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Swindon Town FC => The Boardroom => Topic started by: Summerof69 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 07:05:39



Title: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Summerof69 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 07:05:39

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15158582.Supporters__Trust_consider_bid_for___1_1m_County_Ground/

For more info come to the Trust AGM tonight at the Goddard Arms

http://truststfc.tv/agm/


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Sippo on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 07:56:31
I believe James Phipps is part of the trust....

Thankyou.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Tails on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 08:00:46
Wish I could head down but wouldn't be able to get there on time.

Look forward to the updates


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FrigbyDaser on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 08:07:08
Good luck to them. I'd be interested to hear how this is intended to work if Power continues to own the club. I've finally reached the point that I'm convinced we need new owners.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 08:35:53
Fair play to them if they can come to an agreement with the council and then the club over rental.

Hopefully then the ground facilities can then be brought up to league 2 standard.

The problem may arrise if the present or future owners of the club decide to eventually move to a new ground, thats a large investement with that sporting covenant hanging over their heads meaning the land cannot be sold for anything other than sporting use rendering it almost valuless if that did happen in time unless the covenant can be changed.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 09:15:04
Great idea. Struggling to see any downside to this.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: ronnie21 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 09:17:39
A very good plan - in principle!  Can never see it happening sadly but it would be good for the town in general if it could happen but let us not forget that although SBC appear to be supportive of the principal there is an awful lot of work to do before any conclusion.  SBC also offered the club some land on which to build a new stadium some years ago and quickly withdrew that offer after ONE councillor raised objections!!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 09:22:57
I'll chip in a 5er


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 09:29:10
Would be great if it came off, and if the Club are paying c.200k PA for it that's an 18% yield on the investment which is unheard of, although I do wonder whether the members will go for such a beneficial deal to the Trust which is not great value for the tax payer, especially as the idea that it will include a club museum, sport-themed hotel and gym, and a ‘Legends Way’ suggests its more than the footprint of the ground?

The next step would be raising the money to actually tidy the place up a bit, whilst the Trust would not be looking to take a profit c.£200k per year is not a lot of money to bring up to standards so we shall see. Plus I am sorry to say whenever I read the word 'investors' in terms of buying any football ground my ears prick up and my bum gets squeaky.

At least a bit of bright news....


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 09:46:06
The problem may arrise if the present or future owners of the club decide to eventually move to a new ground, thats a large investement with that sporting covenant hanging over their heads meaning the land cannot be sold for anything other than sporting use rendering it almost valuless if that did happen in time unless the covenant can be changed.
Which it can, it can be bought out from the Goddard estate. We go over this every time the covenant is discussed!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 09:47:18
Which it can, it can be bought out from the Goddard estate. We go over this every time the covenant is discussed!

Indeed but at even greater cost to the Trust/Investors?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 09:49:18
Indeed but at even greater cost to the Trust/Investors?
Well, yes, but it's an exit route in the scenario that PV posited - not suggesting it's easy/desirable, but buying the ground doesn't have to mean you're locked into a dead elephant (mixed metaphor intentional!) in the event that a future owner moved to a different ground. It's an excellent scheme IMO


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Riddick on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:12:43
Forgive my ignorance but i don't see why this is such a good idea?

If the club wishes for any future beyond being a 4th division club then it requires either complete ground redevelopment or a new ground. Either scenario being required for the club to generate income beyond the 23 home days in a season. Now given this is the only way to potentially make money from the club why is the trust owning this a good idea when its the only thing that a new owner/investor would really want with the club? Especially given the trust i assume would not be able to sell this to an investor and the council would have a buy back clause.

It seems to me something that could help the club in the short term possibly but given the only real future for the club requires us to make the leap 2/3rds of the football league already has i'm not sure how it solves the bigger problem here.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:27:18
Maybe it's the first step to STFC being a trust-owned club. Maybe there is someone in the background willing to step in and revamp the ground as long as it's not council owned.

It's about the only bright spot in a shite couple of seasons.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Pericles on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:29:11
My concern is what Lee Power has planned. Would buying the ground safeguard us from administration once he decides to walk away, presumably after he's cashed in on Vigs? It might sound like a stupid question but I genuinely want to know.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:29:27
Well, yes, but it's an exit route in the scenario that PV posited - not suggesting it's easy/desirable, but buying the ground doesn't have to mean you're locked into a dead elephant (mixed metaphor intentional!) in the event that a future owner moved to a different ground. It's an excellent scheme IMO

Indeed it is and I admit I am being unduly cynical when I see the suggestion that 'Investors' are involved?

If they buy the ground for say £1.1m, club decides to bugger off after 4 years (so they could have recouped say c.£1m in rent and remember that the club have to maintain the ground as part of the lease so outgoings could be minimal), then spend say £1m getting the covenant removed, they are still only £1m down and have a piece of prime central Swindon real estate to do with what they choose, and I don't believe for one second that the Council would have the ability or appetite to enforce any buy back clause.

I will emphasise again that I think as it stands its a great idea (although I would echo the post above about being unsure how it benefits the long term sustainability of the club - unless it is phase 1 of a wider plan to ultimately buy the club and unite club and ground), however my cynic alarm keeps going off with the same question - how would people react if Power and 'investors' were looking to complete the same process.



Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:32:55
My concern is what Lee Power has planned. Would buying the ground safeguard us from administration once he decides to walk away, presumably after he's cashed in on Vigs? It might sound like a stupid question but I genuinely want to know.

I have probably missed it, but can you point me to the credible source that suggests that Power is planning to sell Vigorous and walk away? If that were the case would he not be playing players like Evans who have ability and thus a likely value to get rid of them also in the summer - of even just for compensation fee?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:33:00
my thoughts:
  - roof on stratton bank = stupid waste of money
 - this = good


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Tails on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:39:15
My concern is what Lee Power has planned. Would buying the ground safeguard us from administration once he decides to walk away, presumably after he's cashed in on Vigs? It might sound like a stupid question but I genuinely want to know.

Jesus how much do you think Vigs is worth?!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Pericles on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:43:02
I have probably missed it, but can you point me to the credible source that suggests that Power is planning to sell Vigorous and walk away? If that were the case would he not be playing players like Evans who have ability and thus a likely value to get rid of them also in the summer - of even just for compensation fee?

I did say presumably so wasn't stating it as fact. I'd be very surprised to see Vigs here next season. You could say he does see the value in players like Evans and Smith which is why he's sent them to Waterford. I believe Smith at least, is out of contract in the summer so Waterford could snap him up on a free. He could sell him from them in the future and make money. I have no idea what is in the guy's head but I do fear for the future of the club. I just don't see the point in owning the ground if Power effs off and leave us in admin, unless its part of an overall plan to buy the club in such an event.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:45:13
We go over this every time the covenant is discussed!
Then you have my apologies as I have never read anything on here previously about the covenant and have not contributed to any thread that mentioned it, I shall now shut up.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:47:45
Just crossed my mind when replying to another thread, where does this sit with the money we owe Black if the ground is developed, could this be a way of circumventing that if the redevelopment is undertaken by the Trust (but possibly funded by A.N. Other?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:49:44
 This is definitely a knock down price.... it may well be a case that if the Trust don't get it then the sharks will.  SBC are covering their political arse, by offering the Trust first dibs.

If it doesn't work out then they can sell to a Consortium of Terry Brady, Mike Diamandis, Danny Donegan, Jim Little, Rufus Brevitt, Ian Blatchley, Jed, Callum Rice, Tommy Agombar and Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Pericles on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:50:14
Jesus how much do you think Vigs is worth?!

Vigs is just one player of many who Power has sold over his time here. I'm not suggesting Vigs is worth 5 million ffs, but a few hundred thousand which still goes towards what Power feels he is owed. We don't know how much he has made from other sales, perhaps he has made enough to recoup his money already or a little more. I'm sure someone here will do the sums and correct me. I am aware money doesn't always get transferred in a lump sum and does come in instalments or with add ons so it can take some time, so he may not have reached the figure he feels acceptable yet. Obviously he would want to make a profit but who's to say once he's made enough he won't just say 'thanks I'm off' and leave us in the shit?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:52:26
Then you have my apologies as I have never read anything on here previously about the covenant and have not contributed to any thread that mentioned it, I shall now shut up.
Sorry PV didn't mean to come across as snippy with you but this, along with the legend of the bloke on Shrivenham Rd that blocked planning permission for redeveloping the Stratton Bank (he didn't, there was no such bloke, the club got planning permission but didn't use it), really does have to be one of the hoariest old chestnuts about ground redevelopment and it comes up every single time it's discussed.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:52:51
This is definitely a knock down price
What is? Not seen a price attached to this?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:54:34
What is? Not seen a price attached to this?
It says £1.1m in the Advertiser piece?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:55:12
It says £1.1m in the Advertiser piece?
I need to learn to read things better :)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:55:34
This is definitely a knock down price.... it may well be a case that if the Trust don't get it then the sharks will.  SBC are covering their political arse, by offering the Trust first dibs.


Dpon't they have to offer it to the Trust first, the whole ACV first dibs to the community malarky?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 10:58:31
I need to learn to read things better :)

You need to read my posts better as well, bitch  ;) as I mentioned the price above and the yield they could turn on it, Christ an 18% yield just to rent to the club is easy money for the Trust and their backers, if the Trust opened it out to members to invest and avoided any large investors I would pile in, its 4-5 times what you would get in the Building Society at the moment!  :hmmm:


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:00:10
Sorry PV didn't mean to come across as snippy with you but this, along with the legend of the bloke on Shrivenham Rd that blocked planning permission for redeveloping the Stratton Bank (he didn't, there was no such bloke, the club got planning permission but didn't use it), really does have to be one of the hoariest old chestnuts about ground redevelopment and it comes up every single time it's discussed.
Not a problem but I genuinely had not heard that before and also I have not heard that version of the "old man with the sun been blocked in his garden" story, when I worked at the club that was always the line the hierarchy told the employees. This is the first time I have heard a different version.

