Thetownend.com

Justice is a shag rug, a 52 inch tv and a pair of bifocals! What the hell has aldi ever done to you tottenham!

Fire in tottenham

Police suspect arsene

exactly, my mate lives there its an awfull place

A real shite hole.
I deliver to a printers there and hate the place.

from failed Ghanian keeper Richard Kingson's twitter:

Went looting in Spurs last night, broke into the White Hart Lane cabinet, so left with a pile of dust and a Gareth Bale DVD.

I lived in Tottenham for a few months in the early 90's, right next to Broadwater Farm. I can confirm it is indeed a shit hole.

Apart from the oasis that is Bruce Castle Park with the Antwerp Arms pub right next to it, not far from White Hart Lane. That was rather nice. Always used to be anyway. Don't know what it's like now.

Absolute carnage, alot worse than what I expected.

I'm scratching my head over this thread. Could someone enlighten me?

rioting on a large scale last night, keep up ;D

Ah right, I see. (Or not as the case may have been.) :)

Some bloke was shot last week. People wanted answers to why it happened. Didn't get any answers. Decided to smash the place up.

Ive got a few mates who live near Wood Green, and sometimes people who grow up in that area will say 'its not as bad as you think' and all this. But they dont, in fact one of them said today on facebook it would be an improvement to humanity if they nuked the place, which just about sums it up.

Ive walked round Broadwater farm a few times whilst staying with them (not through it, a complete no go), and I would say its the most intimidating areas Ive ever walked in. In fact they even told me not to look anyone in the eye and keep walking if anyone shouted at us.

There is no excuse for parts of London to be like this, we are one of the richest countries in the world, and the south east is by far our most affluent area (sucking the life out of other regions). It is a national disgrace.

Like with most riots,looks like a worthy protest was hijacked by morons intent on causing trouble.

Not exactly true though is it.

Some bloke was shot last week. People wanted answers to why it happened. They didn't get any answers but many twats who had nothing to do with the protest just wanted to take advantage of the situation and try and get lucky with looting and using it as an excuse to have a go at the Police and to smash the place up.

Not exactly true either though is it.

To say they havn't got any answers is a bit wrong.There is a investigation ongoing but they can't be assed to wait.The rest i agree with you on.

More trouble tonight no doubt.

Already kicking off in Enfield apparently

I hope they get shot.

They should give them the water cannon treatment.

why bother with water ?

Tear gas and rubber bullets, that's what should be happening

send the new 'dragon' in, that'll scare 'em off

They should use water cannons with indelible fluorescent pink DNA water douse the lot then round them up.

If that don't work bring in the Syrian police and swap water for napalm

They should just bring out all the kit they mothballed from the RUC in NI and use that on the scum.

Why not send the Scummers in. They could talk to them about taking the Town End and how they are going to drink in the Merlin pub - that'll get these cunts back to their beds quicker than playing Swagger fucking Jagger at high volume

Ironically the only paper not covering this is "LOOT" :D

Looking like nuking tottenham is the only solution

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Bricks and petrol bombs, give the cunts a taste of their own medicine.

Daniel Levy will be loving the weekends events.

These rioters are the UK's shame, worse than Rangers supporters. 

Ive spent the last 3 days working festivals in Hackney.  As soon as I leave it kicks off.  One can only presume I was keeping the peace.  It seems the youth of London want to fight the powere.  The power in this case being Mr Jd Sports.

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy must absolutely gutted.All this looting and robbing in the area and nobody has taken Robbie Keane.

Leon Knight was arrested for looting over the weekend, but was released today after the CPS said even they wouldn't give him a trial.

Superb

Bullring been closed in Birmingham due to "Events In The City".

Now kicking off in Lewisham and Hackney.

They burned down a Greggs in Peckham :(

Not like mass riots to break out under a tory government. Ohhhhhhhhhh.

He shoots, he scores

The Police have got to stop this escalating. If they've got to use plastic bullets and water cannons...so be it.

...which would be like trying to put a fire out with kerosene.

Class!

That's not looters that's my missus trying to cook for the looters.

Love my sausage rolls well done

i understand its hard for the police, but all they seem to be doing is chasing them away, where thay cause more damage, they need to do a pincer movement and give them a right good kicking

http://yfrog.com/z/h07mxcyzj

:no:
kicking off in brum now

Anyone for a riot in the West Swindon area? I'm a bit bored, and there's some food left in the Tesco Bakery if we can get there before 10.


 :girlgiggle:

pardon my ignorance, but is all this violence all due to the police shooting someone? Or are people doing it just for shits and giggles now?

twat on tv trying to defend the riots said, "its the summer holidays, its hot, and theres not much for the kids to do" ::)

If anarchy hit Newcastle then I dare say that the road near me would be a target.

Luckily the regular dose of Newcastle Brown and heroin makes the people who linger around there quite lethargic.

In a totally unrelated matter, are you still with the Mrs that supports City?


And TVs and Bluray players. Gone way beyond the original cause of the (peaceful) protest and onto tearing up and looting for no reason other than personal gain. Tossers.

Some reports of kids trying on trainers before looting them.
Picky pikeys!

Yep.

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

4/5 separate fires in Croydon.

croydons a shithole anyway

Tomorrow could be interesting then..



It is, but there could easily be lives at stake here.

hahaha that Irish guy on BBC News.

Honestly think the student demo's have opened us up to this. Parts of London have been a city on the edge for 5 years or more now and the Police needed kettling and other robocop proceedures to keep on top of it. Yes, the Police are partly to blame themselves with things like the death of the newspaper seller, but it was the selfishness of the student riots that opened this door.

London - what a disgrace - what a shithole.

Just switched on sky news and have seen Croydon is on fire, looked like I picked a good week to go on holiday......

Cameron's coming home. Shit just got real.

He's run out of foie gras.

Country has been completely rudderless. No police leadership due to NOTW hacking. Shit Police tactics due to giving into the student protester moaning. No politicians, all on holliday.

And to think some of them were still paying attention to the FTSE this week.

I think what you're trying to say is we need someone who's going to make the trains run on time?

Isn't there someone on here that lives in Croydon?

Fuck off PdC is staying with us.

My brother otanswell.

Hes not a happy bunny

They are trying to nick TV's from bookies now,

That is mental live coverage on Sky News

.. the bloke filming it on a phone while it's happening

'Is this fun, is it?'  Quality journalism.

anarchy plain and simple, this country is fucked

I love the way the media are making such a big deal about Dave cutting short his holiday. It's almost as if they think he's going to suit up in riot gear and join the frontline to sort out the scum. Instead he's going to chair a meeting in the morning. Yep that will solve everything.

I do... but I am in Devon.

Absolutley shocking pictures, I've got plenty of family close to the town centre.

its just turned into a significant amount of morons going on the rampage and the police are being given the run around by the looks of it

Twitterers should follow this guy, if like me you can't watch the news!

@TheWestLondoner

the police need to get a grip, its not there fault but people  get more shit from them for not wearing a seat belt

just whacked on the bbc news channel and fuck me its spread to brum and all

shit is getting serious

Just as Morrisey prophesised...

Thatchers underclass in full effect.
You reap what you sow.

I can't believe this has got so out of hand.  It's a wonder nobody has been killed in one of the fires.  Absolute disgrace.

I fear it's going to take something like that to put an end to this.

just heard great news Borris Johnosn has cancelled his holiday

should get a good press conference tomorrow then

Never understand the logic of apportioning any of the blame to the Police when it kicks off like this. How about just blaming the mindless thugs that are actually causing the trouble rather than those risking their lives trying to stop them?

Police now say to avoid any part of Croydon town centre north of the flyover. Please RT to all.

Its a tricky one isn't it. Go in heavy handed then risk even more of a flare up. Do nothing and people could die.

It needs to be put to bed sooner rather than later for that reason.


Shame it isn't Morrisey clones rioting. Police could disperse them with rubber buggers.

Exactly. Whose fault is it that a group of individuals decide to break into a shop? Or throw missiles at riot police? Or set cars and buses and buildings on fire? We can blame poverty for causing aggrovation, we can blame social media for facilitating spontaneous organisation, we can blame the police or the government for alienating social groups, but at the end of the day there is nobody in this society who has any just cause to do the things that are being done. It is a matter of people seeking an opportunity to look good, to get something for themselves, and to get a kick out of something they're likely to get away with.

Its all kicked off in Chichester, someone's jumped an amber light

[url width=420 height=500]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4757366660_eacdb383f3.jpg[/url]

On the positive side, Facebook is as good as it's been for ages tonight.

http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH

not saying its the police's fault far from it, the point i was trying to make is they need to start to man up, which they do when its a driving offence etc

morissey was in brixton last night. i can only assume he's incited them and it's the vegetarian fightback against you lot (there was a nando's on fire in croydon).

i appear not to have got the memo though

I have friends in London and family in Croydon close to rioting.

They are properly scared, as the rioters seem happy to turn on anything and anyone.

This woman is my new hero:

http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH

Also this:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/368035595.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312840413&Signature=enQM5d%2FUlta29wvqsa%2Fbqlk1tuM%3D

A Childrens Hospital in Birmingham has been targeted now. Windows smashed up.

"People are getting in their cars and running down these rioters to protect their area in East Ham as no cops around"

Looting in Walsall and Wolverhampton.

Ha bingo, what's the Thatcher version of Godwin's law - you didn't disappoint me.

"Twitters say there are tigers on the loose in Primrose Hill, chavs let them out of the zoo."

Fuck all like Godwins law.

this just seems like a  bunch of *****  waiting  for an excuse to rob and attack innocent people and  there homes , im not saying the police are not in any way to blame and they have definately not helped apparently leaving tottenham and brixton to burn whilst protecting enfield and the west end .The best thing ive read about this is apparentely a mob went down a greek/turkey neighborhood who had no police protection but where ready for them and sent the cowards running. Unless the police and politicians get on top of this problem this will happen everytime some scum want a riot and a loot, and it will escalate to other parts of the country .

We were warned about this by the kaiser chiefs.

Exactly like, any problems in the country even after 21 years of her leaving office someone always mentions / blames Thatcher.

A generation later. don't forget the evil bitch did some of the worst social re engineering this country has ever seen. I'm with arriba on this one.

West Ham v Aldershot League Cup game cancelled.

Not surprising.

I bet Everton fans are hoping the game with Spurs is called off so as the shops are restocked when they play there.

