Thetownend.com

If you are going to come into this thread and bleat about how much you don't care, then fuck right off.

England squad announced tomorrow. Thoughts and feelings? Will be interesting to see how much of a new squad hodgson picks.

Also interested to see the Czechs have picked 4 keepers in their squad. Sadly no room for Magera though :(

I think he should clear out the old and go with youth..

I heard somewhere he has been told he can't pick terry AND Ferdinand which is probably a good thing as both haven't Been great this year!

4 keepers is strange sure enough...

no terry - absolutely no reason for him to go

take oxlade chamberlain and andy carroll.  talk is both gerrard and lampard to go, fuck that, leave lamps at home and put gerrard on the bench.

absolutely has to be a progressive squad for me this year, no room for scholes either, unless he's a player-coach, strange for a national squad as it may be.

The squad I would take:

GKs: Hart, Green, Ruddy
Ds: Richards, Johnson, Ferdinand, Cahill, Lescott, Cole, Baines, Jones
Ms: Gerrard, Carrick, Lampard, Parker, Young, Walcott, Milner,
Fs: Rooney, Crouch, Welbeck, Sturridge, Carroll

Richards can play right back or centre back so provides extra cover, and Jones can also play in midfield, leaving an extra option up front.  I think Carroll has something about him and has started to show it towards the end of the season - he scared the life out of Terry in the cup final.  I'd like to include more young players - but I don't see many around who would make much impact yet.

However, I think Hodgson may just go with Zamora and he'll probably take Gareth Barry as well.

I would go with the experienced pros but more with a view to dropping them after.No use playing the youngsters yet and getting humiliated on the big stage.Let the experienced ones do that then let the youngsters get ready for the world cup

He should definitely take Connell

FWIW, the team that I think he'll take/want him to take would be

GK - Hart, Green, Ruddy
DF - Cole, Baines, Johnson, Walker, Jones, Terry, Cahill, Jagielka
CM - Walcott, Carrick, Parker, Gerrard, Milner, Young, Lampard
CF - Rooney, Bent, Holt, Sturridge, Welbeck

Grant Holt HAS to be on that plane

I would like to see Joe Cole in the squad. No chance of it happening though.

Quite interesting feeling this year, no one is really expecting us to do that well and the media isn't hyping it up that much, may change with a week to go.

Would prefer Hodgson to take the form players, instead of the players who have already been and fucked it up so many times, but see him going with the old brigade. Maybe the likes of Crouch and Holt have done enough? I know many teams in europe would not like to play the likes of Crouch and Holt.

There are a few nailed-on selections depending on injuries. The likes of Rooney, Hart, Parker, Cole etc. But there are quite alot of players who are still not guranteed a spot. Like I said would prefer not to take the people the people who have failed in the past. Look at the likes of Germany brung in young players for the World Cup and absoultly mullered us, would like to see us do the same as we do have a lot of very promising youngsters in the side, the likes of Sturidge, Chamberlain, Clevery, Welbeck, Jones, Smalling etc. It may not win us the tournament but it would help us build to other tournaments and help hopefully future success. Mixed with the youth of course you need some experience so Roy would bring the likes of Terry, Gerrard and Lampard, but I think it would be brilliant if he could bring Scholes to the Euro's would do a nice little job.

Just a few thoughts.

ahead of carroll on current form?  he absolutely has to go for me?

how has been getting on in France, seems to have gone quiet!!

I think he'll take Terry not Ferdinand based solely on injury record.

I'd leave them both at home along with Gerrard and Lampard, write off Euro 2012 and start to build for 2014 with youth. But he can't do that, he'd be crucified by the press.

We'll know whether he's not up to it if he picks Grant fucking Holt.

I'll admit my clamouring for Grant Holt is not entirely for his footballing ability, but he's got the goalscoring record this season that only rooney has bettered in an England shirt.

We need a target man, to mix it up if nothing else. I'd like it to be Holt, but I'd imagine he's at least 4th in that queue behind Carrol, Crouch and Zamora

Sorry Dave, didn't read you wanted Holt in before posting that.

To put it another way Holt has had a great season, but is old* and is not international quality. That said, are Carrol, Zamora and Crouch!

* I say old, I thought he was 35/36 not 31.

he just seems a bit kevin davies to me, i actually think lambert is a better player than holt is.  carroll just seems a bit more dynamic as it were

I would go with baggins squad but swap carson for ruddy

I really don't rate Theo Walcott, I would take Chamberlain or Adam Johnson ahead of him.


GKs: Hart, Green, Ruddy
Ds: Richards, Johnson, Ferdinand, Cahill, Lescott, Cole, Baines, Jones
Ms: Gerrard, Carrick, Scholes, Parker, Young, A Johnson, Milner,
Fs: Rooney, Crouch, Welbeck, Sturridge, Carroll

There aren't going to be many defenders on the international stage used to coping with the physical presence of someone like Carroll. Too many small strikers these days. He's a game changer and has to be in the squad.

Me too. I've only fleetingly seen him on MOTD/Sky but he still doesn't seem to have the end product to go with the speed.

Fucking Swindon reject.

Gerrard has been shite or injured for the last couple of seasons. A big no for me.

If Roy has balls there would be no Terry, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard or Cole. There should also be a big question mark over wasting a squad place on Rooney.

Only take players who will realistically make the next World Cup and use this tournament solely for gaining experience.

C'mon Roy, you know it makes sense!

Genuine question - when people say leave the old guard at home and take the young players - which young players do you mean?  I just don't see many around who are capable enough.  Name them please.

That is good squad, i think we'd have enough to progress to the qf maybe even the semi's, but i think i might be disapointed with the team that gets announed. Hasn't Scoles retired from international football?

i'm well excited. already sorted the work sweepstake and bought the sticker album (which will never be complete but keeps me occupied).

So who's your money on? cheeky fiver on the italians and a tenner on the hun for me. hope england get into the knockout and i'll be happy.

Germany or France I reckon. Spain won't win it

Germany I reckon.

as open as it's been for a while i think

I'll be in Germany for the final.  That'll be great fun.

To watch thousands of celebrating Germans? It's a horrible experience, trust me

I'd go with:

Hart, Foster (if he were to come out of retirement), Ruddy

Richards, Walker, Cahill, Jagielka, Jones, Lescott, Cole, Baines

Walcott, Milner, Parker, Gerrard, Barry, Scholes, Young, Johnson

Rooney, Wellbeck, Sturridge, Crouch

Would've probably had Wilshere and Smalling in there but for injuries too.

Ferdinand won't be being picked

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-05-15/report-rio-axed-from-the-england-euro-2012-squad/

that better not be to make room for that thug terry

I still can't for the life of me comprehend how people think England have better centre halves than Ferdinand and Terry, you haven't.

I feel for Richards if that's true, what has the lad got to do to be picked?

terry isn't even chelsea's best centre half

What would everyones first XI be out of interest?

Hart

Richards
Lescott
Cahill
Cole

Walcott
Gerrard
Parker
Scholes
Young

Crouch

Yes he is. Forget about him being a twat off the pitch.

him being a twat doesn't even come into it in this respect, cahill is better

Likely to be in the squad now, Kyle Walker is out with injury.

It's only when I sat down at thought about it that I realised exactly how mediocre England are.

For me, Terry can only be justified if he'd be first choice and I really don't think he is. Jagielka and Lescott for me, neither as good as Terry used to be, both better than he is now.

Unless he takes Johnson then Jones who can cover both CB and RB. I would definitely take Richards though

Hart, Ruddy, Green
Richards, Smalling, Jones, Cahill, Jagielka, Lescott, Baines
Young, Chamberlain, Johnson, Parker, Scholes, Cleverly, Milner
Carroll, Crouch, Rooney, Wellbeck, Sturridge.

Smalling has already been ruled out of the tournament through injury.

Totally agree with this, and add Cahill and Jones to those two.

What fucks me off is how Terry always seems to be untouchable.Not a big fan of Ferdinand but feel for him here,he is basically being punished for his brother being abused.

Reports suggest no Ferdinand and no Richards.

Terry will be 35 for the next world cup, probably past it.

We are going to achieve nowt this year, so as many others keep saying, blood a youngster instead.

Spot on Son!

Personally I would have left out Lampard, Terry,Ferdinand and Gerrard.  Those useless cunt have failed tournament after tournament so wouldnt have given them the chance to fuck at another.  

Lets start now to build the nucleas of a team that could compete at Euro 2016.  It would mean a struggle at this tourno, and I dont see any European team doing that great at the next world cup.

Whoops... i knew Walker was out, but hadn't heard about Smalling

I feel this will be a consolidation period while we start building a side that MAY contend in the next World Cup.

Get the blend of experience and youth in there and get them gelling as a unit. The best teams in the world are not teams of outstanding individuals they are workmanlike teams that have a few skilled players but all play as a team. That is why Brazil so rarely make a great team, always good but rarely great.

We will miss Rooney in the early stages, without him we don't have a lot of creative striking options, Young can turn it on but can also be dire at times. I personally would play Crouch, he has always done the business at international level yet is not an outstanding player by any means but always gives 100%.

I would have named a 27/30 man squad today and used the allotted time to make the big decisions.

But Spain are a team of outstanding individuals and look what they've achieved in recent times.

Glenn Johnson at RB, then? Champion! :(

What about Micah Richards? Surely he'd get the nod at right back?

If the manager said to both of them "I want to take you both to the finals are you ok with that?" and one of them said no, which would you choose.

I'm guessing not the one that spends more time injured than playing, and said I'm not playing if you pick him.

Personally I would have left them both out, neither are the future for England so why not go for players that will be around for the next 8-10 years

Anyone know what time the sqaud is announced?

Reportedly not in the squad.

Ruddy in, Crouch out apparently.

We'll see.

13:00

OK, so no Micah Richards and no Kyle Walker in the squad, maybe that's why Gary Neville has been draughted in.

I'd rather Phil Jones at RB than Glen Johnson.

Me too, Glenn Johnson is a weak link defensively.

There is no logical reasoning for taking Terry. He's not as good as he used to be, he is very disruptive and the racism trial will be hanging over him and the entire squad until it is resolved. He had the opportunity to get trial out of the way before Euro 2012 but he deliberately delayed it, he should have taken the option of clearing his name sooner rather than later.

If he is selected and then found guilty it will make the FA and Hodgson look like idiots and will hang over them for some time to come, especially due to all the bad blood it has created.

That's the thing though isn't it.Ferdinand has actually played 38 games this season,granted Terry has played more but the games he has missed have all been recently due to hip injury.