It did always strike me at the time that it didn't sound right and we were told back in the late 80s that he was also in his 70s or 80s so would not be an issue now as he would have moved on probably.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:04:00
Dpon't they have to offer it to the Trust first, the whole ACV first dibs to the community malarky?

Yes, so in effect the Trust has to put up or shut up.  Failure would then mean a sale to the sharks and the lucre going towards the new art gallery. SBC need to find 5 mill. Not an easy sell whennyou've just raised Council Tax by 10%, but easier to swing by using funds from selling assets.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: theakston2k on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:17:33
Whilst on paper owning the ground would be good this also has catastrophic potential for the clubs future. If the Trust don't 'put up' then in all likelihood we are going to be left without a ground as other parties are bound to be interested at such a knock down price.

It Power (the club) don't come to the table during these discussions then even I will start to question his intentions as would suggest he has other plans or doesn't really where we play.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:23:18
It Power (the club) don't come to the table during these discussions then even I will start to question his intentions as would suggest he has other plans or doesn't really where we play.
I'd be more concerned if he did, some of his previous involvements in clubs where the ground has been in play, or the involvement of his partners in other clubs, are a big part of why I was initially very dubious about him being owner. Albeit they were a long time ago and he wasn't the main player in the property aspects. But none of them went well for the clubs concerned.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: theakston2k on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:26:39
I'd be more concerned if he did, some of his previous involvements in clubs where the ground has been in play, or the involvement of his partners in other clubs, are a big part of why I was initially very dubious about him being owner. Albeit they were a long time ago and he wasn't the main player in the property aspects. But none of them went well for the clubs concerned.
I get what you are saying but you would expect the club to show some interest in a potential change in ground ownership as it will have a significant impact on them.

Doesn't the club own the DR Stand or something as well which I'm sure would need to factor into discussions.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:29:37
Just a plea to anyone within the hierarchy of the Trust, can you please sort your website and SEO out, if you google Truststfc you get .co.uk, .com and .tv, now I think its the .tv which is the up to date version but all the others still have live websites, could they not just automatically link to the most up to date URL?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:32:56
Whilst on paper owning the ground would be good this also has catastrophic potential for the clubs future. If the Trust don't 'put up' then in all likelihood we are going to be left without a ground as other parties are bound to be interested at such a knock down price.

It Power (the club) don't come to the table during these discussions then even I will start to question his intentions as would suggest he has other plans or doesn't really where we play.

A  decent non league club could easily operate out of a slightly upgraded Supermarine ground.... the likes of Burton and Fleetwood have shown a capacity of about 6,000 isn't necessarily a problem.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:34:58
I get what you are saying but you would expect the club to show some interest in a potential change in ground ownership as it will have a significant impact on them.

Doesn't the club own the DR Stand or something as well which I'm sure would need to factor into discussions.

Doesn't the piece suggest that Sangita has had some involvement with the Trust and these meetings?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: theakston2k on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:52:12
Doesn't the piece suggest that Sangita has had some involvement with the Trust and these meetings?
Not with regards to the ground purchase it says Power has shown little interest.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 12:00:50
A  decent non league club could easily operate out of a slightly upgraded Supermarine ground.... the likes of Burton and Fleetwood have shown a capacity of about 6,000 isn't necessarily a problem.
Well done Reg. Yesterday you had us relegated already from League 2 to the conference and now you have cut our core support to half of what it is at the moment only needing a capacity of 6k.

Burton and Fleetwood are both newish league clubs with not much history and very small crowds, Fleetwood averaging just over 3k and Burton averaging just under 5k in the Championship.

Both those clubs have several other large clubs around them vying for support whereas we don't, our fanbase is quite comfortably 2 or 3 times the size of both those teams.

If we were in Fleetwoods position in the table we would (and have) average 10k home crowds and possibly 12k if we were in the Championship as Burton are.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 12:19:48
Well done Reg. Yesterday you had us relegated already from League 2 to the conference and now you have cut our core support to half of what it is at the moment only needing a capacity of 6k.

Burton and Fleetwood are both newish league clubs with not much history and very small crowds, Fleetwood averaging just over 3k and Burton averaging just under 5k in the Championship.

Both those clubs have several other large clubs around them vying for support whereas we don't, our fanbase is quite comfortably 2 or 3 times the size of both those teams.

If we were in Fleetwoods position in the table we would (and have) average 10k home crowds and possibly 12k if we were in the Championship as Burton are.

I'm merely responding to Theakston's assertion that
Quote
It Power (the club) don't come to the table during these discussions then even I will start to question his intentions as would suggest he has other plans or doesn't really where we play.


The lack of any proper effort to stave off relegation this season, does raise valid questions of intent The acquisition of Waterford, does suggest Power is more interested in club collecting than being too bothered about the status of the club...increasingly it looks like a non league STFC wouldn't cause him much loss of sleep.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 12:24:49
Which it can, it can be bought out from the Goddard estate. We go over this every time the covenant is discussed!

Sorry but I might have missed it, but are we looking at a similar option to Chelsea Pitch Owners Ltd? Can we buy the naming rights as well?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 12:44:28
This is exactly the sort of thing the Trust should be looking to do, stage one of a long term plan to secure the club.  With the possible yield on investment I would have a guess that funding would not be an issue here, at least externally that is.  The key will be to ensure a balance between loaning capital and obtaining member investments as well.

Given the Trust does not need to make a profit themselves, they can clearly divert efforts into developing the property and supporting the leaseholder as needed, so I think this actually does benefit the club longer term.  Given the trend in recent years it has confused me as to why nobody has sought to purchase the ground, the Council would sell their own office chairs right now.

PaulD - might need to go dust off that 2007 proposal :-)  Ad the Oasis is still looking unlikely to ever get developed................


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 13:29:00
This is exactly the sort of thing the Trust should be looking to do, stage one of a long term plan to secure the club.  With the possible yield on investment I would have a guess that funding would not be an issue here, at least externally that is.  The key will be to ensure a balance between loaning capital and obtaining member investments as well.

Given the Trust does not need to make a profit themselves, they can clearly divert efforts into developing the property and supporting the leaseholder as needed, so I think this actually does benefit the club longer term.  Given the trend in recent years it has confused me as to why nobody has sought to purchase the ground, the Council would sell their own office chairs right now.
Spot on, on all points Rob. Exactly what the Trust should be doing. That and sorting out their 48,000 websites as horlock said.

PaulD - might need to go dust off that 2007 proposal :-)  Ad the Oasis is still looking unlikely to ever get developed................
The current incumbents should still have copies. It's a sad indictment on the lack of progress in the Town over the past decade that much of that proposal and the surrounding arguments would still be directly relevant today.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Summerof69 on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 14:53:55
Here's the AGM downloadable pack...

http://truststfc.tv/trust-stfc-agm-the-full-downloadable-information-pack/


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 15:15:22
This is exactly the sort of thing the Trust should be looking to do, stage one of a long term plan to secure the club.  With the possible yield on investment I would have a guess that funding would not be an issue here, at least externally that is.  The key will be to ensure a balance between loaning capital and obtaining member investments as well.

Given the Trust does not need to make a profit themselves, they can clearly divert efforts into developing the property and supporting the leaseholder as needed, so I think this actually does benefit the club longer term.  Given the trend in recent years it has confused me as to why nobody has sought to purchase the ground, the Council would sell their own office chairs right now.

PaulD - might need to go dust off that 2007 proposal :-)  Ad the Oasis is still looking unlikely to ever get developed................

There's your elephant in the room.  SBC are minded to cash in on this asset, but must give the community first dibs before flogging to a developer.

This begs the question....does the fan base have sufficient fight to keep whatever remains of the club at the CG.  My own gut feeling is no it doesn't.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 15:27:03
There's your elephant in the room.  SBC are minded to cash in on this asset, but must give the community first dibs before flogging to a developer.

This begs the question....does the fan base have sufficient fight to keep whatever remains of the club at the CG.  My own gut feeling is no it doesn't.

Probably not, but I guess that would be our own fault. These things are not a spectator sport


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 15:40:49
This begs the question....does the fan base have sufficient fight to keep whatever remains of the club at the CG.  My own gut feeling is no it doesn't.
Which presupposes that someone's looking to move it? Of which there is precisely no indication whatever is there?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 15:51:59
Which presupposes that someone's looking to move it? Of which there is precisely no indication whatever is there?

SBC are getting rid of the assets owned in a sense by the people of Swindon. Selling the family silver.

Now if as appears to be the case the decision to sell the CG has been taken, if the Trust doesn't buy it sharks will. Then the club is fucked, it's as straightforward as that. At least we have an option, which has not been the case at a number of clubs.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 16:03:58
SBC are getting rid of the assets owned in a sense by the people of Swindon. Selling the family silver.

Now if as appears to be the case the decision to sell the CG has been taken, if the Trust doesn't buy it sharks will. Then the club is fucked, it's as straightforward as that. At least we have an option, which has not been the case at a number of clubs.
Completely agree with all that. The Trust has to buy it, or we are wide open to asset strippers of a kind that will make Jed look benign


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: theakston2k on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 18:15:11
Completely agree with all that. The Trust has to buy it, or we are wide open to asset strippers of a kind that will make Jed look benign
Which was precisely my point earlier, if the Trust doesn't 'step up' then I can't help but feel we could be in all kinds of trouble.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: tans on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 18:55:14
Rogers on current squad: "I think we all hope we're going to stay up but we know we're not going to"


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 19:12:10
Rogers on current squad: "I think we all hope we're going to stay up but we know we're not going to"

Don, in case anyone else did the same as me and presumed Anton had bizarrely shown up to the Trust AGM.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Pax Romana on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 19:41:25
Not sure I understand this "spend £1.1m then rent out for £200k and make 18%"

Is this assuming that Power will pay £200k plus all the running costs, council tax, insurance, stewarding, policing, maintenance etc.? 