England game must be in doubt if police are needed elsewhere?

If it becomes obvious that people dont give a shit about their community, their society, and the people around them, I also tend to blame the woman who created a generation of selfish people and changed society for the worse.  She said it herself, 'there is no such thing as society'.  That generation have now had kids and instilled the same lack of value in them.

Whatever the views on Thatcher, the point remains we've had 21 years without her so why is it still her fault rather than the legacy of 13 years of a Labour government who could've reversed her policies?

Charlton v Reading OFF

Looks like all of London's sporting events have been canned. No Ghana appearance for Atiku then.

as gk nash quite rightly stated, the views instilled in the parents - ie its all about me, me, me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq1oonrfK8I&sns=fb

Roller Skates!!

Thought this was pretty funny aswell-

http://twitpic.com/634l4r

Interestingly, a lot of the actual ethnic "community" areas seem to be policing themselves at the moment, as by all accounts the police aren't bothering. Hard to sort fact from fiction online at the moment, but a lot of reports of Turks and Kurds defending their property.

Not sure what conclusions to draw from that really, but interesting all the same.

David Cameron "I am granting the Metropolitan Police emergency powers to use water cannons, rubber bullets (cont) http://tl.gd/c8uqcu

Girl in Currys uniform arrested for looting... Currys :doh:

[url width=900 height=517]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/08/article-2023554-0D58092100000578-48_964x554.jpg[/url]

Supposedly there are no water cannons in England.

Bullshit, there's one at the Oasis!

 :clap:

We share them with the French

Ken Livingstone campaigning like crazy.

If it was football fans they'd be quick enough to find them. (i'm sure this has already been said but i'm not up to date with the 8 pages of posts)

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/368046249.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312843022&Signature=oPq4USMQdafeKWsoWH%2BRf7%2FoLQ8%3D

the mrs just raised a good point - given the amount of jobless cunts young people in swindon what are the chances of this madness reaching swindon

@JHendersonLFC
JordanHendersonFans
Get the Army in there!! Get them to start putting bullets in bodies of the rioters,then they might stop!! #londonriots

trying to find the silver lining here but.......At least it wasn't over a hockey game? Eh, eh?

If it hits chippenham you know were really at rock bottom.

Basmati bad man

Haha!

They should bring in the Peckham terminator to sort them out.

[url width=480 height=360]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D-NBTm9oN1c/0.jpg[/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkWtMNBgf48&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Modric is definitely off now  

These people clearly haven't got jobs. At the end of the day were still in a recession and the only people who are going to be hit by these riots are the tax payers!!! I for one am extremely pissed off that I work my ass off in a dead end minimum wage job trying to try and get by, only to pay tax to cover costs of these cunts!!! Whether it be police bills, prison costs, court costs, repair bills the list can go on. This country's going to shit.

 agreed .why are they asking 14 year olds where are the parents  , when they probably are the parents , fucking thieving oppurtunistic bastards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YVV7unGKic

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/08/08/london-riots-terrified-woman-jumps-from-burning-building-115875-23330390/

That photos is astonishing. Just goes to show some people just don't give a shit about others. Has anyone heard of trouble in Swindon? Not saying there has been but for last hour police helicopters been floating about.

Maybe I'm being naive but can't imagine it happening here as the mob mentality isn't here. Don't get me wrong if it happened in Swindon I think the streets would be full. But can't imagine a large enough group kicked off to get the initial spark. If that makes sense?

Just heard the chopper go over here too...

That's horrible

Probably not it's just been around for a while. I know it would be hard for the mindless idiots to get a large enough group but with social networking the possibilities are endless....

Was just thinking that, it seems to just grow. However there have been big riots before. Think of the rangers game in Manchester not to long ago. Probably not as big but it was dealt with. The ones in Canada this year (or last) were insane as well, they lasted a few days. End of the day we have some of the best law enforcement in the world in this country. It'll be dealt with, just a matter of when. And when it is, it'll be without all the extreme violence that some suggest, just the required force.

Bit liberal pussy like i know. And apologies if i just pointed out the obvious.

To be fair, on both facebook and twitter I have seen no one try to start anything.

Everyone has been horrified...

That's true, but assuming the people who i have on FB and twitter wouldn't be up for a riot anyways. But haven't heard anything through the grape vine so i'll sleep easy tonight.

Reports of cars on fire in Liverpool.

Fuck me, I would not of thought it would jump city like that. What's the source?

An every-day story surely?

Yeah that's true I'm just reading into too much. Although the choppers still about  :headhurts:

i dont know if it was a coincidence but there was a helicopter above our area for an hour last night (but then there usually is ), luckily i was hiding under the bed so didnt know what happened

http://www.guardian.co.uk/

The slide show on the front page of The Guardian  look like the end of Harry Brown

[url width=600 height=300]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PLT3lSmAJo4/TkBl2V53cGI/AAAAAAAAT2I/RFaUOMflqfk/s1600/Cameron+riots.jpg[/url]

  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:Nice. First the student riots now this, Torries aren't doing so great  ;)

That made me laugh, so I've stolen it and posted it to my facebook..

are people really blaming the tories for this? whoever is in power would make no difference to how these people behave, they're brought up like this, they're rioting for the hell of it, there's no reason or cause they're fighting for.

i've said it before in one of these threads, there will be civil war one day but it won't be against the police, it will be between pissed off white people against all these people who play the system and don't give a flying fuck about England or the people in it.

 :nod:

I've just got home, and saw a bloke in a hoody looking like he wanted to loot McColls on Vic Hill.

Sorry it was strictly a joke. Obviously riots happen quite often really. But pissed of white people? Fairly marginalised view on society. These people are rioting because they are dick heads but you can only be made a dick head through your habitat and surroundings. I'm gunna take a punt and say 9/10 of us on this thread would be reacting exactly the same if we were born and raised in the same environment as the looters, regardless of race, gender class etc.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v​=9AlH2oYedfk

ye i shouldn't have really said white people, i don't think it will be a race thing, but people will eventually get sick of these scroungers who bleed the country dry and riot for the hell of it. I would love to be part of the riot police and twat any of these rioters, whether white, black or asian.

I think its going to be the hard working public kicking off at the scumbag spongers, which could quickly deteriorate a pop at illegal immigrants and what not.

Fair enough, possibly jumped down your throat a bit early considering you never posted anything remotely racist before so apologies. However again I'll be a left wing pussy and say that I still think that the problem is there are no opportunities for most of these people. Not sayin there's a solution but if I was born and raised in a different neighbourhood, family etc, I'd have no idea how I'd act. But your right rioters are fucking cunts.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/looting-fuelled-by-social-exclusion Kind of interesting  

People on twitter but Sky News now picking up on it.

Yep, being reported now. 'Latest Liverpool' Its spreading, fast. Whats the chances of our cup tie being called off tonight?

And 1700 extra officers have just been positioned in NE/SE London.

Anyone hearing lots of police sirens in Swindon?

No but that may be cause I'm sobbing in fear under my sheets

one could kind of understand it if it was a rise against some controlling government by the public, but this is thugs rioting for the hell of it and more than likely see it as a great opportunity to get free stuff by looting. I can see why people are looting in a sense, when many of them don't have much money and so the opportunity to obtain free stuff is too good an offer to turn down for most of them, but its the mindless violence and burning of buildings and cars that pisses most people off, myself included. I think the police have to go in heavy to stop it, but the chances of this happening are pretty slim after the way people complained with the handling of the student riots.

Yea agreed the rioting is awful and I am by now way saying its ok. It is completely fucked. Can you remember the Canadian riots like this year or last year, that went on for a few days, not sure who the police handled it in the end though. I thought people were complaining that the police didn't act quickly or swiftly enough as they focussed their attention in the wrong areas. But not gunna try and start spouting facts. I've heard a million different things from a million different outlets. Safe to say, I am fucking clueless

 Don't think there's anyway that London can now host the Olympic Games....not able to ensure the safety of visitors and participants.

maybe they can use the army to keep the peace! i don't think they'll take the olympics from london, who else could do it at such short notice?

News now that a group of people have got into cabot circus in bristol, lets hope it isn't too bad i'm looking forward to ashton gate!! http://twitpic.com/636dct

I'm sure Sydney would give it a go.

Has anyone seen V for Vendetta

ye thats a great film, but in that at least they're rising up against a dictatorship of a government rather than just rioting against society! he has a cool mask too!

soapy tit wank i was thinking that as i wrote it. But did all start over a police shooting? Some kind of loose connection there. That mask is awesome though

You don't think that we have a dictatorship for a government?

The riots are against corrupt authority. Police and state. People have had enough and that applies to all levels of society, not just the lower echelons.

Just wait and see what these guys do when the financial crash happens in the near future and the state can't pay the unemployment/disability/child credit benefits. Then you will see V for Vendetta become reality.

no i don't think we have a dictatorship for a government, you think our government is on par with that of Nazi Germany or Zimbabwe? is it hell.

These riots aren't against authority at all, there was a peaceful demonstration in Tottenham over the shooting, these rioters are scroungers looking for trouble and looking for free things to steal, they're not fighting against the government at all. I think people will soon have enough, but it will be the general public having enough of these people rioting, fighting and looting, not the other way around.

A friend of mine in Tottenham (he's fine thank fucking god) saw a sony factory go up in flames and talked to the copper there. He said he thought it was gunna go national :-|. I know he's probably just a bobby on the beat kind of cop so probably doesn't know as much as the "higher ups" but just passing it on.

When have a government ever listened to anything the electorate wanted? The ruling elite don't give a fuck what you and I think. There is no contract on election. Pre-election promises mean zilch. They can do what they like once they are in power. That is a dictatorship by definition. Red, blue, yellow makes no difference.


You mistake the media line of looting for the bigger picture of a loss of respect for those in power. It is all pervasive and very real. These are attacks on authority by those that the state has moulded through years of indulgence and vote buying. Put yourself in their shoes. Crap schooling, single parents, shit law and order, no job prospects because of the fucked up dead hand of state 'economic policies'. Delivered by governments over the past 60 years who are the very people 'responsible' for making their lives better. It all comes home to roost.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-metropolitan-police-london

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/looting-fuelled-by-social-exclusion

Some interesting and relevant articles worth a read in my opinon

You think the MSM and the Guardian in particular is interesting and relevant? It has sod all to do with social exclusion. The leftys will always cry into their muesli and call for more spending on 'social programmes' when the reality it is socialism that has caused this cluster fuck in the first place.

