this. I know it's just 'what he says' and that we can't necessarily believe that, but at no point has he said anything about a conference level budget. That's just people like Reg et al adding their own negative spin to it because, you know, that's what they do. If he did say such a thing, though, then that statement would conveniently be one of the statements we can believe. Although, of course, we can't trust what he says, except for when he says things that suit one's personal narrative. It's akin to Christians and their cherry-picking of the bible

Operating within our means in this league could well mean having the largest budget, or thereabouts. We are simply a big team for this league, although, budget tables are likely to be skewed by some clubs spending more than they generate. Now, unlike some certain others, I won't pretend to actually know the innermost workings of the club and Power's thoughts, so I won't claim to know either way where the budget really is. Unless those making claims of such a low budget can provide a shred of supporting evidence for their claim, however, then I'm inclined to lean toward them being full of shit.

Oh, and I know things ain't exactly great and, but that does not necessarily support claims of the budget being so low. As evidenced by the 2010-2011 season.

I eagerly look forward to my post being 'countered' with yet more unsubstantiated claims, logical fallacies and hyperbole.

  It's not so much about the raw figures, but rather the efficacy of the spend.

  Here's an interesting article about Chesterfield by David Conn.

  https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/02/chesterfield-relegation-from-football-league

 The feel is that PB, is a bit too high profile for us atm, probably unable to work effectively with the grade of player we have at our disposal and likely to attract next season.  With that in mind a Waddock class manager may well be a much better fit, if we are to avoid a Chesterfield fate.

I actually agree, Reg. But I'm not one that keeps on claiming we have a conference level budget holding us back.

Can we assume that our budget next year is likely to be lower than this, on the basis that we are probably projecting lower income? Whoever of Cov, Mansfield and Lincoln doesn't go up will probably have more to spend than us, plus MK and one or two of the other L1 clubs making the drop. Even so, you'd think that we'd still be in the top five or so, unless someone somewhere is spunking the cash.

From memory, I think Power said our break-even point was around 6k in attendances, so there might be a bit of downward tweaking if they continue to fall. I noticed in a recent interview that Brown said something about 'getting the crowds back'.

While 6k attendances are very poor for us, of course, they are still quite high for this league relatively speaking.

What I'm saying is that I can see why Power would appoint Waddock over Brown, in that he's used to working with a limited budget, whereras Phil by the looks of his Sarfend signings like Coxy, and the eye waterering agent spend isn't.

The great thing about Div 4 is that it is a reasonably  level playing field.  OK, there's a few quid differnce here and there, but as Accy winning the league with apparently the lowest budget and Spireites Conference bound with the 6th highest shows, it's down to getting it right on the pitch and a bit of luck.

Flitters looked to be doing that up to a point, but now we're back in uncertain territiory.... Power has to get this right.

This is totally indisputable, Orient showed this last season as well as Chesterfield this year.

I would dispute this, PB is "possibly" managing below where he sees himself but to say the "grade of player at his disposal" is wrong.

I think PB cannot polish a turd as most of our players currently are, If PB does indeed accept the job he must be judged by the quality of his own signings not those left to him by the previous incompetent incumbant.

Although if PB goes I will not be too bothered I do think that if he stays he will sort us out, we are (more often) harder to beat than under Flipflop but alas we are also less freely scoring than under him too.

With about 5 new signings I feel we will be more than competitive in this league under his management.

How often have we said that we really should have won a game but one silly mistake by a defender/midfielder/goalkeeper has cost us a win/draw. The standard of the league has been at times woefull and it wouldn't take much to turn an average/poor side into a a decent team. IMO of course.

It may be fair to say that Flitters' players aren't Brown players.... but seeing as how a fair number are contracted for next season and maybe difficult to move on, if he can't work with them and improve them then it's a recipe for trouble.  Much better to to get in someone like a Waddock who is probably a bit more pragmatic.

Think we were 2 x defenders (or less injured ones) and a striker away from a stab at the autos.

But we've a lot of players whose futures haven't been tied up yet, Taylor and Preston being biggies, Knoyle an unknown. Plus the midfield is in obvious need of repair when the loans go back. Could buy Banks, he's been pretty inconsistent though.
Plus Richards (and Taylor) are getting on.
Plus see JSW for Conroy and Preston injuries..
Plus 'the uncommitted'
Plus...

Could be anywhere from 5 to 10 new players at this rate! Should know soon enough.

If someone came in and cleared out every single player, I wouldn't give much of a shit. There's not one player I'd shed a tear over. It wouldn't be like when Calderwood or McHale went, for example.
Waddock would be a typical Power appointment, grateful for the job and cheap. Brown would be an atypical appointment.

Yes Batch and Chalkies, I agree with both those comments pretty much totally.

We are not THAT far from a play off or even better team but also if all the players left I wouldn't really care that much.

I just hope, and I personally don't think, that it is sorted sooner rather than later so we can shift on the many "dead wood" players and get in some that will work.

50% of managers appointed by power wouldn’t fit that definition of a typical power appointment

Agreed!

Powers previous MO is lastminute.com . Surely with the transfer window closing earlier he'll act quickly this time.

But if Brown can't motivate them what makes you think Waddock could ?. A good clear out is needed but once again we seem to be stuck with players drawing good wages who either don't want to play for this club or simply aren't good enough.  If we were paying performance related wages, based on this season,  most players would end up paying the club.

For whatever reason we seem to have had a problem with unmotivated players for a bloody long time...

I am going to say any rumours linking us with Waddock are bullshit fabrications of somebodys over active imagination and totally made up.

Yes Power may be impressed with some managers "portfolios" who have applied in the past, as GW is said to have, but as Horlock says he has only ever done it when managing Aldershot.

If PB is interested in the job and Power knows what he can do then surely thats a far better option than getting in someone who has been a serial underachiever throughout his managerial career when he has managed higher than Conference (and lower L2) level.

His record at QPR, Wycombe and Poxfraud was pretty awful, including several (4 I think) relegations and only 2 promotions.

If Power was going to appoint from a league lower then I feel he would go with somebody who has not managed at league level such as Luke Garrard and not someone who has managed in the league and failed numerous times.

Since PdC left I would think.

I don't think many people have criticised the players for lack of effort this season... lack of quality perhaps.  But that's what you'd expect in Div 4.  There's no magic wand here, players like Woolery and Anderson, if replaced given our circumstances will likely be just another Woolery and Anderson.  What is needed is a gaffer who can get them playing to their abilities within a suitable team framework.

A classic example would be to go back to our previous low finish in Div 4 in 83/84. In that side you had Dave Hockaday and Leigh Barnard, now if around today both of these would be up for knacker's yard, in the eyes of some of our fans, having been part of a side finishing 17th in Div 4.  But no, Macari saw what they could do, harnessed that and we rose up to Div 2, both played around 300 games for us.

It was only a matter of weeks ago that many claimed that once Flitters' "shackles" were removed the players would show their previously suppressed quality.... the same people now think they're shit and need being rid of.

On the subject of fine margins and much-of-muchness in Division 4, I saw a comment by Bryan Wade in a twitter exchange the other week about how Macari's extreme fitness regime made all the difference in our 83-84 promotion year, and he didn't understand why clubs didn't focus on extreme fitness now. It wasn't just about being physically fit - it was about how Macari's obsession with good habits (including spying on them on nights out) made the players focus every day on improving, which in turn built a winning mindset.

Could a return to an extreme fitness regime pay dividends again, or has a general improvement in training methods meant that a club at this level can't stand out from the pack on fitness any more? Or would modern players not put up with that degree of managerial interference in their lives?

Looking at Preston's position now and how they have kicked on since promotion, it does make you wonder what would have happened if we had made it...

This is something I have been banging on about for a while now, a fit side lacking in quality can grind out results due purely down to fitness, scoring goals when the opponents tire. Under Macari in the championship winning side of 85-86 we must have scored a high percentage in the last 20 mins of games due to our high level of fitness.

Macari is my all time hero because of how he gained success with that team.........but the amount of people that still used to moan about the style of play!

At the basement level, most clubs have fairly similar squads - in terms of quality, or lack thereof.

The difference is the manager.

But surely fitness is a more exact science than running round and round an army assault course these days.

You'd think that any professional fitness coach would monitor pretty much everything, diet, weight, peak recovery strategy, miles run in a half... Once you have that I think its like RF said, the firness gaps between two professional teams are small.

Except...

Take Luke Williams team. Didn't he say he was a piss around with the ball in training type - not a flog them running type. Certainly looked like it on the pitch too, blowing out their arses last 15.

So maybe there is variance in fitness after all....

Oh circular hell.

But we do the fitness stuff don't we - seen pictures of the players wearing those sports bra's in training which collect all the data?

Collecting data is one thing. Analysing it correctly and acting on it (and how you choose to act on it) quite another

Yeah but.

How many Div 4 type managers are going to have the ability, charisma or respect to unite a squad with a common purpose by significantly increased fitness demands?

There'll soon be factions and key players demurring.

The exceptions were Di Canio and Macari.

I think this is the point Bryan Wade was making. The emphasis on physical fitness was just part of their method of keeping the players constantly focused on a winning mindset.

Interview with Simon Cox.  Things seem to have improved at Southend since Brown departed.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11355154/simon-cox-reflects-on-the-most-difficult-season-of-his-career

But Cox seems to have liked PB.

Di Canio wasn't an exception, he ruled by divide and rule, factions and "the bomb squad" were a core part of his methodology.

Indeed, under Macari the players respected and wanted to improve for the good of the team, but with PdC the players were scared of him and wanted to improve so they were not singled out for scapegoating.