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 19:47:27
Well, he does now. A change of landlord makes no difference.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FrigbyDaser on Thursday, March 16, 2017, 22:30:19
Well, he does now. A change of landlord makes no difference.

Danger would be that Power plays the Trust off against the fans. e.g. I'm not buying players because the Trust won't reduce their rent. Potential conflicts need to be considered carefully.

I also wouldn't trust him not to screw us over in the future on training ground rent in return...something he'll probably do anyway for years to come, long after he's gone.



Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Sippo on Friday, March 17, 2017, 06:42:55
Looking at the tweets from last night, I would say the trust don't trust Power and reckon this whole saga could get messy.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Friday, March 17, 2017, 07:52:01
I found the tweets a bit hard to get the gist of tone wise.

It seemed to me the Trust were saying give Power the chance to sort things out. Here is what we, the fan backed trust, would like to happen... (e.g. transparency on accounts, etc).

In the meantime here is what we'd like to do regardless....(atmosphere, CG ground purchase, etc).
---
Anyone go care to comment?

At first I thought there was going to be a bit more of an aggressive stance taken. But given the lack of information out the club I guess it would have been a foolish opening stance really, why knacker any potential future relationship before its had a chance.

Ball is in Power's court and I suspect a lack of engagement will follow.
-----


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Sippo on Friday, March 17, 2017, 07:58:36
We will see what unfolds.

If Power is the bad man in all of this, then surely he would also make a bid for the CG? That is a very valuable source of income.


Title: Re: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Benzel on Friday, March 17, 2017, 08:15:51
Don, in case anyone else did the same as me and presumed Anton had bizarrely shown up to the Trust AGM.
That'd be Rodgers

Sent from my SM-G930F


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Private Fraser on Friday, March 17, 2017, 09:01:28
I found the tweets a bit hard to get the gist of tone wise.

It seemed to me the Trust were saying give Power the chance to sort things out. Here is what we, the fan backed trust, would like to happen... (e.g. transparency on accounts, etc).

In the meantime here is what we'd like to do regardless....(atmosphere, CG ground purchase, etc).
---
Anyone go care to comment?

At first I thought there was going to be a bit more of an aggressive stance taken. But given the lack of information out the club I guess it would have been a foolish opening stance really, why knacker any potential future relationship before its had a chance.

Ball is in Power's court and I suspect a lack of engagement will follow.
-----


I went along.  You are pretty much spot on, really.

The Trust's line was to try to engage with Power (no direct contact thus far) and to encourage him to improve communication with the fan base (more transparency, publish full accounts, etc).  All good sensible stuff but communication is a two-way thing and, if Power won't engage, nothing much is going to happen IMO.  The Trust seem serious about trying to buy the CG but not much detail given about how the money would be raised.  They have put a lot of info on their website but I haven't had time to look for it yet. [Edit - Here's a link to it: http://truststfc.tv/trust-stfc-agm-the-full-downloadable-information-pack/ ]

Probably around 60 - 70 people there.  So unlikely to cause Power any sleepless nights.  Trust needs to grow in size and strength.  


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 17, 2017, 09:09:30
We will see what unfolds.

If Power is the bad man in all of this, then surely he would also make a bid for the CG? That is a very valuable source of income.

Hence the ACV designation giving the Trust first dibs, I assume that if they can raise the money to meet the Councils valuation then Power will be erm.... Powerless to stop them buying it.

In terms of the wider outcomes should the Trust proceed and buy the ground the issue almost becomes one of Mutually Assured Destruction, if the Trust own the ground they need the clubs rent to get their money back, however likewise if the fans have clubbed together to buy the ground it would be commercial suicide for Power to fuck them around whilst his core consumer base have their hard earned tied up in the ground as that would almost guarantee the fans walking away? It nothing else it will force Power to the table one way or the other.

I still think that its a good idea, dependent upon the Trust managing to get enough fans to contribute to get a broad investment in the project, if it transpires that most of the money comes from a few individuals that would concern me greatly as they would essentially control our destiny to a degree (and investors tend to either want interest or the money back) and never underestimate the ability of voluntary organisations to start a fight in an empty room, especially once money and MBE chasing is involved.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Friday, March 17, 2017, 09:24:20
I went along.  You are pretty much spot on, really.

The Trust's line was to try to engage with Power (no direct contact thus far) and to encourage him to improve communication with the fan base (more transparency, publish full accounts, etc).  All good sensible stuff but communication is a two-way thing and, if Power won't engage, nothing much is going to happen IMO.  The Trust seem serious about trying to buy the CG but not much detail given about how the money would be raised.  They have put a lot of info on their website but I haven't had time to look for it yet. [Edit - Here's a link to it: http://truststfc.tv/trust-stfc-agm-the-full-downloadable-information-pack/ ]

Probably around 60 - 70 people there.  So unlikely to cause Power any sleepless nights.  Trust needs to grow in size and strength.  

The info pack is an interesting read, some good ideas in there on how the money could be raised.

And I may have missed something, but Sir Andrew Black???


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FreddySTFC! on Friday, March 17, 2017, 09:56:03
The info pack is an interesting read, some good ideas in there on how the money could be raised.

And I may have missed something, but Sir Andrew Black???
Talking of Black have any of the Twitterati on here asked him directly what the situation is with regards to the money owed to him & how it becomes payable? It seems to be a bit of a grey area on here as I've seen a few different scenarios that have been talked of. I'm wondering how forthcoming he would be with a response as he's long since out of here & may well wish to divulge the answer if somebody were to ask the question.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: theakston2k on Friday, March 17, 2017, 12:47:26
Hence the ACV designation giving the Trust first dibs, I assume that if they can raise the money to meet the Councils valuation then Power will be erm.... Powerless to stop them buying it.

In terms of the wider outcomes should the Trust proceed and buy the ground the issue almost becomes one of Mutually Assured Destruction, if the Trust own the ground they need the clubs rent to get their money back, however likewise if the fans have clubbed together to buy the ground it would be commercial suicide for Power to fuck them around whilst his core consumer base have their hard earned tied up in the ground as that would almost guarantee the fans walking away? It nothing else it will force Power to the table one way or the other.

I still think that its a good idea, dependent upon the Trust managing to get enough fans to contribute to get a broad investment in the project, if it transpires that most of the money comes from a few individuals that would concern me greatly as they would essentially control our destiny to a degree (and investors tend to either want interest or the money back) and never underestimate the ability of voluntary organisations to start a fight in an empty room, especially once money and MBE chasing is involved.
In my opinion it's absolutely key that the club is on board and engaged if the Trust does proceed with buying the ground otherwise it could end being a pointless exercise. If the club shows no interest then we could easily end up in Coventry playing at Northampton situation where the club just go elsewhere as one thing Power is is stubborn and I don't think he'd have any hesitation ditching the County Ground if he pushed into a corner.
If the club engage then I would happily donate but a the risk of a ground without a club wouldn't be something I would put any money towards.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Bogus Dave on Friday, March 17, 2017, 12:55:19
Read the PDF, seems quite clear the trust don't see any benefit in turning power into the enemy, but acknowledge his faults and show a willingness and need to work together for the benefit of the club. I've just signed up and donating more than I probably can afford, because it seems like something
Worthwhile. I can only hope other fans see it the same way


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Nemo on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:03:11
Read the PDF, seems quite clear the trust don't see any benefit in turning power into the enemy, but acknowledge his faults and show a willingness and need to work together for the benefit of the club. I've just signed up and donating more than I probably can afford, because it seems like something
Worthwhile. I can only hope other fans see it the same way

I'd agree with that. I've generally supported the aims of the Trust in the past without really getting involved, didn't contribute the Stratton Bank fund because I couldn't really see the point covering an empty stand, but buying the CG is a genuinely excellent idea and, if the council are to sell, the Trust are better owners than anyone else who would bid. I'll be contributing.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:03:43
In my opinion it's absolutely key that the club is on board and engaged if the Trust does proceed with buying the ground otherwise it could end being a pointless exercise. If the club shows no interest then we could easily end up in Coventry playing at Northampton situation where the club just go elsewhere as one thing Power is is stubborn and I don't think he'd have any hesitation ditching the County Ground if he pushed into a corner.
If the club engage then I would happily donate but a the risk of a ground without a club wouldn't be something I would put any money towards.

Its all a bit of a grey area, as the thing we don't know is how much notice the club have to give the ground owners that they wish to terminate the lease?

Likewise giving it a bit more thought its entirely in Powers interest to remain ambivalent about the whole thing for now, as that would place doubts in the Trusts mind, allow the ACV created period to lapse and then he could step in and buy it?

The point I was making is a) if fans have put their hands in their pockets and Power decides to sod off its going to immediately alienate the fanbase even more as they will have a direct financial interest and I suspect depart the club in droves? and b) the Trust would only need the club to occupy for 4ish years and the money is made back, remembering that the club are on a full repairing lease so the Trust don't actually need to spend a penny in that time without commitment from the club? Could the club either find somewhere to play locally in that period or secondly find some land, design a stadium, get planning permission, raise the finance and then build the ground in that period?

I'd agree with that. I've generally supported the aims of the Trust in the past without really getting involved, didn't contribute the Stratton Bank fund because I couldn't really see the point covering an empty stand, but buying the CG is a genuinely excellent idea and, if the council are to sell, the Trust are better owners than anyone else who would bid. I'll be contributing.

+1


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Private Fraser on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:09:20
They're currently on a monthly rolling lease but, presumably, if the Trust (or whoever) were to take ownership of the CG, they would want to negotiate a longer lease with sensible 'get out' clauses.