I hope it's just a rumour looking for a reaction, but there are reports that Downing will be included.

Downing has played in every game for England this season.

Why exclude him now?

Different manager and he is shit

Because he is shit.

Nooooooo

That cunt cant even get an assist!

Never let facts get in the way of a good time.

People want too much from Hodgson's selection already. He has to take some of the current regulars for continuity alone, right? If not he'll get slated for selecting a squad that's on a suicide mission.

The facts are he has no assists and no goals this season.

Because if the squad is picked on form like it should be (and what I've been hoping an England manager would do since Hoddle), he is in the midst of a rather large spell of ineffectiveness...

Sven picked players based on 'current form' and got slated for selecting footballers who "weren't England quality".

England managers are eternally on a hiding to nothing.

For the record, I don't rate Downing.

I'd take Beckham.

The Times reporting that Oxlade-Chamberlain is in. Pleased with that one.

no goals & no assists. I am suprised there hasn't been a call up for Matt Ritchie at left midfield.

He's going and we should therefore deal with it.

Hart, Green, Ruddy, Johnson, Jones, Terry, Lescott, Cahill, Cole, Baines, Walcott, Downing, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Gerrard, Barry, Lampard, Parker, Young, Milner, Defoe, Rooney, Welbeck, Carroll.

Fail.

Honestly, what were people expecting!?!

It's a weak squad.

I would've expected 2 out of Barry, Lampard and Gerrard not to have gone.

Uninspired but not surprised. Still hope Roy gets them playing decent, effective football but not confident.

You're dreaming Samdy. This is their final hoorah, of course they'd all go.

Panic over. Jordan Henderson is on the standby list.

And jack butland

Not a bad squad in my opinion.

Starting XI along the lines of:

Joe Hart

Glen Johnson
Gary Cahill
Joleon Lescott
Ashley Cole

Ashley Young
Scott Parker
Steven Gerrard
Theo Walcott

Andy Carroll
Jermain Defoe (Rooney when available)

That doesn't look bad to me at all.

Not as good as Wes.

Pretty sure he's my keeper on FM12.

I would like to know the reasons for not taking Richards, and taking Downing.

Line up in 1st game:

Hart

Jones
Terry
Cahill
Cole

Parker
Lampard

Walcott
Gerrard
Young

Welbeck

Carrick not being in the only real surprise for me. Guess we'll know whether it was the right choice come July, but it's not like having Micah Richards rather than Glen Johnson is going to suddenly make us better than Spain.

Surprised Grant Holt didn't get a go as well.

He's was never ever in a million years going to be selected.

...and that's not me saying that he shouldn't have been considered.

"#HodgsonOut" is trending on twitter.

Nice people have given the team a chance.

I don't know why you all get so worked up about it.

Suprised Carrick isn't in it and Downing is in it. Apart from that not too surprised.

Happy Chamberlain is going though.

Only 4 strikers , one of whom is banned for the first 2 games, makes one up front a certainty.

It's an opportunity wasted in my opinion.

Young can play up top if needed or just behind a striker if playing 4-4-1-1

An opportunity to do what though.

He can only pick from the players he has at his disposal. Alto of people moaning about who he has picked but not too many viable alternatives suggested.

Just because players aren't in doesn't mean they weren't considered.

I personally would have made a couple of different picks but its all opinion at there's no stand out omission.

What really irritates me about the England supporter is that for months and months most fans (and perhaps rightly so) have been going on about England not being good enough to compete at the Euros, seemingly accepting this for the first time in ages... Brilliant.

...and then the squad is announced and it's fucking anarchy  :suicide:

As a collective, we have the biggest chip on our shoulders and it's no wonder that the rest of the world can't stand us.

Actually I think Woy will play Barry instead of Lampard.

I think I would struggle to name many players we could have taken that offer anything better or different.

Exactly, most are 'I would've have taken him instead' but none of them are absolutely-what-the-fuck-is-going-on glaring omissions.

Gerrard named captain...


Think Roy is still in love with Liverpool.

Forgetting who's in and who's out of the squad - I'm realising I like Woy - I like Woy a lot

No Joey Barton?

Fraser Forster is a good goalkeeper who gets overlooked. Go to the current SPL and be doomed for eternity.

Shame - he could have sorted out those Ukraine hooligans

Parker shouldve had it

Although I agree, there's still a possibility that he won't go.

Just watched the press conference. Half of the questions were about Terry and Ferdinand, yet nobody saw fit to question why on earth Stuart Downing is anywhere near the squad...

I've just been through the mugshots on the Guardian website of the 24 (incl Roy) going to Ukraine.  I got 16 of them, but couldn't name the other 8.

I think I'll stick to Swindon.   :)

Some guy on Twitter said that he had the same number of goals and assists as Downing in the Premier League this season, and whether that means he should be included in the squad too!

 :D

tim howard has more

That has also been on Twitter.

So does Wes Foderingham I guess. In the league.

You got Milner though, right ;)

I did!

Bring back Heskey

It's not England if it doesn't involve Darius Vassell.

well he bloody scored against us

Their final hooray should have been 2 years ago

I agree and we'll say similar when we wheel them out in Brazil (qualification pending).

Do we really need so many midfielders?

9 midfielders and (omitting Rooney) only 3 strikers? Bearing in mind his great goalscoring rate for England, why not take Crouchy?

With the general shitness of English football players I cant tell if people are being sarcastic about the squad.  We've got a load of average players.  Carroll is in but Crouch isnt!  Shock horror.  One shade of grey has been preferred to another.  Oh well, maybe we'll play as a team and do better than expected.  But maybe not.

I think it's dangerous to drop the experience players and just play the youngsters because  

a) The youngsters aren't good enough yet

and

b) You run the risk of the media ruining them if they get annihilated

I think you make a good point but for England Crouch has never disappointed. Carroll has had a pretty woeful season, although to be fair has played quite well towards the end of the season.

Perhaps Roy is rolling the dice and taking a gamble based on the fact we don't really have much to lose in this tournament because we are gash, however I'm surprised Crouch is not in the squad personally.

Alot of people who are going on about Crouch are the same ones who are saying try the youngsters. Crouch is 31 now and although he has scored goals is actually part of the past squads that have helped fuck up. Carrol has looked better recently and goes here with a bit of confidence for once.

For the first time i am more confident because these players are going with the nation expecting failure as oposed to overhped bollocks we get every few years

One of two things will happen:

1. The team will fail to get out of the group. Many people will weep and gnash their teeth about the state of English footy, there will be calls for reform of the game from top to bottom and back again. The FA will respond with a huge enquiry costing millions, performed by someone with a knighthood who will produce a big report suggesting that the top 6 or so clubs have too much power and are not acting in the interests of the national team and jolly well should. Nothing will be done as a result of it because the top 6 clubs won't like it.

2. The team will get to the knockout stages. Suddenly, there will be a huge media rush to proclaim them the next Golden Generation who will win the whole thing, solve the debt crisis, bring balance to The Force and grant us all eternal life. Then they'll lose to Spain or Germany and we'll get endless dissection of the losing performance, comaprisons with the team that wins the whole thing, a million editorials for / against Hodgson's every decision and probably four or five ghostwritten autobiographies about the whole "tournament journey" rushed out before the new season starts.
Then, the new season will start and nobody will care about the Euros.

I've seen this happen bofore, you see...

Couldn't agree more on this.

...all of which would be funny if it wasn't completely true.

Good (but depressing) post.   :)

Agree,think the pressure is of to a certain extent because no one is expecting them to do anything.Also lots of other distractions with the jubilee and the olympics,so won't attract the usual hype.

Wouldn't say i'm any more confident that they will do anything though. I'd be happy if they get out of the group and there is no trouble.....

As I previously alluded to earlier in this thread, I was under the impression that bar had already been lowered and the pressure was off.

Then the squad is announced and all of a sudden everybody is frantically looking at their family history to see if there's any German, Spanish or Italian in their bloodline so they can support them instead.

Awful squad but no big surprises really. Clear that the Ferdinand-Terry thing is a bit messy and they've backed the better player by picking him. Rio deffo would be in if it wasn't for the overhanging court case as the other dead wood getting call ups shows.
The forwards don't convince me at all but the pickings are shit anyway. Whoever was selected woudln't inspire confidence.
 richards i would have taken along with Johnson.
I think a bit fat stinking MEH says how i feel . Hope the irish do well and show our shower of shit up

Shame on you arriba, shame on you.

...but they do have Simon Cox  :hmmm:

Haha

He sort of looks bothered to me.

I'm a big fan of Crouch but I'm not that surprised he's been left out. Whilst Hodgson likes a traditional English striker, I'm not sure Crouch really fits the bill the same way as Carroll. I remember England games before when Crouch was supposed to be playing that role but he continually dropped off the front which is a problem when the other striker does the same.

But with Rooney out for the first two games, taking only three other strikers seems a bit short sighted. Guess Walcott is another option up front, seem to recall him saying it's his preferred position rather than winger. An in form Walcott and Chamberlain on the wings will be a pretty potent attacking force.

Think Hodgson has been set up for a fall by the FA, with him being appointed so late he doesn't really have the option of making major changes to the Capello squad. Don't think we'll see the real Hodgson team until next season.

That isn't actually his reply though is it? I swear some gullible fucker have taken that from the parody account on twitter

It's not him. Just somebody that looks like him

Somebody needs to tell him (real or not) that the best colouring in is done inside of the lines.

I dont agree with the Hodgson out stuff, he came across very well in his press conference.

However, alot of the players in that squad have had 8 to 10 years worth of chances - and failed pretty much every time.

In part because of over the top expectations, part over hype and part just not being good enough footballers.

Obviously photoshopped, I think that was taken from the last world cup when he was at home watching and he put 'come on boys' or something like that.

And Coxy is English...nevertheless, Woy wouldn't have picked him in the squad despite the possibility he might score  few goals at the tournament.

Probably the weakest England squad since Euro 92...then we finished bottom of the group, didn't win a game, and scored the one goal. Will be doing well to avoid something similar this time.

The hodgson out brigade would probably want Redknapp in the job who would have picked the same squad bar the odd exception.

If we finish bottom of the group I will post a photo of my misses's tits on here.

Saved for posterity

Better safe than sorry :)

Good stuff....always assuming that they're worth looking at.  What sort of age and are we talking, ectomorph or endomorph?

She's 22, it wont happen anyway, so it doesn't really matter :D

Hope that's not her bra size!!

Pick younger players so they get some game time at a major tournament.