And no, I am not a conservative or any flavour of democracy. It is all completely screwed.

I eat porridge in the morning actually. And you must be a fast fucking reader to have looked at them already. Funny though I don't think that the words social programmes are mentioned at all. Your views seem strage to me though you believe that socialism (a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.) is responsible for all this. So should I assumed that you are a Marxist who is all for over throwing bourgeois? I wasn't trying to force these articles upon anyone, if you disagree fair enough. However i would like to point out you said "Put yourself in their shoes. Crap schooling, single parents, shit law and order, no job prospects because of the fucked up dead hand of state 'economic policies'. Delivered by governments over the past 60 years who are the very people 'responsible' for making their lives better. It all comes home to roost. ". So to summarise social exclusion really, these people have been ignored and marginalised by the government (right and left) and when given the chance to rebel they take it.

And I'd never suggest your conservative you are far to anti establishment for that. But you are right it is all fucked.

I skimmed the articles but to be honest I didn't have to read them. I know exactly what line the Guardian (and their AV cohorts, the BBC) always take.

The people who are rioting have not been ignored or marginalised. They have been formed by successive governments. Their votes have been bought by the socialisation of the underclasses and now the pot is running dry. It is the same for those working in the public sector. When 55% of the country's employed work for the state (with a huge number of dependent businesses and hence 'private sector' employees) it is simply unsustainable. The debt crisis is the end game. Public sector cuts are now unfeasible, it is going to turn very very ugly.

Now I'm very confused as I think your making points that I agree with and pretty much said. When i say ignored and marginalised you say formed. I'm not sure if these people are consciously formed by the bourgeois (there I said it)  or an after fact of a fucked up government that has ignored their needs so they can focus on their own profits. Either case though this sounds a group of people who have been disregarded by their government. But i have the habit of being stubborn and not being able to see the other sides argument, and your either a mad man or my intelectual superior. Either way no point going back and forth like this, even though i genuinely enjoy discussions like this.

One point that you are 100% wrong though in my opinion. Yes ok New outlets normally spout the same bull shit, not reading them and then saying you don't need to read them seems like a huge downfall.

If you have any thing to read on the points you made I'd appreciate it, try and understand where your coming from etc.   

Also you have no idea how tempted i was to just leave this emoticon  :gay: as a response after your very insightful response. I took the high road though. OR at least the highest road i know

*You're (sorry)

I think that in the morning the usual mob will wade in and confirm your suspicions that I am indeed, a mad man in their eyes.

Intellectual superior? Nah, I doubt that. I do like your style though. Perhaps we need to talk over a beer or ten.

Night.

Yeah, he's definitely a mad man.

I don't care if your fishing here or not. But you're an absolute disgrace of an excuse of a man if you're even trying to justify what these kids are doing.  This isn't a riot against anything, it's just a riot for the sake of it. People are destroying other people's businesses, homes and cars. How is destroying those things a stance against corrupt government?

Talk Talk I used to quite enjoy reading your one man crusade against this and that, but I'm disgusted with your view here.  No one should be trying to make excuses for the scum that have done so much damage to other people's lives.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is 100% correct :nod:

Playing devils advocate slightly, but would this all be happening of people were happy and content? Of course it wouldn't. Is it a co-incidence that all the trouble is happening in low income areas of London? Of course it isn't.

The measure it's got too now is inexcusable, but how it started is understandable. By how it started I mean the stuff at the beginning in Tottenham, not the copycat shit over the last day and a bit.

I respectfully disagree. IMHO a legitimate protest at a police shooting was hi-jacked by dickheads who wanted to kick off and used this as an excuse to do so. Its profiteering and self interest mixed in with some mindless violence. I see no understandable reason as to why this is OK. I don't think said dickheads are being treated differently from the rest of the country. We are all in the same sinking financial ship.

Where as the Brixton riots of 1981 I can sort of understand. If you were continually stopped and searched because you were black then you'd get a bit pissed off at it.  
------
Had to laugh at a report I saw showing Dixons and the like looted, yet Waterstones untouched.

Pretty much agree with you here.
In 1981 the first outbreaks in Brixton & Toxteth had that background but they were followed by copycat riots, simply trouble-seeking dorks, across the nation - I guess we'll see the same all over the country this time unless we're very lucky - even extending to smaller cities & towns (like Swindon perhaps?).

Hence the mention of Thatcher earlier in the thread.

But if you asked 99% of these kids why they were rioting (and could actually get a truthful answer), they wouldn't say because of Thatcher, they wouldn't say because they government are corrupt, they'd say they were after a shiny pair of Reebok Classics and a 50" plasma TV.

I wonder if he'd (TT) be saying the same if he saw the god awful state of Clapham this morning.

The destruction is just undescribable and can in no way shape or form be justified.

What may have started as an uprising against the police and state has turned into a free for all. It is now opportunist thieves on the streets who have nothing better to do with their time.The british underclass. I expect it to kick off in Swindon. If Penhill was closer to the town centre it probably would have already.

I can't work out whether this is a social uprising or just that smashing things and stealing is fun and exciting...

One thing seeing these things on the news but when its happening where you are it’s pretty scary. Furniture shop about a mile from my house was up in flames last night in Croydon, could see the smoke all through the night and there were helicopters and sirens going past until about 3am. Luckily no one I know seems to have been seriously affected by the violence though.

Makes me furious, that these cunts use the excuse of a peaceful and legitimate vigil/protest to spark 3 days and counting of the most despicable violence, thievery and outright destruction that goes against everything a community should stand for.

Fair play to the police they are doing what they can, its very difficult to control a situation like this without risking escalating it even further. When I got off the train last night they were excellent at funneling people away from the problem areas and ensuring people could get home safely.

Don't think Talk Talk was every trying to justify what these people were doing just explain it. Yea the people doing it are fucking dick heads but its not like that's a genetic gene. Dickhead's area a product of the environment. Or im my opinion they are, doesn't mean what they have done is right. Also, I think with the resources available the police have done a great job and that after the dust has setled they'll be a fucking long case bringing a lot of these people to justice. As for all the other stuf tak talk said, was a fucking interesting debate (if you can call it that).

I do agree that much of the violence is opportunistic, but step back and ask why it's happening now.  My view is that this is part of a readjustment, where living standards in this country are on the decline.  The East is rising and the West, relatively, is in decline.  The problem with readjustments, however, is that they are rarely orderly or smooth.  They happen in fits and starts, gears get crunched.  It's never pretty.

The West's decline relative to the East has been happening for well over a decade, but we've not seen this show up in our living standards because of the vast sums of money the East (principally China) has been prepared to lend at low rates of interest since the start of the century.  That source of funding has now dried up, so the disorderly readjustment starts.

Of course, the effect of this impacts disproportionately on the youngest, and least on the oldest.  If you're 50+, you're likely to have benefitted more from the good times, you'll have been able to buy your house cheaply and, most likely, the mortgage will now have been paid off.  Your pension is likely to be generous, on terms simply not available to the younger generation (if, that is, they can find work.)  Day to day items have been cheap for most of your life because Far East economies have been producing them for a pittance.

If you're 25 or under, you'll be acutely aware that opportunities available to your parents will not be available to you.  The biggest opportunity is the opportunity to work.  When the squeeze came, those already in jobs clung on (and are still clinging on) for dear life - and understandably so.  But the conveyer belt broke down so that the youngest generation of adults have not been able to enter the labour market in the same numbers.  Things cost more, you have less money, a university education is no longer provided by the state but, instead, costs the same as a high end car.  Not a great time to be in your 20s.

I'm not excusing violence; I'm just explaining why I'm not surprised that this has all kicked off.  There's a very pissed off, disenfranchised generation of youngsters out there.  Add in school holidays and long, warm summer evenings...and it's not hard to see how something like the death in Tottenham is going to throw a spark on to the wood pile.

For once, I'm actually in agreement with at least some of what TalkTalk is saying.

Ardiles
Very good post i agree with the majority that you have to say
Couple of points late 70's early 80's were a familar scene difference now  is education beyond 18 is for well off people

I read from someone that the guy who was shot actually pulled a gun on the police. Can anyone confirm?

It's not... it's just portrayed that way. But that's a whole different debate.

No, nobody can... they're still investigating to find that out.

Yes this is true he was known for always carrying a gun

I think if its going to kick off in Swindon its more likely to be in the Manchester Road area than Penhill TBF Arriba.

450 arrested in 3 days and more to come. The police apparently reacted slowly but now seem to be doing a great job. Hopefully the worst is over now

Hi as i understand it 2012 is when the new tution fees come in and the cost is roughly 9K please let me know

Correct... but the way that money is paid is through a pay-as-you-earn loan repayment system after you leave university, therefore tuition fees themselves do not necessarily exclude anybody from higher education.

Of course these fees make it harder for people from a poorer background go to Uni. I recently graduated, my family make decent money but are no way that well off and I would never have gone with these new fees. Truth of the matter is most people i know need some financial help from their parents as well over the three years, regardless how much they work.

I would never go to university now, unless my parents were well off and Daddy could pay large amounts of my loan off for me ( i said daddy to come across as middle class, I never actually refer to it as that).

Yes the pay system is the same as always, pay as you earn, but its simple maths. The more expensive shit is the less the poor can afford it. Or at least this is how I see it.

but only 30 or so charged! Fucking awful!

Hadn't heard that. But yea that is terrible, but at least it's slowing people down and getting them of the streets. And as i mentioned somewhere earlier, I think a lot will be brought to justice once the dust had settled. So many fucking idiots were caught on CCTV without covering their faces.

Talking of which, anyone seen that clip of some kids helping an injured guy up, and then stealing from his back pack? Fuck me.

I agree that the fees deter people from going to university... but to say they make it unaffordable is simply factually incorrect. If your post-graduation income was such that you could only afford to pay back £1000 of your £3000/year loan under the old system, that's all you'd ever pay back. If your income is such that you can only pay back £1000 of your £9000/year loan under the incoming system, that's all you'll ever pay back.

The only difference is a potential change in how much of your future income you will retain, and that only comes into effect if you're earning a fair sum.

Sorry, I've derailed this thread by going back to an argument that was made perfectly clear months ago during the student riots.

About 70 charged so far, from 400 arrests.