The difference in fitness between now and 30 years ago, is emphasised by 3 subs.  If you're a donkey Div 4 centre half now, like a Preston, Lancashire, the opposition can bring on a couple of pacy lads for the last 20 and that causes you a problem.... not something CC and David Cole faced in 85/86. Or they might bring in a couple of bodies to try and flood the midfield etc. You have to counter it.   A lot of this stuff is about perception... the fitness thing now is players expect a level of facilities at training grounds and support staff etc we've slipped miles behind the norm.   

Another thing which has been a damaging theme this season is lack of numbers on the bench.... I think we had 3/4 at Grimsby for example, the players notice these things. If you can't counter the opposition's substitutions it makes it difficult.

Sometimes it is just a luck blend of the right person with the right method at the riht time with the right players.  Macari didn't pull up trees after us.  Ardiles has little sprints of success but was often exposed.

Listening to a sports psychologist type guy once was interesting.  He was very certain that the key to most professional sportsmen was in the head, but it was not an exact science.  The key is unlocking the potential of the individual - every day.  Any moments of doubt that creep in can undermine weeks of work with them.  he worked with Darren Clarke, who was top ten before dropping to below 150 in the PGA rankings or something, then they worked together and he won a Major.  He said he did nothing to improve his ability, but that Clarke had lost "focus" even if he didn't realise it himself.

This is why in football, players can be in a top Academy one week and playing non-league the next.  They can also go the other way, but it is much rarer.  You'd think if they were that shit, the original top club would have known sooner, but the difference in them and world beater is usually their ability to maintain the right degree of focus.  To train like every day is a new start.  Just look at Chelsea recently - how can a team break the league points record and then turn to jelly?  All in the noggin.  Players at our level can't make it through a game without switching off.  It's precisely what makes a good and bad keeper, the ability to remain 100% focused for every second of a game.

Good Managers tend to keep things simple for the players, so there is less to focus on.  Make it muscle memory, engrain a way of playing they can easily remember.  That is why Macaris worked for us - he had a bunch of players who brought into his way - he could probably have let them watch movies all day and been as good (to a degree), so long as they follow.  If they believe in the method, in the Manager, in each other and themselves, they can be the players that top clubs wanted as youngsters.  They need to be 100% in.  Di Canio was a bit different, as PaulD mentions, in that he just shipped players in an out when they began to flake or challenge the method.  Similar to Ferguson (who clearly had the respect to maintain it for longer periods with players) and also someone like Redknapp.  Someone who did do quite well overall as a Manager, largely by shipping players in and out at regular intervals.

I believe Bamber may have been the exception to Macaris motivation

Although I agree with your judgement as I have said many times, its all about the right manager and squad at the right time that just clicks.

What surprised me was that Macari actually got better a while after he left us results wise, he had a 50% win ratio with Birmingham and Stoke City 1st time (162 games) compared to 48.4% (285 games) with Swindon.

LM was well regarded at Stoke especially.

You only need to watch Cardiff, to see how it's done.  Warnock will pretty much guarantee you a promotion.... his template, pack the side with 6 footers, with a couple of little uns who are roadrunners, and play the % ages.

When Cardiff line up a defensive wall, Sean Morrison isn't their biggest player.

You're totally right and the Darren Clarke reference too.

Wasn't it PDC that said something in a post match interview (may have been the Wigan FA Cup win) like "With me the players will probably have less free time in the week, but I always said to my players that you don't have to love me, but follow me. An together we will win."

I know PDC said many things but it does echo your comment above and even if just in theory he is quite correct. When this goes wrong of course is when the players do not follow instruction.

The Leon Clarke "fuck that" approach to too much running in training hasn't done him too much harm in his post STFC career.

Maybe so, not all are so lucky. Also you could say Leo Clarke was already an established pro, having played most of his career in the Championship before joining us. Loans aside. He's now still in the Championship.

Yeah, one that got away and still wearing his kit.
I wonder sometimes what would have happened had he managed to survive PDC.
A KMac proof position at the top of the league?

The rumour mill is rumbling. Just don't know about who, or what, yet.

Has Waddock gone already  :hmmm:

http://www.shotsweb.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47500&sid=c99b9cb629a95401efd76cc030ca6a40

Matt Ritchie alone would have fulfilled that role.

I don't recall many occasions when a side was wanting for either fitness or organisation under PDC even if his man management led to additional expense.  Matt Ritchie's qualities were all his own but he did what he was told and visibly grew as a player under PDC.

I don't see there being many managers available at our level who would have the authority or personality (good or bad) to drive an STFC squad to be markedly fitter than other League 2 sides.

It just so happens that long time Stanley servant, John Coleman, has been such a man but he had barely penetrated my consciousness until very recently.

Town manager by the end of tomorrow then...

Right then, apologies if this has already been asked. As Saturday is the last game and we cannot get in the PO’s, how long ought we give Power to decide he wants Brown or not or for Brown to decide he wants the job or not? If they both decide they love each other and our club enough it shouldn’t take to ong surely? Days, weeks, hopefully not months like last year.

I'd hope that a decision on PB, one way or another, would be sorted within days, so by the end of next week at the latest.

I'd expect Brown and the out of contract players to know Monday morning.

I don't see why the decision has not already been made, Brown has made it clear he wants to stay (probably depending wages & budget) why are they not already talking, does that mean that Power is not wanting Brown so letting his 10 games expire before waving bye bye, Brown has said in his interviews it has not been discussed assuming he has not spoken to Power.

Let's see what rumour mill can say, you'd guess it's manager related...

Not sure how 'we' can give them time or not, as its the close season its not as if fans can withhold support or anything like that, the club makes feck all from the fans in the summer so there is no bargaining chip, Power can take as long as he see's fit I suppose, its not as if he has to roll up at the CG each fortnight and get shouted at by the fans between May and August.


Do we know they haven't decided or in fact that talks haven't been held, for all we know Brown could have signed on the dotted line or alternatively Power is waiting to the end of the season to unveil Pardew.

He just said Matt Taylor is the Mo Salah of League 2 👀

Tbf, he doesn't do that between August and May either
We can always dream ...

Sounds unlikely sadly.   I'm starting to get a bad feeling about this.... clearly it isn't Brown.

totally random question but did we ever find out what happened to Jeremy Newton in the end?

Great positive thinking as always...

Yep. I'd have been happy with Waddock.  But then again I was one of the few who thought Flitcroft was OK.

What's suddenly changed that's got everyone thinking that Brown's out of the picture?

Boredom largely

Nothing. And for 'everyone', see 'the usual suspects that always run with their own unfounded conclusions'

I don't think it's a sudden change, but rather a hunch based on the available, or lack thereof, evidence.

It's what football fans do.... all part of the fun.

Absolutely, no point in a football forum if you can't bollocks about football.

Ah yes, I forgot this was "fun". You and your constant japes Reggie.

Ah well, we should find out by Wednesday. Brown and Power have a meeting Tuesday.

I honestly can't think of any reason why he will not be given the job full time - unless Power already has a replacement lined up.

1 win in 9? I know it's not his team and all that, but still, it's not that hard to think of a reason.

Wages, length of contact, next season's budget...

Lots of reasons

I had been in favour of writing off the end of the season and giving Brown a chance, but his recent press releases where he basically is shifting blame from him to the players and pretty much publically slagging off players etc has left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm now thinking it may be time for a fresh start, new manager, new players new beginning.

Great Western Reds can then use that banner again.

For that reason alone we should change manager at least as often as Leeds do

Its a great banner to be fair.

See, I'm thinking he's right and half this squad are bottling fucktrumpets who are just picking up a wage without giving a toss. He went up in my estimation for saying what I've been thinking for months.

I hear what you are saying, but is it professional airing it in public? Not sure if there is much to gain from it to be honest?

I like it, we’ve missed someone slagging the players off since Andy King.

If you exclude Di Canio and Flitcroft, then yes.

I absolutely see where you are coming from.

I'm not sure whether to interpret it as you have done, or whether its public posturing to let 'people' know that
  1)  to the deadwood/less committed players, making any future life under Brown would both be unpleasant and futile to stay.
  2)  to Power that investment in the squad is needed and is an expectation of any upcoming negotiations*

* obviously picking up the phone and talking to him has probably happened already..

Then again, it might just be Brown's way.
========

All great points batch, and can't really argue with anything that you have said.

All managers have different styles and as you say, it could be the way he operates. Clearly it hasn't worked with this group of players but who is to say it won't with an entirely new group?

Dunno, lets suck it and see I suppose.

And this...

“Ollie Banks won’t play on Saturday. He’s gone back to his parent club. He opened up and said that the players in the dressing room let me down” added Brown.

Well if that is the case then the troubles within must have been deep down and simmering long before Brown took the reigns, which may explain why Flipflop flipped off, he probably saw what we have ended up achieving (fuck all in reality) coming.

I'm still narked off at the way the season  flatlined. Its a bit simplistic to say not good enough. I don't think that's incorrect - couldn't see Flitcroft taking us up - but the spectacular way we surrendered was pathetic. I expected more.

That said, fat boy Evans and Flitcroft also failed/look like failing in their new roles too. Maybe the new manager bounce has a deadline day too.

Some, if not all, of those dreadful performances this season are down to the players. The disparity between stuffing Luton, Mansfield etc and getting turned over by Crawley, Barnet (too many others to mention), doesn’t sit well with me. They couldn’t even been arsed to turn up for Matt Taylor’s one and only game in charge. Lacklustre, bottling n’er-do-wells. whether that was some sort of backlash against Flitcroft’s ‘way’ or just a general attitude problem I don’t know.

But something was obviously not right behind the scenes.

I'd agree, the not turning up for Matt Taylor's game was a huge one, you would have expected some sort of reaction

Yeah, naively I thought the players would come out all guns blazing for that. So disappointed by that one.