Currently, Power's options for taking the Club elsewhere are quite limited aren't they?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:16:48
Horlock, you are assuming the Trust would seek to keep the contract the same. They could for example reduce the rent and not look for much ROI. Depends who end up funding it I suppose

(apologies if they said this was the case in the info)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:29:11
Horlock, you are assuming the Trust would seek to keep the contract the same. They could for example reduce the rent and not look for much ROI. Depends who end up funding it I suppose

(apologies if they said this was the case in the info)

They might well do that and it would make sense with a co-operative tenant, I would expect they would want the club signed up for a period of time to make such a commitment.

That's where my concern starts however is that if the purchase ends up being funded by a few wealthy individuals it rather ceases to be a 'fans initiative'?


Currently, Power's options for taking the Club elsewhere are quite limited aren't they?
 

Possibly so, although with the way we are playing at the moment the local rec could suffice in a few years time?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Power to people on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:31:41
Don't I remember a club like Brentford's ground was fan owned or something and the owner basically forced through a sale.

I'm surprised the council are willing, as £1m straight up compared to a regular £200k income a year -but then this is SBC and as someone else has said they would sell their granny if they thought they could get a few quid.

I would hope that any purchase will include covenants so if x person put's up 40% but is happy for it to be trust owned they are unable to call in debt and thus become the new majority owner and force a sale.   Would want to see TrustSTFC hold a 50% + 1 share so they are majority holders and cant be forced to do anything members do not agree on


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Private Fraser on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:37:00


Possibly so, although with the way we are playing at the moment the local rec could suffice in a few years time?
,

Yes.  If Reg's doom-mongering is to be believed, it won't take long.  :)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:41:51
Don't I remember a club like Brentford's ground was fan owned or something and the owner basically forced through a sale.

I'm surprised the council are willing, as £1m straight up compared to a regular £200k income a year -but then this is SBC and as someone else has said they would sell their granny if they thought they could get a few quid.

I would hope that any purchase will include covenants so if x person put's up 40% but is happy for it to be trust owned they are unable to call in debt and thus become the new majority owner and force a sale.   Would want to see TrustSTFC hold a 50% + 1 share so they are majority holders and cant be forced to do anything members do not agree on


I think Griffin Park was fan owned, but I think the club own it now? I only know this as I had some (very limited) involvement on behalf of a 3rd party regarding the planning application for their new ground, which includes a shed load of new housing and some rather wide ranging assumptions to support the land assembly process for the site.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: ghanimah on Friday, March 17, 2017, 15:27:53
Don't I remember a club like Brentford's ground was fan owned or something and the owner basically forced through a sale.



Chelsea is a better example of where we could be, the freehold of Stamford Bridge and the naming rights of "Chelsea FC" is held by the fans via Chelsea Pitch Owners. The fans then lease this back to the club at a peppercorn rent. The club obviously is in very lucrative real prime estate territory which could have been simply sold off for development.

However the fans' arrangement has prevented a multi-billionaire Russian from relocating the club away from the Bridge.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: woolster on Friday, March 17, 2017, 15:39:09
Horlock, you are assuming the Trust would seek to keep the contract the same. They could for example reduce the rent and not look for much ROI. Depends who end up funding it I suppose

(apologies if they said this was the case in the info)
if Power wants to soil OUR (i'm gonna invest) pitch with his toilet set up he can ruddy well pay double the rent :)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RedRag on Friday, March 17, 2017, 16:08:18
The terms of any SBC deal will be critical to the value.

A brief period of SBC vulnerability may be presenting an opportunity.

I fear that STFC (read Power at present) could blackmail the Trust into reducing / foresaking rent by threatening to liquidate the club (and thereby securing the club owners' own profits or debts).  Nevertheless the Club would be unlikely to have a Ground meeting League standards (if we remain in the League) available elsewhere so would have some sort of commercial tie to the CG.

Nevertheless it would put the Trust in the picture as long as STFC was based at the CG.  It would prevent either the Club's owners or a new Third party being able to mess STFC about.  It may even allow a share of a future planning gain (if related to a ground move)  to be rolled over.  My suspicion is that any future "buyback" by SBC would involve it retaining a hefty planning gain for itself ("overage") but would that be 100% of a planning gain and what other terms would apply such as an option for SBC to re-purchase.  One million might either be cheap or expensive depending on terms.

The Goddard Estate may in theory be capable of releasing the covenant affecting the CG if there were an opportunity to share in a planning gain but others are far more knowledgeable on those arrangements.  Any potential gain vesting in the Trust would on the face of it be very re-assuring.

Are the more detailed proposed terms of any SBC/Trust deal out there?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Friday, March 17, 2017, 23:42:02
I'll be honest, I've not read all the posts on this thread, some but not all.

I see the CG, ownership thereof and it's future development in a similar vein as the mechanics institute. It is and always will be a white elephant. The council own it but cannot afford to or want to spend money on it. The football club operate from it but like a house tenant, council or private, makes no difference, maintain its upkeep to keep the owners off their backs.

No one in their right mind would pump a penny into it without full ownership and having carte blanch to do what they wish, within planning laws & regs of course. Then there is the sporting covenant to muddy the waters.

If there was an individual or company with enough money to buy from the council the CG, car park, cricket club and sports field behind the bank, develop the whole site to include the football stadium and other things to make the site viable 24/7- 365 then the future would look decidedly rosey. Then you wake up and find out we're in the fourth division.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FreddySTFC! on Monday, March 20, 2017, 21:33:03
Summer of 69. When is the media push with regards to this going to begin? Has there been much interest in terms of fan investment yet? Has the crowdfunding website been launched or is due to be?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Monday, March 20, 2017, 22:37:08
i asked earlier:

@batch_2001 The vehicle for the purchase will be community shares, funds and backing needed now to reflect support. Details to follow soon.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Monday, March 20, 2017, 23:32:23
Summer of 69. When is the media push with regards to this going to begin?
TBF, they've had huge chunks of the Adver for two days last week, and it's been all over social media and BBC. Think the media push has already begun.

As horlock pointed out though, it might also help if the Trust could work out which of the 3 truststfc websites we're supposed to look at - .com, .co.uk, .tv all currently have different content, some more current than others. At least get the old ones to redirect to the current one?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Sippo on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 06:37:23
As horlock pointed out though, it might also help if the Trust could work out which of the 3 truststfc websites we're supposed to look at - .com, .co.uk, .tv all currently have different content, some more current than others. At least get the old ones to redirect to the current one?

Which is literally a two minute job for each domain.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: tans on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 07:01:45
Do we still have the Loud and Proud Lovelies on the website?


Title: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 07:53:48
to be honest the trust website is a bit confusing. dipped in earlier (using mobile)  and find it a bit hard to a) find all the membership package options and b) work out which funding money goes where..e.g. assumed RAF would be used for ground purchase but it isn't and I've no interest in contributing to a stratton bank roof.

i get that people have jobs and it's not easy to spend time on it, just a bit of feedback.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: REDBUCK on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 08:30:18
So have you sent the critical feed back to the trust?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Private Fraser on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 08:58:34
For anyone else who is interested, the.tv website has two clear links at the top of the home page which direct you to details of the Red Army Fund and the projects (in addition to the Stratton Bank Roof) that contributions currently go towards. 

I would include a screenshot but I don't know how to upload one here.   :-[


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 09:11:16
Quote from: REDBUCK
So have you sent the critical feed back to the trust?
not yet, will do later from home


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FreddySTFC! on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 09:24:43
TBF, they've had huge chunks of the Adver for two days last week, and it's been all over social media and BBC. Think the media push has already begun.

As horlock pointed out though, it might also help if the Trust could work out which of the 3 truststfc websites we're supposed to look at - .com, .co.uk, .tv all currently have different content, some more current than others. At least get the old ones to redirect to the current one?
I live in Wales so don't read the Adver & I'm not on FB/Twitter so rely on this site more than anything these days. Just thought this thread was strangely quiet. Was expecting daily dialogue on here to be honest. A running total would be nice as time progresses so we can see how much has been raised & perhaps gauge how realistic a process this whole thing is.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 09:53:03
I live in Wales so don't read the Adver & I'm not on FB/Twitter so rely on this site more than anything these days. Just thought this thread was strangely quiet.
So it's not so much a media campaign as a TEF-specific hype campaign you were looking for? :)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: wheretherealredsare on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 09:56:25
So it's not so much a media campaign as a TEF-specific hype campaign you were looking for? :)

Shouldn't that be a Taff specific hype campaign?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FreddySTFC! on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 09:58:21
So it's not so much a media campaign as a TEF-specific hype campaign you were looking for? :)
Pretty much yeah  :D


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 10:02:53
I live in Wales so don't read the Adver & I'm not on FB/Twitter so rely on this site more than anything these days. Just thought this thread was strangely quiet. Was expecting daily dialogue on here to be honest. A running total would be nice as time progresses so we can see how much has been raised & perhaps gauge how realistic a process this whole thing is.

I think it's quiet as it's a bit difficult to get excited about. We've been told the Trust have been in talks on this for 2 years, with SBC and some contact from the club.

Very definition of between a rock and a hard place.

A formal offer was apparently turned down. 2 years of negotiating is quite a long time...apparently about the time the Tory Brexiteers, will have negotiated England and Wales' out of the EU.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: THATCHAMRED on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 12:16:08
Just to rub salt into the wounds I saw on the south news that an ex chairman of Disney is in talks to buy Portsmouth.

Why couldn't he have chosen us! :cry:


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Ginginho on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 12:20:10
We are twinned with Disneyland after all.

Takes the Mickey.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Johnny Reeves on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 14:08:41
What happens if the trust get to own the ground then Mr Power decides not to pay the rent,STFC apocalypse.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 15:18:26
We are twinned with Disneyland after all.

Takes the Mickey.

That was a one year deal, long since ended.  Was with Disneyworld, involved a small plaque in Epcot dedicated to Swindon.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Ginginho on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 15:24:23
Swindon's better anyway.
I bet Disneyworld doesn't have 5 Greggs or pop up brothels.

Swindon 1
Disneyworld 0


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 15:37:29
I do feel that the Trust kind of need to start a fresh here.

