Let's Get Political!

[pauld]

Not sure freedom of the press applies when the OSA has been breached, isn't that getting towards treason territory in legal terms?

And there you're on *very* sticky ground. Cf the OSA cases in the 80s (Clive Ponting, Sara Wosserface) and more recently, the Met using anti-terror legislation to attempt to criminalise journalism they found inconvenient/embarassing

[Ardiles]

I should have added...

What will be the terms of a trade deal with the EU?  They will be whatever the EU decides they will be.  It will almost certainly involve honouring the Good Friday Agreement in the form of the backstop written in to the existing WA, maintaining EU standards and agreeing to pay in to the EU budget.

[pauld]

I should have added...

What will be the terms of a trade deal with the EU?  They will be whatever the EU decides they will be.  It will almost certainly involve honouring the Good Friday Agreement in the form of the backstop written in to the existing WA, maintaining EU standards and agreeing to pay in to the EU budget.

But ... but ... French cheese, BMW cars, erm Italian handbags, erm Dunkirk spirit, 1944 and things

[horlock07]

And there you're on *very* sticky ground. Cf the OSA cases in the 80s (Clive Ponting, Sara Wosserface) and more recently, the Met using anti-terror legislation to attempt to criminalise journalism they found inconvenient/embarassing

Who knows and I say likely irrelevant as it will just be brushed away, I suppose the other issue is that if old bill decide to investigate will she have to reveal her source?

I should have added...

What will be the terms of a trade deal with the EU?  They will be whatever the EU decides they will be.  It will almost certainly involve honouring the Good Friday Agreement in the form of the backstop written in to the existing WA, maintaining EU standards and agreeing to pay in to the EU budget.

If we need the pressure of the EU to make our government honour the Good Friday Agreement we are more morally bankrupt as a country than I ever imagined.

You look at politics this morning, the absolute state of it. You look at Labour: a moral chasm. You look at Tories: architects of national humiliation.

[StfcRusty]

Tommy Robinson jailed for 9 months for contempt of Court.

Gammons not happy.

(Probably should post this in things that make you happy / mildly amuse you)

[Flashheart]

Some of his supporters are cause for the things that annoy you thread.

There's differences of opinion and all that, but some people are just plain wrong in their 'facts'

"He didn't break the law" - Yes he did
"He exposed the pedos"  - No he did not
"The press broke the law as well" - No they did not

And so on.

[pauld]

Some of his supporters are cause for the things that annoy you thread.

There's differences of opinion and all that, but some people are just plain wrong in their 'facts'

"He didn't break the law" - Yes he did
"He exposed the pedos"  - No he did not
"The press broke the law as well" - No they did not

Not only did he NOT expose the paedos, but that he risked jeapordising their trial and thereby actually setting them free. That is why we have a Contempt of Court Act. Also worth asking where his "brave journalism" was when this lot were in court:

Jack Renshaw (above) – EDL, BNP, National Action: four counts of inciting a child to engage in sexual activity.
Wayne Kirby – Tommy Robinson supporter: served six years after being convicted for rape in 2007.
Bradley Daniel Alford, EDL Supporter: 6 yrs, indecent photos, inciting a child to engage in sexual intercourse.
Kristopher Allan, SDL supporter: convicted for messages, images, and sexual contact involving a 13 year old.
Luke Atkinson, UKIP & Yorkshire EDL Supporter: jailed 4 yrs, 8 mths, grooming young teenagers.
Alan Boulter, EDL Supporter and all round racist: 20 mths, attempted grooming.
John Broomfield, EDL and British Freedom supporter: ‘making indecent images of children’ and inept mosque attack.
Dean Chambers, EDL & BNP supporter: 5 yrs, sexual assault.


Michael Coates AKA Micky Blue Eyes (above), NW Infidels: charged with 2 attempted rapes and other sex offences.
Bruce Cordwell, EDL: 3 yrs, 7 mths, grooming.
Michael Cowen, neo-Nazi: 3 yrs, child pornography.
Alan Thomas Ellis, Deeside EDL: convicted of sending texts of a sexual nature to a 14 year old girl.
Robert Ewing, EDL, BNP, NF supporter: grooming & murder of 15 yr old.


Ryan Fleming, National Action (above): 3 yrs, sexual activity with a child, his 2nd sexual offence.
Darren Francis, BNP, sexual relationship with 13 year old.


Christopher Gamlin, Britain First supporter (above): 21 mths, grooming & trying to incite a child into sexual activity.


Pete Gillett, EDL speaker (above): 18 years, multiple offences of rape and indecent assault on children.
Nigel Hesmondalgh, BNP: jailed for possessing a series of degrading photos and videos of children.
Dale Hewitt, EDL supporter: 10 years for multiple sex offences against teenage girls.
Ian Hindle, BNP, jailed for sexual activity with 14-year-old girls.
Mark Hogg, EDL: 9 months for sexual assault on a 14 year old.
Elliot Jones, EDL supporter and part of the self-styled ‘pedophile squad’ jailed for, err, pedophilia.
Mervyn Jones, North Wales Alliance/Combined Ex-Forces: guilty of rape, attempted rape, indecent assault.
Shaun Jones, Liverpool Scouse Nationalists: jailed for grooming and raping a 12 year old girl.
Michael Kinnear, BNP and EDL supporter: jailed for sexually abusing a 7 year old.
Gavin Leist, BNP, child porn.