Arguably this isn't derailed at all (another debate altogether). And you are right, on paper Uni is still fair game for anyone. But I just can't buy that and stand by my other argument. However everyone is entitled to their opinion and all that :D

Anyone worried about the cost of university has another option, the Open University. If you're out of work or on a low income the courses are free plus they'll give you some money towards the cost of materials, internet connection and so on. If you're in work it still works out pretty cheap plus you are earning whilst studying.

I wonder how many of the out of work youths that are rioting are currently taking advantage of a free degree course?

They should all be charged. They are literally getting away scot free. I know its not practical to keep them all locked up but they should have to clean up and work for free for those poor businesses.

As I said there are a lot of different thoughts on this subject. And I'm guessing a very small amount of these rioters are doing something like that, however, if I came from that kind of background I doubt I would either. Again not supporting or condoning what has happened.

Just saw another burning building on TV. How fucked up is that, not only stealing as much as you can carry but then burning down some poor bastards house or shop for no gain to your self.

Where did I state that I condoned the violence and steal? 'My view' says nothing about making excuses. I am completely the opposite in fact, I abhore the initiation of the use of force against persons and their property, including theft. I would never riot or attack coppers. Of course a lot of these arseholes are going to be opportunistic and loot if it benefits them. When they see their 'lord and master' MPs stealing hundreds of thousands of pounds from the public in expenses and police chief constables being arrested for fraud and corruption why should they feel any different. Same shit, different situation.


I would be saying exactly the same about the causes of this mess.


Thank you Michael. Good post and great to see somebody using their brain as opposed to the knee jerkers on here.


Another sensible post. I repeat - who has formed the environment and the social conditions and the employment situation and the benefit culture and the education system and the police and the criminal justice system that we live under? It is government that is completely inept at doing anything properly. Can you imagine if the state had the monopoly on mobile phone development? We would still be pulling boxes round on wheels.

There is no way around the argument that government is responsible for the situation we are in. It is payback time for a hell of a lot of pissed off 'citizens'.

Not a dig, but genuine questions TT...

What, in your opinion, should the government do over the next 2 days?
What should Joe Bloggs do over the next 2 days?
And what should happen in the long term to rectify what has caused this?

It's all about opportunism. The un-educated wait for an opportunity to act upon and an excuse to hide behind. You really think they're rioting because of the policies of the current government? Are they fuck.

Surely anyone attacking Talk Talk for his views in this thread is deliberately refusing to engage with them. I suspect we may not agree upon the best solution, but he's fucking right about the problems!

As for the looting, without condoning it I would just say that these kids are taking what they can from society with the means available to them, just like the millionaire who doesn't pay his taxes, the MP who fiddles his expenses or the banker who pockets his massive bonuses while plunging the nation into financial meltdown. It's the product of a society that celebrates selfishness and materialism above all else.

I think using their background and environment as an excuse for this is stupid, they are all individual people capable of making their own decisions in life; but most of them feel they have been shafted by the government and complain about it when they're sitting on their arses all day without even trying to find work, if they were really motivated they could find work, even if it isn't a great job they'd still find somewhere. Or they could enrol in open university courses, or apply for apprenticeships, but they'd rather fall back on the 'social failings' they've had to endure and then use it as an excuse to loot and riot. Too much complaining i think, what ever happened to the strong, silent type like gary cooper!

Its not the same thing at all. Looting is a criminal act, vandalism is a criminal act. Arson is a criminal act. All against private corporations, independent traders and individuals.

The bankers and the tax dodgers are certainly immoral with their practices. But are not breaking the law. The MPs mostly the same.

This is not some little poor boy sob story, its criminal activity.

Ban the sale or possession of piano wire and take down all of the lamp posts in central London for their own protection. Alternatively flee the country. As it is they are driven around in armoured limousines. I'm being partly serious...

What should the government do? I don't know. If I had the answers to that then I would be fit to run the country. Look, they are useless cunts - it's not what they should do, it is what they will do. If you want a clue then look around the world or to history to see what is likely. Greece in the last year for example. Those in power do not give it up lightly and will increase the use of force (which is what they are good at) against the violence. I would expect that they will use the opportunity to introduce more draconian legislation. Expect curfews? If the violence continues past an increasingly armed police force with water cannons and tear gas they might get the armed forces out, although they have shot themselves in the foot (no pun intended) with that one as they have trimmed them down to paper thin. If they do, would a British soldier be prepared to shoot a civilian on the streets of England? And if they did then all hell really would break loose.

Other 'emergency' control measures might be aimed at communications and perhaps restrictions on social networking sites, email and mobile phones. Who knows?


Personally I am going to sit tight, stay out of the way of any potential trouble and be prepared to defend your family and property if it comes to it. If you had the foresight to get a shotgun then keep it handy. I would also suggest to start stocking up on non-perishable foodstuffs and energy. If the markets and the Euro/dollar do go into meltdown in the next couple of weeks then what is happening at the moment will just be a sideshow.


Propogation and acceptance of the non-aggression principle and peaceful parenting.

The difference being that:
The millionaire uses legal tax avoidance loopholes.
The banker receives bonuses legally
The MP's receive their expenses...oh wait....

Seriously though, the first two are within the law and while you may or may not have an opinion one way or the other on them morally, looting and rioting is just plain criminality.

Post of the thread. What is happening on the streets now is a mirror of the ruling classes. Violence and theft breeds violence and theft.

Side point, but it was claimed on the radio last night that as far as the Met knew the only force trained to use water canons were in Ulster. Which was a surprise to me.

Either way I'm pretty sure the Juniper shop at the end of our road is low down on the 'places to nick things from' list if it ever kicked off in Swindon.

Were these riots organised?

http://yfrog.com/z/h07mxcyzj (http://yfrog.com/z/h07mxcyzj)

I'd be amazed if a few criminal gangs didn't rub their hands with glee and orchestrate a few opportunities rush down to the local Dixons/PC World.

What are you talking about, just cos you don't earn as much money as some other cunt who's probably earned it anyway, that's no justification for being a thieving, robbing, violent pikey scumbag marauding the streets smashing and burning whatever you like?

now this is the post of the thread haha

Thanks for your views, genuinely interested to see what you have to say.

I'm not really sure principles are going to solve the problem, but I admit I (deliberately) asked a pretty huge question. It seems a bit idealistic/utopian to say what we need is for a common acceptance of moral values... Yes these people who are rioting are marginalised/ignored/'formed' by social and political processes which leave them in situations with few prospects... but at the same time these people are still relatively wealthy in relation to the majority world. It doesn't matter how well off our country becomes, the fact that some are better off will always cause frictions and resentment amongst those who feel they deserve more - even (or especially) when they don't!

I've gone down a bit of a random unstructured train of thought there, but basically my point is that no matter what we do I can't see a time where moral values (as characterised by non-agression) will ever be upheld across society - people are by default too proud, envious and selfish

I agree with DMR. It had to happen sooner or later.

I stand by what I said. The law is not my only guide when making my own judgement on what is right or wrong. The looters are cunts, but no more or less so than the others mentioned just because their actions fall on the wrong side of the law.

I judge the arsonists more harshly because of their apparent lack of concern for human life.

Blimey,..rioting... its spreading across the animal kindom

[url width=98 height=98]http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29301_442976909814_310716489814_5773694_3162803_s.jpg[/url]

We'll have to disagree then.

That is the best thing I have ever seen

Just heard from a Police sauce that they have intelligence that it is going to kick off in Swindon Town centre this afternoon/evening.

Stay away peeps.

This thread is the funniest I've read for a long time.

What a bunch of moralising, self righteous cunts some of you are.

Three people arrested on suspicion of attempted murder after a policeman was injured by a car last night. Possibly the lowest yet.

Name names then I can't be fucked to read it

completely disagree. There aint nothing worth stealing around there. I didn't say it would happen in Penhill either.

The initial protest was pointless anyway - a gun toting criminal getting shot by the five-0 isn't an injustice or legitimate cause for complaint.

Take a wild guess, it's the usual suspects.

That's a helpful aid to discussion, Hertha.

Are morals not the cause and effect of what is happening?

The five-o? You're so street!

Nope. And what exactly has discussion done to rectify anything?

Fuck all.

Lack of them perhaps.

I agree. It could be worthy of protesting, if for example said gun turned out to be a banana in a Charles de Menezes style bungle. However AFAIK the enquiry hadn't even reached any sort of conclusion before the protests started.

Mind you, I strongly believe being shot is an occupational hazard of being a drug dealer.

Morals?

Haven't seen any of those during these events.

I defy anyone over 25 to read that without the TV theme going round their heads.

That's what gets me, not sure shooting some crack dealer should be seen as such a bad thing.

I think it was by his family, understandably so. But by the wider community ??? If it happened here I'd think "oh well, one less vermin".

Browsing the last three pages since I've last been on here and assuming most disagree with me. Just to explain my point, no I don't think the kids give a shit about the government, fuck knows if they even voted. This riot isn't opposing Cameron and the government. I just believe in social conditioning if you will, who can honestly say that if they were raised in the exact same circumstances as these were they would not do the same? Of course not all of us will. Some people  who live in the affected (effected?) areas won't be rioting, but just to say that these kids are twats and are looting cause they're sill little cunts is idiotic. Again in my opinion.

Another thing that makes me laugh, when Amy Winehouse died so many would show compassion and rant that addiction is a disease and impossible to overcome (which i agree with) but surely these people, even the one who got shot are doing so because the community they are in. If you feel sympathy for a millionaire drugo surely kids who are born into nothing deserve some consideration. They are 100% in the wrong and I hope they all get brought to justice, but some may argue that what happened to Amy was her justice.

You're missing the point. Wino didnt do anyone any harm but herself.

I heard she was killed by dyslexic Muslim terrorists who we after an Army Warehouse.

Very good point and yes I rather stupidly over look that point. And again these kids are acting like twats, BUT be honest do you think that if you were born in an terrible area and raised in a poor family, do you think that you would be the person you are today. Not sayin you'd be a looter or rioter but you defiantly wouldn't be the person you are now. For example you'd be left supporting Tottenham and not the mighty town :(.

I feel i need to make this point a million times though, I will not be hugging a hoody. I've been a victim of them before and it was fucking horrible. But the kdis who are doing this and the kids who are attacking me weren't lucky enough to be brought up like me.

Damn you Batch !!

