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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 536554 times)
RobertT


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« Reply #3330 on: Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 14:09:22 »

It all comes over to me, think this one is a Brexit Red Herring.
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Ardiles


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« Reply #3331 on: Friday, May 25, 2018, 08:20:47 »

Trump's letter to North Korea is a thing of beauty.  And the final sentence of the first paragraph lays it all bare:

'You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used.'

A psychologist's dream.  Surely it would have been more honest, direct & straight forward simply to say 'It's true.  I have the smallest penis you could ever imagine.'
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #3332 on: Friday, May 25, 2018, 08:37:39 »

I think Trump is an easy target but his unconventional methods may well work. North Korea looks promising although a long way to go. Its a new era of politics and I think its fair to say Obama just kicked the can up the road on a number of external issues. Trump is certainly bringing them to a head, whether good or bad remains to be seen but it might just work.
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Ardiles


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« Reply #3333 on: Friday, May 25, 2018, 09:26:22 »

Maybe true.  By nature, Trump's a disrupter.  He blows things up and then sees where the pieces land.  I can't help but feel that if he does get a result, it will be more by luck than judgement - and that he will have risked a great deal in getting there.

No quibble with the Obama comment, by the way.
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pauld


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« Reply #3334 on: Friday, May 25, 2018, 09:48:37 »

Maybe true.  By nature, Trump's a disrupter.  He blows things up and then sees where the pieces land.
Which clearly has worked quite well for him in building a property empire. The stakes are considerably higher when dealing with unstable nuclear armed dictators though - the "blowing things up and seeing where the pieces land" is likely to become considerably less metaphorical. I'd say he's about evens to either achieve a massive breakthrough by trying a wholly different approach to the one they've been using for years without success or cause the deaths of millions.
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pauld


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« Reply #3335 on: Friday, May 25, 2018, 09:50:41 »

And again

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44239479

Surprisingly, it turns out that if you appoint a complete oaf as Foreign Secretary you become an international laughing stock. Who'da thunk it?
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3336 on: Friday, May 25, 2018, 10:52:03 »

  I wonder if Brexiteers voted to withdraw our access to the Galileo satellite system  Hmmm

 Apparently we signed up in 2011, to an agreement that 3rd countries couldn't have access to manufacture or information, and are now to become a 3rd country.

 Hammond has said we'll just have to build our own  Smiley

 Of course, we had our own back in the early 70's, but a series of economic shocks tanked the economy, precipitating the move to join the EEC and other European co-operative bodies.   Prospero....



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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #3337 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 12:14:03 »

Prediction time. General Election before the year's out. Labour run on an anti Brexit agenda - (possibly without Corbs as leader), win and Brexit over. Tories can't really run on anything other than Brexit agenda. Will keep May in charge and new leader elected straight after.
Could be any number of reasons to call a general election - not sure which will win out.
EU tactics of sitting back agreeing nothing and letting the UK tear itself apart appear spot on.
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Thingie


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« Reply #3338 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 12:15:31 »

Nadine Dorries is a fucking idiot:

David Davis is ex SAS He’s trained to survive. He’s also trained to take people out. #Brexit
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horlock07


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« Reply #3339 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 12:23:36 »

Prediction time. General Election before the year's out. Labour run on an anti Brexit agenda - (possibly without Corbs as leader), win and Brexit over. Tories can't really run on anything other than Brexit agenda. Will keep May in charge and new leader elected straight after.
Could be any number of reasons to call a general election - not sure which will win out.
EU tactics of sitting back agreeing nothing and letting the UK tear itself apart appear spot on.

I read a fairly compelling piece whilst I was away which suggested that the best way to end Brexit is to get rid of Corbyn rather than May, the Tories are desperate to keep her there spinning the plates as if Rees-Mogg or Johnson etc were not pathetic cowards and actually belived they could deliver Brexit without fucking the economy they would have made a bid months back.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3340 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 12:32:23 »

Prediction time. General Election before the year's out. Labour run on an anti Brexit agenda - (possibly without Corbs as leader), win and Brexit over. Tories can't really run on anything other than Brexit agenda. Will keep May in charge and new leader elected straight after.
Could be any number of reasons to call a general election - not sure which will win out.
EU tactics of sitting back agreeing nothing and letting the UK tear itself apart appear spot on.

Anything is possible, but my instinct is the Tories will drift on for fear of worse. The May locals were OK for them, and their poll ratings are still steady.

The EU have just done exactly what you'd expect, the onus has always been on the UK to decide what it wants, and there's the problem, it was never thought through by the leave side.

The above piece about satellites, being a classic example, when in we agree a deal not to give access to 3rd countries, then as a prospective 3rd country expect it not to apply. This is the having our cake and eating it Brexit, and it makes no sense.
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #3341 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 12:39:15 »

The above piece about satellites, being a classic example, when in we agree a deal not to give access to 3rd countries, then as a prospective 3rd country expect it not to apply. This is the having our cake and eating it Brexit, and it makes no sense.
You could argue though that having contributed shedloads to get it up and running it is partly our asset and that the EU should either buy out our stake or we continue funding and have access.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3342 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 13:24:03 »

You could argue though that having contributed shedloads to get it up and running it is partly our asset and that the EU should either buy out our stake or we continue funding and have access.