Your right about fans accepting that we won't do anything this tournament so this would be a perfect opportunity to blood some youngsters rather than trot out the same old serial under-performers.

The squad is not what i'd had hoped. Go away with Terry, Lampard and Gerrard. They have been tried and they have failed. Should have taken Adam Johnson over Downing and Richards over Johnson.

I think you should just post it now anyway.

and who over lampard,Terry,Gerrard

Williamson at Newcastle has had a decent season, rather him than Terry.  Arteta, qualifies for England, why not pick him, Spain won it 4 years ago with Marcos Senna a Brazilian...Cleverley looks to have potential.

You just want to see his missus tits don't you

Totally agree with you, how Downing has been picked over A Johnson is a joke, and for me Richards is one the best right backs in the world let alone England.

Also i would of picked Sturridge over Defoe myself, but i do like Defoe.

I had hoped for a young squad with only a few experienced regulars like Rooney, terry & gerrard. Maybe giving players like Barkley a go as a wildcard.   :)

Would of liked to of seen Lennon aswell but i think that's where England is most strongest on the wing.

Was Leon Britton worth a call-up? Played in a decent Swansea team all season and according to the statistics, he has the highest pass completion rate in world football (93.3% accuracy); better than Spain's Xavi (93.0%).

Would have been good to have seen maybe a few Swansea or Norwich players in there.

Am I the only one that thinks that statistics can be misleading sons of bitches?

6.27% of TEF agrees with you.

 :nod:

After hearing Roy Hodgson's squad announcement, Duran Duran are to re-release one of their songs for the England football team."His name is Rio and he watches from

88.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.

It seems Michael Carrick didn't want to go unless he was definitely going to play.  Imagine if all players said that - we'd only take 11 players.  Poor attitude from a good player.

"Manchester United's Michael Carrick, who has not played for England since May 2010, was not considered because he told the Football Association he did not want to be a bit-part player".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18098812

Carrick has never been an England regular due to his position. He's 30, not played since 2010 so I don't really blame him.

Oh... I mean

HOW DARE YOU NOT WANT PLAY FOR YOUR NATION!

Not quite how I put it, Constanza.  I actually would have him in the first 11 - extremely underrated if you ask me.  It is of course completely up to him - there are now plenty that have chosen not to play.  However, I really thought he would be in the squad - and would have a good chance of playing time.  Personally I do think it is a bad decision to turn down the chance - its a couple of weeks of hard work with a chance to play in a big tournament.  But as I said, he is completely within his rights.

My post wasn't in reference to what you wrote (other than the fact that you brought the Carrick news to our attention).

Well it does actually outline something that has been a regular grievance for England fans for some years now....... they just don't care. There's an opportunity to represent your country and some of these overpaid cunts would rather be off on holiday somewhere.

Fuck them.

at the other end of the argument, at least he didn't go along not giving a shit

Which is why I say 'fuck them'

Can you blame Carrick? He's spent a decade watching Gerrard and Lampard fail to click and watch every coach keep the faith.

Carrick has achieved a lot and has never been fully recognised on an international level. Carrick knows that it's not going to get easier for him and therefore he's allowing the new generation to progress.

I don't blame Carrick one bit.

A holiday on your own personal Caribbean island or staying in a succession of dodgy Ukrainian hotels with the weight of a nation on your shoulders supported by fans who will crucify you when you inevitably fail to live up to the totally inappropriate tag of "world beaters".

I know where I'd rather be

Well he's never going to get a shot if he doesn't go, perhaps Woy would have used him more.

He has the opportunity to potentially represent his company in a major tournament and says no because he's in a bit of a sulk.  He's supposed to be a professional footballer.

Fuck him. Let him sulk and let another, more eager, player take his place.

Oops.  Sorry.  Over-reaction possibly on my part.

I still think he ought not to have ruled himself out, but perhaps, as others have said, if he doesn't want to play it is better that somebody who does want to gets a place.

Don't keep us in suspense!

(It's the dodgy Ukranian hotel, isn't it?)

It's his decision and you've got to respect it. But when a player shows that kind of attitude to playing for England that should be them done and dusted and not given a second chance. You shouldn't have to beg them to play, or to come out of retirement - if it's not the most important thing for them then they're not the right player to pick.

You can say what you want about Beckham, but he'd give anything even his dying breath to play for England again. If only we had an entire squad of players with that attitude, we'd probably still lose but at least we'd know they were trying and it mattered to them.

I'd prefer England had it's 100% best squad but it's not always going to be the case. Carrick is seemingly not a crucial member of the squad and rarely has been. So it's a surprise to me when people treat him like scum for not wanting another summer of wearing a 21 jersey and sitting on a bench with the hope of 10 minutes against Belgium because Lampard/Gerrard are knackered.

For 12 years Carrick has accepted every call-up without complaint. It's got to the stage where he's got to think of his long-term career. We hated Shearer for calling it quits after Euro 2000 but it prolonged his domestic career, the game that pays his wages.

Carrick's probably been in some of the best form of his career this season. Aided mostly by injuries to Anderson, Fletcher and Cleverley at Man Utd.

The problem is though, he doesn't fit the stereotype of an English international midfielder (i.e. tough-tackler or goal-getter). He's defensively not as good as Parker and doesn't score as many as Lampard/Gerrard.

It's a real shame, because he's probably one of the best passers of a football that I've seen.

Logic? Reason?

'E DAAAN'T WANNA PLAY FOR INGERLUND SO 'E CAN FACK RIGHT OFF

I think the same of Carrick that I do of carragher. Not a lot.

Playing for you country is a privalidge not a right.

But he did the correct thing. Any player that thinks they are too good to sit on the bench can stay at home. Even if they are right.

I guess that is a symptom of how football is right now. Some players just aren't that bothered by international football.

So how would Carrick going along but not playing actually shorten his career ?

Simple fact is that a lot of players are content to pick up vast sums of money on their own terms and not want to leave their comfort zone.

Norway, presumably.

Totally agree with that, technically excellent. Shame that with England he hasn't got a look in.

Many feel that leaving the international set-up helps prevent additional injuries. I'm not a sports scientist but many have cited this. There's no point in arguing this as all I'll get is...

"It's an excuse."
"He plays for Manchester United, Fergie is telling him what to do - Smalling isn't really injured you know."
"Bobby Moore played when called upon."

Also, out of his comfort zone? Carrick has been in the England set-up for over 10 years! I dare say that he found the England squad comfy, spacious with a lovely day spa and ping pong table that suited his needs.

He's been an unused sub (included all of WC 2010) seven England squads he's been part of. He's spent an entire international career in the shadow of Lampard and Gerrard. Those two often defied the form argument when Carrick was playing brilliantly, picking up Champions League medals and League championships along the way.

After a decade of service, he's had enough. Sorry. Wants to swim in a pool of money just like Scrooge McDuck.

But not all, fortunately. Ruddy was happy to cancel his wedding despite being 3rd choice keeper and needing a miracle / disaster for him to even get 5 minutes playing time.

Not strictly true. He's been granted permission to miss the 2nd warm up game against Belgium.

Capello, made sure there would be no dodgy Ukrainian hotels for our boys, rather dodgy Polish hotels, and 5 hour tactical flights into Ukraine.  Can they really be going Aeroflot? :plane:

I'm in the fair play to Carrick camp. He'd be one of the last picks to play and i doubt he'd get selected anyway.

[Offtopic]
How ironic that we have an Official Euro 2012 Thread just as the Euro appears to be about to die a horrible death.  The architects of the European Project should be lined up against a wall and shot.  There's a shitstorm coming our way.
[/Offtopic]

The official England hotel is right in the centre of krakow near all the bars, but more importantly it's dead opposite roosters - a polish version of hooters.

I went to (a) Roosters in Krakow back in 2007. We spent the whole day there, food, beer etc and when we settled our bill it was something crazy like the equivalent of 10 Euro each!! I guess the price has gone up since then however.

It's a classic case of cutting your nose off bla bla bla

Carrick has reached the level that most boys dream of, and snubbed it. Let's face it, he is hardly the player that can change the teams fortune, we will easily survive without him.

He is the one that will live to regret his decision. Especially if we went and won the thing!!

Carrick has a Champions League winners medal - The modern pinnacle of football for many footballers.

He'll sleep at night.

Champions league is a bronze medal. Euros is silver. World cup is gold. He has picked up third place. Not a small feat by any means, but it's still third.

My point stands. Players don't like winning medals without playing, if England won he would have had little (if any) participation.

He'll sleep well.

Fair enough, I see your point.

But, snubbing the opportunity to have the possibility to Play for England is a terrible decision that could lead to future regret. Millions of our countries boys dream of that chance. To snub it, well, you get my drift.

Got Denmark in a sweepstake. They are in a group with Germany, Holland and Portugal.

That was a waste of £2.

Who knows.  I bet someone did something similar in May 1992...

And I got Greece in 2004.

I had Portugal.  I also was in a car accident the day of the final.

It was not a good day.

Did you survive the accident?

Nope. I died at the scene.

I was fine.  My chavmobile Saxo, however, went to Terriblecar Heaven.

It's still as cheap. About 7 zlotys for a beer.

I have started a free betting league with a software company that  i use occasionally. There are prizes for all winners. It is for the Euros. The team name is The TEF. The link is below.


http://www.magix.com/gb/specials/the-magix-betting-game-for-all-football-fans/bet-maker/?tpmkr_join=00c64266ad1b326a6dc0e6359c0c78e51348 (http://www.magix.com/gb/specials/the-magix-betting-game-for-all-football-fans/bet-maker/?tpmkr_join=00c64266ad1b326a6dc0e6359c0c78e51348)

Right, I have to do this Euro prediction thing which includes picking 5 goal scorers.

They get 10 points for each goal they score. My personal predictions have the following 4 teams making it to the semis (Holland, Italy, Germany and France) so I guess it would be good to have 5 goalscorers from these teams. Although maybe a Spanish player would be useful as well (Llorente?).

I am not really au fait with International football, although I personally think France will do quite well so Benzema is a must.

Any feedback gratefully appreciated.

My fours semi finalists would be Spain, France, Germany and Holland.

The five goalscorers would be Villa, Benzema, Holland, One of Gomez or Klose (Not sure who Germany play), I would take a chance on Roman Pavleychenko.  Russia in the weakest of the four groups and may be a chance for a half decent striker to fill his boots a tad in the group stage.

Villa is injured surely? I think RVP and Benzema are definites and Gomez or Klose will be another. Good point about the Russians, does Pav play up front for them? Thinking maybe Sneijder as well.