The whole thing kind of seems all over the place to me at the moment.  When you click on the links it takes you to pages to either build a roof  or clean up the stratton bank etc. This should be a clear vision of what is needed no confusion.

On a separate note was a bit miffed when at the meeting last week how when someone suggested these meetings could be held at the CG hotel after a game they turned their noses up at this.

I know it was a while back but the Trust gained alot of new numbers back in the orange hat days by holding these meetings at places like the CG and the Moonies


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 16:11:29
I do feel that the Trust kind of need to start a fresh here.

The whole thing kind of seems all over the place to me at the moment.  When you click on the links it takes you to pages to either build a roof  or clean up the stratton bank etc. This should be a clear vision of what is needed no confusion.


I think this is all perhaps down to the plethora of websites and stories, if you are not aware that they are the same group its like the Judea Peoples Front.

I wonder did the Adver writing about this catch them off their guard a bit as it seems to have got quite big without any coherent plan to move forward in terms of fundraising or supporter engagement?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Nemo on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 16:19:55
I do agree with DRS to a point, I've signed up for membership to show support but I'd contribute more to a clearer, specialised fund to buy the CG. Not, with the best will make the world, to fund some more streamers next time we play Oxford (presumably in the cup...)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 17:03:53
I do feel that the Trust kind of need to start a fresh here.

The whole thing kind of seems all over the place to me at the moment.  When you click on the links it takes you to pages to either build a roof  or clean up the stratton bank etc. This should be a clear vision of what is needed no confusion.

On a separate note was a bit miffed when at the meeting last week how when someone suggested these meetings could be held at the CG hotel after a game they turned their noses up at this.

I know it was a while back but the Trust gained alot of new numbers back in the orange hat days by holding these meetings at places like the CG and the Moonies

You are spot on.  The document they provided suffered from this as well, lots of different areas they want to focus on, which is fine for the wider group, but they really have a chance with CG of having a key project that nearly everyone could get behind.

They should carry on in committee doing the other stuff and make this the single central plank they work on externally now.  Ideas/proposals for future development are great a getting interest, so maybe more than on option being discussed here, but the main thrust has to simply be Fan based ownership of the CG, full stop.  Each meeting is then about how to progress that plan.  What is the target for funding? what means are available, assess them and target the chosen methodology, by what timeline, how do we propose to negotiate with the Council, initial 1-2 year plan post purchase and so on.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 17:14:24
You are spot on.  The document they provided suffered from this as well, lots of different areas they want to focus on, which is fine for the wider group, but they really have a chance with CG of having a key project that nearly everyone could get behind.

They should carry on in committee doing the other stuff and make this the single central plank they work on externally now.  Ideas/proposals for future development are great a getting interest, so maybe more than on option being discussed here, but the main thrust has to simply be Fan based ownership of the CG, full stop.  Each meeting is then about how to progress that plan.  What is the target for funding? what means are available, assess them and target the chosen methodology, by what timeline, how do we propose to negotiate with the Council, initial 1-2 year plan post purchase and so on.

Even at this stage either a) having a sign up on the website that if you are interested in becoming involved/contributing to the CG purchase project give us an email address and we will be in touch with a prospectus when launched. or b) a stand alone campaign/website (under the Trust banner and after sorting out the other web addresses) that details the project. I assume that if the ground were bought it would be under a subsidiary of the Trust to limit liability so that could provide the umbrella for all that?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 18:04:53
I do feel that the Trust kind of need to start a fresh here.

The whole thing kind of seems all over the place to me at the moment.  When you click on the links it takes you to pages to either build a roof  or clean up the stratton bank etc. This should be a clear vision of what is needed no confusion.

On a separate note was a bit miffed when at the meeting last week how when someone suggested these meetings could be held at the CG hotel after a game they turned their noses up at this.

I know it was a while back but the Trust gained alot of new numbers back in the orange hat days by holding these meetings at places like the CG and the Moonies

Yep they did. Lunchtime meetings before games on a Saturday as well. When people will most likely be able to come along and then head straight to the game afterwards. Makes sense really.

I haven't signed up to anything at the moment. I like the idea but for me there still isn't enough information. Also it needs a lot of support. At the moment I'm not seeing a lot of people getting involved. Seems like a bit of a pointless investment if the numbers aren't going to be there. If it's promoted well and clear visions are made i can see there being a lot more support for it though.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Hoboken on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 07:01:39
Yep they did. Lunchtime meetings before games on a Saturday as well. When people will most likely be able to come along and then head straight to the game afterwards. Makes sense really.

I haven't signed up to anything at the moment. I like the idea but for me there still isn't enough information. Also it needs a lot of support. At the moment I'm not seeing a lot of people getting involved. Seems like a bit of a pointless investment if the numbers aren't going to be there. If it's promoted well and clear visions are made i can see there being a lot more support for it though.

I know what you mean, but all you can do is sign up yourself and hope that we gain momentum. You can always cancel if nothing comes of it.


Title: Re: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Only Me on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 07:18:04
I live in Wales so don't read the Adver & I'm not on FB/Twitter so rely on this site more than anything these days. Just thought this thread was strangely quiet. Was expecting daily dialogue on here to be honest. A running total would be nice as time progresses so we can see how much has been raised & perhaps gauge how realistic a process this whole thing is.
The advert is available online and on an app. That's what I do to keep up with what is happening in my town 🖒

Sent from my SM-G935F


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: ronnie21 on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 09:00:38
I do feel that the Trust kind of need to start a fresh here.

The whole thing kind of seems all over the place to me at the moment.  When you click on the links it takes you to pages to either build a roof  or clean up the stratton bank etc. This should be a clear vision of what is needed no confusion.

On a separate note was a bit miffed when at the meeting last week how when someone suggested these meetings could be held at the CG hotel after a game they turned their noses up at this.

I know it was a while back but the Trust gained alot of new numbers back in the orange hat days by holding these meetings at places like the CG and the Moonies
Dean you are right, I went to a couple of Trust meetings and although the people running it come over as well educated and looking for the best I came away with the feeling that they looked down on the ordinary Joe on the street!  Just my opinion on how it came across to me!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Red Frog on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 13:37:15
Seems like a lot of people have found reasons not to sign up to the Trust, which is a shame. A club our size should have a lot more than a couple of hundred paying members. As the Trust has said, Grimsby managed to raise £400k from supporters. I think we're pretty lucky to have such an engaged and proactive Trust. We're not going anywhere if apathy is what defines our fanbase.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:09:21
Seems like a lot of people have found reasons not to sign up to the Trust, which is a shame. A club our size should have a lot more than a couple of hundred paying members. As the Trust has said, Grimsby managed to raise £400k from supporters. I think we're pretty lucky to have such an engaged and proactive Trust. We're not going anywhere if apathy is what defines our fanbase.
Not sure you can blame the fans.It isn't apathy it's not knowing what is going on.An example is this, i was at the last meeting and in the space of 2 hours we discussed donating to the following

Red Army Fund
JayBoxes flags and banners
The Supporters Club

What i am saying is come out with a plan. Tell us what the money is for 


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:20:26
Not sure you can blame the fans.It isn't apathy it's not knowing what is going on.An example is this, i was at the last meeting and in the space of 2 hours we discussed donating to the following

Red Army Fund
JayBoxes flags and banners
The Supporters Club

What i am saying is come out with a plan. Tell us what the money is for 
Sounds like a lack of focus. Agree with whoever it was who said if the Trust are serious about the ground buyout, they should just focus on that.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Red Frog on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:30:20
Not sure you can blame the fans.It isn't apathy it's not knowing what is going on.An example is this, i was at the last meeting and in the space of 2 hours we discussed donating to the following

Red Army Fund
JayBoxes flags and banners
The Supporters Club

What i am saying is come out with a plan. Tell us what the money is for  

Doesn't sound too unclear to me. These are three different organisations. Fund who you like. The Trust is happy to promote the others, but they also produced a very clear manifesto in the AGM pack - did you read that?

I think withholding any investment until they've met everyone's very high standards just seems like a clever way of expressing apathy. Pay up, speak up and/or get involved if you don't like what they're doing. I think they're getting better and better.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:32:51
Doesn't sound too unclear to me. These are three different organisations. Fund who you like. The Trust is happy to promote the others, but they also produced a very clear manifesto in the AGM pack - did you read that?

I think withholding any investment until they've met everyone's very high standards just seems like a clever way of expressing apathy. Pay up, speak up and/or get involved if you don't like what they're doing. I think they're getting better and better.
Ok simple question. I pay £20 right now into the red army fund, what is it going towards?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:39:15
Ok simple question. I pay £20 right now into the red army fund, what is it going towards?

Exactly my point from earlier. I had to tweet Trust/Steve M to find out if this was what would now be used towards the ground purchase  - it isn't.

As far as I can see it still goes towards the Stratton Bank and other non-descript improvements. I don't want to contribute to a Stratton Bank roof. I think its pointless. That doesn't mean I am not in on the ground purchase.

I've not (re)joined the trust because I couldn't find the page that told me the membership options and costs. I think its hidden behind the free associate member signup.

In fact, the ground purchase info isn't obvious at all -even as a "watch this space", so any goodwill of the soft launch is going to be lost if not addressed soon.
=============
Its criticism, but not of the nasty kind. Just pointing it out so it can be worked on. The Trust must monitor social media and report back on things?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:43:20
Doesn't sound too unclear to me. These are three different organisations. Fund who you like. The Trust is happy to promote the others, but they also produced a very clear manifesto in the AGM pack - did you read that?

