Phil Brown: Yes or No?

[Peter Venkman]

Di Canio wasn't an exception, he ruled by divide and rule, factions and "the bomb squad" were a core part of his methodology.

Indeed, under Macari the players respected and wanted to improve for the good of the team, but with PdC the players were scared of him and wanted to improve so they were not singled out for scapegoating.

[Reg Smeeton]

I think this is the point Bryan Wade was making. The emphasis on physical fitness was just part of their method of keeping the players constantly focused on a winning mindset.

The difference in fitness between now and 30 years ago, is emphasised by 3 subs.  If you're a donkey Div 4 centre half now, like a Preston, Lancashire, the opposition can bring on a couple of pacy lads for the last 20 and that causes you a problem.... not something CC and David Cole faced in 85/86. Or they might bring in a couple of bodies to try and flood the midfield etc. You have to counter it.   A lot of this stuff is about perception... the fitness thing now is players expect a level of facilities at training grounds and support staff etc we've slipped miles behind the norm.   

Another thing which has been a damaging theme this season is lack of numbers on the bench.... I think we had 3/4 at Grimsby for example, the players notice these things. If you can't counter the opposition's substitutions it makes it difficult.

[RobertT]

On the subject of fine margins and much-of-muchness in Division 4, I saw a comment by Bryan Wade in a twitter exchange the other week about how Macari's extreme fitness regime made all the difference in our 83-84 promotion year, and he didn't understand why clubs didn't focus on extreme fitness now. It wasn't just about being physically fit - it was about how Macari's obsession with good habits (including spying on them on nights out) made the players focus every day on improving, which in turn built a winning mindset.

Could a return to an extreme fitness regime pay dividends again, or has a general improvement in training methods meant that a club at this level can't stand out from the pack on fitness any more? Or would modern players not put up with that degree of managerial interference in their lives?

Sometimes it is just a luck blend of the right person with the right method at the riht time with the right players.  Macari didn't pull up trees after us.  Ardiles has little sprints of success but was often exposed.

Listening to a sports psychologist type guy once was interesting.  He was very certain that the key to most professional sportsmen was in the head, but it was not an exact science.  The key is unlocking the potential of the individual - every day.  Any moments of doubt that creep in can undermine weeks of work with them.  he worked with Darren Clarke, who was top ten before dropping to below 150 in the PGA rankings or something, then they worked together and he won a Major.  He said he did nothing to improve his ability, but that Clarke had lost "focus" even if he didn't realise it himself.

This is why in football, players can be in a top Academy one week and playing non-league the next.  They can also go the other way, but it is much rarer.  You'd think if they were that shit, the original top club would have known sooner, but the difference in them and world beater is usually their ability to maintain the right degree of focus.  To train like every day is a new start.  Just look at Chelsea recently - how can a team break the league points record and then turn to jelly?  All in the noggin.  Players at our level can't make it through a game without switching off.  It's precisely what makes a good and bad keeper, the ability to remain 100% focused for every second of a game.

Good Managers tend to keep things simple for the players, so there is less to focus on.  Make it muscle memory, engrain a way of playing they can easily remember.  That is why Macaris worked for us - he had a bunch of players who brought into his way - he could probably have let them watch movies all day and been as good (to a degree), so long as they follow.  If they believe in the method, in the Manager, in each other and themselves, they can be the players that top clubs wanted as youngsters.  They need to be 100% in.  Di Canio was a bit different, as PaulD mentions, in that he just shipped players in an out when they began to flake or challenge the method.  Similar to Ferguson (who clearly had the respect to maintain it for longer periods with players) and also someone like Redknapp.  Someone who did do quite well overall as a Manager, largely by shipping players in and out at regular intervals.

[chalkies_shorts]

Indeed, under Macari the players respected and wanted to improve for the good of the team, but with PdC the players were scared of him and wanted to improve so they were not singled out for scapegoating.

I believe Bamber may have been the exception to Macaris motivation

[Peter Venkman]

Sometimes it is just a luck blend of the right person with the right method at the riht time with the right players.  Macari didn't pull up trees after us. 

