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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1332830 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #11385 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 10:43:12 »

It's not an either or, necessarily. You can conclude that the Tories are riding a populist nationalist wave and also notice that Labour are a watse of space. I was talking more generally than just Hartlepool but I struggle to see how anyone can look at even the early results coming out and draw any conclusion other than that Labour are fucked, and their ongoing internal navel-gazing isn't helping.

Oh they are, one only has to look at social media to see that there seem to be as many Labour 'supporters' wanting Starmer to fail as wanting him to succeed.

Some Interesting comments from David Allen Green this morning;

The political challenge is not to lie 'higher, further, faster' than the governing party

The governing party is better at this than any opponent

The political challenge is to make it matter to voters that they are being lied to

And that task of leadership is hard for anyone

How do you make voters care about being lied to?

By exposing lies? - No, that by itself has no effect

By new lies? - No, the governing party will be better at it than you

That is the ultimate challenge for opposition politicians, though they will attack each other instead.

It is interesting that polls repeatedly show that the public want political lying to be a criminal offence and yet they vote for people they know are lying because the lies fit their prejudices.

In slightly more cheery news the LD's seem to have stabilised and the Greens are having a good election.
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Flashheart

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« Reply #11386 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:05:48 »

Labour have proper fucked this haven't they? Still at least they can now spend the next six months with the left blaming the centrists and the centrists blaming the left which is what they're all happiest doing. Ineffectual arseholes

I'm almost as annoyed at them as I am the tories.
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horlock07

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« Reply #11387 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:17:23 »

I'm almost as annoyed at them as I am the tories.

Quite an interesting thread from Dom's predecessor looking at the wider electoral and structural problems facing Labour https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1390549774986788864.html
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adje

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« Reply #11388 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:17:24 »

Let's face it, Johnson could say "bollocks to the Queen" and marry Megan Markle and still not enough people would care
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Shrivvy Road

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« Reply #11389 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:21:05 »

For people like me who have no real strong allegiance as such the last few years watching it has been horrible. I can't be fucked to vote anymore if I am honest. Social media and places like this thread show that people will not be converted from their beliefs and I get that.

What I find now more than ever is the constant shouting down and people are so condescending when you tell them why you are voting one way or why you don't like something. Politics is fucked in this country and I find myself not liking any of them or anyone who just shouts about them at me
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey

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« Reply #11390 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:37:22 »

Iím not a voter - never really have been.

Whatís worse, politics before social media when everyone was kept in the dark or politics now where social media and whatever version of the truth parties put out just gets mingled and nobody can separate truth from fiction.
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pauld
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« Reply #11391 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:44:33 »

Let's face it, Johnson could say "bollocks to the Queen" and marry Megan Markle and still not enough people would care
The "let the bodies pile high in their thousands" comment was the equivalent of Trump's "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and they'd still love me and vote for me". People know Johnson's a liar, they know he's corrupt, they know he's happy to watch them and their families die if it suits him, they just don't give a fuck. Mainly because they think it will be someone else's families that suffer.
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pauld
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« Reply #11392 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:45:51 »

Iím not a voter - never really have been.

Whatís worse, politics before social media when everyone was kept in the dark or politics now where social media and whatever version of the truth parties put out just gets mingled and nobody can separate truth from fiction.
That's dead easy - you don't need to separate truth from fiction because it's all lies now. As a nation, we have witnessed the death of standards in public life, cheered it on and given it a resounding majority.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey

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« Reply #11393 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 11:52:38 »

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you subtly suggesting that voting should be taken away from the great unwashed because they canít work things out for themselves and are too stupid or unconcerned to even try?
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Ardiles

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« Reply #11394 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:00:29 »

Interesting that most (if not all) of the comment from the last few pages relates really only to England - which is now more Tory than it's ever been.  The Scottish results will be fascinating to watch & digest.
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pauld
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« Reply #11395 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:06:27 »

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you subtly suggesting that voting should be taken away from the great unwashed because they canít work things out for themselves and are too stupid or unconcerned to even try?
No not at all. Nothing of the sort. The very opposite in fact. I don't think the people who voted Tory were stupid and that they were taken in by the lies, I said they know Johnson's lying, they just don't give a shit.
« Last Edit: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:32:18 by pauld » Logged
Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #11396 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:08:15 »

How unusual for a thread to be quiet at 7.40 am


My bad. Howís the inquest going?
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horlock07

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« Reply #11397 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:10:52 »

Interesting that most (if not all) of the comment from the last few pages relates really only to England - which is now more Tory than it's ever been.  The Scottish results will be fascinating to watch & digest.

I think the thing is for many England now is the UK, they might bang on about Rule Britannia and all that jazz but they don't really give a shite about Scotland, NI or Wales. As that thing I linked earlier noted one of the big problems Labour have is that historically they depended on Scotland for a large number of seats to get any majority, as Scotland is now basically yellow, Labour (or in fact any other party) will have to do incredibly well in England to gain any majority.

I think the Scottish and Welsh* results could be interesting as its becoming clear that the residents are realising that the government really doesn't care about them, the breakdown of the Union is looking evermore likely and it will be interesting to see how the mainstream parties handle that, especially when you consider the Tories Sunday name is the Conservative and Unionist Party, it may be the case that Johnson or his successors biggest legacy is the loss of the union.

* I am particularly interested in Wales as my BiL is standing for the Seneed or whatever its called.


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Ardiles

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« Reply #11398 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:37:07 »

I miss Reg.  This thread needs him.
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bamboonoclue

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« Reply #11399 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:52:34 »

The "let the bodies pile high in their thousands" comment was the equivalent of Trump's "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and they'd still love me and vote for me". People know Johnson's a liar, they know he's corrupt, they know he's happy to watch them and their families die if it suits him, they just don't give a fuck. Mainly because they think it will be someone else's families that suffer.

It's that constant which has been there within many of the societal human psyche for many years - "Well I'm alright jack". Literally don't give a fuck about anyone else.

Everyone like that thinks they've made it. Thinks nothing bad will ever happen to them like losing their job/house/a huge life event/etc. They fail to see how their job probably isn't as secure as they think and likely most people are only two, maybe three steps from it all going to shit. How many people these days do you see checking on their neighbour or even talking to them (covid restrictions aside)?

Yet they still vote in parties that likely don't match their values or that might benefit them or their community/demographic better (which is odd considering the self centred element). It's ignorance led but also cocksure led too. You'd think a global pandemic would at least make us sit up a bit more and be at least attuned to community, environment and issues that lay further than our own backyard. We're failing as a species (collectively) and we're right on track for a series of further major societal collapses. If the ignorance continues, if the gap of unity grows wider, we'll ultimately destroy ourselves and drag a whole bunch of species with us.

That is unless you've got the disposable to go and inhabit the Moon or possibly Mars at some point. Another planet or satellite we can then mine the fuck out of and rape the resources of until that too is fucked but it's ok because they'll be "alright jack". I struggle to see anything but capitulation for our species and relief for any left in our wake as some form of endgame.

I feel I often care too much (which is probably why I obversely ruffle some people up the wrong way) but I wish people would at least care a little bit and see the bigger picture.
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