Which is what I allused to in a post a short time ago. Sums our season up really.

 So, I'm expecting a decision today.... am I being naive  :hmmm:

I think they have to tell Brown first, stay strong.

or they have to tell the other candidate first to ensure they'll accept the job but those conversations would normally be in a couple of months.

Right, so the consensus seems to be that I can chill and not expect any news until around mid July.  Phew.

I’d imagine any decision will be known soon. If it’s a no I can’t see Brown keeping schtum - plus the fact he’s likely to get another gig fairly easily.

The worry is Power’s usual fannying about when it comes to appointing someone else.

Saying that, giving Brown a 10 game contract surely means Power was looking elsewhere if he didn’t fancy him permanently.

I think it will depends on PB's wages, if Power thinks he is affordable then he will be given the job, if he isn't then I think Taylor will be fast tracked into the job.

I personally think its a season too soon for Taylor as I feel he needs more time coaching before making the jump up to management.

As a preference I would prefer PB as I think he has made us harder to beat than under the man who must not be nicknamed, I do think that with about 4 new signings we will challenge for the title next season, there I have jinxed it!

I alluded to Matt Taylor being hung out to dry by his team mates a few days ago, absolute disgrace. Which is why I suspect he wasn’t given the job. It would have been obvious to power watching from the stands it wasn’t going well and Phil Brown too.

Given the summer to assemble his own squad, Brown should get us up next season. But it could just be another Flitcroft scenario where he'll fuck off at the earliest opportunity. Even if he does well, Brown's always going to be looking higher up the ladder than sticking with us.

I'd really like to get someone in who'll stick around and build a squad for the next two or three seasons, but that just doesn't seem to happen in football any more.

Why do you think that about Brown? I'm not entirely enamored by him, but actually he doesn't really jump from club to club at all.... 5 years at Hull, 6 at Southend?

Hmm, I hadn't realised he was out Southend for so long.

I just sense that he'd feel 'bigger' than our current position and would jump at a better opportunity.

Apparently PB is a trained sparky.

This might appeal to Power if any rewiring jobs are needed at the CG and Phil wants to keep his eye in.
Two jobs for the price of one.  :hmmm:

We all ‘hear’ what you are saying, however, given the way we all are wouldn’t you jump to a better job than you have now? I doubt any gems we find on the pitch are going to hang round either if a big club comes knocking, given our owners penchant for a ‘silly offer’ eh? Then there’s the geezer himself, wouldn’t turn a blind eye to a decent shilling profit from the club once he has seen the maximum return on his investment. Money talks and football is all about money.

That is what being a Town fan does to you. However, as stated PB has been pretty loyal with the clubs he's managed. Derby was his first gig and so was 50/50 if it would work and was a big task regardless. Hull and Southend have been stated (5/6years in management anywhere is good going.) He even managed a season at Preston. 4 clubs in 13 years (5 if you include us, if he doesn't get it it'll be merely a caretaker/interim role so I won't count it yet) is very good and it shows he does like to build his own squad and stick around.

It kind of begs the question if LP gave PB a 5 year contract (on a 1 year review/objectives clause) much like LW, where could PB get us in 5 years? Shades of Hull and a new owner as we progress (LP exiting) gives me stupid dreamlike tendencies. Stop it Bamboo! Stop it now!

Mid table Championship in 5 years anyone soapy tit wank  :pint:

You'd think if it was a flat "no" then that would be released PDQ.
Must be in negotiations then :sherlock:

I'm not going to be suckered in.... mid July is a good 10 or 11 weeks away. Close season it is.

With the cracking sunshine over the weekend, negating the need for a tanning session, I’m taking that as a sign he’s staying.

Have we heard whether PB has got the job yet? or are we searching for yet another manager.

Do you not think someone would have mentioned it if we had?

Maybe, maybe not. Nothing on the advertiser, I just checked so I'll put 2 and 15 together and say he's too expensive and we're looking for a manager who wants to take a step up from non league. Hopefully bringing some unpolished turds with him or her, or whatever gender they want to be today. There hope that helps.

Pretty sure took the OS 3 days to announce Flitcroft had bailed so who knows

I’ll go for an announced presser tomorrow to confirm Brown.

I like your thinking - we should get a female Manageress in!

The positive PR, and ribbing from opposing teams, would be fun.  Sort of the complete opposite of Di Canio.  I'm sure Sky would fall over themselves to make some sort of poor mans effort at a documentary as well.  If we are going to languish in this division for a while, we may as well be trailblazers.  I'm not suggesting Sheena Easton here though, we'd need to take it seriously.

It's Cherie Lunghi, or no one for me.

I can't help bu think her ship has sailed, we should have got in there when her star was rising.

Grace Jones would be perfect, African decent, female, far more scary than PDC. If the players slacked off she'd beat the shite out of them. There we've solved the manager problem, whilst getting tons of free median coverage.

You probably don't realise, but it has been many a long year since the Adver got anything before the TEF.  The days of a Clive King being chummy with the gaffer, and there being next to no other way of finding out anything, are now gone.

Now, you need to read obscure Twitter feeds.... this is where the likes of tans come up trumps.... or is that trumps comes up tans  :hmmm:

Anyway all the Adver's cub journo does now is an OK match day, but probably not as good as PV and a week's spinning out of the BBC radio interview.

Seconded

Its Grace Jones or no one, she even took on 007 now that's hard core.

Thank you I try my best :)

The poor old STFC media team just released the most pointless update.

 :toocool:

Best***"**update******ever***

My favourite bit was that the club ‘hope to announce the outcome in due course’.

Or they could just leave it until the first game of the season and we can see who takes their seat in the dugout.

An update about an announcement, just fucking report it when it happens jeez!

What do people expect them to say? Nothing at all? How long would it then take for people to moan the club is not keeping us informed?

You're damned if you do...

You bunch of fucking philistines......

Nice to see the club respecting one of their most preciously held traditions.... They are holding it back for Statement Friday!

No appreciation of history you lot!

Apparently the players are having a meeting at this moment at the club to find out .... a). If PB has taken the job or not. b). if they have been released or not.

PB met Power in London last night at 7pm to thrash out any possible deal.

If PB is taking the meeting at the CG then he will have the job, if it is handled by Power then he has not taken it, or been offered it.

Brown will need to clear his desk at some point...

PdC did that at midnight.....without the clubs permission...... ;)

Get this shit out of the way so we can concentrate on all those new signings rumours that never materialise

Was the Wembley hooker there?

(https://www.mememaker.net/api/bucket?path=static/img/memes/full/2015/Aug/3/15/i-hear-you-loud-clear.jpg)

Theo Robinson, a dead cert. We have a gentlemans agr....ohh yeah...

Can't we use smoke from the "Power Out!" season tickets? It could turn oompa loompa orange if he's got the job.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZRL5WIB.png)

 :pope:

It’s a case of Tango and Cash.

Who’s Sylvester Stallone and who’s Kurt Russell

Interesting quote from Brown after their meeting yesterday, I may be reading a little more into this than what is there but it seems that the decision may not be just down to Brown and Power.

‘Down to one man’ seems pretty clear.

Unless he’s consulting Tiger Tim!

Henman  :hmmm:

Presumably you mean Tactics Tim....

Was Henman known as Tiger? Termite, maybe!

Yep.  Really used to annoy me, on the annual tennis watch. Henman was an OK player from a privileged background, who seemed bereft of any fighting qualities whatsover. Especially that pathetic little fist pump.

Typical Oxford, flatter to deceive and then bottle it at the end

Strangely Henman used to profess a likng for Oxford, but then morphed into a Fulham fan.

He’s always appeared Seb Coe-ish to me - which is reason enough to loathe the fella.

He’s got that smarmy look Coe has although he falls just short of me wanting to hit him with a shovel.

More to the liking of the sponsors I guess, either that or he was frightened off by a banana

Haha, I'm glad you said that. That is my exact thoughts about Coe. Can't stand the smug fooker!  :pint:

Grace Jones to be announced as our manager tomorrow. A new start and the first ever female manager in the football League. At the end of every home game we win, she's going to sing slave to the rhythm before jumping in the shower with the lads.

Still no news .,  looks like this one could drag on and on and on and on....... :yawn: :yawn:

Heard that the dispute is over fake tan image rights?

In the words of Roger Hargreaves....

(https://s31.postimg.cc/j6b9vbgkr/1200x630bb.png)

The quote is from post-match on Saturday, not after their meeting.

No news is good news?  :hmmm:

No nose is Daniella Westbrook?

No noise is Jade Goody?  (too much?)

The internet cracks me up. Elsewhere I've seen all sorts of comments ranging from this 'delay' meaning it definitely is brown to it definitely is not brown. It's as though the complete lack of information is enough information to know for a fact either way. I've seen some say that brown is/is not staying (delete as applicable) to be the only possible conclusion, despite the fact that others in the same thread have come to a very different (and plausible) conclusion.

And we haven't even come to the transfer season yet, we have all that to look forward to as well.

Look, fuck this, all this speculation about Brown in/out is avoiding the real question here. And that is when OR EVEN IF!!!! the club shop will reopen? And will I be able to buy the Adver there? WHY HAS THERE BEEN NO STATEMENT ABOUT THIS? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?

2 year deal. BBC Wilts

I think most can live with that....

Gives a bit of stability, and suggests some sort of possibility next season..

I am pleased with that.

I put 'Don't care' in the poll but find myself pleased at the news.

Power cannot afford to faff around with recruiting another manager so I'm not outraged/upset/doom and gloom with this news.

Now go and sign Simon Cox who is OOC at Sarfend ;)

Yep, as many others have said, not hugely impressed with PB but would rather PB now than AN Other in some indeterminate time frame.