That made me chuckle. And it's spelt dyslxc

like i said i don't think you can blame their social upbringing for what they're doing, most of them are adults and therefore mature enough to make decisions for themselves rather than just joining in this mob mentality and seeing it as an opportunity to get free stuff. The opportunities are there for them, but most choose not to take advantage of these opportunities and would rather spend their days doing nothing or looking for an easy way to make money.

Surely the opportunities they were denied as children though shaped them into the people they are now. But I wont say anymore, the tide is against me and I don't wanna be a self righteous knob who forces my views on other. Everyone's entitled to their view and what not   

This is nothing to do with "the state of the country", the "lack of jobs" or anything of the sort.

This is only down to hundreds of low-life, jobless, benefit-scrounging chavs and sub-human scumbags who enjoy causing trouble, get a buzz from kicking off and take pleasure from destroying stuff that isn't theirs. Any excuse to cause a ruckus and these bastards don't need asking twice.

The shit I keep hearing about "This is a result of the socio-economic crisis" is a crock of pathetic, lefty bullshit dreamed up by limp, liberal panderers who refuse to accept that to these excuses-for-human-beings, the punishment for causing this or any kind of trouble is nothing compared to the crime commited.


Punish these idiots properly and this wouldn't be happening. The fear of proper repercussions before they even start would prevent this from even occurring in the first place.

Come down on them like a tonne of bricks, and let's see how many looters are out there.

The fact that this has spread in the way it has just proves that it has literally NO agenda. The twats in Manchester, Liverpool and so on are simply of the mindset of "Well if the boys in London are doing it, let's do it too!".



Get out the water cannons, load up the rubber bullets (even that isn't far enough IMO) and get the fuckers off our streets.

We need to get serious and quickly - will it happen? Will it fuck.

Well said.

Surely a troll?

So you don't believe these people are formed by social factors - so you are purposing a looting gene? Interesting.

As for harsh punishments, America has a very brutal criminal system and yet % wise one of the worst crime rates in the world. Interesting. I may be a lefty limp wristed twat (or how ever you sum it up) but at least my knuckles dont drag on the floor. Sorry most people who have different opinions to me I'm quite polite to as there views are normally argued quite well. You just seem stupid.  But you are right water cannons and some form of force need to be used to stop them.

I couldn't give a fuck about the cause of it for now, people just need to be stopped. Policeman with riot shields and batons are not going to stand a chance against a group of angry people lobbing stuff at them and setting fire to whatever they please.

Yea that is a brilliant point. I feel I've come across as preachy but some views I just straight up disagree with. 10,000 more police have been sent to London though, to put that in perspective only 6000 were there last night. I think the crack down begins now 

Starting to agree with this now - the first priority now needs to be to stop the activity. Only then can we worry about what caused it and try to address the deeper issues.

On that note, it was interesting to see the American-style "Jankel" armoured vehicles used in London for the first time last night. I expect we'll see much more of this if the trouble continues to the same extent tonight.

Agreed

Gaddafi must be feeling a bit smug right now.

Boris' first(?) written response...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-mayor/article-23976762-boris-johnson-london-can---and-will---come-back-from-all-this.do

Cheers R4E. You are always worth discussing things with.


Oh it definitely won't be in my lifetime, perhaps in my children's. It is a multi-generational thing. It will certainly take a long time for attitudes to change, but they most certainly will. We cannot continue as a race to keep perpetuating violence and force, killing millions of people in pointless wars, the legalised theft of income and the scott-free immoral actions of the elites.

If you had forecast the end of slavery in the 18th century people would think you were crazy and that it would never happen. Likewise if you had proposed the emancipation of women then you would have had a similar reaction. Society can change and that has been proven. It takes about 100 years.


You really think so? I disagree. The majority of people are not. I'm sure you aren't. I am not. How many people donated to Charlie Austin's child's charity? Sure, there is a criminal class who act badly but that is down to shit upbringing caused by...




...nail hit on the head. Morals or ethics if you will are the key. When they have been perverted in the population by the powers that be then it is time to address the root of the problem.


Where else do you get your morals from apart from your parents and upbringing? Do you suddenly get wisdom when you become an adult?


Exactly. And you are not a self righteous knob, you are entitled to your opinion the same as everybody else. If they don't like it or disagree that is their option.

I'm not sure how much difference the extra police will make. The constant news coverage and the impression that the rioters had a free run at it last night will encourage even more on to the streets tonight, both in London and other places around the country (I really hope I'm wrong with this.).

What we really need is some good heavy rain.

The worst part is the rumours this is happening in Swindon right now, when it clearly fucking isn't.

So true.  None forecast, sadly, until Thursday morning.

At least one death now from the riots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14462693 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14462693)

Hopefully the authorities can find a way to put a stop to it soon.

So I have a different opinion to you, that makes me a Troll does it? You're the stupid cunt who can't see that a lefty, limp wristed approach hasn't worked that well so far!!

Anyway,The Daily Mash sums it up pretty well...

Riots caused by society or lazy, thieving pricks, say experts
09-08-11
THE London riots are the inevitable consequence of a society that includes some aholes who like to steal things instead of working, experts claimed last night.

Sociologists said the devastation across the capital was the direct result of either social exclusion and government cutbacks or some young, inner-city pricks finding a flimsy excuse to set fire to Carpetright.

As the city's often neglected underclass of dicks, tts and fkers, let out a desperate cry of opportunist theft, Waterstones in Clapham was only spared after staff hurriedly removed the Stars of the Jeremy Kyle Show Pop-Up Book from the window.

Dr Tom Logan said: "I'm a sociologist, which means three things - I have an appalling education, I have very little money and most of the time I am unbelievably bored.

"And yet I have only a fairly small inclination to set fire to some shops while refreshing my tracksuit collection.

"You see, some people are just dicks, but sometimes even dicks like an excuse."

Rioter Martin Bishop said: "I'm not entirely sure who is to blame for me wanting to steal things and then set fire to the building where those things used to be.

"But it is nice to have the flimsy excuse. It makes me feel more mature."

Meanwhile, as former England cricket captain Alec Stewart began assembling a posse of vigilante test heroes, seismologists reported a sudden lurch to the right as people who own tagines found themselves calling for the immediate deployment of the Parachute Regiment and a couple of RAF Tornadoes.

Julian Cook, a planning consultant from Finsbury Park, said: "As long as it doesn't get too 'Bloody Sunday' I think it could teach them a valuable lesson about property rights and the rule of law."

But Dr Logan stressed that long after the fires had been extinguished debate would continue to rage over what turned these dicks into the fkers they are.

He added: "I suspect it'll be easier if we all just agree to blame Carpetright."

Apologist.

You're simply making excuses for these people. People have the ability make their own choices. They choose to become "gangsters" and drug dealers and theiving little cunts. Nobody forces them. They are also responsible for their own actions and should be able to face the consequences.

All this bollocks about the poor little cherubs actually being victims, is starting to grate a little now.

A load of yoofs tried starting it in Manchester Road but the old bill nipped it in the bud.  The police are still saying that they have intelligence to suggest that people are going to try later today.

So there clearly is something in the offing.  Or is the policeman lying?  Maybe that is the problem.

 ::)

Pretty sure bout 90% of the forum disagree with me, yes I happily engage in debates and discussions on opposing views. That's just healthy. But people like you (who i had guessed was a Daily Mail reader) are either trolling or stupid surely. I'll make this point for the millionth time. We are all victims of circumstance, I was lucky enough to be born in to a nice family in a good area. I have no desire to riot. If i was born in a rough area of North London I clearly wouldn't be the same as I am now. I may not be a rioter or looter but I wouldn't be me. If you get shit on all your like you will seize an opportunity to retaliate.

However, I was a cunt in my post, I disagree with you. In fact my views are most likely a polar opposite of yours. But I was just pissed of and had a bit of an unfair attack.

As it's been mentioned before though the cause doesn't really matter right now. That can be handled after. Right now it just need to be stopped.I honestly think that the extra 10,000 will help a huge amount.  

Again not victims, and yes they should be fucking convicted for what they have done (I don't mind the idea of those who are caught and prosecuted should be forced to spend 8 hours a day cleaning and fixing the damage they have caused as prison would just cost more in tax). But no child is born thinking yeeeea I wanna be a gangster and go to prison that'll be awesome, every child grows up wanting to play for town. However due to out circumstances and culture we are raised in and how we are treated by society we develop into adults. Yes adults can think for them selves but unwiring 18years of socialisation is no easy task. 

Or take a look at recent times in Syria, Egypt, Libya etc.

The USA will be next.

So you blame the environments that these people are bought up in being cause of these lawlessness?

How so many people from similar, of not worse environments have gone on to "better" themselves, to get out of the whole "ghetto" mindset and gone on to have productive, fulfilling and positive lives?

This whole environment arguement is a red herring.

These girls sound well 'ard

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

I don't know the stats to be honest. I'm not being sarcastic though or being a cunt but what do you think caused them to act like this then? And don't just say they're twats who don't care about the law but why they are these twats. Again not being sarcastic just interested.

Any truth in the rumour about a police presence on commercial road?

How much do you wanna bet the wine they were drinking was Lambrini

I heard that but through texts and facebook so not to worried just yet.

I disagree. But at the same time, I'd say it's far from the full picture. Environmental influences (or social externalities as academics would have it) are influential in attitudes towards school, other humans, crime and numerous other things.

BUT, Ironside is right in saying we shouldn't adopt the relativist approach that the Western left-wing has come to love. Just because these people's upbringings and circumstances have influenced them in coming to this behaviour, it does not excuse it. Strong action needs to be taken in the coming days and weeks.

However, in the long run there does need to be a focus on the social externalities which has been lacking for decades, and which many are citing as an underlying catalyst for what is happening. I guess this is Talk Talk's point to some extent, although he and I may disagree on the actions needed.

I think that sums it up perfectly.

Yea that's pretty much it. But I have said a few times that they are wrong and should still be punished (the idea of people being forced to do community service and not jail as it would save on taxes.)

But that you for pretty much summing up about 4 hours of me ranting in one post. 

If it is true then I think that would be a seriously bad move. That would just inflame any potential situation and present a gift of a target for anybody wanting to start something.

Far better to stay away until necessary and get stuck in if required.

On the adver website now.  Also had a text off a mate saying the town centre is being evacuated??

Ah. Fuck. Any one know how many numbers there are police and rioters (cunts) wise?

