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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1996189 times)
chalkies shorts

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« Reply #11400 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:09:02 »

Labour need to sort the left / right shit out. Grow a pair and tell momentum to fuck off and firm their own party. Move to the right of centre and talk to people, not at them. Get away from the intellectual superiority of thinking they're right, if only the electorate weren't too fucking stupid to see their brilliance. Starmer does seem to be doing this but filling it with nothing. They really need to get their communications together.
Talking of which the left wing press is as useless as our defence. The   right wing press is on to Boris more than the left. The FT and Times broke the decorating mallarky. The mail broke the bodies piled high stuff.
If you can't make a decent job of opposing this bunch of fucking corrupt, cronyist sleazeballs then you should be reconsidering your job.
Starmer is an intelligent man but not a leader. Hes got the presence of Conor Thomas.
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« Reply #11401 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:09:35 »

Buy this book. Read it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0141034645

It's easy to think everything is getting worse, but it really isn't. We have made hug strides as a species in a relatively short period of time. Life has genuinely never been better or safer for most.
Completely agree on the broad sweep, but the wave of authoritarian populist movements rising across the world, from Trump in the US, Putin in Russia, Duerte in the Philllipines, Bolsanaro in Brazil, Modi in India, Orban in Hungary, Erdoan in Turkey and of course the Brexitist mafia in the UK does suggest that many of those strides are at the very least under attack and may be about to get significantly worse.
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« Reply #11402 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:10:18 »

Labour need to sort the left / right shit out. Grow a pair and tell momentum to fuck off and firm their own party. Move to the right of centre and talk to people, not at them. Get away from the intellectual superiority of thinking they're right, if only the electorate weren't too fucking stupid to see their brilliance. Starmer does seem to be doing this but filling it with nothing. They really need to get their communications together.
Talking of which the left wing press is as useless as our defence. The   right wing press is on to Boris more than the left. The FT and Times broke the decorating mallarky. The mail broke the bodies piled high stuff.
If you can't make a decent job of opposing this bunch of fucking corrupt, cronyist sleazeballs then you should be reconsidering your job.
Starmer is an intelligent man but not a leader. Bes got the presence of Conor Thomas.
100% agree
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #11403 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:16:13 »

Completely agree on the broad sweep, but the wave of authoritarian populist movements rising across the world, from Trump in the US, Putin in Russia, Duerte in the Philllipines, Bolsanaro in Brazil, Modi in India, Orban in Hungary, Erdoan in Turkey and of course the Brexitist mafia in the UK does suggest that many of those strides are at the very least under attack and may be about to get significantly worse.

It won't last
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« Reply #11404 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:19:12 »

It won't last
Let's hope not. There's a considerable amount of human suffering and lasting damage being inflicted in the meantime though.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #11405 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 12:34:30 »

Buy this book. Read it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0141034645

It's easy to think everything is getting worse, but it really isn't. We have made huge strides as a species in a relatively short period of time. Life has genuinely never been better or safer for most.

I will do Jayo. Thanks. Have you read Collapse by Prof Jared Diamond (author of the Third Chimpanzee) at all? And also take a read about the "Town that continues to burn", Centralia, Pennsylvania. After their problems with waste, it was ordered to be set alight and it spread into coal mine tunnels there. This event happened in 1962 and all roads to it are now barricaded as it's deemed too unsafe - yet a handful of people still live there. Incredible story and example of poor human management of our environment.

I understand what you are saying but it feels like in the places it matters or where the biggest impact is/can be made positively, we are starting to go down a steep track of regression.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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Arriba

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« Reply #11406 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 13:04:34 »

Even if Labour need to get their house in order, I still don't understand why someone would stick a X next to a Tory candidate instead. That's just me though..
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #11407 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 13:19:22 »

Even if Labour need to get their house in order, I still don't understand why someone would stick a X next to a Tory candidate instead. That's just me though..

I'm the same. I'd rather spoil my paper than ever vote Tory. Although on this occasion went Green.
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #11408 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 13:20:24 »

I'm the same. I'd rather spoil my paper than ever vote Tory. Although on this occasion went Green.

I’d rather spoil my paper than vote Labour. Touchet.
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #11409 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 13:21:39 »

I’d rather spoil my paper than vote Labour. Touchet.

As is your right.
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we've been to Aberdeen, we hate the Hibs, they make us spew up, so make some noise,
the gorgie boys, for Hearts in Europe.
RobertT

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« Reply #11410 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 13:27:43 »

Even if Labour need to get their house in order, I still don't understand why someone would stick a X next to a Tory candidate instead. That's just me though..

Fear and simple solutions.

You create fear, a much greater motivator than opportunity.  If I invite you to walk towards me because I have something you might like, you might do, but you might not, and even if you do, it is probably cautious walking.  If I tell you there is a fire behind you and it is heading your way, you'll run towards me if I tell you I have a hose.

It is very hard to fight politics when you take it down to that level.  You either have to do something to take the fear away, make it seem less obviously bad, or offer your own simple solutions (probably knowing that won't be enough anyway).

Take the Labour Party in 1997 - as much as people may hate them for what they were, they got into power by offering some basic solutions to complex situations that had generated a lot of fear.

Their manifesto included things like:

Protect the NHS and spend 100m on patients by reducing spending on Admin and cut waiting lists
Free Childcare for 4 and 5 year olds
Cut class sizes to less than zero by increasing spend on Education as a % of total spend
Minimum Wage, Maximum hours and guaranteed time off
Locking up youth offenders more often and more quickly
Devolution for Scotland, NI, Wales, London & the Regions (the latter didn't really work)

They were not completely left wing, in fact, the Tories probably wouldn't disband any of these items or suggest they would.

They responded to potential fears, real or otherwise - if I get ill it may take ages to get seen, I can't get a job because childcare costs too much, I won't earn enough money because employers hold all the cards, I'm worried about all that nasty crime the right wing press tells me exists on my doorstep, the UK Govt doesn't care about us Scots etc.

A party needs to address similar fears of today:

My job is at risk - it may be pinched by a nasty immigrant or go to their country
I don't have a job - as much as benefits helps, I actually want a job (or think I do)
The school I send my kids to is probably teaching them crazy stuff and isn't much kop beyond that

The Tories have clear ways of handling these problems, you may not agree with them personally, but to plenty of people they offer a solution.  Like the Trump policy of building a wall to keep the immigrants out (which completely ignored the fact most of us come via air), Brexit and control of borders is the easy solution.  Stops all those pesky foreign people who speak other languages from coming.  A Party needs to do two things - first, show up the holes in the wall.  Second, offer something else that sounds just as simple and effective.

Jobs offshore - USA went after Trade policy - we'll charge the nasty Chinese more to send their shit over here so everyone will build and buy USA.  The trade deficit actually widened, but it still sounded good.  In the UK, you have the Brexit problem to solve - how to sell stuff abroad, so you tout free trade deals and show the EU as a blocker.  Our Sovereignty will set us free.  Time for other parties to accept the world as it is - offer trade policies for a world post Brexit and stop moaning about it.  There is a fucking huge trade bloc just to the right of the UK, start offering policies to fix the Brexit red tape problems.

And so on.

You get Power first, then you fix the shit that matters but people don't vote on.
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #11411 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 13:55:33 »

As is your right.

And yours of course.
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #11412 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 14:12:04 »

I will do Jayo. Thanks. Have you read Collapse by Prof Jared Diamond (author of the Third Chimpanzee) at all? And also take a read about the "Town that continues to burn", Centralia, Pennsylvania. After their problems with waste, it was ordered to be set alight and it spread into coal mine tunnels there. This event happened in 1962 and all roads to it are now barricaded as it's deemed too unsafe - yet a handful of people still live there. Incredible story and example of poor human management of our environment.

I understand what you are saying but it feels like in the places it matters or where the biggest impact is/can be made positively, we are starting to go down a steep track of regression.

That town was the inspiration for Silent Hill
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #11413 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 14:21:23 »

That town was the inspiration for Silent Hill

Ha! That's weird. The article I read a while back never mentioned Silent Hill but I always thought there were some kind of similarities.

*Googles - Centralia Silent Hill*

And there she is!

I say weird because I was only talking about SH in the Films Fred, last night. It also explains why the computer game to film works quite well in this instance too. That satisfies the section of my "tedious (or not so) links" part of my grey matter. Cheers!
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'Incessant Nonsense'

______________________________________________________________

'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #11414 on: Friday, May 7, 2021, 15:01:04 »

Yeah I only mention it because you spoke of Silent Hill in another post but hadn't seemed to make the connection
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