More likely to get us promoted than relegated. Glad we wont have another summer of APPOINT A MANAGER POWER! Just got the first SIGN SUM PLAYAZ to look forward to now.

Underwhelming but steady is my assessment. Looking forward to seeing how he rebuilds us with defence surely a priority.

Im ok with it..

lets get organised for the coming season early doors...

At least Vigouroux's happy based on his Twitter account.

But Reg was sure this wouldn't happen, budget wasn't big enough for Brown, we'd have to settle for Waddock and a battle to avoid a Chesterfield next season, the evidence was stacked, it was a shoe in.

Happy we have made a decision, still not sold on Brown.  That being said, his goal should be precisely the same, promotion or else.

Me too.  Seems Power has learnt a lesson on long term contracts.  Sure Brown with be able to achieve promotion in two years.  Fingers  crossed.  :please: :please:

Excellent news! Now he can get on with the cull.

Retained/released list must be on its way.

Suppose you can read into the appointment that Power is funding appropriately. Might consider a couple of STs.

Chairman Lee Power told the club's official website: "We had a very good meeting on Tuesday evening and we spent a day going through budgets and personnel for next season, which we finalised today hence the delay in making this announcement.

"One of the key reasons behind appointing Phil on a permanent basis was that I feel the club needs some stability, which he gives us in abundance. We were obviously disappointed not to make the playoffs last season and no one more so than Phil.

"This deal gives Phil an opportunity to put his own stamp on the team and, with his record and experience in management, I think he'll help bring this club success over the next two years."

Awful news.

Once Waddock signed a new deal at Shots, it was clear that Audrey's rumour was unfounded. Up to that point, he seemed like a viable candidate, given PB's Hartesque record, and previous penchant for working with a favourable budget.

You'd like to think that PB has enough about him to keep us up next year, but he'll need to do better in the first 10 than what he's done in the last 10

Start the season with Macclesfield and Cheltenham and he’s in trouble!

Fuck me Reg, your a boring cunt.

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Extrapolate Phil's record from the 10 games over the course of a season and we're down with the dead men.... therefore he will need to do better.

I don't see how that statement is in any way controversial.... but I'm always open to a counter argument if you want to provide one.

He didn't recruit a team to play the way he wants to play.

He didn't have a pre-season to work on the set-up of the team.

His words suggest an unhappy camp by the time he arrived.

The wheels were already coming off - one thing Flitcroft was able to do was have spurts, both good and bad.  The game Taylor took charge of showed we had a big problem looming.

He was down to the 3rd or 4th choice centre back pairing, let alone individuals.

His track record at this level does not suggest we should expect a "Chesterfield" is likely, if he gets the chance to correct all the above.

I'm still not a fan of his though, I might be convinced otherwise in a year.

Well I have to say Im not that bothered with him but Taylor and Vigoroux have expressed happiness about it so thats got to be a good thing.  You feel like Taylor as a captain, maybe Vigs back in goal and a load of new recruitment, well thats all positive and makes me feel the next seasons I might make more than 2 games.  But we'll have to see.

Your statement is accurate in a literal sense.  It's the continual negative extrapolation that is amusing/irritating.

As in "We conceded a goal 2 minutes ago.  Yes we're winning 8-1 but there are still 20 minutes to go so if we continue to concede at this rate then we'll lose this game 11-8 and every future game 45-0".

I'm ok with Brown.  Much more likely to take us up than down from this division.

PB took over just after our second worthwhile CB had been ruled out for the season, with 10 games left to play, and no real option to bring some quality in.  Add to that our best GK had just been shipped out, the squad was totally demoralised, and obviously unhappy with the previous regime.

Anyone basing their opinion of PB for us last season based on the above is being overly harsh IMO.

Likewise.

That was relatively upbeat from Reg, he seems to be suggesting we'll avoid the drop. Project that into real terms and we're champions by Christmas.

I don't think I need to seen as Rob T has pretty much done it for me. As Pax also alluded to while your post maybe correct in a literal sense it blatantly ignores all the factors that contributed to Brown's run here (which Rob summed up quite nicely). The fact that you focus constantly on the negatives & never try to project any balance to your post means you lose credibility with me and presumably a number of others on here. It's almost as if you've spent so much time building up an online persona of yourself that you purposely avoid posting anything that might potentially damage the negative perception that you so proudly do your best to maintain.

I said at the outset that PB shouldn't be judged on this season, given the injuries etc and hoped the private conversation between PB and Power was have a look and see what you can make of next season.  That has sort of happened by the looks of it.

Certainly, having a gaffer in place who has a few weeks available to set up next season is what we needed, further he's had a chance to look at the bulk of what he'll likely have to work with next season, given what we know of existing contracts.

You're  ;) :D

I thought your previous post summed it up perfectly. No more needed to be said... :) 8)

Haha, I shouldn't have bit!!

Schoolboy error :headhurts:

With respect it's nothing to do with personas etc. I deal in facts as far as I can see them, in the subjective world of football.

If you wish to counter my interpretation of fact than feel free...

 :hmmm: Do you have a golden retriever?  :D

May have missed it when he was first appointed but I notice there is no scarf above head picture with this appointment - standards are dropping....

I'm not in the Brown camp but let's be positive about this.

We have a manager in early, he has seen the dross of the squad, he will know what we need, Taylor and Vigs seem happy with this so hopefully both are with us next season which will be a start for us to rebuild.

It's a shit league so hopefully we can get promoted next season.

Let's get behind the manager and the team.

If you were dealing in facts you would have mentioned the facts that Rob alluded to in his post, among the many others, that clearly hamstrung Brown from the time he took over. We'll judge him on his own merit when he has been given sufficient time (with his own squad) to stamp his mark on proceedings. & we'll have to agree to disagree re the persona comment I'm afraid. As I mentioned if you posted just the odd positive comment from time to time it would show that you are maybe, just maybe, looking at things objectively rather than trying to enhance your Victor Meldrew act for the 1 or 2 on here that for some inexplicable reason find it entertaining.

I don't think we've discovered what his favourite cheese is either yet.

He's going to take us down.....

But as been said many times,  this time he'll have his own team,  and whoever it is its got to be better than the shit he inherited from flipflop.

Fortunately we’d still finish above Mansfield, given that Brown mustered more points per game here than your beloved ‘Flitters’ managed there. That’s right, the one who was going to get them automatically promoted.

Brunost

 :D

I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about brown.

But it surely means power has bought into his plan.
It also means we have someone on the player recruitment case immediately.

So I think on balance is good news untill proven otherwise.

Good point... they may struggle next season, it does feel like they're perhaps spending money they don't have.

I've no particular love for Flitters, but largely felt he did an OK job and probably left us better off than what he found us.

The same for any manager.

You know, the squad isn’t that bad individually. It appears the team ethic was a problem. Brown knows by now who needs turfing out, for whatever reason, and Power must have agreed with him. Some must obviously still be contracted, so I presume those that can’t or won’t move on will be sidelined but obviously still paid.

This.

Mainly happier with this appointment than Flitcroft's.

I'm pleased.  And pleased with the timing as well.  He's had time to assess the squad and will now have the summer to rebuild it.  His eyes will be wide open after having seen the final quarter of the season with us, so clearly fancies his chances at making a difference.  Good luck, I say.

Given the statement clearly describes the squad assessment/recruitment angle, logic must surely take you down a road that Power will enable Brown to re-build at least a little, and not the Reg summary of working with what he has while being hogtied and whipped by Sheen Easton.

The new blood will largely be 5 loans.  I suspect Phil wouldn't mind the Sheena option, mind.

In fairness I suppose that, in the eyes of anyone who feared relegation, he did an incredible job.

For the record , we achieved better form over the final 10 games of the season than 9 other L2 teams. So, even if ‘Flitters’ does get his lads applying themselves by a further million or so percent, your ‘interpretation of fact’ might not condemn us to life with the ‘dead men’.

I enjoy Reg's posts, especially his knowledge. That's not to say I agree with all he writes. He's a bit Oracle of Delphi meets Marvin the Paranoid Android.

Keep it up Reg.

He looks like he always has a warm fuzzy feeling.

My concern with Mansfield next season is no more or less than any of the other 22 competitors.

However I can't be the only fan who has noticed our lowest league position for 34 years. At the start of the season I predicted Flitters could achieve a respectable finish, given the circumstances he entered and found at the club.

I think that was largely achieved.

However you choose to dress it up, the background to next season, will be, has our slide bottomed out?  Can PB get us moving in an upward direction? 

As ever, it will be interesting.

I'll give you a counter argument;

Your statement is wrong Reg. Even with PB's 10 game record. We would not have been relegated. Let's take a look;

PB 10 Game record transferred to a 46 game season

P   - W - D - L  - Pts
-----------------------
10 - 2  - 5  - 3 - 11

Transfer to multiplication factor of all fields by 4.6 = to 46 games;

P   - W   - D  -  L      - Pts
-----------------------
46 - 9.2 - 23 - 13.8 - 50.6

Seeing as 9.2 wins and 13.8 losses are not possible, we'll amend and round those fields down and up respectively;

P   - W - D  -  L   - Pts
-----------------------
46 - 9  - 23 - 14 - 50


A team gaining 50pts has entertained the idea of relegation/re-election four times since 3pts per win and twice since abolition of re-election/introduction of defined relegation to the Conference. 4 times in 37 seasons infers it is very rare. Once a decade per se.

Seeing as we're in the present and using the most current data available, being season 2017/18, 50 pts would have seen us finish 18th. Whilst not winning the Wilts/Gloucs/Somerset league (Cheltenham would have received that honour) and not a fantastic final league placing, for the ever optimist like yourself this would still have been a successful avoidance of relegation from the football league.