Abdication of responsibility by parents is solely to blame for this.... Most normal people would be worried sick if their 7 year was out when riots were taken place but for some reason these parents don't seem to give a fuck.  Society is fucked when all people do is blame the government for social failings... social failings come as a result of society thinking somebody else should wipe their arse for them and provide them with handouts for no return.

If people under 21 want to claim benefits then reintroduce national service and get them to put something back into society... I predicted 20 years ago that the UK would fall into an anarchic state as I could see it coming when I left the Police and watching the Police pussyfoot around over the last 3 days has just reinforced that view.

Sadly there are more controls over owning a dog than there are over bringing a child into this world and watching the scum on the box last night was like a  watching the trailer for the new planet of the Apes movie... and before you start that isn't meant in anyway racist - it is just a reference to the fact that there are hundreds of snarling primeval kids running around completely out of control.

No idea mate, but on the adver site the article above talk about how the Wilts police are off to help out in London!  Hope they havent left yet.

Think they have. My brother saw a convoy of riot vans on there way down the M4 this morning. Sayin that I find it hard to believe they'd leave us to exposed.

I've been told by my boss to keep my eyes open, groups of people by the bulldog, commercial road and faringdon road park. Expecting trouble. What's the fucking point. Some lads cycled past me 45 mins ago with hoodies and scarves on. Seriously, its Swindon. It's not a fucking scrotty borough of London, we're not deprived. Most of the kids from penhill/pinehurst/parks/walcott who think they're big men would likely shit their pants in London. I fucking hate this idolization of the ghetto culture.

Scaremongering

They will be arrested in no time in Swindon, nowhere near as much area to roam like in London.

Similarly in places like Bristol.

It's fucking retarded mate. Some skinny little cunt thinking he's a big man when he's in a group of 40. I have no idea what the point is in starting up an isolated riot without any catalyst.

Who set up the system of benefits and arse wiping Paul? Who else is to blame?


This is not anarchy, we have a government. The police have become straightjacketed with political correctness and bureaucracy. Along with their increasingly authoritarian attitude and corruption at the higher levels, the public have lost respect for them.

good point, unless they go cause mayhem over in a near by village with large green fields

Worryingly similar characteristics to that of extremist terrorism.

Yob culture creating an ideology of them v the state, and 'never to give up', and if they see a 'fed' to attack.

How depressing.

I hope they don't set fire to cows and loot the milk.

I was at work last night and am tonight.
The teletext says there was violence in oxford. Someone tried to petrol bomb mcdonalds but it was out when we got there, and a car was torched and theyve been nicked already. No violence. Talk about scaremongering people.

On another i heard PDC was dressing up as batman tonight and is dishing out some vigilante violence..

Cows are the most flammable animal know to man. Fact.
The mob mentality is a very scary thing though, some one else i know pointed out they were like terrorist. At least terrorists believe they're fighting for something in their fucked up little heads. This is just mob mentality fighting for no reason.

It's true I don't think anything near as big is gunna happen here.

Paul Bodin is going out as Robin

Apologies if this has been posted before. But this video is horrible.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065

Don't think it has been posted but it is horrible. They guy looks like 12 and there's a fair bit of blood. Worst bit is the first guy who looks like he's helping. Hopefully that footage will be able to get them all prosecuted

Yeh exactly he helps him stand up then mugs him, what a cunt.

Check this video out aswell, what fucking slags-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424



‎'Free wine'. Er, no, you stole it you fucking pricks.

Yea some one put that clip up earlier. It is fucking mental when they try and justify it by blaming the government and say "yea it's the conservatives, or who ever". If you don't know shut the fuck up. How can you enjoy that

Work at zurich, just been told to go home. True story

What did Aver say? Their Commodore Amiga seems to be throwing a Guru Meditation at the moment.

they might have sacked you ;D

Ur not the only one!!

Yea they don't have a clue. The fact they say it's fun aswell is fucked up.

i dont have facebook, but have been sat next to my mrs while she was on the laptop, i have never read so much fucking rubish that people are spouting on there :hmmm:

I text my boss earlier to see if anything was happening,

She told me that the police came round this morning and told her that they thought it would all kick off at midday.

Seems if anything had actually happened we would have heard?

Is Primark on fire?

To be fair, last time I was in Swindon town centre, it looked there had been a riot. I've been assured that it's actually supposed to look that way....

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/riots-caused-by-society-or-lazy%2c-thieving-pricks%2c-say-experts-201108094174/ (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/riots-caused-by-society-or-lazy%2c-thieving-pricks%2c-say-experts-201108094174/)

This just about sums it up for me.

Yep.  It's all an elaborate ruse to get the much talked about (but little acted on) regeneration of central Swindon off the drawing board.

The rioters & looters are scum. Has nothing to do with politics & all to do with greed.
Had an e-mail from Zurich today top say they are closing their Swindon office today in case it kicks off in Swindon. I'd have thought that the Chav's in Swindon were slightly better than Chav's in London & Bristol etc

My best mate's brothers girlfriend's mum just said that New Look's window has been smashed in town..

I think we can all agree that its a rock solid source...

Got told to leave the office because there were youths outside. Left the office, there were two very bored looking teenagers, who couldn't have been more than 13 or 14. No hoods, no hats. Bit of an over-reaction I think.

Still, got me out of work an hour and a half early!

Should've sparked them out

TEF Vigilante group anyone?

Apparently the Millwall lot and Crispys crew are taking on the rioters.

Cant imagine it mind

I'm in. First one to knock some chav cunt's teeth out win's a tenner?

Just walked through swindon town centre - from train station to bottom of eastcott hill - and it couldn't seem like a more normal tuesday afternoon! Despite that, my employers closed at 3pm on police advice! Seems like scare-mongering and not alot more in Swindon anyway...

I don't reckon there'll be much more trouble tonight. I think with that amount of OB on the streets in London, the scum will stay in doors and just enjoy their new toys.

like some sort of riot boxing day?!

Sounds good. Who's joining us?

are we allowed weapons? and can we make some sort of tef uniform? if so, i'm in

What's O'Brien doing in Tottenham. He'll get injured

[url width=600 height=369]http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/tanswell2010/21f567f8.jpg[/url]

Fattys looting poundland

Haha, I never thought of it in those terms but yeah that's the one...

Like some black shirts? :wink:

How small is that womans face on the right!!

I like the lady on the far right who seems to have literally only taken a bottle of Tango. Considerate looter leaving some for everyone else.

Totally up for that.


So does anyone know if anything has actually happened here yet?

I would assume not..

Not wishing to make light of the events... but Lord Fauntleroy on the right there cracks me up. What is he doing there?!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/368025733.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312905513&Signature=FqcUEATAWxQfMcXMv9R%2BtKgNhHg%3D

On closer inspetion shes nicked the stores supply of haribo

Ha looks like the posh toff that was in Big Brother.

And the guy making sure his jeans look ok. Wouldn't wanna waste money

What's he going to do if they don't fit, take them back for a refund?

Someone posted in this thread last night saying that picky pikeys were trying on trainers in JD before looting them.

soapy tit wank very good point. God I'd love to see how that conversation would go

Hulk Hogan is coming over and unleashing Hulkamania all over these rioters

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9185441.Police_presence_in_town_centre/?ref=twtrec

He's teamed up with Dog.....THE BOUNTY HUNTER

Apocalyptic scenes.

Imagine what such a good show that would be, and whack in Chuck Norris, Crocodile Dundee and Eddie the Eagle too and that would be epic

Just about to go into Town now to pick up my daughter.

fuck any hoodlums up whilst you're there

That would be a hugely impressive team. You have to question the existence of Norris in times like these. So much evil in the world which he could stop in a heart beat and he just sits back and ignores us. Where's your Chuck Norris now?  

Only caught the first few minutes of the interview on 5live but just that was awesome enough. Talking about coming over and body slamming the Looters!!  :D

...I've found the interview. What the genuine fuck?

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/hulk-hogan-on-the-london-riots-rethink-brother-197243-Aug2011/

He can talk the talk... but he now needs to walk the walk and keep a promise  ;D

If it looks anything like this, count me in!! :-)

[url width=468 height=703]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/15/article-1193111-05576359000005DC-305_468x703.jpg[/url]


....here fishy fishy fishy!  ;-)

Reconnaisance mission. Like it.

when did the word criminality replace the phrase criminal acts? it sounds weird

As quiet as anything. There are a few chavs trying and failing miserably to look hard but they do add a humour to the situation.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bs_tab

Look at the Percentages!

So an immigrant comes over here with fuck all,works his bollox off with his family to make a living and so sad lowlife prick in designer gear and with mobile phones decide to steal loot and completly ruin this persons life for ever.
Fact is looters should be shot....about time this country showed some balls.

Gotta use their new laptops for something...

during last nights riots 2 paddys broke into ladbrokes and lost £50

I'm with you on this one Leefer, if some hoodie chav scum thinks it's ok to loot, riot and cause general mayhem, the least the OB should do is baton charge the cunts on horseback followed by a round or two of plastic bullets and tear gas. Take a few of them out and their pikey fucking mates might just get the mesage.

Spot on. The wet lefty's dont realise that rampant immigration hurts the lowest social bands of the incumbent society most.

I am really suprised some of the big stores havn't hired security,a dozen burly fuckers standing proud outside would put most of these vermin off...mostly cowards who run amok once the windows or doors are open.
In Leicester last night all the big Asian grocery stores were being guarded,not saying it would stop all attacks but would deter a lot in my view.

It's not just the immigrant who suffers in in his poxy little shop though is it? Take Croydon and the furniture store that had been in the family for 5 generations...destroyed. Not to mention all the law abiding non-immigrants who live in the "newly, culturally enriched" broughs that suffer.  
And by the way, a majority of those rioting in London and other major urban areas are very likely the offspring of immigrants, as evidenced by the locations in which the riots are taking place and the photo's and film all over the media.

So much for the ideaology of multiculturalism and the whole socialist thought process that promoted it, eh?

So are we now blaming this on immigration Ironside?

The general point i was trying to make is that the excuse is....we are poor,we have no money,blah blah blah.

So were the people who run a lot of those shops but they got off there big fat asses and work 80/90 hours a week to earn a living...

Not at all.

Just like earlier in the thread "environment" was thrown up as THE cause by some posters. I can't help thinking that it has had an influence on the situation though.

A fair point but why single out a johnny as the victims when they have been victims alongside everyone else gets off their arse and works for a living?