I imaging Löw will go with Gomez. But given Kloses' recorded at tournaments I would go with him

I was thinking Klose as well but will be hacked off if he doesn't get much game time!!

Ronaldo would be a decent bet. Portugal have a difficult group, but he's different gravy

Him or Pogrebnyak.

Yeah I personally don't think Portugal are going to get out of that group. Think Ronnie might get hacked off playing with inferior players and try too hard to do it all himself, Ronaldo won't be in my 5, but thanks for the suggestion.

Confirmed Villa is out.  I fancy LLorente to bag a few.

So Ruddy has pulled out of the squad to be replaced by Butland... who played in our league this year! Strange how he was deemed top 4 'keeper material, as I would assume Wes was nowhere near despite playing more games and keeping more clean sheets for the L2 champions.

24 League Two games and progression through the England Youth set-up has earned him a decent summer of experience. A very luck chap but fair play to him.

Personally, I'd have a player like Fraser Forster in reserve but there's really no point debating over who gets the No.23 jersey.

I'm not taking issue (although my post may look like that!) just wanted to raise awareness for those who rely on the TEF for their news.

Makes you wonder.... does Butland represent England giving youth a chance or just a severe lack of quality English keepers?

Jack Butland has superb potential so I would lean towards the former within your point.

Many national teams give their 3rd choice jersey to either up-and-coming goalkeepers or veterans who can also act as coaches.


Butland has to build in this though. Problem for him is that Birmingham didn't get promoted so I'm sure they would be reluctant to send him on loan to anyone within their level. Unless they are willing to allow him to compete for a starting place at St. Andrews.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

But Mr Campbell had this advice for fans thinking of travelling to Euro 2012: "Stay at home, watch it on TV. Don't even risk it… because you could end up coming back in a coffin."

:D

It does raise the question why Uefa awarded Poland and Ukraine the tournament.

I fully agree with the argument that it wasn't as bad as it once was but they are still considerably behind other countries in dealing with racism/ holliganism. More of a social thing I expect.

Massive bribery I'd imagine

But they're not Italian?!  :D

sol campbell is a massive bellend

What a fucking idiot.

On a positive note for England, Gareth Barry has been ruled out of Euro 2012.

His name always sounded to me as if he should have been playing for Wales anyway.  In pretty much the same way that Rob Andrew should have been playing rugby for Scotland.

Barry's had a fantastic season for City.

Just a shame Carrick wasn't included in the 23, one of England's best technical players. (of which there are very few)

Well as we said at the time he has himself to blame.

So do people reckon you can play Lampard and Gerrard in the same midfield then?

I think he merited being in the 23 in the 1st place.

He should've accepted to be on the standby list though, agreed.

History has proven that it doesn't work. It'll happen though.

Never realised Rob Andrew played rugby, thought he just kicked balls into touch for a few years. The rugby version of a 'crazy gang' Wimbledon footballer minus the personality. An anti-rugbyista if there ever was one.

 
 :hmmm:

 Obviously you can, but if you want to win a few games then history proves it's not advisable.

I would hazard a guess we have won more than we have lost with those 2 in the middle.Would also guess they have probably scored a decent total between them.Often think these 2 basically get the majority of flak for us having shit strikers,wingers etc

The answer to our midfield woes.

to be fair after seeing the footage, it doesn't look great in ukraine if your not a whitey

move along, i'm sure they'll just ask for the cameras to point away during the tournament

Some poor bastard is going to get killed I reckon

The authorities will make sure that ultras won't get tickets for the games. Even if they do it will be a negligible amount. The only trouble there will be (quote me on this if you like) is travelling ultras from Croatia, Russia, Greece etc arranging fights with the local ultras.

The Metalist ultras, seemed to like Lazio...so Paolo

After watching that, it still feels shameful knowing that our beloved manager has participated in such gesturing.

The problems won't be inside the stadia.  It will be outside.

Just what suits in UEFA and FIFA can give tournaments to these countries.

In the 80s it was always cited England's dreadful hooliganism problem was the reason for not awarding us a tournament.

And as for Qatar for the World Cup . . . don't get me started.

Fuck me panorama has hooked a few tonight.We had this with the last world cup,they had people thinking they would be returning with aids and being car jacked everyday.Yes they got problems but so do we.We got people trying to bomb us,had to place missiles on buildings in london.Fuck me i could do a episode on last years race riots that would deter white people from wanting to come here.Must mean someones going to die at the olympics

I know.

At least give yourself a challenge.

well said

Elements of eastern European football fans in racism/violence shocker.

There wasn't really anything surprising in that program, it's just the way it is over there. Clearly wrong but it won't ever change.

Having recently made the mistake of going out in Eastern Europe in a skirt I can confirm that they're not too hot on homosexuality either.

[lazyandunfaircheaplaugh]Probably best that Sol Campbell doesn't go in all honesty [/lazyandunfaircheaplaugh]

Stag do?

The fact that in Ukraine it didn't seem like there was any control inside the stadia. Give a fuck attitudes.

As if it isn't bad enough to have one fuckwit from Liverpool in the squad, we now have, if possible, an even worse player in as replacement for Lampard.

Never thought I'd see the day when such utter shite was deemed good enough to represent my country.

Come on you boys in green!!!

Cant believe Henderson is in the squad, him and Downing have been terrible this year.

Midfield 2 will be Gerrard and Parker then, pray they dont get injured otherwise CM will look very very weak

Shows just how little strength in depth we have.

Well we have Wilshere who is a great prospect, Carrick would have got in their for me, Cleverley possibly. A CM pairing of Milner and Henderson doesnt fill me with much confidence

Not read all this thread, so I could be completely wrong here. But I'm really surprised Russia haven't been tipped to do well this tournament.  Easy-ish group, virtually playing at home (well Eastern Europe), decent squad, cracking manager, they could do pretty well I reckon.  They won't do anything now I've tipped them.

Good each way bet I reckon.

Well they have ruled most of the it in the last 100 years!

8th favourites for the title @25/1 with Skybet at the moment. Think that's pretty good value. 

Relax, sit back and enjoy lots of televised football.

Gunna be in Spain for the quarters/semis so wont be able to sit back that much as Spain will rocking I hope

I saw bits and pieces of World Cup 2006 while at a festival in Belgium, it was great.

I'm gonna have a little e/w flutter on the Czechs at 66/1 based on how wide open that Group A is.  No 2 team combination getting out of that group would surprise me  

How good are the czechs though, have they some some decent youngster coming through, Saw them play a year or two back and they looked passed it then, so unless they do have some decent fresh blood I can't see them getting passed the quarters.  But you never know.

I'm a bit concerned that we might be in for a snorefest of negative football.  Hope I'm wrong, but Spain have cast a bit of a shadow on the rest...so we've seen anti football tried by first the Dutch in the WC, which nearly worked then Chelsea on Barca in the CL.

We're unlikely to be pulling up any "beautiful game" trees, and the Italians will be their usual self, with a seemingly limited squad.

Think France will be pragmatic, and a couple of the groups look tough, so teams will look to avoid losing early group games.

Germany offer the best bet of something interesting as Jogi Loew seems a bit of a cavalier. Portugal may also be worth a watch as they have the stand out individual player, but not sure what else they've got.

They don't have any fresh blood.  Sadly (given my heritage), your assessment is spot on.  Abra, save your cash!

Let's put it this way......

Even Magera didn't make the squad

I was in Magaluf when Spain won the WC, it went fucking mental. By far the craziest night i have ever had!!!! Hopefully be a repeat of that in a months time!

I flew into greece the day they won the euros.

Our bus driver to the hotel was pissed.

Scary times!

With Lampard out and Henderson in the self-imposed Carrick-sized hole in our midfield looks more ominous than ever.  Such a shame - I genuinely think he would now have a chance of starting had he not thrown a strop.

Greek bus drivers are always pissed

They drive like that all the time

Anyone fancy doing a fantasy league?

I'll set one up on here if enough wanna do it.
http://en.euro2012fantasy.uefa.com/
This ones free..

Would be up for that.

Yea, I'll do it.

Code is: 146162-48329

I'm in.  TEF Slinky FC.

I have no idea how these things work but want to play .....

So do I haveto click on the register bit first and go through all that before it lets me play?

Count me in..

Go on then.

'ere we go then.

Athletico Lomas

Team's in.

Can a Newbie join? 

Team done.

Cee Uuu Next Tuesday

Fell asleep last night so only done it now, Im England Please Win. I wonder how I thought of that...

Luftputefartøyet SK has entered...

How many of us chose Coxy as our cheapo forward?

Haha me too

Don't have a cheap forward, splashed out on Lewandowski, Benzema and Pogrebnyak. Cox is my profile picture though!

Nah my cheap striker was Jelavic, only 5 points  ;)

Didn't mean to do that sorry...

I'm in.

Jeremy Beadle's Hand

I must say my kit is quite sexy. Beige shorts.

i only did it because of you two

I am in.

Team Name ..... Come On India

Rat Out! Rangers submitted.

Oxlade chamberlain and welbeck to start tomorrow

Done

 Suicidal Snowmen

Sporting Lederhosen.

England really are poor and bloody awful to watch. Players seem obsessed with keeping position and doing nothing else.

That's what we need to learn to do though tbh.Have always given the ball away to cheaply,may not be pretty yet but good to see us not hitting long after 2 passes.

We're not keeping the ball though, although Belgium are. Luckily for us they can't defend.

But we are trying to though which is important.

Nice little advert with Gazza just then, for anyone who saw it

Shame you cant understand him

Ha

He looks like he's half-dead though. 

Definitely an advert for the don't drink/do drugs campaigns.

Glen Johnson is not an international footballer

If football is entertainment, what are England?

We have certainly look more organised in the last 2 games. Its not pretty on the eyes as two 1-0's would suggest but it could well get us out of the group playing like this.

Adequate performance, Belgium are no mugs.

So Cahill and Terry have injury scares, I guess Roy can't go back to Ferdinand if we need a new CB given he was left out for "footballing reasons".

Highlight of the game was the Belgian physio wearing jeans.

Was at the game. Thought we were pretty bad and how on earth did gerrard get motm? Nobody impressed although fellaini and hazard looked good and scotland face an uphill battle in the world cup qualifiers against them.

Strange how people see different games.Thought Hazard was poor,32m for him makes carrol look a bargain.We wasn't great but 31 days after taking over he has produced 2 wins.Good enough for me

Scotland have nothing to worry about with Belgium. Think you're forgetting what a tactical mastermind Avril is and what amazing strength in depth the current Scottish national squad has. I mean I don't think any 4th tier players have turned down an invite from Avril, just yet.

