Pages: 1 ... 218 219 220 [221] 222 223   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 270013 times)
horlock07


+31274/-27180
Offline Offline

Posts: 7713


Lives up north




Ignore
« Reply #3300 on: Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 13:03:37 »

EEA anyone? (Especially interested in views from Brexiteers, given the discussion on here recently that people didn't vote to leave the single market, but the political union)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/08/labour-peers-force-may-to-give-mps-vote-over-single-market-plans

Probably won't make a jot of difference whilst Corbyn is acting as May's (very ignorant and ill informed) facilitator....

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/05/09/lords-vote-no-place-left-for-corbyn-to-hide
Logged
Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia


+82/-268
Offline Offline

Posts: 30551





Ignore
« Reply #3301 on: Thursday, May 10, 2018, 10:12:19 »

 Trump's plan to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal and punish European countries who continue to trade with Iran, seems to throw a large spannner into the Brexit works.

 As I understand it, the EU has a trade deal with Iran that has allowed trade to flourish, as it is a growing market with a young population. Apparently our trade lags behind, but the fact other countries are successful suggests it's nothing to do with the EU model.  Therefore the EU wish to distance themselves from Trump.

Presumably the Brexiteers dream is that we can undercut the EU, by restoring more Victorian working conditions, tax regimes and environmental controls.
Logged
pauld


+99/-111
Offline Offline

Posts: 18241





Ignore
« Reply #3302 on: Thursday, May 10, 2018, 11:15:34 »

Presumably the Brexiteers dream is that we can undercut the EU, by restoring more Victorian working conditions, tax regimes and environmental controls.
Suspect Victorian working conditions might be a bit modern for Walter Rees-Mogg
Logged
horlock07


+31274/-27180
Offline Offline

Posts: 7713


Lives up north




Ignore
« Reply #3303 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 12:44:26 »

Some thoughts on where we are at the moment, shamelessly stolen from politics.co.uk

'Nothing is going on. You can leave the room of British politics without pausing it, go make a cup of tea, and it'll still be in the same place when you get back.
 
Theresa May has reached an impasse in the Cabinet. Idea one is staying in the customs union. She can't do that because the Brexiters will not accept it. Idea two is a customs partnership, which is either an invented system already rejected by the EU or a sneaky rebranding on customs union membership - no-one is quite sure, including probably herself. She can't do this because the Brexiters will not accept it either. Idea three is a so-called 'maximum facilitation' model, which is basically a fancy name for using smartphone apps to not check lorries at the border. She can't do that because Cabinet moderates and the EU won't accept it. She's stuck.
 
Nearly every day there is a newspaper report saying that May's team or some other minister have a new plan to move things along, and that new plan always involves delaying things. The latest wheeze is to have May divide the Cabinet into two groups - you'll remember this from school - and have them duke out the differences between the partnership and 'max-fac' systems. But of course this involves pointing out the problems with the models, which are legion, and that will invariably lead to her saying both need more work, which was itself what the government was saying last summer when it released its original position paper on the subject. And that then means she'll have to delay again. It's political purgatory.
 
Both sides of this fantasy-land debate have their own delaying tactics. Former May aide Nick Timothy, who supports the 'max-fac' model, is suggesting that they could perhaps extend the transition period to get it all set up. In truth, they'd need to extend it by about eight further years and join the single market if it was to have any chance of success, but that is a level of objective reality he is not yet ready for. Nevertheless, the fact hard Brexiters are starting to acknowledge what all experts are saying - that a two-year transition is clearly not enough time - is worth noting. Wherever you look, delay is the only inspiration.
 
Over in parliament, nothing is also happening. Commons leader Andrea Leadsom has given no timings for the return of the EU withdrawal bill from the Lords, or indeed any news on any of the other Brexit bills. The 14 Lords amendments aren't being brought to the Commons because the government is afraid it will lose. Plus it is quite hard to whip MPs into a position when the Cabinet cannot agree on one.
 
So Cabinet cannot reach a decision because it does not know what it is doing and parliament is not allowed to scrutinise legislation because the government cannot trust that it will do the right thing even though it doesn't know what that is. And all the while Brussels sits there waiting, as the Article 50 clock ticks remorselessly down.
 