I think withholding any investment until they've met everyone's very high standards just seems like a clever way of expressing apathy. Pay up, speak up and/or get involved if you don't like what they're doing. I think they're getting better and better.
The Trust have set themselves a hugely ambitious target (and it's a really good one and I hope everyone gets behind it). They need to do all they can to engage as many people as possible. If a lack of clarity around their aims is a stumbling block for some who would otherwise be genuinely well disposed towards this venture, they need to work out how to remove those impediments. DRS isn't apathetic, and he's not one to make excuses for the sake of it and he's not the only one to comment on a lack of clarity - the 3 different websites doesn't help for a start.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Tails on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:47:43
I would happily join and part ways with money for the CG, good money too, but all I can see from the RAF site is to build the bank roof.

Come on Trust fellas!! We want to help!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 14:50:23
The last couple of pages alone of thjs thread are enough to convince me that the trust shouldn't be allowed to own the county ground.
That's without going into the ridiculously low price for the site that would be cheating the non football fans of the town.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 15:27:14
The last couple of pages alone of thjs thread are enough to convince me that the trust shouldn't be allowed to own the county ground.
Because two or three people aren't clear about the initial stages of the launch? Bit sweeping?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 16:10:59
Because two or three people aren't clear about the initial stages of the launch? Bit sweeping?

It's not just that though is it?
If it was then yes it would be a " Bit sweeping"


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 16:41:05
It's not just that though is it?
If it was then yes it would be a " Bit sweeping"
I dunno, you were the one that thought that something in the past couple of pages was so damning that the Trust should not be allowed to buy the CG. All I could see over the past couple of pages was some (quite reasonable) complaints about a lack of clarity in the initial launch. What is it then that the Trust have done that is so wrong?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 16:51:51
I mentioned about a singular focus.

I think the pack handed out was a glowing example of the problem they'll face - a lot of good stuff, rambled on a bit with opinion (which most would agree with) but the thrust of the CG gets lost in that.

If this was the launch of an initiative for the CG, then I would say they NEED to take a decisions swiftly to pause everything else.  For no other reason than trying to spin that many plates will create very real delays with this significant and worthy effort.  Arriba could be right - if they try and do everything, eventually they'll lose focus on the CG and tricky obstacles will be magnified (because they will happen).  Anything that shows people on the fence that they can't handle the wider "manifesto" will be reason enough that it shouldn't be them taking on this great cause.

That means pushing some worthy causes to the back for a while, but it must be done.  Pretty significant business people with their main focus directed on a ground purchase and following development have failed miserably.  How a volunteer group can hope to improve on that without dedicating all their free time to this would be beyond me.  You'd have to be a crazy egomaniac to think you could do it all without dropping some plates.

The Trust could probably do with two websites in total, one for their general well being and one for the CG purchase.  The former should, for now, push heavily towards the latter as well.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 16:58:03
Think you're spot on there Rob


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Red Frog on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 17:01:16
All just looks like typical forum carping to me. Moan at the board, moan at the team, moan at the Trust. But do anything about it? Me?

Who was making these points at the meeting? Rob T apparently. Anyone else? Lots of the reasons for not backing the Trust look like minor quibbles, rather than actively opposing it. It will fold quickly enough if the fans don't care about it.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 17:09:05
I didn't manage to make the meeting, 4,000 miles and the Atlantic ocean got a little in the way.

The Trust's most successful period was when everyone rallied around a single cause - get Diamandis Out!  I joined as a result, also helping come up with a budget and fixit proposal for a CG development to try and show the club what could be achieved.

They won't succeed if they try it all.

I want them to succeed.

Getting Diamandis out probably worked, but wasn't really a positive campaign.  Buying the ground, beyond buying the club, is the single biggest and most positive action they could ever take.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 17:18:06
It will fold quickly enough if the fans don't care about it.

 I just don't think the fans' heart is in it any longer.  

SBC are clearly offering first dibs on the sale of the CG to the Trust as they have to, much like the running of Lydiard.

If the Trust can't come up with the lucre then it will be offered out to developers. The club only has a short lease agreement, and Power could operate any rump STFC in non league at Supermarine, with a bit of an upgrade.





Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Private Fraser on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 18:15:45
I just don't think the fans' heart is in it any longer.  

SBC are clearly offering first dibs on the sale of the CG to the Trust as they have to, much like the running of Lydiard.

If the Trust can't come up with the lucre then it will be offered out to developers. The club only has a short lease agreement, and Power could operate any rump STFC in non league at Supermarine, with a bit of an upgrade.





Wow!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 19:54:29
I dunno, you were the one that thought that something in the past couple of pages was so damning that the Trust should not be allowed to buy the CG. All I could see over the past couple of pages was some (quite reasonable) complaints about a lack of clarity in the initial launch. What is it then that the Trust have done that is so wrong?


The trust haven't done anything wrong as such, it's just that i don't think they've done enough right to justify being gifted the county ground at the current time. It's a huge responsibility and i think they have some way to go yet.

I also worry that even if they secured​ the ground there inevitably would be in fighting within the trust committee at some point. There would be major issues between the trust and the owner of the club too. I can't see it working harmoniously but i am a pessimist by nature.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 20:19:29
Fair enough, all valid concerns. But if the council are looking to sell the CG, then the alternatives to the Trust are considerably less appealing - asset strippers or only ever being one forced sale away from asset strippers. If the club (or separately it's owners) had owned the CG under Diamandis or when Black threw his toys out of the pram into the grateful lap of Jed, there wouldn't be a County Ground now. And probably not a club, either. So while your misgivings are understandable, if it's going anywhere I'd far rather it went to the Trust. The alternatives make Reg look cheerful :)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Mother Brown on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 21:25:50
Wow!
I agree with Reg.
The facilities at Webbs Wood stadium are better than the CG.


Title: Re:
Post by: PlymRed on Thursday, March 23, 2017, 23:01:29
I've signed up and hope that many more do as well. Agree that things could be clearer with websites etc but purchasing the ground would be fantastic.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, March 24, 2017, 10:27:03
I agree with Reg.
The facilities at Webbs Wood stadium are better than the CG.

In order to be acceptable for the Conference, the capacity would need to be brought up to about 4,500 minimum. The DRS which will need to come down for any development could be re-cycled or perhaps a bit of Nene Park might be more suitable.



Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: dogs on Friday, March 24, 2017, 10:28:01
I've signed up and hope that many more do as well. Agree that things could be clearer with websites etc but purchasing the ground would be fantastic.

Agree with that.

Signed up this morning.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Friday, March 24, 2017, 10:53:43
I've signed up and hope that many more do as well. Agree that things could be clearer with websites etc but purchasing the ground would be fantastic.

Signed up to what, membership to the trust?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RedRag on Friday, March 24, 2017, 10:54:15
Well done, PlymRed.  Me too (I think my membership had lapsed).

As Paul effectively says, an acquisition of the CG by the Trust will always be "better than the alternative".

IMO,  it is the only way in which the Trust can make a difference of real significance.

TEF is great for the fun, the information and the Happy Clapper v Robinmoaner debates (in short, the bollocks) but 5 minutes and GBP 12.00 p.a. to become a member at this point seems good value to even the surliest or the most wavering of fans.

http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk/donate/?nk=884-092d31aa3c


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 24, 2017, 11:21:46
Well done, PlymRed.  Me too (I think my membership had lapsed).

As Paul effectively says, an acquisition of the CG by the Trust will always be "better than the alternative".

IMO,  it is the only way in which the Trust can make a difference of real significance.

TEF is great for the fun, the information and the Happy Clapper v Robinmoaner debates (in short, the bollocks) but 5 minutes and GBP 12.00 p.a. to become a member at this point seems good value to even the surliest or the most wavering of fans.

http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk/donate/?nk=884-092d31aa3c

I am being grumpy again here, but that's another bloody website.... and if you click on projects ground purchase is not even mentioned and the last news story is 2015?

Come on Trust, you have a half decent journalist on board  ;), you are obviously good at designing websites yet over a week after it became public there appears to be nothing on any of the plethora of sites detailing what fans should do - a press release, a flyer anything?

I will renew my membership but if I didn't red on here I would know nothing and be very confused?

 


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Friday, March 24, 2017, 11:24:07
What I do like on that link though is the cryptic line "Mug items displayed below have been replaced by boxed metal pens" which surely must be a reaction to Sweary Tim's rant - no fackin' mugs!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, March 24, 2017, 11:29:58
What I do like on that link though is the cryptic line "Mug items displayed below have been replaced by boxed metal pens" which surely must be a reaction to Sweary Tim's rant - no fackin' mugs!

The Trust should market mugs with the SY avatar of Squires' work on it. Could be a winner.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Friday, March 24, 2017, 11:39:24
The Trust should market mugs with the SY avatar of Squires' work on it. Could be a winner.
It would have to be sold as a "Fackin Mug". I'd buy one. Although clearly they should actually be sold in twos, so there's a spare for when you throw one across the kitchen in homage to Tim's inspiring half-time team talks.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Nemo on Friday, March 24, 2017, 11:44:56
It would have to be sold as a "Fackin Mug". I'd buy one. Although clearly they should actually be sold in twos, so there's a spare for when you throw one across the kitchen in homage to Tim's inspiring half-time team talks.

You could get the full STFC afternoon tea set - four facking mugs and a "we go again" cake stand (collapsable, obviously. Not always at the desired time)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Tails on Friday, March 24, 2017, 11:53:11
That deserves a "You're Alright" Nemo. Very good


Title: Re: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: PlymRed on Friday, March 24, 2017, 12:15:38
Signed up to what, membership to the trust?
Yep, silver membership. We need as many people as possible to sign up and help. The more members the trust has, the bigger the voice and the more power it has.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Bedford Red on Friday, March 24, 2017, 12:29:01
In order to be acceptable for the Conference, the capacity would need to be brought up to about 4,500 minimum. The DRS which will need to come down for any development could be re-cycled or perhaps a bit of Nene Park might be more suitable.



Nene Park is already being demolished (see below); there won't be anything left soon.

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/argyle-memories-of-playing-at-the-demolished-nene-park/story-30173156-detail/story.html


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Friday, March 24, 2017, 12:39:06
Yep, silver membership. We need as many people as possible to sign up and help. The more members the trust has, the bigger the voice and the more power it has.