The fact is that this all stemmed from the shooting by police of a criminal scumbag, who was an immigrant/offspring of an immigrant and led to lots off immigrants/offspring of immigrants behaving like total and utter cunts. It's fair to say that I've had a few aperatifs and I'm not blaming immigration or immigrants as the cause of the whole thing but as stated in reply to R4E's question, if you think it hasn't had an influence on the whole situation then you are wrong.

Edit: Just like the environment arguement put forward earlier in the thread.

You are a dick.

You are a cunt.

Expalin please?

You're obviously a racist/xenophobe and you aren't very good at covering it up.

Disagree with most on here but just heard (a rumour) that Enfield residents have gathered and are marching against the rioters, with police escorts. This is kind of heart warming but could be disastrous (if true).

Also heard (a rumour) that the Muslim community stood and denied entry to the scrotes that wanted to riot in Aston.

Similar story last night with the Turks and some part of London.

Good on 'em.

See, this is what I don't understand. I'm not a racist but you'd have to be fucking blind not to see that the majority of those rioting are black. Does that make me a racist?

26 pages of utter bollocks.

It's just the way he speaks about it all. You can tell.

Yea Turks and Kurds I heard last night were fending their territory. Nice to see communities standing their ground.

I'd agree with that. Nothing to do with immigration in my mind. I'd argue it has more to do with class. This means that i'm not a racist just a snob

I can understand people's frustration though. As soon as race is mentioned as a factor, accusations of racism aren't far behind.

The fact is that most of the rioters are black. The violence is being caused predominantly by blacks as is the damage.

More to do with race than class. And anyone who can't see that is a major factor has their head in the sand.

I'd agree that a lot of the people probably are black or other ethnicities but there are lots of white ones to. But again lots of working class people are minorities. I suppose its a whole chicken and egg thing, each to their own to decide what came first

So what is it about their race that makes them more loot loving? Again chicken and egg. I know where i stand on the matter

Having seen the images race is majorly involved, but its the class as well. Which one of the rioters said on the news "middle classes wont understand our plight" so its a mixing pot of both

Surely a Joke

http://twitpic.com/63k6tg

I'd agree with that, but my point is the middle class black and asian people aren't rioting. IF race was involved surely they'd be down smashing some windows.

Don't know how i feel about that.

MIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that is an annoying chant

Im not saying its one or the other as that is clearly a nonsense. It just happens that race is clear to see but its not a race issue at all. Its mostly socio economic and idiots wanting a laugh

I'm not saying black people are genetically predisposed to looting and rioting, all I'm saying is there seems to be a very large number of them involved.

This is why a debate like this is pointless. There are loads of factors involved: race; class; society in general; the list goes on and on.

But at the end of the day, what they are doing is wrong. And they know it is. The problem is they don't give a fuck.

soapy tit wank yea i know sorry i was trying to agree with you there. You're right

Yea I know it's true. Right now the who what where aren't importnat I suppose just needs to be stopped. Said it earlier but i think the worst is over now (i hope) the number of police down there has more than doubled. But i do enjoy debating these kind of issues it's normally quite interesting but i do get carried away so by bad for that.

A mate in north London just told me "the spurs firm are walking up towards the town centre"  also against the looting apparently http://lockerz.com/s/128116001

There's something terribly ironic in Football Hooligans against mindless violence. Difficult to condemn them all the same.

soapy tit wank very true. Again though not sure if this is good or bad but kind of feels like fuel on the fire. Violence breeds violence etc

I didn't think there was a high proportion of black people involved, given that I presume more of the population in those areas is black. If anything those involved seem pretty representative of the make up of the local populations.

The one thing that they do all have in common is that they are lazy low life scum who blame society for their problems rather than accept the fact they they are the problem. I get sick of hearing all the do gooders saying things like the Police don't work with the community enough and similar shit that I and most other people have never had either.

Fully agree on both counts.

Absolutely right - I've stood in local elections, general elections and knocked on 1000s of doors in years of political campaigning right across the country and the only subject that ever gets raised on the doorstep is immigration. Not MP's expenses, not the economy, not other worries - always immigration. In northern towns and cities particularly immigration concerns are depressingly relentless.

And it's not racism that fuels this but genuine concerns regarding the impact on schools (3 teacher translators in a classroom for example), housing and benefits. Labour during their last term in office dumped on their working class voters - many a plaster, plumber, electrician was put of business because they simply couldn't compete with immigrants who significantly undercut them - and could afford to. The comments by Gillian Duffy (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8649476.stm) came as no surprise to anyone who took part in the 2010 election

When I helped leaflet in Barnsley in the last by-election our women helpers were shown a map of which areas to avoid because they would get physically attacked for not wearing a burkha.

Many a northern town is a tinderbox waiting to go up, I'm surprised it hasn't before.

Mark Duggans American cousin has appealed for calm in London.

Hacksaw Jim went on to say "hey ohh" before swinging his two by four at nearby reporters.

should that be, 4 b 2 :hmmm:

Anybody else see the scumbag just on Sky News?

Yes. Very depressing

Yep - sat here getting angrier by the minute.

I missed it... What happened?

Some little scrote wearing a mask and sunglasses trying to explain why he was looting. Started off basically saying "to piss the police off" then pretty much admitted he was just doing it for the money.

what was said, my mrs got east/bellenders on ::)

That little scrot was all talk I reckon, just out to get pissed. 'I ain't law abiding mate' yeah right.

And what's going on with their accents?  Knobjockeys

I think thats just the north tbf

That would be a northern blackmans accent, or in the case if he was white (I saw the interview, wasn't paying enough attention to see a skin colour) a wanabee northern blackman.

Got Sky channel 847 on. Just some bloke filming live in Brum, just saw someone getting arrested 5 minutes ago and live police chase before that.

Yeah, I saw the horrible little cunt. I would fucking love 5 minutes on my own with him.

It was more like a northern gangsta innit ayeeeeee

I get ya blud

This little fucker.

http://lockerz.com/s/128137610

jeez looks like hes still waiting for his balls to drop, what a pleb

Anybody seen nick griffins twitter?

This is going to do wonders for that cuntslop

If you're going to torch a shop, don't do it in full view of a news camera.

http://www.channel4.com/news/riots-spread-to-manchester-midlands

Yeah what a surprise that that parasite is leeching off of this. The total cunt.

Yea I saw that. He said " Quite funny to watch TV desperately trying to avoid ethnic dimensions in this." But has then avoided Dara O'Brain saying "Something for @nickgriffinmep to explain away RT @KetchupRob: From the gang at miss Selfridges Manchester. http://yfrog.com/kkub1vlj"

Kind of ironic

Some juvenile riot humour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfnPMey9IVI

Shoot the fuckers

I must admit there probably are racial distinctions to be made as we look on at the riots (the most obvious distinction is that there are more men than women looters?)

However wtf has most of this post got to do with Tottenham?

Call me a liberal but I would like racial groups to converge in opportunity and achievement.  I'm sick of Chinese and Indians and White Irish out performing White Brits at 16 and if I was black or Pakistani I'd be sick of being outperformed even by white brits.

If women without burkhas being at risk in certain areas is a problem then what is the problem with having translators in classes?  This will be good for the future unless you want to keep certain groups from achieving and integrating.

Then the East European plumbers.  Yeah, ain't the EU shit.  Why couldn't we have just kept jobs for the likes of Paul fucking Hart and Graham Paedo Rix instead of going for some unproven Italian.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm wary of immigrants but I support our immigrants, whether at STFC or in England.

I'd draw the line at Eric though.

watching news night, a right tool on there

http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW

Michael Gove?

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

Any news on anything happening in Swindon?

Yes, Starbucks put its  outside chair inside the shop. And Zurich staff went home early because they couldn't sit outside Starbucks.

Crazy days.

I saw a group of immigrants walking through Sainsbury's car park earlier. Turns out they were all walking home together after finishing work nearby.

Beautiful. Communities taking over where the police fail. There is hope after all.

Wankers - taking our fucking jobs. how dare they work and pay taxes. White riot, i wanna riot, white riot a riot of my own.

Big (vigilante) Society. Its Government endorsed.

Best post in this thread today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bdY6EzvrnA

Same chap is currently live on C847 on Sky

Ha! Excellent.

Seriously though, those 'normal' members of society stood outside warding off the arseholes must be thinking to themselves "why the hell do I pay for the police and politicians when we have to do this ourselves?" And it could be one of those realisation moments. "I don't have to, we can do this on our own. Get rid of the fuckers."

You can round up and arrest as manty of these fuckers as you want but not many are going to get done and even less will serve time. The top  ine numbers sound pretty impressive but the bottom line certainly won't be.

Very true. They will just get a tap on the bottom and a suspended sentence, along with a complete waste of taxpayers money having sessions with some idiot community outreach worker.

Compare and contrast that to a smack around the head with a baseball bat from one of their neighbours defending a local shop.

9 arrested in Gloucester last night after an angry mob hit the town

Any more details? Where was it?

Don't worry it was only the Kaiser Chiefs and friends...

They read the papers every day. They like who they like, hate who they hate and they're also easily swayed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-14470616

Coming back home to this mess tomorrow. Wondered whether my house and car were still intact!

My views on this subject are well known by many of the long time posters on this forum and I have no fear of being labelled a racist/xenephobe/nazi blah blah blah.

Along with other factors, immigration has had an influence on the recent events. Think about it.

I heard that the police have been told to use water cannons mixed with Persil. It stops the coloureds running.

I'll get me coat............

My info is that the Swindon council have been actively encouraging local youths to burn down the old college in the town centre to save em time and money.

What are peoples opinions on the whole shooting incident> - The one that sparked the protest BEFORE the riots started rather than the alledged one from last night.

Difficult to say without knowing all of the facts, but if you are carrying a gun and draw it, getting shot by an armed police officer shouldn't really come as much of a shock.

If it turns out he was trying to surrender the weapon, I might feel slightly differently.

my opinion is if you go around carrying a gun then if the police think you may use it tough shit if you get shot.

clearly use of lethal force needs to be cross checked by enquiry. you can't have police shooting people and hiding behind it. 

Agreed - especially if you are drug dealing gun carrying scum.

I think there must be something to it, it's not like all our police are armed so there may have been some pretty exceptional circumstances for this to have happened. I guess we'll find out in time.

I only ask because there's some dude on my facebook getting all righteous about how an innocent unarmed man has been killed which has caused all this...