Although I agree with your judgement as I have said many times, its all about the right manager and squad at the right time that just clicks.

What surprised me was that Macari actually got better a while after he left us results wise, he had a 50% win ratio with Birmingham and Stoke City 1st time (162 games) compared to 48.4% (285 games) with Swindon.

[Reg Smeeton]

Although I agree with your judgement as I have said many times, its all about the right manager and squad at the right time that just clicks.

What surprised me was that Macari actually got better a while after he left us results wise, he had a 50% win ratio with Birmingham and Stoke City 1st time (162 games) compared to 48.4% (285 games) with Swindon.

LM was well regarded at Stoke especially.

You only need to watch Cardiff, to see how it's done.  Warnock will pretty much guarantee you a promotion.... his template, pack the side with 6 footers, with a couple of little uns who are roadrunners, and play the % ages.

When Cardiff line up a defensive wall, Sean Morrison isn't their biggest player.

[BambooToTheFuture]

 That is why Macaris worked for us - he had a bunch of players who brought into his way - he could probably have let them watch movies all day and been as good (to a degree), so long as they follow.  If they believe in the method, in the Manager, in each other and themselves, they can be the players that top clubs wanted as youngsters.  They need to be 100% in.  Di Canio was a bit different, as PaulD mentions, in that he just shipped players in an out when they began to flake or challenge the method.  Similar to Ferguson (who clearly had the respect to maintain it for longer periods with players) and also someone like Redknapp.  Someone who did do quite well overall as a Manager, largely by shipping players in and out at regular intervals.

You're totally right and the Darren Clarke reference too.

Wasn't it PDC that said something in a post match interview (may have been the Wigan FA Cup win) like "With me the players will probably have less free time in the week, but I always said to my players that you don't have to love me, but follow me. An together we will win."

I know PDC said many things but it does echo your comment above and even if just in theory he is quite correct. When this goes wrong of course is when the players do not follow instruction.

[Wobbly Bob]

The Leon Clarke "fuck that" approach to too much running in training hasn't done him too much harm in his post STFC career.

[BambooToTheFuture]

The Leon Clarke "fuck that" approach to too much running in training hasn't done him too much harm in his post STFC career.

Maybe so, not all are so lucky. Also you could say Leo Clarke was already an established pro, having played most of his career in the Championship before joining us. Loans aside. He's now still in the Championship.

[Wobbly Bob]

Maybe so, not all are so lucky. Also you could say Leo Clarke was already an established pro, having played most of his career in the Championship before joining us. Loans aside. He's now still in the Championship.

Yeah, one that got away and still wearing his kit.
I wonder sometimes what would have happened had he managed to survive PDC.
A KMac proof position at the top of the league?

[Flashheart]

The rumour mill is rumbling. Just don't know about who, or what, yet.

[Reg Smeeton]

The rumour mill is rumbling. Just don't know about who, or what, yet.

Has Waddock gone already 

[Peter Venkman]

Has Waddock gone already 

http://www.shotsweb.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47500&sid=c99b9cb629a95401efd76cc030ca6a40

[RedRag]

Yeah, one that got away and still wearing his kit.
I wonder sometimes what would have happened had he managed to survive PDC.
A KMac proof position at the top of the league?

Matt Ritchie alone would have fulfilled that role.

I don't recall many occasions when a side was wanting for either fitness or organisation under PDC even if his man management led to additional expense.  Matt Ritchie's qualities were all his own but he did what he was told and visibly grew as a player under PDC.

I don't see there being many managers available at our level who would have the authority or personality (good or bad) to drive an STFC squad to be markedly fitter than other League 2 sides.

It just so happens that long time Stanley servant, John Coleman, has been such a man but he had barely penetrated my consciousness until very recently.

[Batch]

http://www.shotsweb.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47500&sid=c99b9cb629a95401efd76cc030ca6a40

Town manager by the end of tomorrow then...