It wasn't a great game, and we lacked drive going forward. BUT we kept Hazard quiet, and Belgium's only real chances of the game were one poor header and a speculative shot which hit the post.

I thought Glen Johnson had a poor game, and we dived into tackles too often. I think what could make or break England will be whether or not we make use of the wings. Belgium defended against it pretty well today but we did create a couple of opportunities from wide positions that could have resulted in goals.

Overall, not inspiring but a job done against decent opposition.

I feel instead of playing two friendlies the players could have done with a week off....they all look jaded to me....and players with little niggles would have time to rest up after a season has just finished.

Trying new tactics a week before your first match seems pointless to me....Norway was a good workout and that should have been it in my view.

Cos Andy Townsend is a muppet !

The two friendlies were no different to domestic equivalents in July/August.

They should be considered a light run-out and nothing more. Nowadays, I wouldn't pay to travel to Wembley unless it was a competitive match.

I'm glad we didn't tonk either side as it would have resulted in the increase of silly expectations. Also, I'm glad that we didn't lose or draw as it would have been a week of people saying "we're losing to teams like Norway and Belgium, we might as well not be there" blah blah blah

I think we're more limited than bad...the players at least looked to be putting in a bit of effort, which makes a change....with France coming up, no real idea of what to expect from them.  By all accounts Blanc has sorted out the mess of the end of the Domenech regime.  Benzema is an improving player for Real, and should be way too good for us.

Yep...i am sure Cahil enjoyed his light run out......waste of time and energy a week before a real tough opening match.

You have got to bear in mind that none of the England players want to get injured, whereas the Belgium players are off to a beach somewhere today, one last blow out for them.

The england players should have been playing at 80-90%.

Anyone that expected a great balls out performance from England in either of these friendlies was expecting too much.  They were 2 run outs, that's all.  Equivalent to Supermarine and Cirencester for town in July.

Dont agree Berni.....not many of our first team will play v Supermarine or Cirencester...will be full of trialists and youngsters....with a few of the main lads.
England put the first team out a week before a crunch match.....maybe i am in the minority in my thinking but i think that is nuts.
Not sure the manager would have been to happy with having to play it either.
As it happens i think we looked solid and if we can get through the group we have as good a chance as any in the knockout stages.

Ok, not literally Supermarine or Cirencester, but you get the point I was trying to make?

Cahill out, Martin Kelly drafted in as his replacement. Hmmm

Would rather Micah Richards

Id rather Micah Richards or even Dawson actually. I quite like Liverpool but how they now have 6 players in the squad is ridiculous. If Terry isnt fit for the euros then the CB position will be very weak

Agree on Micah Richards. More so for his versatility...and the fact he's better at right back than Glenn Johnson.

Just call Rio Ferdinand up, If it was just footballing issues as Roy said it was then surely would have no problem calling him up...

But it wasn't just footballing issues was it.

I'm guessing that he asked Ferdinand & Terry if they could play together & Rio said No way.
If that was the case then it left Hodgson with no choice, you can't have the players dictating who is in the squad.

Is Martin Kelly a CB?

He's Liverpools backup right back.

If that is the case why is Ferdinand tweeting 'what reasons????'

Deffo a strange one regarding Rio. Does look dodgy and always has to be honest

Feel sorry for Cahill.  All happened from a totally unecessary shove in the back from the belgian dick aswell. Cahill is a bigger loss than all of those we have lost so far IMO.

Kelly is lightweight, should be giving Richards or Ferdinand the call up.

Are there no other English CBs in the country ? Is that why we have called up Liverpools reserve team RB?

Hand on heart I'd never even heard of martin Kelly until about 30 minutes ago.

Seen him a few times for Liverpool this season and tbf he looks like a decent prospect.

Yeah, having never heard of him I've got no opinion whatsoever. Just surprised he's in ahead off more estabilised players.

Cahill was a nailed on starter so bringing in Liverpool's second choice full back is a strange one. People are going nuts over it like they have since Woy named the inital squad so it is entertaining, to me at least.

People would've bitched about whoever he brought in.

If he's got potential and Hodgson thinks he'll be a regular by 2014, why not put him in now for experience? It's not like we're gonna win the fucking thing anyway.

Agree herthab, it's just a shame it's not instead of Terry.

People were moaning after South Africa that we should have a clear out and go with the kids.  All the replacements have been kids and people are still moaning saying we should put an injury prone hasbeen in instead.

I think this is the best thing that can happen.  The tournament is a write off anyway so pack the squad full of youngsters and start building for the future.  It worked for Germany, and spain to a certain extent.

True, but Germany also invested in youth. Their FA told the clubs to do so and they did. Our national team has long since been sacrificed for the glory of the Premier League.

Agreed, report in the paper this this weekend about how much money Chelsea have spent on players so far this close season, something like £82m. Why on earth bother with a youth team?

Can only see it getting worse with EPPP.  Even more promising young players collected by Premier League teams to sit in their youth teams / reserves instead of developing by playing competitive football.

The micah richards situation interests me.I can't be the only one to think there must be something behind the scenes that is making every national manager overlook him,i notice mancini also dropped him.In regards to youngsters i do think we have been unfortunate that wilshire.cleverly,walker and smalling are injured as it would of given hodgson a chance to use them.

Kelly is a good player,bur Richards is a much better player at this moment in time.

That EPPP is a friggin disgrace, PL just greedy, robbing bastards

Agree completely re: Richards. As fans we see him play well a lot of the time on a saturday, but as we've seen with PdC last season that's only part of what goes into managers' thinking. Attitude off the pitch, training etc all play a part and as you say DRS it's beyond a coincidence now that he is so regularly not selected, that there must be an underlying issue there that we don't know about.

With the Ferdinand thing, whether or not Roy made the right call picking Kelly over him, I intensely dislike the entitled response he gave through his agent yesterday. Something along the lines of 'this is no way to treat someone who has played for and captained his country so many times'. So what? Representing England is a priviledge not a right, and just because you've done it lots in the past in no way means the current boss is obliged to pick you - otherwise Shilton would still be in the squad.

To be honest, with the way the press and much of the public I've seen on here, twitter etc seem to have jumped down Hodgson's throat over his squad and written him off already, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we actually had a decent tournament.

The goal is hopefully to development and enhance English junior football to the point that the bigger clubs cannot possibly accommodate the entire talent pool. At this moment in time they can, which in footballing terms is frightening.

Ending 11 vs. 11 football for kids who are under 13 is a good start. The current situation is certainly more to do with how the country have developed children (as mentioned above) since the 1980's than a few injuries, MIA's and a new manager.

I didnt realise that Rio's agent was Jamie Moralee.

Crap striker he was.

Can't play forever Rio

I think Mancini and Capello both thought him not tactically disciplined enough to stick to the systems they wanted to play

Micah Richards played 37 games for the Champions last season. He has to contend with Zabaleta as his competition - both players would be stand out first choice in most other teams.

I assume he hasnt been called up as a replacement because he refused to go on the standby list.

Why he wasnt in the original squad I dont know - a much, much better player than Glenn Johnson.

Glenn Johnson is poo.

He was absolutely horrific on Saturday. If Kelly is back up to him, we are in deep shit.

The last thing these young England players need is to be thrown in to a major tournament without any experience players around them, get thrashed (because they lack the experience and not to mention they're not international level yet) and subsequently get absolutely annihilated and written off by the press and fans.

Germany in 2010 still had Klose, Schweinsteiger, Mertesacker, Friedrich, Lahm and Podolski who were experienced Internationals, same with Spain.

The young England players need to be integrated slowly and with seasoned campaigners around them.

fuck em, throw them in the deep end, if they're good enough to play/be on the books for the top flight then they're good to play for the national side. sink or swim the best way.

Looking at players age and caps earned, England have a nice blend of youth and experience in the current squad.

Age is not an issue, strength and depth is (which is an issue that goes beyond Euro 2012).

Not how it works. Players need to be integrated slowly and when they're ready, not just for the sake of it.

By your reasoning, Jay Spearing and Bradley Johnson are international footballers just because they play for a top flight side?

Spearing for England!

I'm with Mr. Verve

I'm all for the youngsters playing and I do not like John Terry, but the have to have some guidance from older heads while they find their feet.

fair point though, surely if they're playing at man u, city, arsenal, chelsea then they should be learning from the experienced players anyway? if they're not then there must be something wrong?

You would hope so but just because you play for one of those sides doesn't necessarily mean you're good enough to play for England.

Most teams that do well in tournaments are ones who have the right blend of youth and experience. Look at the Italy team in 2006, the core was of experience players (who had failed in tournaments in the past) along with younger players in and around the team to freshen things up.

I can't think of a national side who have won a major tournament or got to the latter stages made up only of young players.

Not sure i agree with this latest statement from Platini

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18338838

I mean reacting to fans calling you a wanker is one thing and the player in question should probably be booked but getting booked after being racially abused is
a bit of a shocker, good luck to the referees in this tournament.

Anyone else thinks this tournament could be a fucking shambles.

Could very easily get farcical....for example the Czech's have Theodore Selassie, and they play Poland and Russia...very easy to see this lad get abuse and so the ref has to take the sides off...

Defoe has flown home after the passing of his dad, nothing said as to if he will go back or a replacement will be sent.

Rio is waiting anxiously.   :eek:

scrap that, just read that no replacement will be flown in.

There's just something about England and championships - always distractions off the pitch.

Mind you, with the usual shite served up on the pitch, maybe that's a good thing.

Sad to hear the news regarding Black Dutch players being subjected to Monkey chants in training today  :no:

Why did they award Euro 2012 to a bunch of fucking neanderthals? Disgusting

Like I heard Sol Campbell say today, if you want to host major competitions like the Euros you should have to clean up your act beforehand. It's easy to monitor domestic leagues to see if a country has been tackling racism, and whether it would be suitable for hosting.

There are always going to be a minority of imbeciles wherever you hold it, but you can see where this one is going.

Not that FIFA would give a..... monkeys... of course.

The key word there is should, in reality you just need to grease the right palms and you're in.

I don't believe that UEFA is any better than FIFA nowadays, Platini is becoming more like Blatter by the day.

Rumours on Facebook that a group of Poland attacked a bar full of 300 England & Ireland fans in Poland last night, can't see it being true, why would England fans be in Poland, unless they are at the training camp and fancy making the 800 odd mile trip to our first game Monday. Think we'll be seeing a few rumours like this throughout the tournament..