Well yes, this is what Leave argued that the EU need us more than we need them, so they'd just roll over and do things as you suggest, but all these things are tied up in laws and treaties which we've spent 40 odd years signing up to. (It may take 40 odd years to unpick. I that sense the Moggites who want to go over the cliff and start again, have an element of logic to back them up, it's just that it is reckless.

So to use the satellite example, we could build our own, or go into partnership with say India, but why would you want to when already involved in a world leading organisation?
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RedRag


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« Reply #3343 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 13:42:16 »

It is true that the worst of the predictions by Remainers like Osborne are now looking exaggerated.  Leave however squeaked home with 51.9%.  Two years down the line, it is instructive to ask whether Leave's pre - referendum promises retain much or any credibility?  

(1) More money for the NHS

Vote Leave’s battle bus said: “We send the EU £350 million a week. Let’s fund our NHS instead”

“Instead of sending £350 million per week to Brussels, we will spend it on our priorities like the NHS and education.” – Vote Leave briefing

“After we Vote Leave on 23 June, the Government should use some of the billions saved from leaving the EU to give at least a £100 million per week cash transfusion to the NHS.” – Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, and Gisela Stuart

(2) More money for farmers

“The UK government will continue to give farmers and the environment as much support – or perhaps even more – as they get now.” – George Eustice, Minister for Farming, Food and Marine Environment

(3) More money for scientists


“If we Vote Leave, we will be able to increase funding to science and still save billions” –Vote Leave

(4) More money in your pocket

“Wages will be higher for working people outside the EU… because pay will no longer be undercut by uncontrolled migration.” – Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, and Gisela Stuart

(5) And scrapping VAT on fuel bills and tampons


“In 1993, VAT on household energy bills was imposed… When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax.” – Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, and Gisela Stuart

‘After we Vote Leave… We will need a carefully managed negotiation process and some major legislative changes before 2020, including taking real steps… to abolish VAT on fuel and tampons” – Chris Grayling

(6) No EU beneficiaries left worse-off

“There is more than enough money to ensure that those who now get funding from the EU – including universities, scientists, family farmers, regional funds, cultural organisations and others – will continue to do so… We will continue to fund EU programmes in the UK until 2020” – Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, and Priti Patel (amongst other signatories)

(7) And no short-term economic disruption


“After we Vote Leave, there won’t be a sudden change that disrupts the economy.” – Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Michael Gove

(Cool We’ll get brand new trade deals all over the world


“We would immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals… which could enter into force immediately after the UK leaves the EU” – Chris Grayling

(9) There’ll be no damage to trade with the EU

“There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it… Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave… The idea that our trade will suffer because we stop imposing terrible rules such as the Clinical Trial Directive is silly.” Vote Leave

(10) Or our cooperation with the EU

“We will negotiate a UK-EU Treaty that enables us 1) to continue cooperating in many areas just as now (e.g. maritime surveillance), 2) to deepen cooperation in some areas (e.g. scientific collaborations and counter-terrorism)” – Vote Leave

(11) Guaranteed in a treaty which we’ll sort out before 2020


“It will be possible to negotiate a new settlement with the EU, including a UK-EU free trade deal, by the next general election in May 2020” – Vote Leave

(12) Which won’t have any obligation to follow EU laws


“The supremacy of EU law and the jurisdiction of the European Court over the UK will come to an end” Vote Leave

(13) We’ll cut immigration

“I wouldn’t set a time limit for it but the ambition would be to bring it down to tens of thousands.” – Michael Gove

(14) With a new system in place by 2020

“By the next general election, we will create a genuine Australian-style points based immigration system.” – Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel and Gisela Stuart

(15) That doesn’t favour EU citizens

“Those seeking entry for work or study should be admitted on the basis of their skills without discrimination on the ground of nationality.” – Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel and Gisela Stuart

“[We will introduce a bill to] end the automatic right of all EU citizens to enter the UK by the next election” – Vote Leave

(16) But which gives Irish citizens total free access

“The right of Irish citizens to enter, reside and work in the UK is already enshrined in our law. This will be entirely unaffected by a vote to leave on 23 June.” – Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel and Gisela Stuart

(17) And stronger border controls

“There is one absolutely clear-cut dividend from leaving the EU. That is our ability to regain control of our borders, including far stronger powers over who we can deport, and proper preventative checks at the border.” – Dominic Raab

(18) But no controls on the Northern Irish land border with the EU

“There will be no change to the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.” – Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel and Gisela Stuart

(19) And the union with Scotland will be stronger than ever


“If we vote to leave then I think the union will be stronger… I think when we vote to leave it will be clear that having voted to leave one union the last thing people in Scotland wanted to do is to break up another.” – Michael Gove

(20) The UK holds all the cards

"The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want" -  Michael Gove
« Last Edit: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 13:47:09 by RedRag » Logged
horlock07


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« Reply #3344 on: Thursday, June 7, 2018, 15:20:33 »

Well yes, this is what Leave argued that the EU need us more than we need them, so they'd just roll over and do things as you suggest, but all these things are tied up in laws and treaties which we've spent 40 odd years signing up to.

And in a large number of cases actually pressed the EU to adopt....  What the fuck?

It may take 40 odd years to unpick.

We are going to be paying them until 2064 so perhaps the two can run in tandem...  Contract

So to use the satellite example, we could build our own, or go into partnership with say India, but why would you want to when already involved in a world leading organisation?

Amusingly if we decide to go it alone we would have to open all the contracts up to EU companies to bid for them due to WTO rules.....  Cheesy
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