Of course, this is all a load of rubbish really as I see us bettering our campaign from last season. Two main reasons; Brown is likely to assemble a stronger squad than DF, owing to his experience and contacts in the game. Also while we can't predict injuries, the likelihood of injury in two key positions, down to 4th/5th choice would be pretty unlucky to happen again. I'll be happy to say we can gain automatic promotion with PB at the helm.

That is probably where our differences lie. I set myself up for the fall... :D

Yeah. We wouldn’t go down, we’d just be really really shit

Brown has never built on a shoestring and his comments toward the end of the season and post match on Saturday made it clear he had no intention of starting now, so  I'm working on the assumption that Tuesday's meeting was about him being assured that he would have a decent budget with which to rebuild. For that reason alone and the fact we're not fucking about until July, I see this as a positive.

Yet some will still insist we have a non-league budget.

That's how I see it. Not pro or anti Brown. There to be won over / lost but at least we get cracking now not in September.

Yes but then some people think the earth is flat or that climate change is a negotiable belief rather than a matter of science. Or that Mrs Browns Boys is entertainment. Don't worry about them

So what we know is this. Power has given the gig to PB. To which you’d assume they have agreed to who goes and who stays. The next two points are budget, which in part has been or will be predetermined by the aforementioned current players. The next part is who PB feels he needs to mount what really has to be a serious promotion campaign and can get squeeze their wage demands into this budget of unknown value.

Even at break even, we have one of the biggest budgets in the league. There's no doubt PB would not have taken the job unless we were planning on competing. Again, anything less than play-offs is a failure, as it was this year.

We're one of the bigger clubs in this league with one of the bigger fanbases.  We're punching below our weight and, as you say, anything other than a play off place has to be considered a failure on that basis.

The small ray of hope that I keep focusing on is that even after years of mediocrity (how many other sides have had as little as we have to cheer in recent years?) we still manage regularly to drum up 4 figure away followings at unexciting grounds a couple of hours from Swindon that we've all been to many times before.  The core support is alive & well.

But the core support could really do with something to get excited about next season, Mr Brown.  Speaking as the Dad of two young lads growing up in prime Chelsea/Arsenal territory who have never known a Swindon side to have achieved anything of note, you'd be making my job of keeping them interested a whole lot easier with a promotion push.

I think one (and maybe the only) positive to come out of the last year is the fact Power has really made an effort to become a chairman and nothing more.
The season before last someone like Phil Brown wouldn’t have even thought about coming to Swindon as it was well known the manager didn’t sign the players and allegedly sometimes didn’t even pick the team. Even last summer I think we struggled to attract decent managers because they all believed this to be the case. Infact I still only think Flitcroft took the job because he was as desperate for a job as we were for a manager.

I actually believe Phil Brown wants to be here which is refreshing, I know his record with us so far is poor but I doubt he would be short of offers to move to another club in the next couple of months if he really wanted too. He could have just held on for the summer if he didn’t really want to be at Swindon.

I think Power deserves some credit for the last year or so, he’s spent money on transfer fees, he gave Flitcroft a half decent budget and he’s acted swiftly with regards to appointing a new manager when needed, both mid season and now. He’s also obviously committed to another half decent budget for the following season to keep Brown here.

Strangely, after our lowest finish in years, for the first time in a long time I’m actually looking forward to the season ahead.

I am more impressed with us signing PB as manager than I was when we got in "the man who cannot be nicknamed" last year.

PB has double the managerial experience of DF and managed at a far higher level than DF probably ever will.

Under PB we have become harder to beat, but we also seem to find it a little harder to score than under DF, but if you are strong at the back then you don't lose as many games, good teams are built on strong defences.

Under DF we lost 5 games by 2+ goals, under PB that was one vs Exeter when we were the better side first half too and should have been a couple of goals up at HT.

I know it was an end of season game but we totally outplayed the division champions 3-0 when they played their strongest side and were looking for the win so not taking the game lightly.

With PB being allowed a certain amount of play on the budget, bringing back the clubs (current) best keeper from exile and signing a few players he knows in crucial positions then I think we could do well this coming season.

We drew 8 games, 5 of those under PB, games which could easily have gone our way if it wasn't for a few bits of luck, poor decisions etc (yes I know its the same for most teams) but I feel we are not that far from being a good side, at times under PB we looked far better than 90% of games under DF.

He managed to turn Dunne round from being a really poor L2 player into a handy squad addition who at times (Accrington home and Cambridge away) was probably the best player on the pitch.

Defence and keeper are major areas that need improving as both RCC and Moore have looked major weaknesses in goal (except for Moores last game when he did look solid) if Vigs can come back rejuvenated from his loan spell then that position is sorted.

Then its defence. CB especially so as Knoyle is becoming a very good player at RB, Purkiss is a handy fill in accross defence, Preston and Conroy when they come back hopefully will be vying for CB but we still need a solid LB and more cover at CB.

An attacking midfielder or box to box player similar in style to Elsnik and one more good striker and I think we will have the basis of a promotion chasing team for next season.

I am glad Power got the managerial appointment done early doors so PB can locate his targets and get them signed as soon as they become available.

I agree with all of that.

No you're wrong.  The statement down with the dead men, doesn't say we would be relegated.  That would have been expressed by saying "we would have been relegated"

In this season's sense, down with the dead men, is the likes of Grimsby 51 points, who came to the CG with a couple of games left needing to win and hope other results went their way. Even then their win didn't guarantee FL status.

Personally I'd rather not explore a FL relegation battle, which is why it is imperative that PB improves on his initial record as I stated.

Yeah right, you wouldn’t be able to type out “I told you so” fast enough

Dunno, not easy to type quickly one handed. There'd be a run on Kleenex in the shops near his house though

He's been predicting one for at least the 15 years I've shared a forum with him so give him his credit and let him have his fun!

I'm happy enough with the appointment. Whilst it isn't earth shattering or particularly unexpected it brings a sense of stability and reassurance, especially with it being done nice and early.

The next few months will be full of discussion over which positions need filling. All I'll say for now is that the signing of somebody like Simon Cox and/or one or two others proven at L1 level would go a long way to building some optimism about the year ahead.

Cox would be a curious one.... all the evidence is that players who come back after a long time away, disappoint.

However it seems that if they go for a relatively short time and come back, it can work out.

I believe Brown has been quite clever in making himself the desirable option, despite an atrocious set of results under his tenure so far. He has managed to lay the blame at the foot of the previous regime and the injury situation. There may of course be truth in this assertion, especially the latter. Interestingly, he shares some of the traits of the previous incumbent, but has had the common sense/ natural ability to outdo him in spades where charm is concerned. We Town fans like to be flattered. The real test, of course, begins now. I am hopeful that he will be canny enough to do a better job than Flitcroft, who was awful with the media and seems to have stubbornly made enemies of certain players. It's a fine balance though. Brown has cleverly made public that he'd welcome back the likes of 'Waterford's number 1' (one of Power's few genuine assets, whose stock he'll be banking on rising again) but in reality, Vigs is not the Messiah, he's just a naughty boy. All in all I'm hopeful that the players will respond better to a wily 58 year old, and Power may also find the experience of working with a man of greater vintage different.

We all know Tom Smith is the Messiah

Not the Piper's son, surely?

Hmm, Flitcroft started out quite popular because he peddled a good line in bullshit. It was when the walk clearly failed to match the talk that his popularity diminished. So I'm not sure your central thesis that Brown is more charming/better with the media particularly holds up. He's in a bit of a "Not Flitcroft" honeymoon period at the moment rightly enough, but that will soon fade if he doesn't hit the ground running next season.

Of course, you would never assume you know how fellow fans think.

Further Phil won't need to hit the ground running as apparently, maintaining an 11 point record after 10 games will be just fine...

Clearly it won't. I don't need to rehash all the reasons why people have cut him some slack on that this season as it's been more than adequately covered in this thread, on posts you've answered.

So you would agree that PB will need to do better? 

As I already said

Spin things however you like, when the facts are put before you, you always swerve them and talk about something different or spin it to suit yourself. Are you sure you're a Labour man Reg, because with all that spin you seem more like a Tory Chief Whip?!

You was being pedant to a reasoning and you know exactly what you meant, no one challenged it so I did and we wouldn't have been "with the dead men" or however you'd like to phrase it. You talk about relegation all the time, you revel in the very mire of it. Stating that it would be a success to just stay up!

Yep I've bitten. If that was your main aim, to make another bite then shame on you. Shame on me for actually biting but I can't sit and have you spin stuff like a Polly. Every, damn time!

Clearly I represented that data because it needed to be said. It's obvious an 11pts over 10 games would not be good enough for a promotion push. As already stated by numerous on here, PB ws having to field 4th and 5th choice CBs, especially so when defence had been our achilles heel from the outset. His 10 games don't reflect his ability as a manager. With a team of players he believes can do better, we will do better next season. PB will get us POs minimum.

Backhanded, passive aggressive comments from you constantly. You got a response. Well done.

I appreciate your effort to look at the facts, even if your interpretation is often flawed. Sadly in football there are no guarantees as you probably know from the betting stuff you mention.

SHUT UP YOU BORING OLD FART

I reckon Reg must be fast approaching 'National Treasure' status  8)

He'll be sitting back enjoying every bit of the above interaction, that's for sure.

He does love a spot of trolling.

Is Reg the reason you've been keeping away lately, Sutton?  I'm not the most attentive poster.

You've missed some great football.  It was inevitable that a manager of Flitcroft's vision and achievement would have his head turned but we're hopeful once again for next season.

Very good  :D

He should be a shoe horn in for a job a the dignitas clinic. Boring them into a coma or driving the uncertain ones over the line.

I tell you what though, that is some seriously good cone gathering. He makes it look effortless - the mark of a truly great cone gatherer. I think this closes off any debate there may have been over whether PB was the right choice or not. We are in safe hands...

(http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/resources/images/7544136.jpg?htype=0&type=mc3)

Hmmm, is he gathering though or putting out? Still, impressive technique. Luke Williams should look up to this kind of exemplary behaviour.

Whereas I’m not going to go trawling through the archives, I expect your interpretation of the above would amount to little more than hinting that we might not be relegated. If you said something along the lines of ‘I think we will finish in the top half’, I’ll happily stand corrected.

I can say for sure that, as recently as December, you were clearly suggesting that we might go down - even if everything was dressed up in subtle hints from which you could later try distancing yourself.

He’s playing a sly devils advocate meets politically slanted message game to justify his position based on what everyone’s interpritation of his comments sound like. Kind of person who pulls the pin out of a grenade throws it then quickly hands you the pin then mysteriously disappears. Or the person in an meeting who throws in an open question to no-one in particular then shuts up to wait for everyone’s position to be made before declaring his own.

My personal favourite are the numerous Eastern European women he has had 'liasions' with!! I doubt he's left his bedroom for the last 30 years.

I’m more pleased by the fact we’ve sorted this early rather than the fact it’s Phil Brown

I think that's going a bit far now to be fair... :no:

I wouldn't doubt reg for one minute. He's a miserable bastard like me but based on empirical evidence but he's not a liar.

Am I alone in suddenly being more interested in the football club now were not actually playing football?

Im certainly more optimistic than 2 weeks ago.

What’s all this Reg baiting about? If he thinks we’re still in a dangerous place, he’s entitled to surely. I know most on here are a glass half full type but there’s got to be room for a doomster or 2.

I think a bit of stick was fair enough as he does go on and on like a stuck fucking record but it probably went a bit far. I'm sure Reg can handle it though...

Is Horton staying?

You would assume so. He turns 70 during 2018-19 though.

Ain't no way I'm working at 70. No matter what the retirement stats are predicting...!

70! Crikey. What does he do at training? Lace the balls?

As things stand, most people will be working until they die.

Unless the government decides to have some more wars, in which case we'll have to work for a bit longer than that.

Horton wasn't PBs assistant at Southend where he favoured ex Town loanee Graham Coughlan with Brian Horton as the clubs football coordinator.

Coughlan is still out of work since the Southen sacking along with PB, I think he may return as coach as long as PB is given full reign of staff appointments.

While Reg does manage to make me bite at times (well done), I'm not one to hold a witch-hunt against Reg. In fact, we've many shared loves (not women), with cricket and a good chunk of the arts amongst several and Reg is a decent one to have a casual intelligent chat with.

Time away from the screen does us all good, and perspective is a wonderful thing. Hearing about L-L's loss, gives you chance to take stock and think about family, etc.

Open forum will always bring diverse opinion, if we wish to live in a more centralised/controlled World maybe open forums just aren't for those types.

Anyway, it wouldn't be the same without a dose of Reg. Even if Reg thinks I'm some terrible young up start.

Even when Reg has long gone, I hope someone creates a "chatbot Reg" so we and future TEF users can eternally argue with the namesake. Who knows? Maybe we already are?

 :pint:

I would guess that Reg would not be optimistic about the likelihood of any Reg Chatbot.

Interesting statement from Brown on the official site -

"All I need to know is that when we get to the first game of the season, which is the fourth or fifth of August, we have to be ready as a group.
"That is as a collective. Not the Starting XI, not the seven on the bench but everyone together because, as far as I'm concerned, when I first came to the club it was far too easy to be in that treatment room.
"I want a group of players who have a mentality to not want to be in the treatment room.
"It is far too easy to be in there.
"They have to have that mentality from day one.

Suggests that players didn't really want to play last season and that something wasn't quite right in the dressing room - Hussey and DMac were out for ages with injuries that didn't seem that serious.

He wants them out of the treatment room, he's got his eye on that room for his sunbed!

 
 :clap:

Not in the slightest. I've probably posted on the same boards as him for approaching 20 years. I'm well aware of his foibles. As some one else mentioned, sometimes you need to flick the stylus to get past the never ending chorus.. Main reason is I've worked almost every weekend for 2 years, coupled with us being bollocks during that time span, when I've had the odd opportunity the logical thing was to put the feet up, save a 200 mile trip and £60/70 quid.

So I've had nothing to talk about. I'm not fussed about dash cams, Brexit, or cheese, as everyone has an Arse hole and and opinion, and both usually stink. So I avoid fanning the stench :)

Glad you're doing ok - even if Town are not.

A lot of occasional posters like me get a great deal of entertainment from some of the, ahem, old and prolific posters like you and Reg.

Hopefully you'll be heading down the M4 again soon

This is very true, I read this forum every day and have got to know all the regular posters, but I never post because I don't have anything interesting to add, anyway back to hawking,

But if nobody posted when they don't have anything interesting to say, there would be no chat at all

That's what facebook is for..

I thought it was so that Putin could swing things like the Brexit vote and getting Trump elected.

Or so you can be inundated with click bait & adverts about shit you don’t want

Nice contribution Akay.  I see you've earned a couple of utter cunt accolades.  Keep hawking. :)

I couldn't decide whether back to hawking meant he was reading a Brief History of Time, or had an interest in falconry.

Or selling from a suitcase  :)

For a while I had problems with understanding this
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41xIb5W6-zL._SX355_.jpg)

which people would affix to their front doors in the 50's.  You just didn't see too many walking around with raptors on their arms.

Or promising all those millennials a free uni education, conveniently forgetting to tell them they’ll be taxed to death if or when they get a job to pay for it in future years.

How old were you between 1962 and 1998? That was the period that university was free in this country. Introduced, of course, by Harold Macmillan's conservative Government.

And ruined by Blair's "university for all" approach that meant the governments bill suddenly got too big.
--
Mind you only the seriously rich avoid the current 9% "tax" on tuition free repayments, ones that will never be repayed. Meanwhile even parents of moderate income are shafted on cost of living contributions thanks to the Tory cunts and spineless Lib Dems.
--
I honestly don't think I'd have a problem with either of my kids avoiding uni altogether if they go into a trade.

Many seem to struggle with the concept of "Millennials" they get the grouping so wrong. Truth is a Millennial was born as early as 1980/81. It's all to do with the year you came "of age" and if you were about 18 in around 1997/98 (learning on the forefront of technological change, ie the internet) then you were one of the first Millennials. Though many wouldn't want to agree to that and my preference is not really to put people in boxes but it's been happening for a good hundred years or more. Below is the list of our cohorts thats are mostly still alive today;

The Greatest Gen: 1910-1924
CoA: 1928-1942
Age Today: 108-94
Historical Impact: Mostly our Soldiers of WWII. Those that survived were paraded as heroes. Their personal accounts preferred largely not to talk about what they saw. Helped in the restructuring of society with...
Status: Largely deceased

The Silent Gen: 1925-1945
CoA: 1943-1962
Age Today: 93-73
HI: Had a lot to live up to. Rose from the ashes of WWII. Times were tough but job creation was XXXX-fold and they got on with the job of restructuring society to some sense of normality and enabling the next bunch...
Status: Several deceased. Many still enjoying hard worked retirements.

Baby Boomers: 1946-1964
CoA: 1963-1982
Age Today: 72-54
HI: Free loving, reaping the benefits of their previous incumbents. Specifically during the 60s & 70s. You could get a job without any credentials. You could largely do what you wanted and it was passed of as "in the name of freedom". DNA wasn't a thing. The BBC was an orgy of sorts and the Police would wallop you if they wanted. Most were too stoned to fight anyway. It wasn't all sex and drugs though. It left many not knowing who their real Father was and many a Milkman was given a stern look. Towards the 80s all this burning the candle at both ends started to catch up with them. Unemployment started to rise and gave way to...
Status: Largely retired. Most took advantage of a fruitful period.

Gen X: 1965-1979
CoA: 1983-1997
Age Today: 53-39
HI: Poor old Gen X who had to pick up the exorbitant free love and partying of the Boomers. However, job creation was dropping off and unemployment was rising. The workplace took rise to "rules, rules, rules" (which of course was needed), with new H&S rules, etc incoming, it meant you could only really walk into a job if you knew the right people. Things were becoming more restrictive, you had to provide certificates and proof that you were competent and thus it was harder to get a job. If there were any!

Gen X still yearned for a piece of that Boomer pie, so the partying continued in sorts but less were working. It wasn't all bad. Gigs were cheap and so was Beer still (largely) and some of the best Rock and then Indie bands formed during this period, whilst not forgetting a rise of BritPop. If only there had been more employment Nationally, it would go down as a big success. Those pesky Boomers (although true, there's partial jealousy too), at least it was cheap to drown the sorrows. The weed and acid did filter through from the Boomer days, although this brought about more anxiety and the removal of serendipity.
Status: Mostly still in work. A few born near the Boomers may have got lucky. Most will be working until the Government says they can't - not when they can't.

Gen Y - Millennials: 1980-1994
CoA: 1998-2012
Age Today: 38-24
HI: Still in progress. The air of a digital age and the start of what looked like the rise from recession. prospects for early Millennials looked better than their previous, who had it toughish but weren't enabled to get out of it. This early surge of prosperity opened up an expectation that a Millennial could be anything they wanted and receive all the help to indeed achieve that. Not a bad deal on the surface. Even the Government told you in such words "Become an Astronaut, dead easy, we can train you.", "Become a Lawyer, study for 7 years, it's a piece of piss", "Study as a Medical Consultant Specialist, it's just like Law, except you get to look at bones and  organs and shit, yeah you can do that, no probs." Yes there was some early opportunity but then the reality was, who was really going to pay for it. After all the Government convinced them they should study further in sometimes unrealistic or difficult career paths, and that they'd "pay" for it. Of course this was a trick, and only papered over the cracks of the previous recessive era and it wasn't long before the Nation dipped again, and again.