I'm holding off until I understand what money goes where
(yes I have contacted them).


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Power to people on Friday, March 24, 2017, 12:42:24
Is the money being raised towards the purchasing of the CG being ring fenced so it cannot be used on anything else (like it was when TrustSTFC used the RAF for player wages) ?

If the Trust do not managed to buy the CG what will happen to the money that was raised ?

Is there a total the Trust want to raise over how longer period, and if they do not get there, what happens, will they be willing to go into 'partnership' and perhaps form a consortium to own the CG with some wealthy individuals who are trust sympathizers.

Can fan's 'pledge' substantial donations (thinking over 3 figures) to be put in if x amount is raised

Sorry, I expected after their initial launch for this to be splashed everywhere, these are the sort of questions I'd expect to be put somewhere in the public domain with answer next to them so people can go direct to a particular site maybe and get these sort of answers (apologies if they have been answered and I've not seen it).

Maybe they have not worked everyone out yet, I'm hoping they have and just not had time to get all the info out there fully as this needs to be a success.



Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 24, 2017, 12:59:31
I'm holding off until I understand what money goes where
(yes I have contacted them).

To be honest I have just go for the £1 a month option for now until some answers are provided.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Friday, March 24, 2017, 13:18:04
yeah, that a reasonable no-risk option :)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: theakston2k on Friday, March 24, 2017, 13:19:42
Is the money being raised towards the purchasing of the CG being ring fenced so it cannot be used on anything else (like it was when TrustSTFC used the RAF for player wages) ?

If the Trust do not managed to buy the CG what will happen to the money that was raised ?

Is there a total the Trust want to raise over how longer period, and if they do not get there, what happens, will they be willing to go into 'partnership' and perhaps form a consortium to own the CG with some wealthy individuals who are trust sympathizers.

Can fan's 'pledge' substantial donations (thinking over 3 figures) to be put in if x amount is raised

Sorry, I expected after their initial launch for this to be splashed everywhere, these are the sort of questions I'd expect to be put somewhere in the public domain with answer next to them so people can go direct to a particular site maybe and get these sort of answers (apologies if they have been answered and I've not seen it).

Maybe they have not worked everyone out yet, I'm hoping they have and just not had time to get all the info out there fully as this needs to be a success.


This is largely where I am. If i donate I only want it going towards the ground project, I've no interest in donating to Jaybox's flags and streamers. And it'll surely have to be done on a pledge basis or ring fenced with a legal guarentee to return peoples money if it doesn't go ahead....


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Nemo on Friday, March 24, 2017, 14:00:20
And that concept is totally possible - Bath City used it for their bid for the club, where pledges were made on line and were not debited until it was successful (or not)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Friday, March 24, 2017, 14:31:10
This is largely where I am. If i donate I only want it going towards the ground project, I've no interest in donating to Jaybox's flags and streamers.
tbf I don't think there's any suggestion money would be going to Jay's flags and streamers, that only came into the discussion as it was apparently plugged at the Trust meeting last week under the heading of "Other Town-related good causes you might like to give money to". But there does seem to be genuine confusion as to whether any money donated now would go to buying the CG or the "Roof on the Bank" project or both?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 24, 2017, 14:32:06
And that concept is totally possible - Bath City used it for their bid for the club, where pledges were made on line and were not debited until it was successful (or not)

Doesn't most crowdfunding operate on that basis anyway, if you use one of the many sites that facilitate such a process?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, March 24, 2017, 14:38:41
This is largely where I am. If i donate I only want it going towards the ground project, I've no interest in donating to Jaybox's flags and streamers. And it'll surely have to be done on a pledge basis or ring fenced with a legal guarentee to return peoples money if it doesn't go ahead....


Agreed. Give us a targetted fund to donate to, and I'm in.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Friday, March 24, 2017, 15:11:21
as i said, not the RAF as i already asked:

@batch_2001 The vehicle for the purchase will be community shares, funds and backing needed now to reflect support. Details to follow soon.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, March 24, 2017, 15:34:42
as i said, not the RAF as i already asked:

@batch_2001 The vehicle for the purchase will be community shares, funds and backing needed now to reflect support. Details to follow soon.

That makes as little sense/is as vague as the 472 websites?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: donkey on Friday, March 24, 2017, 15:36:00
Is the Trust a registered charity? If so, there are organisations set up specifically to fund charities. Some for sport, some for large projects, some for Swindon and Wiltshire and some for anything! I think Awards for All gives money for causes with little restriction on how it's spent (obviously in line with what you told them it would be!).


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Nemo on Friday, March 24, 2017, 15:41:30
tbf I don't think there's any suggestion money would be going to Jay's flags and streamers, that only came into the discussion as it was apparently plugged at the Trust meeting last week under the heading of "Other Town-related good causes you might like to give money to". But there does seem to be genuine confusion as to whether any money donated now would go to buying the CG or the "Roof on the Bank" project or both?

As I understand it, the Oxford display was part-funded by the Red Army Fund. That may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the Trust report said as much...


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Power to people on Friday, March 24, 2017, 15:47:32
Is the Trust a registered charity? If so, there are organisations set up specifically to fund charities. Some for sport, some for large projects, some for Swindon and Wiltshire and some for anything! I think Awards for All gives money for causes with little restriction on how it's spent (obviously in line with what you told them it would be!).

Not a charity they are an IPS - Independent Provident Society if memory serves me correct


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Power to people on Friday, March 24, 2017, 15:48:23
As I understand it, the Oxford display was part-funded by the Red Army Fund. That may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the Trust report said as much...

Sounds to me as if they need to issue some clarifications - some of the guys must read this forum


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Nemo on Friday, March 24, 2017, 15:51:07
Oxford banner was part funded by the Trust and Supporters' Club - http://greatwesternreds.com/blog/2017/our-derby-day-tifo

Not saying that's neccessarily wrong (it was a very decent banner in fairness) but it's clearly a concern that it's not totally clear where the money goes.

I have signed up for bronze membership by the way, just would increase my contribution a lot for the sole purpose of buying the CG.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: donkey on Friday, March 24, 2017, 16:20:35
Not a charity they are an IPS - Independent Provident Society if memory serves me correct

Ok, that will probably narrow down options, but there are still organisations to apply to.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RedRag on Friday, March 24, 2017, 16:29:24
I do not know the status of the Trust but if there is to be a serious attempt to buy the CG by the Trust there will be significant legal and other fees to be incurred just to attempt this.

The question as to what happens to monies oversubscribed (or more likely undersubscribed ) is highly technical and can put the trustees in a nightmare situation of having to refund people who have died, gone away etc and the Trust will wish to avoid this risk from the start, including perhaps a review of its very own constitution - or the vehicle to be adopted for the CG acquisition.  In practice, I would doubt that casual public subscribers and non-members of the Trust would be refunded anything.

There is a failed crowd funding project for a certain D. Bowie to build a "Ziggy" memorial in Brixton which needed GBP 900,000 and reached only GBP 50,000 in the 4 weeks allowed.  Lambeth BC would have permitted the memorial.  I think the trustees are planning seeing what they can do for GBP 50,000 - but perhaps not what the donors bought into and the terms of the Trust and any Public Appeal will be pertinent.

Anyway I'm sure the famous Swindon Town wouldn't struggle like this D. Bowie person's fans and the "Ziggy" thingummy.

We plebs will probably have to be prepared to risk donations just on legals and other admin which would be non- refundable, naturally.

Then there is the Hunt v McLaren case of 2006 which dealt with exactly who owned the surplus funds when Horley Town Football Club (a stone's throw away from the irreproachable Crawley Town), sold land it had been gifted in trust in order to buy replacement land and build better facilities.  It turned out that only full members rather than associate members benefited financially.  Anyone contributing more than a match ticket or two is likely to want to have answers to the CG future windfall surplus allocation question.

The Trust really would have to up its game fifty fold in my view with legal, financial and accounting advice as well as PR and marketing.

I cannot recall the Eady Will Trust financial situation but that would be about the only outside body in whom I would have much confidence to contribute fairly.  Can serious funds be raised however without playing with sharks? 

If people didn't buy season tickets and instead invested in the Trust and went to a few ad hoc games instead that would raise the million!
 


Title: Re:
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Friday, March 24, 2017, 18:17:14
I listened to the latest podcast and Steve Mytton gave a bit more clarity.

The Red Army Fund is about showing the council the Trust are serious through regular contributions and has the backing of the supporters demonstrating political will.

There is more to come on the funding which will include the community shares. They also have backing of wealthy individuals to show they are serious.

Steve mentioned the need to involve professionals in their bid and it would cost money.

One thought I had does the Trust need to achieve a 100% ownership. Would a 50/50 share with the council work so the Trust's share of the rent is ploughed back into the ground and facilities?

A lot of work to be done to get over inertia from our supporters who don't worry about these aspects and are more concerned with performances on the pitch (and the burgers)

Sent from my HTC One M9


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: ron dodgers on Friday, March 24, 2017, 19:54:55
with ownership comes responsibilities - I wonder what they are?


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Red Frog on Friday, March 24, 2017, 20:51:04
Sounds to me as if they need to issue some clarifications - some of the guys must read this forum

And no doubt take account of the 20 or so loud voices that dominate it.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Friday, March 24, 2017, 21:27:34
And no doubt take account of the 20 or so loud voices that dominate it.

😱 Heresy


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Friday, March 24, 2017, 22:37:29
Now call me naive..... I have a level of intelligence but here goes...

Just an example, feel free to shoot me down if you like. If people seriously don't feel putting their trust in the Trust to mount a successful CG bid, why not think outside the box and set up an independent community based consortium of fans and actually put yourself in the frame to purchase the CG? We can go all day about viability but if people really feel the Trust aren't up to it/don't have the clarity the want and are worried about sharks taking control, then surely the next best thing is to mount your own bid as an independent consortium?