We have all become slowly accustomed to this level of ideological and practical ineptitude. But in the future, historians will marvel at how the government was allowed to behave this way with comparatively little outrage, given the scale of the inadequacy.'
Logged
RobertT


+38/-22
Offline Offline

Posts: 5948




Ignore
« Reply #3304 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 12:54:24 »

It's pretty simple.  You just get the fuck out, send the army to the NI border and wait for the Islamist Extremists to be pushed out by the New Real IRA.  The country voted for Out, give them their medicine.  Just like this one here has to put up with the idiot they voted for until 2021 to get about 10,000 steel and coal jobs secured.
Logged
RedRag


+12/-8
Offline Offline

Posts: 1584





Ignore
« Reply #3305 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 19:18:12 »

Some thoughts on where we are at the moment, shamelessly stolen from politics.co.uk

'Nothing is going on. You can leave the room of British politics without pausing it, go make a cup of tea, and it'll still be in the same place when you get back.
 
Theresa May has reached an impasse in the Cabinet. Idea one is staying in the customs union. She can't do that because the Brexiters will not accept it. Idea two is a customs partnership, which is either an invented system already rejected by the EU or a sneaky rebranding on customs union membership - no-one is quite sure, including probably herself. She can't do this because the Brexiters will not accept it either. Idea three is a so-called 'maximum facilitation' model, which is basically a fancy name for using smartphone apps to not check lorries at the border. She can't do that because Cabinet moderates and the EU won't accept it. She's stuck.
 
Nearly every day there is a newspaper report saying that May's team or some other minister have a new plan to move things along, and that new plan always involves delaying things. The latest wheeze is to have May divide the Cabinet into two groups - you'll remember this from school - and have them duke out the differences between the partnership and 'max-fac' systems. But of course this involves pointing out the problems with the models, which are legion, and that will invariably lead to her saying both need more work, which was itself what the government was saying last summer when it released its original position paper on the subject. And that then means she'll have to delay again. It's political purgatory.
 
Both sides of this fantasy-land debate have their own delaying tactics. Former May aide Nick Timothy, who supports the 'max-fac' model, is suggesting that they could perhaps extend the transition period to get it all set up. In truth, they'd need to extend it by about eight further years and join the single market if it was to have any chance of success, but that is a level of objective reality he is not yet ready for. Nevertheless, the fact hard Brexiters are starting to acknowledge what all experts are saying - that a two-year transition is clearly not enough time - is worth noting. Wherever you look, delay is the only inspiration.
 
Over in parliament, nothing is also happening. Commons leader Andrea Leadsom has given no timings for the return of the EU withdrawal bill from the Lords, or indeed any news on any of the other Brexit bills. The 14 Lords amendments aren't being brought to the Commons because the government is afraid it will lose. Plus it is quite hard to whip MPs into a position when the Cabinet cannot agree on one.
 
So Cabinet cannot reach a decision because it does not know what it is doing and parliament is not allowed to scrutinise legislation because the government cannot trust that it will do the right thing even though it doesn't know what that is. And all the while Brussels sits there waiting, as the Article 50 clock ticks remorselessly down.
 
We have all become slowly accustomed to this level of ideological and practical ineptitude. But in the future, historians will marvel at how the government was allowed to behave this way with comparatively little outrage, given the scale of the inadequacy.'

To summarise:

Theresa:       We want unicorns!

EU:              Sorry, no unicorns No

Boris:           unicorns are *crazy*, we want dragons!

EU:              sorry, no dragons No

Theresa:       Right, we’ll split into two teams. One will look at unicorns, the other at dragons!

EU:               sigh....

Public:           Zzz
Logged
Ardiles


+18/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 9988





Ignore
« Reply #3306 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 20:28:57 »

People need to be reasonable.  If the vote in favour of Leave was 70%+, I would have far more sympathy with the view that we had to leave everything.  But it wasn't.  A 51.9% vote in favour of anything is going to involve a degree of compromise somewhere along the line.

Apologies for quoting myself, but when I read (link below) that Dan Hannan, no less, had now come round to my way of thinking, I had to have a lie down.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Hannan Calls for Moderate Withdrawal

'Tory MEP and Brexiteer Dan Hannan has said leaving the EU is not going to plan so far, and called for a “moderate form of withdrawal”, in a blog post on the Conservative Home website.  He said he wants to see a Brexit that recognises the narrow win of the leave campaign.  And “leaves intact a number of existing arrangements”, suggesting a hard Brexit has started to look unappealing.'

