Tottenham

[Arriba]

What may have started as an uprising against the police and state has turned into a free for all. It is now opportunist thieves on the streets who have nothing better to do with their time.The british underclass. I expect it to kick off in Swindon. If Penhill was closer to the town centre it probably would have already.

[JanAageisGod]

I can't work out whether this is a social uprising or just that smashing things and stealing is fun and exciting...

[london_red]

One thing seeing these things on the news but when its happening where you are it’s pretty scary. Furniture shop about a mile from my house was up in flames last night in Croydon, could see the smoke all through the night and there were helicopters and sirens going past until about 3am. Luckily no one I know seems to have been seriously affected by the violence though.

Makes me furious, that these cunts use the excuse of a peaceful and legitimate vigil/protest to spark 3 days and counting of the most despicable violence, thievery and outright destruction that goes against everything a community should stand for.

Fair play to the police they are doing what they can, its very difficult to control a situation like this without risking escalating it even further. When I got off the train last night they were excellent at funneling people away from the problem areas and ensuring people could get home safely.

[MichaelLandon]

Don't think Talk Talk was every trying to justify what these people were doing just explain it. Yea the people doing it are fucking dick heads but its not like that's a genetic gene. Dickhead's area a product of the environment. Or im my opinion they are, doesn't mean what they have done is right. Also, I think with the resources available the police have done a great job and that after the dust has setled they'll be a fucking long case bringing a lot of these people to justice. As for all the other stuf tak talk said, was a fucking interesting debate (if you can call it that).

[Ardiles]

I do agree that much of the violence is opportunistic, but step back and ask why it's happening now.  My view is that this is part of a readjustment, where living standards in this country are on the decline.  The East is rising and the West, relatively, is in decline.  The problem with readjustments, however, is that they are rarely orderly or smooth.  They happen in fits and starts, gears get crunched.  It's never pretty.

The West's decline relative to the East has been happening for well over a decade, but we've not seen this show up in our living standards because of the vast sums of money the East (principally China) has been prepared to lend at low rates of interest since the start of the century.  That source of funding has now dried up, so the disorderly readjustment starts.

Of course, the effect of this impacts disproportionately on the youngest, and least on the oldest.  If you're 50+, you're likely to have benefitted more from the good times, you'll have been able to buy your house cheaply and, most likely, the mortgage will now have been paid off.  Your pension is likely to be generous, on terms simply not available to the younger generation (if, that is, they can find work.)  Day to day items have been cheap for most of your life because Far East economies have been producing them for a pittance.

If you're 25 or under, you'll be acutely aware that opportunities available to your parents will not be available to you.  The biggest opportunity is the opportunity to work.  When the squeeze came, those already in jobs clung on (and are still clinging on) for dear life - and understandably so.  But the conveyer belt broke down so that the youngest generation of adults have not been able to enter the labour market in the same numbers.  Things cost more, you have less money, a university education is no longer provided by the state but, instead, costs the same as a high end car.  Not a great time to be in your 20s.

I'm not excusing violence; I'm just explaining why I'm not surprised that this has all kicked off.  There's a very pissed off, disenfranchised generation of youngsters out there.  Add in school holidays and long, warm summer evenings...and it's not hard to see how something like the death in Tottenham is going to throw a spark on to the wood pile.

For once, I'm actually in agreement with at least some of what TalkTalk is saying.

[bassett boy]

Ardiles
Very good post i agree with the majority that you have to say
Couple of points late 70's early 80's were a familar scene difference now  is education beyond 18 is for well off people

[Benzel]

I read from someone that the guy who was shot actually pulled a gun on the police. Can anyone confirm?

[reeves4england]

Ardiles
Very good post i agree with the majority that you have to say
Couple of points late 70's early 80's were a familar scene difference now  is education beyond 18 is for well off people

It's not... it's just portrayed that way. But that's a whole different debate.

[reeves4england]

I read from someone that the guy who was shot actually pulled a gun on the police. Can anyone confirm?

No, nobody can... they're still investigating to find that out.

[bassett boy]

I read from someone that the guy who was shot actually pulled a gun on the police. Can anyone confirm?

Yes this is true he was known for always carrying a gun

[Muffin Man]

I think if its going to kick off in Swindon its more likely to be in the Manchester Road area than Penhill TBF Arriba.

[MichaelLandon]

450 arrested in 3 days and more to come. The police apparently reacted slowly but now seem to be doing a great job. Hopefully the worst is over now

[bassett boy]

It's not... it's just portrayed that way. But that's a whole different debate.

Hi as i understand it 2012 is when the new tution fees come in and the cost is roughly 9K please let me know

[reeves4england]

Hi as i understand it 2012 is when the new tution fees come in and the cost is roughly 9K please let me know

Correct... but the way that money is paid is through a pay-as-you-earn loan repayment system after you leave university, therefore tuition fees themselves do not necessarily exclude anybody from higher education.

[MichaelLandon]

Of course these fees make it harder for people from a poorer background go to Uni. I recently graduated, my family make decent money but are no way that well off and I would never have gone with these new fees. Truth of the matter is most people i know need some financial help from their parents as well over the three years, regardless how much they work.

I would never go to university now, unless my parents were well off and Daddy could pay large amounts of my loan off for me ( i said daddy to come across as middle class, I never actually refer to it as that).

Yes the pay system is the same as always, pay as you earn, but its simple maths. The more expensive shit is the less the poor can afford it. Or at least this is how I see it.