Were/Are Millennials to blame for their own downfall? Not wholly as the Government did initially "Give, give, give" ceded to "Take back, take back, take back", but they have been largely naive in believing they could be and be entitled to whatever they wanted. It was the same story with credit, mortgages, and other loans. There seemed to be no understanding of who was going to actually foot the bill. Towards the end of the digital age the realisation had set in and those at the end of this period probably aren't as naive. They likely think Millennials be stupid to expect everything handed on a plate. It wasn't all bad though, as the crossover from digital age to mobile age changes hands, most Millennials find themselves in a fairly unique position of understanding how analogue/manual processes work still but also how the future of modern advances can be observed for good. It makes for a good blend and they must use this to their strength. Millennials set the shoots of this and will push it forward for the next bunch, if they don't they shall be known more so as Generation Debt...
Status: Largely in full time work but many suffering with the rise of Zero-hour contacts. Unique position of having it pretty good, whilst also having it pretty bad. Unless they adopt to more technological advances (or help it grow), they will likely work until they die. Even then the Government will probably still find a use for them.

Gen Z: 1995-2012
CoA: 2013-2030
Age Today: 23-6
HI: Mainly just starting out. Most still in School, College or Uni. A few early Z'ers being largely born into the digital world and CoA in the mobile age. It remains to be seen what the next 10 years may hold. Technologically they can be pioneers of new technologies within web monetisation and micropayments. Helping to enable many of the Worlds unbanked and also trying to stop the world from being totally destroyed by their predecessors and some of their own generation. They have a big ask and their downfall could well be the very technologies that they have been born unto. It is/does seem an exciting one. Some of these actually (if lucky) may become part of the first manned mission to Mars and so on, as we look to explore away from Earth further. Z'ers should be less naive than Millennials in the sense they won't be tricked into thinking they can have it all. With it being harder to obtain credit, there is a sense that early Z'ers/Late Mills will want to work hard for what they've got but will also want to spend it. The shift here is they're likely to spend it more so on experiencing things, rather than just material goods. Z'ers could be a good time to CoA. The main doubts will hinge on the outcome of Brexit and how the U.K recovers. This will be a big job for Gen Z, and the future of that is clearly to be decided. An air of caution would be; a lifestyle of wanting to become a "celebrity" (not in the traditional sense like a top artist), via Snapchat, Youtube, Instagram, etc could be their biggest drawback. There could be some short term gains but that area is incredibly disposable and must understand that you will easily be hurt. Online world is not the kindest of places. I'm sure they are far too aware of this. If not it may be left to...
Status: Whilst most are in education, there is an air of uncertainty with the implications of Brexit. If this wasn't the case they'd have the World at their feet, the luxury of learning from the naivety of the Millennials, and essentially no real excuses. Brexit throws them a curveball. It will still be an exciting period to CoA into and I wish them well.

Gen Alpha: 2013-
CoA: 2031-
Age Today: 5-
HI: Largely unknown. These young scamps will be generally unaware of what is in front of them yet. Owing to the future of our EU separation, we can only guess what they will have to deal with. Technologically these kids will have many opportunities regardless of the Brexit implications. It relies mainly on how the Z'ers before them respond and how it will then impact on them later. They should enjoy the simple things for now like learning to read, getting your proper teeth, petting animals, eating stuff and generally just having a carefree time (hmmm, maybe we all need a dose of this, even the teeth part!). There's a bit more time for them yet, so another decade will give us an idea of what should befall them.
Status: Largely unborn. A twinkle in many Millennials and some Z'ers eyes. A few will be starting education in September and I think we can all agree; enjoy school as much as you possibly can. It only gets harder!

...and after all that...it should really be in the Politics thread  :clap:

Seeing as this thread has answered its own question with Brown being appointed maybe we could consign it to the dustbin and end this mindless drivel. The bollocks ratio is way too high.

Yes, politics would have been ideal...as would F1, Golf, British Touring Cars, Games...these are also threads I never look at...just for future reference.. :hmmm:

 So PB is a boomer.

Yes I would guess so. It depends which sets of data you refer to though because as I'm sure you know, these Generational Cohorts are fairly flexible and can overlap. I'd say PB does fall into the Boomer category; not a swinging 60s adult but one of the 70s. I'm sure he remembers his time fondly, especially at Hartlepool and then Halifax. A diet of proper beer, proper pie, and proper gravy would likely have been his staple at the time. When men were men and all that jazz...

Thanks for the heads up  :soapy tit wank:

Seeing as Phil is a sand-dancer, I doubt he's completely cast off his roots....well maybe a bit of Grecian around the grey bits.

I'm sure he still enjoys a good pie. Shame he can't do anything about the catering situation. How many years are left on that 'contract' by the way?

Snap for me, and cycling.

It was a 10-year deal

Do you have any idea of the year it started? 2014/15ish maybe?

It was when the plasterboard and mini fridge Town end bar opened for a couple of games. I'd say 2013,

For some reason i thought it was later than that but if so, at least it's halfway done.

PB doing a BBC Wiltshire phone-in 6-7 pm tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/BBCWiltsSport/status/998503669032280064?s=20

Let's hope it is not a Shaun Hodgetts fest and people get to ask questions - although an hour isn't that long really

This is said every time, but has anyone who wants to ask a question ever been turned away due to the love in?

It's funny that people say people cannot call in, despite the fact that people call in on every...single...phone...in. Some of those callers have tried to give power some grief as well, yet still some insist that the calls are vetted beforehand.

It' fucking bizarre really. Some seem to be so caught up in their need to throw something at Power that cognitive dissonance prevents them from noticing that people actually do call in on the show.

Didn't he just mean with Hodgetts twittering on and the breaks, that there is not much time leftto air people's questions?

Hodgetts of course could be twittering on because not many people ring up..

(https://s31.postimg.cc/hfaxhyjff/hqdefault.jpg)

 :D

I’ve phoned in 3 or 4 times and got through each time to moan at Power about something or other - training ground sort of things, not about the standard of pies in the DRS.

Nobody asked what my question would be beforehand, although there is a time delay in case someone starts effing. Standard on all live stuff I think.

It' fucking bizarre really...

It's it's, it's! :)

I spoke to Shaun Hodgetts live on air once, didn't realise I was going to be on air  ???
Half heard a question being asked about a defender scoring in several consecutive games, I knew it was Bodin, thought it was for a prize  :D

were you going to ask Shaun some DIY question?

Ironically I was decorating at the time  :)

You seem to do a lot of decorating.

I've moved house a lot  ;)

If he's a gynecologist by profession, then he'll be able to decorate his whole house via the letter box.

Horton gone then

Horton hears a who.....

That’ll please Chalkies

Clears the way for a player/assistant manager?

Is Nile Ranger free atm, or banged up  :hmmm:

If it was his decision, as it seems, just where does a near 70 year old think he’s going to get another job?

An ideal, and maybe a manufactured, opportunity for Matt Taylor.

B&Q?  :)

He's 70, I suspect he may not be in a rush to get another job at all.

PB's assistant at Southend for nearly 2 years was ex Town loanee Graham Coughlan, I expect the same here.

The likes of Woy and Wenger of similar vintage, speak of it being a sort of addiction that they can't let go.  Jupp Heynckes, has just officially retired from Bayern aged 73, he semi retired a couple of years ago but couldn't resist one last throw of the dice this season.

As the pension age creeps up over the coming years we're going to have to get used to more septuagenarians in work.

Probably. Probably a bit soon for Taylor..

I think Taylor will do his coaching badges with us this season and do a lot of coaching (as he seemed to do this season) which will be a good grounding for his future career but yes I think assistant may be a bit too soon for him, unless PB thinks otherwise of course.

One less Scummer at the CG is always something to rejoice. Purkiss going as well. The only questionable one now is Taylor and that's been done to death whether he is or not and whether people believe he is or isn't.
For my sins, I think he is but then I'm in the application of the old ducking stool methodology in investigating accusations of Scummery. 

That does depend on whether you believe him as he stated as much in an interview with Shaun Hodgetts just after he signed.

The audio is available still to download somewhere I am sure, but he did state that a lot of his wifes family are Pox fans but he most definately isn't, which is good enough for me.

But each to their own, For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.

Better still,  ring in to the phone in tonight on Wiltshire sound,  6-7, and ask the questions yourself !.

I imagine with Horton gone (who was probably just a temporary fix for PB at short notice) that should pave way for Graham Coughlan to come in as PB looks to not only build his own playing team but his own managerial team to. I'd imagine Coughlan will roll up here. That being the case, it will further cement a tour of the Republic of Ireland. Surely? Coughlan has RoI roots and I'm sure PB enjoys a Guiness or two.

If Reg fancies a trip and the Town play Waterford in a friendly then he'll have chance to visit his namesakes tower in the city. Ahh bliss :)

What there's a 'Miserable Bastard' Tower in Waterford????  :hmmm: ;)

Was there any news on the phone in regarding whether or not any of the contract offers have been accepted/rejected?

He said he was hopeful that 3 would be settled by this weekend. 

Taylor already has a fifa pro licence, is that the same sort of thing?

I know he had taken his UEFA C badge I didn't know he had taken the UEFA Pro, then he won't be taking any more badges with us then if that is true.

I have found this from March.

According to what he said on the radio the other night,  blue vein and the bluer the better - case solved.