Platini is a cock for saying players will be booked if they leave the pitch. That's just going to give the racist wankers even more reason to use the racist chants now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18363736

Oh dear not a good start, but don't worry folks the monkey chants aimed at the dutch black players weren't down to racism, they were protests that no matches are to be held in that town. So that's okay then.

I really hope one day countries will leave UEFA & FIFA en masse, as the people running the game are a disgrace.

That's exactly what should happen. The only problem is that the men in charge of the various FA's are just as incompetent/corrupt as UEFA and FIFA and they go hand in glove with each other.

Hey, come on. That's wrong. You've missed out the Premier League. They've fucked over the England team and lower league football just for a bit more cash.

This story  (1 Apr 2012) was no April fools joke:

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/57142-fa-anger-over-racism-fine


it tells you all you need to know about how seriously UEFA takes racism.

I'm not saying we in England take the morale high ground here, it was only in the late 80's that the Big bananas and monkey chants were common place in most football grounds. Its more that we did more to address it than turning a blind eye and issuing token fines.

Interesting to Simon Cox start for Ireland tonight

Biggest match of his career no doubht  vs Spain in the Euro's,  15/2 anytime scorer  ;D

Can't see anything but a Spanish win myself, maybe by 3 or more goals

Not likely if the bloke who looks like Rene from 'allo 'allo plays Paul Harts tactics

I think he's going to go 3-7-0. I'm not psuedo-Irish, but I'll cheer them on as underdogs. Especially if Spain are as boring and patient as they were against the Italians.

Cox starting tonight for the irish

Starting in midfield in a 4-5-1 role, Behind the striker I assume? Or will he play on the left again.

I think he will be the striker with Keane in behind him

it would be nice for him to bag a goal for ireland, what time does it kick off?

Well with the Russians any time you fancy it seems.

First time we've had a proper old boy play in a major tournament since the Fridge did a memorable marking job on Ronaldo, in the 98 WC.  :)

:D Good from you

All crumbs gratefully accepted. ;D

Anyone else agree that there is just something very unsavoury about the countries that used to make up Yugoslavia.

Croatian flags in the crowd emblazoned with pictures of some military leader. Them and the Serbs make my skin crawl

Croatia is a beautiful country with extremely nice people based on my 2 holidays there.

No doubt. But I would imagine every country with a large tourist industry puts on its best face

I love Croatia! One of my favourite country's.

Which military leader?

For a moment there I expected Rideout to appear out of the smoke and smack it in the back of the filth net

I need to get some sleep

One of those that murdered thousands no doubt. Karadic? Not sure if he's Serb or Croat. On trial at the moment for war crimes

Simon Cox starts for the Irish against Spain tonight.

He earned it for his effort when coming on against the Croats.

Good luck to him.

He did more than McGeady did within the first 60 seconds of coming on. McGeady is lucky to keep his place.

Cox was gash against the croats, although they all were tbf

I think that's pretty harsh on him (and my opinion is has nothing to do with his Swindon past).

As much as I love the bloke it's pretty sad state of affairs for Eire if they are starting a striker who is realistically a top-end championship player.

Well they have a world class coach in charge....so getting the nod over Long and others is a big up to Coxy.

Well, the Irish are fucked then...

Cracking finish from Torres.

As much as I didn't like the bloke, doesn't Fallon count as an ex-Town player competing in a major tournament in WC2010?

Dunne is so slow....

I'm willing Coxy to do well, but the truth is he doesn't seem to be getting a sniff (at least based on my interrupted viewing).  Spain are just too good.

Started well enough and then duly disappeared.

Started watching the second half, and had to give up. It's painful to watch

Good work. Somehow I forgot about the Kiwi's, I think, undefeated WC. 

If Spain had decided to step up a gear (and they could) then this could have been far, far worse for the Irish.

Roy Keane wasn't best pleased with the Irish performance then?

Think he was spot on.  Must be bad enough seeing your country taken apart like that but to have to listen to the patronising commentary on the spirit of the “Oirsh” from ITV was pretty grim.

“Oooh look at the fans singing along”

“Fair to say they will be having a drink tonight”

Why not go the whole hog and stuff a spud up his arse.

Well said Keane. He has a good point

I like you.

Nah it wouldn't have been him, he's a Serb. It could have been Ante Gotovina, he's a "war hero" in Croatia.

No Sweden v England matchday thread?

Get in there Walcott.

Now get Chamberlain on too

just saw a swindon flag

Jesus christ we are getting murdered on the break. This is Sweden FFS, decent but imagine if we had to play Spain.

And what a finish from DW!

It maybe uncomfortable but I've missed this :)

Hahahaha! We're not going to go very far in this tournament (unless we ride some serious luck) but that was amazing.

Was a good game, good being entertaining.

The frog game was very organised, this wasn't.

I still have no idea of how we might do

Defence was a fucking shambles. Didn't get the ball out wide enough. Didn't put enough crosses in. Weren't strong enough in the tackle. Midfield totally disorganised.

Fuck knows why Milner and Young were out wide and Walcott was left on the bench.

Sweden were there for the taking and we were only saved by Walcott and an incredible finish by Welbeck.

If we play like that against anyone decent we're fucked.

We did, and won 1-0 quite recently  :doh:

Just as Sweden were saved from losing 5-2 by two wonder saves from Gerrard and Terry.

...but we're not good enough for all that mumbo-jumbo anyway, so relax!

I enjoyed us beating Sweden tonight. Erik Hamren standing motionless after our third. The silencing of their fans. Brilliant.

A Ukraine win is nowhere near a certainty but there's no harm in enjoying this fortunate win.

Also, what caused the Hart vs. Ibrahimovic altercation?

Yes but we didn't defend like that :)

To be honest the quater finals would be a good achievement.

Talking of which, I thought the Oirish fans were superb last night. I guess its easier in the face of hoplessness (like us v Forest in that 7-1)

Pffft. One song, they only had one song.

 :bye:

We might not have the pretty, pretty stuff of Spain et al but we have something no other team has


BOLLOCKS

Talking of that one song... Is it the same one the scoucers sing at Anfield?

Good game...good win.

Unbeaten so far and we look to be qualified.

Great effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fields_of_Athenry

For the record i hate it!

Hart said he liked the start of Life of Brian...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnzFx7-5hhY

I bloody knew it.

Message to Gerrard-stay on your feet you cheating dick! Walcott did when a lot of players would have gone down in the box and set up the winner.

Message to Gerrard,Great fucking cross for the goal

.....still a cheat

Am I the only who has become completely detatched from the national side?

I watched the game but didn't feel a thing, didn't care we went behind or that we came back to win 3-2. I can honestly say I couldn't give a flying fuck with England. I just hope I can reserect my passion for the team like I had 8-10 years ago.

He was fouled tonight,outsidethe box.Every fucking player goes down when touched now

I felt that before the Euros.

however as the tournament has gone on i've found myself caring more.

tonight when I put on my England shirt i was excited about the game and looking forward to it. Something I havent felt in ages!

I try to be detached but can't. Love Towm , Love England. Both Sweden and England were pretty crap but it was a good game. The rest of Europe won't be quaking in their boots but we won. Wellbeck is going to be a very good player as long as he keeps learning. We won despite some pretty poor perofrmances out there - Young was shit again, Cole was better but still not great and Gerrard ( apart from one cross ) was shite. We've got 4 points and haven't really got going.  

I give a fuck and i love the fact that we finally seem to have a manager who gives a fuck.People saying tonight was typical england are wrong,at 2-1 we would of lost that game.With Hodgson and even neville on the sidelines i get the impression that given time they can remind the next batch of players that playing for england shouldnt be a chore.

I was detached but then with the game on in the background I get drawn in. Ending up getting wound up yet again by all the fucking stupid school boy mistakes and them making poor opponents look half decent. Whilst we haven't got the best team, we have got some decent players and they always turn in to fucking morons as soon as they put on an England shirt.

Even the pundits were winding me up, applauding Hodgson for the game changing substitution rather than criticising him for picking the wrong players in the first place. Only in Hodgson World is Milner a better player than Walcott.

Agreed. Think Hodgson (& Neville) could do great things for England.

Bollocks Jonny,like most you are happy to jump on the anti bandwagon.People like you thrive on us losing or just point out the negative.For everything bad you pointed out you choose to ignore that Bar the goals Hart had fuckall saves to make,we scored 3 good goals from open play,the keeper has made 3 superb saves.

Based on my expectations we've already overachieved. I'm hoping at the end of this tournament we can remove the "golden generation" and crack on with the youngsters. In Roy I trust.

It's BACK ON!

Also Jonny, Milner in my opinion is a far better player and option than Walcott.
9 times out of ten his shot would of gone into row Z, and his cross for the goal would have gone out for a throw.
He's a rich mans Ricky Shakes with no dancing.

Not at all. I just get frustrated when they make stupid mistakes that they shouldn't be making. I'm one of the deluded few that think we've got a team capable of winning it (though I always think that) but they won't win anything playing like that.

The goals we scored showed what we are capable of. But how many good crosses in to the box was there other than Gerrard's for the first goal? How times did our wingers run at the defence other than Walcott for the third goal? How many times did they keep things simple and pass the ball around?

I thought they looked a bit nervous, or were lacking confidence. Which is something I don't remember seeing before.


Sure, Walcott lacks consistency but when he's at his best he's a far better player than Milner at his best. 

this. THIS THIS THIS THIS. Not so much against Johnny, but english 'fans' in general.

Also, feel free to shoot this down, but tonight was the first time I have ever seen the entire England XI sing the national anthem. I know it means nothing (the spanish don't sing and they're really good soapy tit wank), but i found it refreshingly good to see

I usually find international football quite dull but Euro 2012 has been great for the most part. Not really fussed about the England team but find myself supporting them this time round out of a sense of sympathy for Hodgson and the response to his appointment.

The England team are very average and the usual problem of high expectations doesn't seem to have reared it's head...yet.

And I've never seen a player so disinterested as Ibrahimovic. Strolls around waiting for the ball, never passes and has a go at his teammates yet is still untouchable.

Good player though.

I reckon with a bit of luck we will get to the Semis.

I can feel it in my water

Nope, Euro 2004 killed me off.

I got to the stage where I actually enjoyed England cocking it up and seeing the hysteria over facebook, in the pubs and in the papers and the like.

Now with Hodgson in charge and with him being doubted by most (who wanted Redknapp - who incidentally isnt as good a manager as Hodgson anyway)  I at least wanted Hodgson to do well.

England did well against France, like Germany lite or something. Good attacking play against Sweden but some terrible defending and Sweden were nothing more than average.