I understand this is EXACTLY what the Trust are kind of about but if people are disillusioned/confused about the Trusts true direction then my suggestion is; done properly and the right way, surely there are Town fans with resources/contacts/cashflow that could do probably what we've wanted for some time now.

I await (like in my other posts) to either be ignored or verbally shot down in an array of beration and disdain...so bring it on.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 02:04:33
Now call me naive..... I have a level of intelligence but here goes...

Just an example, feel free to shoot me down if you like. If people seriously don't feel putting their trust in the Trust to mount a successful CG bid, why not think outside the box and set up an independent community based consortium of fans and actually put yourself in the frame to purchase the CG? We can go all day about viability but if people really feel the Trust aren't up to it/don't have the clarity the want and are worried about sharks taking control, then surely the next best thing is to mount your own bid as an independent consortium?

I understand this is EXACTLY what the Trust are kind of about but if people are disillusioned/confused about the Trusts true direction then my suggestion is; done properly and the right way, surely there are Town fans with resources/contacts/cashflow that could do probably what we've wanted for some time now.

I await (like in my other posts) to either be ignored or verbally shot down in an array of beration and disdain...so bring it on.

There's nothing to stop you. We live in an age of individualism... the TE was built by fan's contributions, the Trust's efforts to put a roof on the Bank, shows that it is not now possible for such collectivism. It's a shame but it's where we are.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Bogus Dave on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 06:35:58
The head of the trust answered a question on that Facebook page about the clarity of aims on their website which suggests the ground is the sole focus moving forward

Quote
Fair point Rob. Just so you know, I'll be updating the Red Army Fund website this weekend and relaunching to make it very clear that our sole priority is the County Ground. We might do the odd thing here and there, but the absolute focus is on raising awareness and gaining Red Army Fund members to show the council and general public that Swindon Town fans are serious about this proposal. The actual purchase will come from a later community share offer, but we need funds to run a professional campaign and we also need to show council leaders that Town fans are prepared to put their money where their mouth is.[/]


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: leftside on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 08:54:40
There's nothing to stop you. We live in an age of individualism... the TE was built by fan's contributions, the Trust's efforts to put a roof on the Bank, shows that it is not now possible for such collectivism. It's a shame but it's where we are.
I don't think the failure to put a roof on the Bank is down to apathy. From my point of view it is not a good idea and therefore not worth supporting. Better to get behind a proper stadium redevelopment not just sticking plaster stuff. I wrote to the Trust to express this some time ago btw.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 09:07:31
I don't think the failure to put a roof on the Bank is down to apathy. From my point of view it is not a good idea and therefore not worth supporting. Better to get behind a proper stadium redevelopment not just sticking plaster stuff. I wrote to the Trust to express this some time ago btw.
seconded


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FreddySTFC! on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 09:20:22
seconded
Thirded. Complete waste of time & hard to believe the idea had enough support to get off the ground in the first place. The purchase of the CG is a far more worthwhile cause.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 16:25:11
Putting a roof on the Stratton bank is a great idea. AFTER we've bought the ground.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: garethgillman on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 18:59:16
Putting a roof on the Stratton bank is a great idea. AFTER we've bought the ground.

It's in the media pack they released that the bank will happen but the ground idea came from them engaging with businesses to invest in the idea to "roof the bank". The businesses turned around and said we won't invest unless the ground is owned by the Trust as there is no guarantee that the council won't sell the ground in 2 years time and and their money / hard work is wasted. So from that they are switching focus to getting hold of the ground and then once that's done they can work on projects such as the roof, a new TE and the club museum.

The trust has a big problem with their message though, they have 3 websites with 3 different messages which don't seem to be updated regularly (hence the confusion in this thread). Steve Mytton is updating the website(s) this weekend which should help clarify some of the points from the AGM and their new focus but there needs to be a lot more work as it's not very clear what the objective is at the moment


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: pauld on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 20:19:33
Putting a roof on the Stratton bank is a great idea. AFTER we've bought the ground.
This.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: FreddySTFC! on Saturday, March 25, 2017, 22:22:00
Putting a roof on the Stratton bank is a great idea. AFTER we've bought the ground.
There's no point putting a roof on that stand. It's fucking awful. It needs to be knocked down & rebuilt from scratch. It'll be a total waste of money.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Sunday, March 26, 2017, 00:22:20
agree with Freddy, condemn it!


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: @mwooly63 on Sunday, March 26, 2017, 10:01:11
There's no point putting a roof on that stand. It's fucking awful. It needs to be knocked down & rebuilt from scratch. It'll be a total waste of money.

It offers a better view than the town end and even though the toilets etc are ancient and dilapidated the TE ones aren't much better. Would be nice to see a new stand but can't see that happening.
We don't get anywhere near filling the other 3 stands as it is so no point.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: leftside on Sunday, March 26, 2017, 11:09:09
It offers a better view than the town end and even though the toilets etc are ancient and dilapidated the TE ones aren't much better. Would be nice to see a new stand but can't see that happening.
We don't get anywhere near filling the other 3 stands as it is so no point.
From my point of view, the point is showing the fans and the wider community that there is a plan in place and an ambition for the future that all could work towards. The plans drawn up some years ago for the ground redevelopment could be a starting point. Open up this ambition to the supporters, the council, potential new owners and make a go of it. It may be overly ambitious but at least it is an ideal to target. Add a desire to include a section of 'safe standing' into the mix and the appeal could be even greater, adding momentum to the whole aim of Trust ownership and redevelopment.

I don't get the 'we don't get anywhere near filling the other 3 stands' argument. If that's the attitude, why bother having three stands open when two would be enough?

I may be delusional, but Swindon as a town does have some pockets of really good stuff. I'd much rather see some big thinking and ambition rather than reverting to the 'oh but we can't compete with Bristol, Reading etc etc...' malaise. 


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: RedRag on Sunday, March 26, 2017, 13:18:57
I may be delusional, but Swindon as a town does have some pockets of really good stuff. I'd much rather see some big thinking and ambition rather than reverting to the 'oh but we can't compete with Bristol, Reading etc etc...' malaise. 
You are absolutely right: lack of ambition = self-fulfilling prophecy


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, March 26, 2017, 17:24:11
Putting a roof on the Stratton bank is a great idea. AFTER we've bought the ground.

I disagree. Should The Trust be successful in buying the ground I think a better option would be to try and apply for a FL grant to help fund a new purpose built stand. Stratton Bank is woefully outdated and sticking a roof on it is like sugar coating a turd. Some exterior modern cladding and some cosmetic work to the appallingly rusty grey Arkells Stand would improve the stadium no end. Whilst at it make the lower tier of the Arkells stand run the full length as this has bugged me for years. I'm sure The Town End has a few more years in her yet.


Title: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Batch on Monday, March 27, 2017, 06:40:10
the red army site is clearer now, I'll sort out my payments this week

http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk (http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk)


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, March 27, 2017, 09:09:04
the red army site is clearer now, I'll sort out my payments this week

http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk (http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk)

That is much better. Thanks for letting us know, I've signed up a bronze account.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Berniman on Monday, March 27, 2017, 09:49:09
There's no point putting a roof on that stand. It's fucking awful. It needs to be knocked down & rebuilt from scratch. It'll be a total waste of money.

Yep


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Monday, March 27, 2017, 09:53:06
That is much better. Thanks for letting us know, I've signed up a bronze account.
Yep same here.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, March 27, 2017, 10:57:09
I shall sign up later, just need to work out what package I will do.

Just one piece of constructive criticism - it would be great to have the section on the county ground plan from the AGM pack published on the website (not as a document), or perhaps an FAQ containing the same sort of details. I think this makes things really clear and whilst admittedly I've not kept my eye on the ball in terms of the trust's activities, I still had to hunt for the information!

Hope this builds in momentum.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Power to people on Monday, March 27, 2017, 15:22:10
the red army site is clearer now, I'll sort out my payments this week

http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk (http://www.redarmyfund.co.uk)

So the money raised isn't going towards buying the stadium, just the CG campaign whatever that may be ?? I'm still confused I'm afraid on what their aims are for the CG


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Tails on Monday, March 27, 2017, 15:23:14
I think you're being purposefully pedantic there mate.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Power to people on Monday, March 27, 2017, 15:24:27
I think you're being purposefully pedantic there mate.

Yea maybe - just making a point and trying to be negative  :D


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Samdy Gray on Monday, March 27, 2017, 15:45:22
Do the Trust publish the current total and value of regular pledges for the Red Army Fund? I can't find anything, but I'm sure there used to be something like that.

In this case where there's a target to aim for, some kind of 'totaliser' could be a good incentive.


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, March 27, 2017, 16:05:50
So the money raised isn't going towards buying the stadium, just the CG campaign whatever that may be ?? I'm still confused I'm afraid on what their aims are for the CG

Initially I interpreted it as that too, but I think the 'professional campaign' actually uses the RAF as a source of income to buy the ground, as outlined in the AGM pack:

http://www.truststfc.tv/downloads/agmpack.pdf


Title: Re: Trust look to buy the CG
Post by: garethgillman on Monday, March 27, 2017, 16:12:08
From what it says on the website, the RAF money will be used to not buy the ground but to help pay for their campaign(s) to get to the stage where they can buy it, then if the council give them the go ahead they will then release shares to buy in the trust / ground to help raise the funds for the purchase.

I actually emailed the trust chairman today about this as their messages are just so mixed it's really confusing, it's hard finding out what you are actually donating for, ok it's long term is the purchase of the ground but as above, it seems like that will be a different "fund" as the RAF is only used for funding stuff like the GWR banner and working with the local schools. Hopefully they will correct me if I am wrong.

Quote
The funds generated now will go towards a professional campaign that will give us the best chance of being successful, and in the future we will be sharing details of how you can purchase 'community shares' and buy a stake in the County Ground itself.