Do you mean UEFA A license?

Possibly, I know hes got his basic FA and UEFA coaching licences/badges but according to that article was still trying to get the Pro one, which is obviously the highest qualification currently.

I thought Brown mentioned in the phone in that it would be a major coup having three of them with a pro licence. I assumed he meant himself, his new assistant & Matty Taylor

That's how I read it too

Could well be, he must have completed it since the article in March then, I still haven't listened to the interview yet but I do hope to.

Or it might be that Brown was thinking ahead, looking at it as a long-term link up with Taylor? FWIW, you only need the Pro License to manage in the Premiership, you can manage in the League with an A Licence, which he already has. Although obviously, it's a bonus for recruiting new players to be able to say the manager, asst manager and player coach all have the Pro Licence.

According to that reliable rumour twitter account Matty Taylor is signing a new contract.  Which is nice.

Yes. Unsurprising but nice nonetheless. :nod:

Interesting article regarding Browns assistant today.

I reckon its Neil McDonald

That'd be my guess as well. Looks good on paper.

I seen the fans voice GWR tweeted Taylor is set to sign a coaching contract at Watford. Where have they plucked that from?

Edit - Seems to be a different twitter account for GWR as opposed to the ‘official’ one.

Nothing on the hornets website yet.

Wasn't one of the reasons Taylor moved to us that he was closer to his home in Abingdon or some Oxfordshire village as he was fed up travelling too far?

Surely that would be doubling his journey?

Could be true and maybe he needs the break from us as there is no coaching position available yet for him.

Hope that's true.  Very highly regarded coach.

I guess it depends on whether he wants to carry on playing.  If he doesn't and that wouldn't be a surprise, as at times last season he looked completely knackered, then a gig at Watford would be a good starting place for a coaching career.

It was that sense that here's a fella, still giving it his all which endeared him to most fans.  It would be completely understandable if he thinks he can't do another season.

He was very fit person over all and when on form a great player at this level even with his legs almost gone, but as you say at times he looked ready for the scrapheap but then other times he looked 21 again.

At 36 and a half there can't be many more games left in him.

Watford do have a history of good youth coaching so if he goes in at that level then that would be a good grounding if we cannot offer him similar.

McDonald it is

Good news.

Comes with a lot of experience and highly regarded apparently, has managerial experience too, has to be good for us.

Have to admit, having no particular memory of Neil either as player or coach/manager/cone carrier.  We've had some interesting characters down the years, tasked with cone collecting. These days, they don't seem to last more than 5 minutes.

Bringing McDonald in has made me feel a lot more optimistic about next season.

Out of interest, why? 

McDonald (not Ronald) has worked under some top end managers and coaches. Hasn't he worked under Phelan (Mike not Pat), of Man Utd fame? Quite, Phelan hasn't turned out to be the best Manager but he was a cracking coach. I'm sure McDonald has learnt a lot from the people he's worked under.

At L2 level this is an impressive appointment. It also tells you that PB isn't just building a short term squad but a backroom staff equipped to deal with players, the further up the league spectrum we/Town go.

Some interesting stuff on NM here, apparently he was favourite for the managers job at Carlisle before signing for us.

https://www.thecumbrians.net/index.php/cufc-forum/main-forum/8598-mcdonald-headed-elsewhere

Must be a fairly good sign if he turned down a managers job to be assistant for a club in the same division.

All I can think of is that he played for Newcastle against us in the infamous Macari/Hillier hedge betting match.  So I must have seen him play.... just remember Gazza more.

Apparently he played against us twice, once for Newcastle in the 5-0 defeat and once for Oldham in 92 at home in the LC.

Considering he played 300 league games and is the same age as me I have little memory of him as a player, I know the Carlisle fans didn't take to him as a manager and that he was manager at Blackpool when they were on their slide, otherwise I know little about him and his style of management etc.

Just had to Wiki him now. Yes he did work under Phelan at Hull. He was manager at Limerick recently but was assistant at Scunny most recently. He left Limerick to go to Scunthorpe. So maybe he feels he is a better assistant than as an actual manager?

That's a good sign and shows he'll be happy to let PB lead. Also would be an adequate caretaker, if needed.

Reading the Blackpool forum they have very little time for him, lots of fuckwit type comments on him BUT they do say hes a good assistant even if he can't cut it in the main job.

He has the experience we need and thats all I care about, anything he did before coming to us is irrelevant really.

Don’t tell him Pike!

McDonald will (hopefully) complement Brown well as he's more analytical and a good coach.  Don't think McDonald enjoys the stress of being number 1 or man management especially. I would have been a little concerned if Brown's assistant had been another enforcer type like Futcher or Coughlan.  Brown's strengths are more on the man management side and less on analysis, tactics etc. 

That’s it I warned you not to. Now you’re in his little book, come the revolution you are earmarked for the saltmines or up against the wall 😂

Interesting, I know nothing of McDonald, however from what PB has said doesn't he view himself as primarily a coach?  For me, it should work best when the gaffer and his number 2, don't do good cop, bad cop, but rather the number 2, mostly listens to the gaffer and tells him when he's screwing up. The gaffer should then trust him enough to take notice and act.

The classic example of how it should work, the recent Europa final where Atletico turned over Arsenal, Simeone banished to the stand. When asked if it would make any difference he said "no" as German Burgos, his number 2 knows exactly what they want.

I think it also helps if the players believe that one of them is more approachable, usually the assistant manager.

For me the best at this was Wilf tranter under Bob Smith, the players were always a bit scared of Bob but Wilf was always open to interactions with players.

It was no coicidence that we started to fall down the leagues when Wilf left to manage Banbury (IIRC) in 82 leaving Smith with no decent assistant.

This talk of cone collectors got me thinking about a list of incumbents.... I go back to Jack Conley, who worked with Bert Head.  Harry Cousins was also around, but he was technically "trainer" which is more today's physio, though Harry had no qualifications beyond bucket and sponge carrying.  Jack was more the nice guy as Bert wasn't adverse to getting up close and personal. Jack stayed on when Danny Williams came in.

I think that when Jack retired, Maurice Owen came in and did a stint in one of his many different roles at the club. Maurice did the job under Fred Ford.

When Dave Mackay took over he brought in Des Anderson, with whom he went on to win the League title at Derby.

Les Allen went back to Maurice Owen for his short stint

 Who did second time Danny have?... because that would bring us up to Wilf Trantor

The importance of a good assistant cannot be understated.

Every great manager has a great assistant. Often one they have relied upon in the past.

Mcdonald worked with PB at Bolton for several years when PB was assistant to Big Sam there so PB knows what to expect.

Ferguson used to go through them.... they've mostly struggled somewhat when branching out on their own.

He had about 7 in 27 years...with 4 of them being with him for at least 5 years.

Both Archie Knox and Brian Kidd had long spells at Man United. The former carving a fairly decent career as a manager and Kidd is a respected coach on both sides of Manchester.

McClaren was only with him for 2 or 3 but probably was assistant in their most fruitful period (that 1999 treble). On his own, he gave Middlesbrough their first ever major honour and a place in a european competition. I believe he gave them their highest ever league finish too. His time at Twente was also a success, breaking the mold of Ajax and PSV by winning the Eredivisie, was no mean feat. International football clearly wasn't for him and the view of being a "Mr. Fix It" tag seems to have become the norm. While he hasn't superseded his early successes, he can still go down as doing what many English managers have never done; Won a title at a foreign club.

Carlos Queiroz I don't know huge amounts about, except I did read in FourFourTwo once that his managerial win percentage has never dropped below 41%. Make of that what you will but I'd say that's not bad going, for an assistant.

Phelan has been mentioned. He's only really managed Hull and yet they've changed managers more often than a whore's knickers get pulled down. I'd say he hasn't had a proper stab at management so can't really be judged.

So to say Ferguson "used to go through them" when four of them covered 22/23 years of a 27 year reign is a tad off. To then say "they've mostly struggled...on their own" is also a bit out.

 Wenger had 2 in 22 years at Arsenal. Mourinho has had 1, until recently (Rui Faria)  in the 17 years he's managed at all different clubs. That's my reference point for comparison. As for Brian Kidd, he learned all he knew on cone collecting at the CG.  His Preston team in the 80's were the worst side I've ever seen, would have gone to the Conference if relegation had been in place. I'm surprised you haven't yet taken up the cudgel of lets make a list of STFC cone collectors.

Even with recent years notwithstanding, there's been too many  ;)

A few posts ago I asked if anyone could remember 2nd term Danny's assistant?  This was a time when I lived elsewhere, so the more prosaic stuff escaped me, but I think Frank Burrows might have been around.  Frank should probably have got a shot at the top job here, he did pretty well at Pompey and I think Cardiff.  That fitted the tradition of the respected ex player, knows the club. knows the fans etc. I suppose we still sort of have that with Alan Mac and Lee Peacock being around the place.

Byrne and Shirtliff.

Williams not Wilson.... lets not get ahead of ourselves. I think we've got up to Wilf Trantor, so who did for John Trollope, in his stint, I know at some point he got in Ken Beamish, but that was after relegation? The Don was a youth coach for a while, but not sure he ever elevated to the lofty hoights of first team cone carrier.

Ah sorry missread.

I only started going regularly in 76-77 even though I went a few times before then they were sparse as I was 10 in 76 so no I don't remember who his assistant was either.

Wasn't Neil McDonald the one that said they contained Ajose well after he just scored a hat trick against them?

I am pretty sure he was Blackpool manager in 2016, so could well be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2cPjGtrDOw

No mention in that interview but you could be right.

No probs, looking more closely KB came in for 81/82, which would leave the part season 80/81 when JT took over from Bob Smith.