Leigh MacMillan with racist chum David Coppin
Leigh MacMillan, EDL: convicted of three counts of indecent assault, two of indecency with a child and one of attempted rape. Jailed for a total of 17 years.
Michael McQueenie, EDL Blackburn: pleaded guilty of two counts of rape of a 14-year-old girl and sexual assault.
Brett Moses EDL Hull: 12-month prison sentence for sexual grooming.
Paul O’Brien, Blood & Honour fascist: 9 yrs, rape, sexual assault.
Stephen Payne SDL supporter: convicted of grooming a 13 year old.
Richard Price, former EDL leader: four counts of making indecent images of children.
Michael Roles, BF supporter: 18 yrs child rape.
Roderick Rowley, BNP: child porn and sexually abusing 10-year-old girl.
Mark Ryley, Britain First, Infidels of Britain & Nick Griffin supporter: 30 years for multiple sexual offences against young girls.


Mark ‘Archie’ Sleman (above), EDL:  kidnap & attempted rape of 10 yr old.
James Swindlehurst, White Man March supporter, photographed with the North West Infidels: jailed for 20 years for 13 counts of child rape.
Trevor Vinson, EDL, Britain First & Jayda Fransen supporter: 21 years for repeated sexual abuse and making obscene images of 3 year old girl.
Andrew Wells, BNP: jailed for sexual activity with 14-year-old girls.
Matthew Woodward, Deeside EDL: charged with child pornography and soliciting a 13 year old for photographs.
All sexual abuse is wrong and has nothing to do with ethnicity, race, or religion. Please pass this information around.

https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2019/04/03/2019-far-right-sex-offenders-list/

[Ardiles]

If we need the pressure of the EU to make our government honour the Good Friday Agreement we are more morally bankrupt as a country than I ever imagined.

Yes, x 1,000.  That it falls, seemingly, now to the EU to uphold the GFA makes me cringe with shame.  Some of our politicians should learn a little history (and particularly Irish history), and then take a moment to consider how others see us.

[Pax Romana]

I'd certainly hope not. There's a long standing tradition that journalists are not forced to reveal their sources, to protect the integrity of the freedom of the press. While Oakeshott's source in this instance doesn't deserve any protection, it's not worth sacrificing the overarching principle for

I disagree.  This had no element whatsoever of whistleblowing in the public interest.   It was a shitty little piece exposing a private opinion with no motivation other than to sell a few newspapers and to cause mischief.

There would be no overarching principle sacrificed in any way if the source and Oakeshott both ended up in prison.

[pauld]

I disagree.  This had no element whatsoever of whistleblowing in the public interest.   It was a shitty little piece exposing a private opinion with no motivation other than to sell a few newspapers and to cause mischief.

Oh I completely agree. But it's difficult to differentiate (in law) and I'd have thought that Oakeshott at least could argue that it was in the public interest. She's wrong, but there's probably an argument there. No such defence is open to the leaker however.

[pauld]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48973861

This was precisely the kind of thing I was concerned about. To their credit, both Hunt and Johnson have piled in in defence of freedom of the press. A free press keeping govt accountable is one of the key pillars of democracy, along with an independent judiciary. It's why Trump and the far right hate both.

[Wobbly Bob]

I read somewhere that only around 10% of the world's population has access to a "free press".

The free press index for 2019 has GB ranked at 33 which is piss poor.
I can't post the link but will try and dig it out or if someone can lend a hand in the meantime.

Taking Russia as an example the degree of untruth reported through the media coupled with state control of the internet is appalling.
The freedom of the web is something that is gradually being eroded by legislation across the globe, our own included.

Edit
Here are the links. No reason to doubt the intentions or aims of the source.

https://rsf.org/en/united-kingdom

The US in at no 48

https://rsf.org/en/united-states

And languishing at 149 of 180.

https://rsf.org/en/russia

[ron dodgers]

I'm not sure whether these guys are in the clear yet
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/28/northern-ireland-judge-likens-journalist-arrests-police-state-conduct-loughinisland

[horlock07]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48973861

This was precisely the kind of thing I was concerned about. To their credit, both Hunt and Johnson have piled in in defence of freedom of the press. A free press keeping govt accountable is one of the key pillars of democracy, along with an independent judiciary. It's why Trump and the far right hate both.

Oh come off it Johnson and Hunt could not give a shit about freedom of the press unless the leaks suit their objectives, do you imagine for one nano second they would be so strident about matters if the leak was damaging to Corbyn.

[pauld]

Ha ha, this is superb - Farage claiming the new EU president lacks legitimacy because she only won by 52% of the vote. Quite right, Nigel, what kind of idiot would claim to have a mandate on such a narrow margin?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ursula-von-der-leyen-brexit-party-vote-eu-commission-juncker-a9008501.html