I found the celebratory facebook status' cringey though....

I think that you will find that the reason that the spanish players do not sing is because there are no words to their anthem. Their supporters just la,la,la to the tune.

Take your point re the anthem and good to see however, rather than a new found sense of patriotism I would suggest that Roy has told them all that they must sing.

Agree dirk and that sort of backs up my point that he cares.We won't win it of course but if we at least go out trying then he will win a few over.

Funny, the Gerrard hate. I thought he actually was our most creative player.

Johnson annoys me. I want to hate him, but some of his recoveries are class (the last ditch tackle on Elm).

Carroll's header was great. Probably haven't seen England score a goal like that since Shearer was in the team.

Anyone else see Ibrahimovic give Joe Hart the big one after Sweden's second? I hope one of the England players did the same to him at the final whistle, the egotistical prick. Perhaps if he tried passing once in a while instead of trying to go it alone, he might've created a few decent chances.

jonny for England manager, he knows better than Woy

Good points raised. This might sound stupid, but maybe my falling out of love with the England team stems from the realisation that we're not as good as the media make us out to be. I think you're right about Neville tying to instill passion back into the setup and I think if he and Hodgson can do that, then maybe we as fans will connect better with the team.

I remember Euro 96 and how the whole country was behind the team and I think we need something like that to be able to recreate that togetherness.

He nicked Hart's water in the goal as well when it was 2-2

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IBRAHIMOVIC.gif

I really enjoyed the game, can't remember ever shouting at the tv so loud when England scored! Milner is better all round than walcott , gerrard played very well i thought (what a fucking cross!!), nice to see a bit of fight in the team for once!!

Gerrard's a funny one. I think he's massively over-rated, but he's been Englands best player in the past two games, and the last two tournaments as well. He's crucial to any success we have this year.

But I'd still rather have had Lampard there

To be fair to Ibrahimovic think if you replay it you will see that Hart pushed him first in the goalmouth. On the Milner/Walcott issue I don't see how people can compare them, they are two different players for two different styles of play which Roy changed. Milner is stronger and slightly more defensive and asked to do a different role. Anyway just nice to watch and enjoy and England game for once!

I very much enjoyed the game real end to end stuff, we didn't play as well as a team as we did against France but we won the game against a bogey side.

Roy has them well prepared and they knew how to play against Sweden but had a couple fo poor defensive lapses which could have easily cost s the game.

I thought Young and Johnson were poor, Milner is a much better team player than Walcott but Walcott to his credit came on and started running at them and they looked unable to handle his style.

Great goal by Carroll and Welbeck has impressed me so much in the last few games, he is one for the future of England.

I lost interest in England back in the early 80's when we got let down by them so much at big tournaments, so much so I hated the 86 World Cup and didn't watch one game......but I now enjoy it and although we won't win the cup we will have a good go at it and are much better organised than and England team have been recently even though the stand out players aren't in evidence so much as they have been in the past.

Was a typical England game really. Exciting with plenty of scary moments. Overall a pretty good show with room for improvement.
My main gripe is that the wide players have not been crossing the ball enough and give the ball away too much. It took Gerrard to show how to cross it and the header was superbly dispatched by Carroll. There is nothing wrong with trying to win the English way and we don't have to try to emulate the Spanish to win games. Gerrard is having a great tournament so far and i think the other player who deserves similar credit is Johnson who too has had 2 decent matches. Not convinced Wellbeck meant that goal but who cares?

Walcot should start in place of Milner next game but he could have a mare as he is inconsistant,equally this could be his tournament. Who knows unless he plays?
I'd give Young the benefit of the doubt and start him but will have Chamberlain ready and waiting to come on if he doesn't do the business on monday.

I think Woy will drop Carroll but i would drop Wellbeck myself, play Rooney in behind the big man and hope to get crosses in the box as much as possible.

One thing that had me going nuts was the backpass out of defence. WTF was that all about?

Good result, very average performance.

Players i thought did well was Gerrard, Welbeck, Walcott and Carroll, as for the rest, they were way below standard.
Our defence was a fucking joke for the first 20 mins in the second half. It's been drummed into me that England under Roy will be very well organised
even if the quality may not be there, Hmm :hmmm:

There were some positives however, like i mentioned the players above, and the way we fought back and won the game was impressive, and showed spirit.
Im not worried for the future because we have some very good young players coming through, Wiltshire, Barkley etc.
Hopefully like someone posted before with Neville and Hodgson guidance there drum in the importance and pride of wearing an England shirt.

I enjoyed the game, it was entertaining. Carroll put in a real 'Drogba' shift, chasing down everything, scored an exceptional header, and made some invaluable clearances in our own box. We have a few weak links, sure... but they all seemed to be putting the effort in. If Glen Johnson was half decent defensively (his saving tackles are often because of his own balls-ups) we'd look a bit more solid, but I'm fairly happy so far.

As long as they put a shift in and look interested, I'm please with what Roy has achieved.

Woy has a big call to make here....why should Rooney walk back into the starting XI, he's been shit for England for years, disgracefully got himself sent off again and suspended. I wouldn't have taken him, but he should start on the bench.

Totally agree with that

Can't argue much with that but i wouldn't say he's been any shitter than any of the others. He is a top player though and if he is right(like the others seem to be) then he would be a massive plus in the side. I'd play him for the tactical reasons i mentioned previously.

Because he is our best player by far.

On which England performance do you base that?-6 years ago?

Whilst i don't think Rooney is the world class player that many think he is it's plain crazy to suggest he should be left on the bench on Tuesday.

He quite simply a better player than the others strikers in the squad.

Jimmy Greaves was a better player than Geoff Hurst, but Greaves lost his place to injury, Hurst came in and did a job and Jimmy had to sit it out when he became available for the latter stages. Rooney has done nothing to merit preferential treatment.

35 goals in 44 games last season should and will justify meriting preferential treatment.

Play the best 11 players, now isn't the time for any other logic.

Play all 3 in a 4 3 3. What's the worst that could happen?

Rooney was in the squad to play in this game (and hopefully beyond).
There was no way that Hodgson would leave him out.

We haven't done too bad without the messiah, have we? Fuck him, put him on the bench. Carroll and Wellbeck deserve to start. Maybe that way Rooney will learn not to be a petulant selfish cunt

Would give Rooney a free role behind Wellbeck and Carroll.....leaving Milner on the bench.

Rooney will start just depends who partners him, i would have Carroll personally. Apart from that id leave the team as it was against Sweden and bring walcott/ox on when the Ukrainian get tired around the 65/70 minute mark

Young was much worse than milner yesterday,he should be replaced.

Close call but i think he will drop Carroll.....and play the same system like played v France.

Come on Poland/Czech Republic get a goal and knock the Russians out!

Well well, the Russians are out.  Bit of a shock there.

Did not expect Russia to get knocked out especially after their first game! I bet Group B and the likes of Germany and Portugal are licking their lips in prospect of facing the Czechs and Greeks

Interesting biography there. So in essence you gave up on England because of them letting you down in the 1980 & 82 tournaments, which weren't really massive failures, Eng went out in 80 due to their defeat to the hosts and were no disgraces in 82 either, weird format..  All this only 14/16 years after winning the WC, that's like giving up today if England had won Euro 96 or WC 98. Unbelievable.

And what a World Cup (86) to boycott, fantastic tournament, probably the best one I can recall, a bit of me thinks you deserved to not see it for being such a fair weather supporter though, you big jessie.

totally agree with that

The Russians going out as the Czechs win.  Unexpected icing on a surprise cake.  Do toho!

I spent thousands following England back in 82,83,84 and 85 I was in Spain when we fucked up in the 2nd round in 82, which was a failure, I went with them all accross europe with England and we were poor, we failed to qualify for the Euros in 84 which was a failure.

We appointed Bobby Robson as manager who picked some of the worst England players on record. I was at Wembley when we played USSR in 84 when England put out one of the poorest performances ever against anyone when we lost 2-0 at home to a poor USSR side and we played players such as Duxbury, Roberts, Fenwick, Chamberlain, Hateley and Hunt.

We were awful back then, one of the worst England teams ever.

I was fed up with spending money following a team of non triers so I drifted away from England, and working in London at the time I was too busy to go and watch them as well.

I didn't miss Mexico one bit and enjoyed the rest from International football.

double post.

Only ever spent money to go to watch England once. Spent a fortune on a package of tickets for USA World Cup 94, only for England to bugger it up and not qualify. (The only saving grace being that I got to see Norway whilst wearing my STFC shirt)

I've seen England twice.

Once, God know how long ago this is, Wales away at Ninian Park and Francis Lee scored.

That was a bit tasty.

The other Northern Ireland at Wembley - so memorable I have no idea what the score was.

My ambition is to see England play the W. Indies in Barbados

UEFA investigating England fans for an attempted pitch invasion.

I can't help but think if they really wanted to invade the pitch, it would have happened.

mmm sounds like a pathetic feeble excuse to blame England fans for some trouble which has in the main been caused entirely by the host nations fans and Russia so far.

The story here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18476818

Fuck you EUFA

You can fine us every match and we'll still win the......

No wait, that doesn't work does it?

Too Italian :D

How the bloody hell are the groups decided when level on points, head to head right. But as of now in group B there are 3 teams on 3 points with a -1 GD. And the group was Portugal, Denmark Holland.

Head to head:

Holland 0 Denmark 1
Denmark 2 Portugal 3
Portugal 0 Holland 1

So is it just a mini group on goals scored or what.

And as I type Denmark level against ze Germans making the whole question pointless. But as I type that Portugal equalise through the ladyboy.

The dutch defence is shocking. That goal's been coming

You must have been a hard man to please back then, especially as now you're happy to watch the shite that Swindon have served up for the last x number of years.

86 qualification results included Turkey 0 England 8, England 5 Turkey 0, Northern Ireland 0 England 1. Very efficient qualifying. We all know what happened in the tournament itself. England started poorly but got better as the tournament progressed.

84' qualification was blown by losing to the 'dazzling Danes' one of the best European sides in modern times. Hardly a reason to give up on your country. But then again that seems to be a British trait, never giving the opposition credit for being better, just that your mob, whether it's England, Scotland or Wales, aren't trying or good enough. Most countries on the planet would have struggled to top a group containing the Danes back then.

Also was the USSR match even a competitive one? Just looked it up on Google, looks like it was a end of season friendly.

Your choice, but come on, a bit of you must be gutted you didn't go to Mexico, would have been an adventure of a lifetime. I wish I'd gone to more tournaments when I had nothing to stop me, like a wife and not qualifying. ;-)

How much have you spent watching Scotland?