First time I've heard a Brexit supporter admitting, finally, that a 52%/48% split in the referendum vote was going to mean compromise was inevitable.  I'd add 'fair' & 'reasonable' to that list as well.
Logged
pauld


+99/-111
Offline Offline

Posts: 18241





Ignore
« Reply #3307 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 20:37:26 »

Apologies for quoting myself, but when I read (link below) that Dan Hannan, no less, had now come round to my way of thinking, I had to have a lie down.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Hannan Calls for Moderate Withdrawal

'Tory MEP and Brexiteer Dan Hannan has said leaving the EU is not going to plan so far, and called for a “moderate form of withdrawal”, in a blog post on the Conservative Home website.  He said he wants to see a Brexit that recognises the narrow win of the leave campaign.  And “leaves intact a number of existing arrangements”, suggesting a hard Brexit has started to look unappealing.'

First time I've heard a Brexit supporter admitting, finally, that a 52%/48% split in the referendum vote was going to mean compromise was inevitable.  I'd add 'fair' & 'reasonable' to that list as well.
Not only that but the admission that "a hard Brexit has started to look unappealing", coming from one of the original and most hard core of Eurosceptics is quite astonishing. He's campaigned for a hard Brexit for years, now he's had a look into the abyss and he's gone off the idea when he and his mates may well have ended up landing us all with it. Incredible.
Logged
jayohaitchenn
Wielder of the BANHAMMER


+54/-86
Offline Offline

Posts: 10476




« Reply #3308 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 20:37:31 »

I wouldn't apologise for that. The quoted post is entirely sensible.
Logged
Sir red ken


+6/-39
Offline Offline

Posts: 166




Ignore
« Reply #3309 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 21:11:17 »

According to the media today (the independent) if we leave the EU then the north of England will suffer massive job losses. That will put and end to all the ship building, coal mining, the twinnigs factory in North shields will transfer to Poland and the fishing Industry will all but disapear.  You will also have to buy your mustard from Germany, that's what Brexit independence brings! 
Logged
Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia


+82/-268
Offline Offline

Posts: 30551





Ignore
« Reply #3310 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 21:36:41 »

According to the media today (the independent) if we leave the EU then the north of England will suffer massive job losses. That will put and end to all the ship building, coal mining, the twinnigs factory in North shields will transfer to Poland and the fishing Industry will all but disapear.  You will also have to buy your mustard from Germany, that's what Brexit independence brings! 

Are you sure the paper you read was up to date?  Twinnings tea factory was moved to Poland 6 years ago. All the other jobs largely went before that.
Logged
Sir red ken


+6/-39
Offline Offline

Posts: 166




Ignore
« Reply #3311 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 22:05:45 »

Are you sure the paper you read was up to date?  Twinnings tea factory was moved to Poland 6 years ago. All the other jobs largely went before that.
What are you saying, that we've lost all those jobs before Brexit! that can't be true. Everyday there's a story of massive brexit Job losses, never any about million lost because of EU membership.
Logged
pauld


+99/-111
Offline Offline

Posts: 18241





Ignore
« Reply #3312 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 22:14:18 »

What are you saying, that we've lost all those jobs before Brexit! that can't be true. Everyday there's a story of massive brexit Job losses, never any about million lost because of EU membership.
Ha ha, trap sprung, you walked into that one Reg - everyone knows those jobs were lost to Thatcherism Wink
Logged
pauld


+99/-111
Offline Offline

Posts: 18241





Ignore
« Reply #3313 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 22:18:07 »

While we're on Brexit, good to see that Banks and Farage's Cambridge Analytica mob have been officially unrecognised as illegally cheating during the referendum campaign and the coppers have now been called in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44080096
Logged
Sir red ken


+6/-39
Offline Offline

Posts: 166




Ignore
« Reply #3314 on: Friday, May 11, 2018, 22:31:01 »

While we're on Brexit, good to see that Banks and Farage's Cambridge Analytica mob have been officially unrecognised as illegally cheating during the referendum campaign and the coppers have now been called in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44080096
Yeah, you lost your point with a link to the brussels broadcasting corporation. Give me an unbiased article please.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 218 219 220 [221] 222 223   Go Up
Print
Jump to: