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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #5985 on: Wednesday, October 14, 2020, 14:21:00 »

As for the Telegraph it is literally no different to Pravda these days!
TBF it's not printed in Cyrilic
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horlock07

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« Reply #5986 on: Wednesday, October 14, 2020, 14:38:11 »

TBF it's not printed in Cyrilic

I was going to say Völkischer Beobachter but Telegraph readers get sniffy about that!
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donkey
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« Reply #5987 on: Wednesday, October 14, 2020, 20:05:48 »

I was going to say Völkischer Beobachter but Telegraph readers get sniffy about that!
With the Mail as Der Stürmer.
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Batch
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« Reply #5988 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 08:32:27 »

interesting standoff between Manchester authority/mayor and the government at the moment in moving to tier 3.

Could just be a play for financial support from Manchester.

But without the support of the authority, surely the government imposing it on them will not be the most conducive for conformance.
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horlock07

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« Reply #5989 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 09:47:07 »

interesting standoff between Manchester authority/mayor and the government at the moment in moving to tier 3.

Could just be a play for financial support from Manchester.

But without the support of the authority, surely the government imposing it on them will not be the most conducive for conformance.

I think its someone in the north finally taking a stand against the government which is riding roughshod, rarely following the science and frankly taking the piss.

So we had earlier in the week the fuss that local MP's were not being spoken to before measures were enacted, so what did Mancock do, held some zoom meetings on Monday morning (when its common knowledge that most provincial MP's are travelling back to London from their constituencies normally on public transport) that many MP's could not attend due to lack of/piss poor Wi-Fi on trains, and possibly should not be doing anyway due to confidentially issues of trying to dial in from a public place.

When they can dial in with have a Warrington MP invited to the Merseyside one, whilst the MP for Wigan (who is pretty high profile these days) is not invited to the GM one. This has extended into the week with only one (of the 3) Mackem MP's being invited to the one affecting Sunderland. Its either a complete sodding shambles or being deliberately awkward and discourteous!

May as well land this here as much is covid related. https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=20
« Last Edit: Friday, October 16, 2020, 11:38:37 by horlock07 » Logged
pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #5990 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 10:36:07 »

Serco Test and Trace (it's not NHS, it's been outsourced to private contractors with a history of failure) reaches a record new low of failure, now reaching less than 2/3 of close contacts to tell them to self-isolate. SAGE have said the system only works if at least 80% of contacts are traced, which is why they described the impact of this miserable failure of privatisation as "marginal". That's £12bn worth of failure

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nhs-test-and-trace-worst-contact-rate-ever_uk_5f881d57c5b6c4bb54731dbf
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horlock07

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« Reply #5991 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 12:07:33 »

Serco Test and Trace (it's not NHS, it's been outsourced to private contractors with a history of failure) reaches a record new low of failure, now reaching less than 2/3 of close contacts to tell them to self-isolate. SAGE have said the system only works if at least 80% of contacts are traced, which is why they described the impact of this miserable failure of privatisation as "marginal". That's £12bn worth of failure

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nhs-test-and-trace-worst-contact-rate-ever_uk_5f881d57c5b6c4bb54731dbf

Thankfully I would assume that with such an enormous failure in contract delivery there will be penalty clause to get our money back...

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/serco-handed-test-and-trace-contract-with-no-penalties-for-poor-performance/15/10/

As unlucky Alf would say, Oh Bugger
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theakston2k

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« Reply #5992 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 12:10:53 »

These measures are nuts and draconian, seems to be much more widespread defiance than for the last lockdown. I get that to certain high risk individuals the virus is dangerous but I still don’t agree that such a low mortality virus warrants such extreme measures. The average age of people dying from it is greater than the average U.K. life expectancy so I don’t see why everyone should be forced to put their life on hold. In my opinion I still think that long term the restrictions are going to be far more destructive than the virus itself.
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Flashheart

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« Reply #5993 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 12:17:56 »

These measures are nuts and draconian, seems to be much more widespread defiance than for the last lockdown. I get that to certain high risk individuals the virus is dangerous but I still don’t agree that such a low mortality virus warrants such extreme measures. The average age of people dying from it is greater than the average U.K. life expectancy so I don’t see why everyone should be forced to put their life on hold. In my opinion I still think that long term the restrictions are going to be far more destructive than the virus itself.

You seem to have completely overlooked the matter of the health service being swamped - which is why such measures are needed. This 'low mortality' virus becomes a much higher fatality virus if medical assistance is not available. Not to mention a lack of medical facilities for people with non-covd related problems.

I'm not necessarily saying that a lockdown is the right thing to do, but to call it a 'low mortality' virus just makes you sound as though you don't understand the issue.  

"Flatten the curve" - in order to help health service cope. It's been what they've been saying from square one.

That, and even a small percentage still means A LOT of people when dealing with large numbers. But it's nuts to try and save people's live?
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« Reply #5994 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 12:18:09 »

But left unchecked don't you think that the mortality rate would rocket?
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pauld
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« Reply #5995 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 12:47:03 »

It's not just mortality. The proponents of the laissez faire "let it rip" approach consistently ignore the frequently severe effects of Long Covid. Or the fact that we don't know about long-term effects on those with seemingly mild symptoms or the asymptomatic (e.g. there has been suggestions of long term lung damage or to the cardiovascular system). In other words, you might catch it, suffer relatively mild symptoms or none at all and then go on to suffer much more severe long term consequences that don't immediately manifest.
« Last Edit: Friday, October 16, 2020, 12:58:55 by pauld » Logged
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« Reply #5996 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 12:56:18 »

Indeed
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theakston2k

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« Reply #5997 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 13:04:05 »

You seem to have completely overlooked the matter of the health service being swamped - which is why such measures are needed. This 'low mortality' virus becomes a much higher fatality virus if medical assistance is not available. Not to mention a lack of medical facilities for people with non-covd related problems.

I'm not necessarily saying that a lockdown is the right thing to do, but to call it a 'low mortality' virus just makes you sound as though you don't understand the issue.  

"Flatten the curve" - in order to help health service cope. It's been what they've been saying from square one.

That, and even a small percentage still means A LOT of people when dealing with large numbers. But it's nuts to try and save people's live?
Yeah but you've got the WHO now not recommending lockdowns, mental health issues, cancer screening going unchecked and the economy going down the pan which will lead to high unemployment figures. Everything is so focused on COVID19 at the moment and there are a hell of a lot of other things that are causing just as much if not more suffering. There needs to be a balance, we could ban driving and that would save a few thousand lives but clearly that wouldn't be the right thing to do. I probably sound callous but there is no guarantee how long this is all going to go on for and at some point some difficult decisions are going to need to be made for the good of the majority of the population.
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Flashheart

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« Reply #5998 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 13:13:04 »

Yeah but you've got the WHO now not recommending lockdowns, mental health issues, cancer screening going unchecked and the economy going down the pan which will lead to high unemployment figures.

Fine.

Again, I am not necessarily claiming that there should be lockdowns.

My problem is with the use of 'low fatality virus'. It makes you sound like an anti-masker, or one of these people who claim it is just another flu. It makes you sound like somebody who is not that bright, or a hard righter --- but you don't strike me as somebody who is at all stupid. Regardless, calling it a 'low fatality virus' puts you in the 'you can't take my rights' brigade.

You might have a good point over whether or not there should be lockdowns, but calling it a 'low fatality virus' devalues everything else that comes after you say it.
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theakston2k

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« Reply #5999 on: Friday, October 16, 2020, 13:23:24 »

Fine.

Again, I am not necessarily claiming that there should be lockdowns.

My problem is with the use of 'low fatality virus'. It makes you sound like an anti-masker, or one of these people who claim it is just another flu. It makes you sound like somebody who is not that bright, or a hard righter --- but you don't strike me as somebody who is at all stupid. Regardless, calling it a 'low fatality virus' puts you in the 'you can't take my rights' brigade.

You might have a good point over whether or not there should be lockdowns, but calling it a 'low fatality virus' devalues everything else that comes after you say it.

It obviously needs to be monitored and have no issues with wearing a mask but effectively locking down the country as if we are in wartime is helpful to no one. I visited my 96 year old aunt the other day and she said she'd rather die than not have any visitors or socialise so these measures are destroying peoples lives as much as saving them.
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