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Author Topic: Trust look to buy the CG  (Read 382159 times)
Don Rogers Sock

« Reply #390 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 09:50:28 »

Will make him aware he is needed here
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pauld
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« Reply #391 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 09:52:26 »

Awaits PaulD to fume at you
No need, horlock did it for me Smiley Although it doesn't matter how often you tell people this, they do seem to prefer to cling to the myth
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horlock07

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« Reply #392 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 10:10:44 »

No need, horlock did it for me Smiley Although it doesn't matter how often you tell people this, they do seem to prefer to cling to the myth

Not fuming at anyone, but we need to concentrate on areas where pressure can be applied....
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #393 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 11:09:33 »

The trouble with fan ownership is dosser and Christian Kostiuk get the same say as any of our more sensible fans.
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Bogus Dave
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« Reply #394 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 11:54:24 »

The trouble with fan ownership is dosser and Christian Kostiuk get the same say as any of our more sensible fans.

I don’t think we’d allow Cheltenham fans to have much say
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« Reply #395 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 12:14:45 »

Fan ownership would be a disaster in my opinion. Guaranteed to have in fighting on any fan related board.
The owner of the club should be allowed to buy the site but only at a fair price. It should also have conditions on the sale that it can only be made on the guarantee of preserving the football club if any sale of the club is made thereafter.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #396 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 12:27:50 »

Fan ownership would be a disaster in my opinion. Guaranteed to have in fighting on any fan related board.
The owner of the club should be allowed to buy the site but only at a fair price. It should also have conditions on the sale that it can only be made on the guarantee of preserving the football club if any sale of the club is made thereafter.


I very much doubt the sort of guarantees you'd like to see are legally possible.

Out of interest, why do you think an owner should profit from the time, effort and investment of hundreds of individuals over more than a hundred years?
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Arriba

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« Reply #397 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 12:40:55 »

I very much doubt the sort of guarantees you'd like to see are legally possible.

Out of interest, why do you think an owner should profit from the time, effort and investment of hundreds of individuals over more than a hundred years?
I don't believe they should profit from it. I believe the club should and only the club
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horlock07

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« Reply #398 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 12:55:21 »

Whenever things have been looked at before which involve an effort to redevelop and turn a profit, they've always fallen down on what you can actually do on the footprint, hence why the plans have tended to be about getting the CG on the cheap to sell up, relocate to a new prob out of town or Shaw Tip type site and build on the greater CG site to fund it.

What's different now?

I very much doubt the sort of guarantees you'd like to see are legally possible.

Out of interest, why do you think an owner should profit from the time, effort and investment of hundreds of individuals over more than a hundred years?

 Hmmm
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #399 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 12:55:22 »

I don't believe they should profit from it. I believe the club should and only the club

Of course in an ideal world, I don't think anybody would complain if the owner wanted to buy the CG, develop it and then hand it over to the club as a gift, before beating a retreat with maybe the ground named after them.

But TBF to Power, he has said all along his reason for being here is to make money, so at least he's up front about it.

 Now for me the evidence for Power being benevolent, are about the same as his being malevolent, which  should rule him out of CG ownership.  If SBC has to sell, and the Trust can meet the cost, then they should get it.  
« Last Edit: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 12:57:27 by Reg Smeeton » Logged
horlock07

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« Reply #400 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 13:09:42 »

I don't believe they should profit from it. I believe the club should and only the club

Therein lies the problem, as the club has no money, shows little sign of ever having any substantial amount of money and one cannot borrow money without someone profiting on the project development is never going to happen.

Power (or in fact any owner unless they are a mental fan and uber wealthy) isn't going to spend £50m+ buying and then developing the ground for nothing in return, its the paradox of football club supporting, fans moan about season tickets going up and having to pay 50p more for a burger, then in the next breath moan that the owner won't spend millions of their money with no return.  

How far do we go with this, even if Power decided to pump a few mill in and then proceed with a development for no personal gain, any contractor doing work would profit from the scheme so why should they and not Power - I know I am being silly in this example but where does it stop?
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« Reply #401 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 13:29:14 »

if any owner makes a bit, and passes the club on with better facilities it owns and a new owner that isn't a 'Jed' - surely 90% of fans would welcome it?

it's the risk of getting/being sold on to be Kasam'd that's the real issue isn't it?
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #402 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 13:55:20 »

As has been debated at length on here sadly means piss all. If the Council do sell to Power our biggest hope down that route will be whatever clauses they put in any contract regarding uplifts, right to sell on and, as I would expect, repeat the sporting covenant in their sale document to him along with equally draconian measures to maintain its sporting community use.