It just reverts to GD, like it should do anyway as just about all the leagues in the world, when two or more teams are on the same number of points, it is decided by goal difference...except in Spain.

It should be GD, that way it makes all the games relevant.
Take tomorrow night, if Croatia & Spain draw 2-2 it wouldn't matter if Italy win 10-0 they will still be out under this mildly stupid system even though all the teams will be level on points.

Like that'd ever happen to Italy.

Nice goal. Holland are the biggest disapointment of the tournament

The Dutch are falling out with each other....again.

Chances of a denmark winner?

Haha zero

They should've had a pen with the German defender trying to swap shirts with Bendtner during the game...but Bender has just put the Germans ahead.

Not sure what that's got to do with it, but I'd say, not that much all in all a couple of grand I'd say.

I'm just interested in hearing the reasons on giving up on your country's team. To go from following your country, to effectively boycotting a tournament seems a little ott to me anyway.

Remember watching the Paraguay/England match in '86 whilst on holiday in Tunisia, cracking game that was. As for the Argie match, a sporting JFK moment if ever there was one.

As I've said before I love international football, which is probably the reason why I picked up on JJ's post.  I find it a bit sad when club football is treated as more important, such a shame the game's gone that way. Each to their own though I suppose.

Total football? Total shite from the Dutch!

Appreciate final appearances in 74, 78 and 88, but the dutch have to be one of the most over rated sides in the world. Pretty much always flatter to deceive and against the German's they seem to have a massive inferiority complex.

Glad they're out.

Edit 0 forgot to mention their disgraceful performance in 2010 WC final too. Another reason to shed no tears on this year's demise.

Agree with what you say Jan about supporting your country etc.What i hate more is the pride that some people show in telling people how shit england are.On here,facebook etc you know some people are gagging to just slate them at every opportunity.

I text a mate during the game to say "don't worry Lars Bender will save us" 5 mins later he did
Should have run down the bookies !

the ref in the italy/ireland was shocking, truly awful

Piss poor. Whistle, whistle, whistle.

i liked keith andrews reaction to getting sent off. he should have punted it at the ref's head

I see Bendtner has been fined 100,000 Euros and banned for a game for showing advertising which was on his pants, yet when racist behaviour happend, sides get fined £20k.

Shows where UEFA's priorities lie.

mick mccarthy, what a wanker

Couldn't agree more. If you don't care then why don't you just shut the fuck up!

Think it might have been this sort of thing that was pissing me off the other day after the France game. Led me to have a cheap dig at you and Scotland Jan. Apologies mate.

I'm better than that. Well, at least I like to think I am.

Don't disagree with that DRS, thing is I kind of understand non-englanders doing it on the wind up, but I don't understand it at all when English 'supporters' do it.  What's become very irritating in recent years is the 'I don't give a fuck about England' brigade, who suddenly become England's number one fan, then revert back to not giving a shit when they lose. Twitter on Friday night was a prime example of this. England losing - loads of stick from the masses, England winning - 'best night of my life' tweets. It's like people have lost the art of perspective these days.

No bother Paolo. I bite too much on here, everyone knows it (I think). It can be frustrating when people just think you're having a go all the time, when in truth I'm just trying to be neutral really.

Decent game between Spain and Croatia tonight. Spain weren't on form at all - lots of possession but almost got caught out a few times and only scored when Croatia started throwing men forward. Had one of the Croatians done better with a free header in the second half, Spain could well have been heading to the airport.

Watched the Irish game. Best performance out of the 3 but they were still pretty shite i thought.

Was hoping Croatia kicked the shit out of Spain - softening them up for us Saturday.

We'll have to knock a few in tomorrow and top the group.

Bring on the eyeties - looking forward to the Ukraine game and Mr Rooney.

Hope it dont all go tits up

I hope we get Spain, and then beat them.

Spain are boring as sin (even worse than our team) - but they will probably win the damn thing again

I'm a bit like this. Didn't really give a shit. But the appointment of Hodgson, the low expectation and   a major tournament has rekindled my interest a bit. Took me by surprise that did.

That said,  if we go out tonight I'd be mildly disappointed. I remember how gutted I was when we lost to Brazil in 2002 - what happened in those 10 years?

Yet you get all the so-called pundits creaming their jeans over Spain - as if it's a sin to criticise them for actually producing mediocre games.

Give me Sweden v England any time - with all the dreadful ball control and U-11s defending.

Lovely stuff

Exactly Blood, guts and commitment or in this case error prone games can be as entertaining as tappy tappy fanny football.

But is this view an entirely English one?

Is it us that are out of kilter?

But I knows what I likes and that's that

When Keith Andrews has consistently been your best player over the 3 games, you know its been a bad tournament!

I find Spain incredibly dull when they aren't at their best. 75 passes across the back 4 and the wingers isn't pretty to watch, you want direct, end-to-end stuff and goal mouth action.

Well, Croatia had the chance to knock them out last night and blew it.

So I suppose it's down to us now!!

Indeed, I don't care how good the passing is, when 75% is across the back 4, sideways or backwards it's shit.

The Italy game was only good because the team renowned for being negative were looking positively open in contrast to Spain's 6 man midfield.

Agree to an extent re: the entertainment value of Spain yesterday. However the pass from Fabregas and touch from Iniesta for their goal was pretty tidy.

But half a dozen moments of top quality in 90 minutes can never compare to 90 minutes of cut and thrust with all the errors thrown in.

Fans dont want perfection they want excitement

Spains boring football has won them the Euro's and the World cup, would we moan if we played boring football and it won us a cup or the league?

Of course not. But as we were/are neutral observers when it comes to Spain, I'd rather drink my own bathwater

To counter that more teams have won being fairly negative.Teams are starting to suss out spain/barca imo

Just as devil's advocate - why do Spain have to entertain you? This system works for them - one World Cup, one Euros - so why worry if you find them boring?

Surely the complaint is with the people who copy Spain/Barca? Who say that this is the only way or the good way to play? It is a defensive system designed to win games and it works - they aren't trying to be pleasing. Isn't one of the great things about football the variety of ways to play, of styles, of players?

Spain are no great shakes....bit of a myth these last few years to be honest.

When they have as many Stars as Brazil or Germany then maybe people like myself will see them as one of the greats....untill then i remain optimistic that we have as good as chance as them .

For me personally, Spain don't have to entertain, but if the commentators insist on wanking off about how amazing they are, then I feel I have to voice my opposition when, in my opinion, they're boring.

I also don't recall them being boring during their Euro and WC wins, they've just become that way.

Wow.

Strangely i agree with leefer.For a team that many insist are sö good they nearly royally fucked up from a pretty shit group

It was the bit about the lack of stars I struggled to comprehend. They've got the best goalkeeper in the world, and two of the best midfielders to have ever played the game.

I don't think they'll win it - I think they only have a plan A which has been largely sussed out by the better teams, and a lot of their players will be burnt out. But to completely dismiss what a good side they were just smacks of ill informed nonsense

Spain's "system" has grown to look more boring as opposing teams just sit in and try and nullify them. Yes, playing the ball amongst the back 4 isn't entertaining, but when they get the ball in the final third their passing and movement is great to watch.

Italy proved that you don't just have to sit in and defend for your lives though. Press high, get at them and make them feel uncomfortable. Although if/when we face them, no doubt it'll be a 10 men behind the ball job.

As much as I like Spain's play, I think for overall footballing ability you can't get much better than the Germans at the moment.

Stars above the badge, as in World Cup wins.

Oh. Still fail to see how that has any impact on how you judge a countries ability. By that reckoning Uruguay are twice as good as france, england and spain, infinitely better than the netherlands and portugla, and as good as Argentina.

Totally agree. How does Spain's team in the 30's/40's/50's etc affect the quality of this particular side?

If they win the Euros they will have won 3 straight major international tournaments, something that's never been done before. Pretty impressive in my book.

If they do then fair play.For me personally though what i am saying at this moment they are not playing as great as people are making out

And that is just the Stunners :D

Spain can be beaten and are not perfect. You just have to get the ball from them first which aint easy. That's why their style of play is so good as they retain the ball so well.

You don't hold the World cup and Euro's if you aint a great side. It's no fluke

Spain are rubbing it right in their critics faces tonight. Pass and move at its best

Probably the most exciting they've been all tournament. Jordi Alba's goal was fucking excellent.

Wow what a way to win it, 4-0. Best international team ever?

So selfless in their play. The word 'Team' fits them perfectly

Absolutely, I was impressed with Spain tonight, was good to see them actually attack tonight.

Well played Spain, well played.

Shame for the neutral it was so one sided though!

Chuffed for Torres

The best team won tonight easily which was a shame for the neutrals.  England have a lot of catching up to do.

That is one hell of an understatement!

I managed to watch every single game.  :)

Spain 4 - Italy 0.Nothing to do with football. It's the number of jobs available in each country.

Certainly the best I have seen.

The bollocks being spouted by the BBC pundits last night, was embarrassing in the extreme. Certainly Spain saved theri best til last, which is a good trait, to get you through a taxing campaign, but v Portugal in the semi, they were pretty dire, and rode their luck, something that most tournament winning sides have to do, at some stage no matter how good.

Spain are a fine side, which is hardly surprising, being based as they are on Guardiola's Barca, who have re-written the book i the last 4 years....but they haven't got Messi, which means they are a bit less expansive, but similarly hard to beat.

They certainly the best around at the moment...

?
Presumably not live, as the final group games in each group are concurrent?

Spain were superb last night.  It was beautiful to watch how comfortable they are on the ball and passing it in tight situations.  Oh how I wish...

Overall i thought it was a very good tournament with a lot of enjoyable matches! Shame to see so many empty seats at the majority of games though

Spain certainly deserved to win last night and put on an impressive show. Can't help wondering how different people's assessments of Spain would have been had Croatia taken one of their chances in the QF though...

I really enjoyed the tournament overall.  Most of the matches were entertaining, it wasn't bloated like the world cup (and what a shame that they are increasing it to 24 teams, it could ruin the European Championships ), there were very few sendings off (3 I think) and a general atmosphere of fair play and open football.  For me it was the best tournament since Euro 2000.

all i can remember from 2000 is phil neville's foul

I thought it was a good tournament, but not as good as 2008. That tournament was possibly the best ever in my onion. Spains rise to prominence, Holland and Russia's boom and bust approach, Turkeys mental run.

And no England to spoil any of it

A really good tournament, but as Bogus Dave says not as good as Euro 2008.