If any person has a gun about them then if approached by the police they can be expected to be shot at.
The police cannot win as if he had started blazing away they would have got a lot of stick...the lads poses on facebook wouldn't have helped his cause either if he was being investigated for a crime.

I do believe though that the police showed a real lack of compasion and understanding of anger when the unarmed De Menzies was killed a few years back,he had no gun about him and the attitude was.....well we thought he was a terrorist,we got it wrong........was there ever an apology to the family?

It's not a difficult one for me,If you carry gun around the streets then you have to expect the consequences.

Things should be fine now, Cameron has said he's taking matters into his own hands

[url width=427 height=640]http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=u9moe.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640[/url]

Nice profiling there. I might do some of my own, you're a daily express/daily mail/sun reading, EDL/BNP sympathising racist scumbag?

BBC reporter at Highbury Magistrates Court John Brain tells BBC 5 live the first person who appeared in the dock this morning was a 31-year-old teacher called Alexis Bailey. She pleaded guilty to being part of the looting of the Richer Sounds store in Croydon.

 :D Apparently this morning he said “We will do whatever is necessary. Nothing is off the table.” Does that include tactical nukes?

rubber tactical nukes

Excellent job - well done. I am really proud of you.   :clap:

Lets look at the evidence :

Drug Dealer - Check
Gun Carrier - Check
Scum - as Søren Kierkegaard once said "if you label me you negate me" - so on the above evidence I'd say this was within acceptable tolerance limits.

No no, they're too dangerous, been replaced by plastic baton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_bullet) tactical nukes. Keep up chap.  :)

One defendant of the riots walks into a lamp post (about 0:45 mins in)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdQCuc7CZo

Cameron has said that water cannons can be deployed with 24 hours notice. Fucking great news. The police can ask the rioters to pospone their riot until they get the cannons there the next day.

Senior policemen seem to be in agreement that water cannon are totally unnecssary at this moment in time, and given the reaction of the wider public to what's gone on I don't see the riots continuing much longer, let alone growing in scale.

And on top of that isn't there a hosepipe ban :)

:clap:

I agree, reckon it'll be all over by the weekend.

Cameron with his finger on the pulse as usual.

I heard an interview on the radio while driving home tonight with the father of one of the victims of last night's triple murder in Birmingham.  The man was dignity personified in calling for peace and solidarity and allowing justice to take its course - an unbelievable attitude considering he lost his son yesterday.  I'm not embarrassed to admit its the first time I shed a tear while driving.

I heard that too. The composure and presence of mind in calling to let the police deal with it was incredible. I wouldn't be so coherent even without such a loss.

Nothing to see up here. Film was shit and I kicked off big time.

[url width=480 height=640]http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262876_245136822186709_114476895252703_824365_7255558_n.jpg[/url]

Was this the speech on the telly?

I don't know, probably. I heard it on the radio news.

London 2012...

[url width=647 height=603]http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/tanswell2010/b7a86ff8.jpg[/url]

Some equally good looting photoshoppery here:

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14472472

this must be the guy previuos posters referred to - a real proper bloke.

As far as I can tell from the news, the only major incident tonight seems to be some pissed up EDL nutheads in Eltham.

Great to see that idiocy is an equal opportunities employer.

The courts appear to be throwing the book at everyone arrested during the riots / looting. Seems that the magistrate courts have been treating everyone the same, referring the case to the county courts and remanding them in custody. One bloke who knowingly bought some stolen clothes from a sports shop is looking at a prison sentence.

Seems a bit harsh at first but makes sense when you consider the seriousness of what happened as a whole and the role that every single person involved in it played.

No even comparable.

They were discussing charges on radio2 at lunchtime with a criminal solicitor, and if a looter who sets fire to a shop which also as a flat above it occupied they would get 7 and a half years. Even though they have endangered many lives, they said they would be out in two.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14520074

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with a man of the cloth. This pretty much sumes up my view. thank you Margaret Thatcher for creating this culture.

Don't see it myself. For me the main problem is an under class that don't give a fuck about law, order and respect for others as they're allowed to do whatever they want with little fear of being punished. We're far too soft on criminals and are far too worried about their rights than those they offend against.

I blame Blair myself.

Blair and Labour were too soft on crime and the underclass,but they didn't create them. The Tory government of the 80's did imo.

Nope,it is down to the breakdown of family/school and general discipline when young in my opinion.
All british boys/men should do a years service in the forces when they are young to help with discipline.
You cannot blame governments and the such for this...it is down to lack of respect and no discipline.

That's pretty much what the Bishop is saying though.

Britain's prison population rose to an all time high during the Labour years....we incarcerate more people than any other western European country.....even Ken Clarke acknowledges it doesn't work, and is therefore trying to encourage use of other methods

It doesn't work as sentences are too short. This coupled with anyone being able to breed is the problem imo. Scum breed scum. This problem will get worse as time goes by unless radical changes are introduced.

It was the blame being put on Thatcher I was disagreeing with.


I'd totally blame the government for this. Parents and teachers aren't allowed to discipline children any more, if they do they'll end up being arrested or sacked or sued. Don't see how you can blame them (parents and teachers) when their hands are pretty much tied - if the kid says fuck you then what are they supposed to do?

I don't see military service being the answer as the damage is often done well before that. My solution would be military style boot camps which kids get sent to if their parents and teachers can't control them, or if they break the law. Take them away from their mates, mobile phones, video games, internet, booze and so on and they'd get the message pretty quick.

A massive rethink is needed on the whole criminal system as well. As soon as someone gets an adult criminal record they're fucked and the chances of them getting out of the criminal life style are drastically reduced. Far too many end up in prison when there are better options such as curfews, tagging and various other restrictions that can be placed on them.

Take those arrested during the riots for the more minor offences (like grabbing something from a shop that had already been broken in to). Give them a a choice - a criminal record and some time in prison, or 1000 hours community service over the next 5 years. Plenty of options available.

Would this boot camp have big walls to stop them getting out? And bars on the room doors for the same reasons? And guards to make sure they stay in line and don't escape? And make them do hard labour in the day by chaining them together and giving them a pick axe to break up big blocks of brick.

I think unless there is a prison-like infrastructure then they just wouldn't stay there. Juvenile prisons are fine by me.

Yes, except for the hard labour bit. I wouldn't call them guards and I wouldn't call it a prison either, though I'd go with having the military run it or at least run it along military lines.

You'd start by restricting their freedom and privileges, then if they behave they start getting them back. That way it should get the message across that if you play by the rules good things happen and if you don't then bad things happen.

The benefits culture that has been created (by Blair) hasn't helped the situation though.  There are people who see no issue with having a ridiculous number of children they can't personally support, because they are able to claim vast sums of money in benefits to do it for them. The older kids more often than not will be left to roam the estates, while the mother attends to the latest addition.  Unfortunately this way of living then gets passed down and only in rare cases will the kids not follow suit.

You've only got to look at the mother of 10 who was in the paper this week demanding additional support on top of the £30,000 a year she gets in various forms of benefit.  She made a choice to continually breed children knowing she was unable to support them some.  I take exception to paying tax and NI on the wages I work hard for to support my own family being used to help people like this.

Benefits should be there for those that require them through a situation change they had no control on, not for those who create the situation themselves.

Bang on

The benefits culture has been there for years. The Tories switched people from unemployment on to disability so as they could get unemployment rates down. These people hit the gravy train and haven't stopped riding it.

The interesting thing is the amount of rioters in court who actually have jobs (teaching assistants, care workers)... it wasn't solely those with nothing who decided to take this action. Makes it harder to understand the reasons and causes.

Not forgetting wrecking communities,public services and jobs with privatisation of everything and selling whatever they could.
Some towns have never recovered

You've just described the last Labour government. When did you switch to the Tories?

I think talking about this as a problem with the underclass is a bit narrow-minded. Yes, the riots were largely conducted by poorly educated people from some of Britain's more deprived areas, but the amoral 'me-first' culture extends much further. I'm hardly the first to point to tax dodging and expenses swindling carried out by some of our country's well-educated and successful 'elite', who have built careers upon the high-quality education they so gladly received yet spat in the face of the general public once it got them into a position they could use for their own gain.

I'm not saying anybody in this thread is wrong... I just think we need to broaden the lens and realise that the educated, the rich and the powerful are not immune to the cultural problems in our society, they just exhibit them in different ways.

Totally agree, people from all backgrounds and walks of life were involved. I took this slightly off topic by raising the benefits issue. The article about the woman I mentioned in my post has really pissed me off

I don't disagree with you CS, but the current working tax/child tax credit system  was implemented by Labour.  Imo it's an open invite for the workshy to breed kids.  The more they have, the more money they get.

Dont agree...you discipline your kids as you see fit...who takes notice of the government when bringing up kids.
Good teachers should be able to teach and discipline without clouting or shouting or using a cane.
Fact is parents are to blame for our troubles with the youngsters...not our governments,you can blame the government for lots of things but not how you teach your kids respect.
Fact is that the first person charged with rioting and stealing was a teaching mentor from Croydon,sums things up nicely really.
Sentencing harsher isn't the answer...stopping them thinking/doing the crime in the first place is....and that lesson is taught at home or should be.

Seriously difficult in the less desirable schools (largely inner city). It doesn't matter how good you are, if a child wants to be disruptive (like chucking chairs around the room, or worse) they will be. The problem is with the parents who usually don't give a toss.

Although we can argue about why we have an underclass and the cause of it that doesn't stop the problem.
Something has to be done about the Jeremy Kyle generation. The only way i can see an end to it is by limiting people breeding. That won't happen as the bleeding heart brigade will scream about human rights etc.

I agree with you Batch, it's the parents. It's easy to chuck your kids out the door and not care what they're doing. It's much harder to say no if you don't want them to go somewhere or with certain individuals. We get stress and abuse from our eldest for saying no (mean, horrible parents!), but at least she does what she's told. I don't think the parents of the vandals have any control over/respect from their children.

I was out of the country so missed much of what went on. But, from what I saw, I would like to see:

1. Equal punishments (jail time) given to parents as well as the offspring who were involved.
2. The chap who robbed the injured foreign student to be named and shamed and meet up with someone a lot tougher than me before being handed over to the police for charging.
3. Compulsory conscription and national service for offenders. Service to then be given in the Engineers or something similar where they would be forced to do work on the Country's national infrastructure.

There is no answer I'm afraid