However, there is still silence on the ACV issue from the Trust, as I understand it they can request a 6 month moratorium if the owner decides to sell (which I assume they did when this all kicked off), I wonder whether this 6 months has now ceased hence Power now getting heavily involved as the Trust have persuaded the Council they want to sell (the law of unforeseen circumstances I fear) but have not made tangible process within the 6 month window, plus there is no legal requirement for the Council to actually sell to them meaning as I mentioned at the time the ACV designation is not the golden bullet many were suggesting it was?

However the ACV is also a material planning consideration for things like demolition so it gives the Trust (or anyone else for that matter) the ability to hold the Council to account on subsequent planning applications should Power go down that route and also leaves the door open to a JR if the Council do not attach sufficient value to the ACV in the planning process, or go against their own development plan in making any decisions.

Things are far from lost, but fucking hell the Trust could desperately do with saying something.... anything.... about where they are with things  Hmmm FWIW I am equally fearful of the Trust buying the ground with the funds of a few wealthy (and as its stands entirely unknown) backers....

I think I have a hunch who one of the backers is and if i’m right it’s not a villain in sheeps clothing. You’re right to some degree about the covenant possibly meaning diddly squat but the you thrown in possible caveats that SBC could weave into the sale, in a way are they not similar hurdles for ANY prospective buyer to agree to and overcome? You are of course right to be sceptical of the Trust also. Let’s assume they win the bidding process, one would assume SBC have done (as should the trust members) due diligence on the buyers? I still feel that the other bits of land are key to the whole future of the club. As it stands we the fans have a good hand at the poker table because if and it is a big if we all decided to boycott the turnstiles Power has nothing but some concrete and steel to show for his input so far. Once he or the Trust own the ground as well then it’s all to play for isn’t it? Could all end up being a heads you lose tails you loose.
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horlock07

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« Reply #403 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 14:43:43 »

I don't disagree with any of this, but to pick a few points...

I think I have a hunch who one of the backers is and if i’m right it’s not a villain in sheeps clothing.

Possibly so, but what about unforeseen circumstances, successors etc? Setting aside years of experience of property deals going belly up as investors circumstances change or those who inherit their estates either a) want to cash in and don't have the same personal links to the investment or b) don't agree with what has been done and challenge god knows what, on a more local level just remember what happened with Power (B)?

You’re right to some degree about the covenant possibly meaning diddly squat but the you thrown in possible caveats that SBC could weave into the sale, in a way are they not similar hurdles for ANY prospective buyer to agree to and overcome?

Again I would agree in principal however the Goddard one was written years back in different times and I assume will be a fairly generic land use only one, in this day and age if it were sold to a private company the Council could be incredibly specific and tie the covenants all together (for instances controls over use, ownership, disposal rights, land use etc etc etc)- any decent property solicitor could make such interlinked covenants nigh impossible and very costly to wriggle out of.

I still feel that the other bits of land are key to the whole future of the club.

Indeed, but then this falls foul of the issue of anyone bar the club making a profit. Looking at a few high profile examples of ground redevelopments and the overarching theme is a) Council co-operation (who knows if this is feasible) and b) some manner of third party (in planning terms 'enabling development') to fund the project, Bolton - Middlebrook Retail Park, Swansea - Council led scheme, Cardiff - Retail scheme adjacent, Brentford - hundreds of houses. Now in the old days the easiest solution (not for the town possibly but for the club financially) would have been to sell the site of the CG to Tesco or someone to build a store, now that isn't an option anymore so housing maybe. The problem the CG has is I don't know how much land comes with it but you ain't going to get the enabling development to cross fund on the site, you might get a hotel ala Bolton but that isn't enough, so you are immediately dependent on (likely third party who will want their 15%) seed funding at least!

Could all end up being a heads you lose tails you loose.


This is it, could be great, could be a millstone for the future for whoever gets it, for instance if the Trust buy and then 5 years down the line and unforeseen £10m needs spending where is that coming from, likewise Power buys, fans get pissed off revenues drop and you have a very pricey football pitch!

Its an important historical moment and needs the right outcome and team on either side, I honestly don't know which way I would like it to go, a combined bid seems the most attractive and unattainable.
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« Reply #404 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 17:11:33 »

Just think it could be renamed the King Power Stadium....oh no, that has gone. If it was moved out of Town it could become the "Lee Delemere Arena"   Soapy Tit Wank Pint
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