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Author Topic: Garner Out  (Read 19324 times)
Bob's Orange
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« Reply #165 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 11:51:12 »

I note that the club admin have stopped posting the possession and passing stats that they were lauding earlier on this season.

That said they are probably scared to post anything at the moment given how the fanbase are feeling! Smiley
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ChalkyWhiteIsGod
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« Reply #166 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 12:40:16 »

I note that the club admin have stopped posting the possession and passing stats that they were lauding earlier on this season.

That said they are probably scared to post anything at the moment given how the fanbase are feeling! Smiley

It's a better idea than when we were getting relegated and anyone with any sense wanted our owner gone and the club admin would ignore our relegation in favour of posts asking if anyone "had that Friday feeling" and was looking forward to the game Saturday.
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #167 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 13:26:29 »

It's a better idea than when we were getting relegated and anyone with any sense wanted our owner gone and the club admin would ignore our relegation in favour of posts asking if anyone "had that Friday feeling" and was looking forward to the game Saturday.

It's a tough one being admin at the best of times, but when things are not going well, every post is returned with a volley of abuse. I think during our relegation season nobody was looking forward to any games and so putting out those kind of messages were only going to get one kind of reaction, but at the end of the day, they are just doing their job and I assume getting 'traffic' is the end goal regardless.
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Frigby Daser

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« Reply #168 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 13:33:48 »

I think it takes brave thinking for a club to recognise early and act on it, if the appointment is wrong. We don’t know for sure if it is yet - that depends on how Garner can evolve the style to pass, but quickly and with purpose. If he can’t change, or refuses to change, then he should go - because our play is not only ineffective (because we pass around at slow pace at the back, so the opposition forwards can press, whilst the midfield and defence organise behind them!) but it is also painfully dull and saps the crowd. The exact opposite of what should be happening. So as a fan, we’re watching good players playing below par, in a way that does not entertain. That will undermine every signing Chorley makes, and every business initiative that Morfuni and Angus come up with, because there will be fewer people ready to watch it. I’d personally give him the season to show a change of intent, but if that doesn’t happen, then don’t waste next season with this brand of football as well.
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RobertT

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« Reply #169 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 13:46:48 »

Garners style is the complete opposite of Flitcrofts, which I despised.  However, Garners approach is fraught with many of the same issues around how it looks to the paying supporter.

Flitcroft seemed to believe that you simply cannot trust a player at this level to do much with the ball, on either side.  Therefore he loaded up four forwards on the team, a basic bottle carrying midfield two and four cloggers at the back.  There was no real need for those defenders to be much kop at passing, or overlapping.  Just hit the ball forwards.  The idea being, I suppose, that the defenders on the other side may clear most of the time, but will fuck up.  Plus our forwards would be able to get on the end of some of the balls.  Either way, you get possession near the other teams box, quite a bit.  It's not good possession, but you know you will get chances.  It was god fucking awful to watch.

Garner is the opposite - keep the ball at all costs, the other team cannot score if you have it,  Do it right and you tire them down and create chances.  At least when it does work it's good to watch, but it does mean entire games can be dull as fucking dishwater as a result, especially when it doesn't work.

Neither are spectator fare.
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Batch
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« Reply #170 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 13:49:36 »

We are of course assuming the style of play comes from the manager and not above .

I can't see why it would be dictated down, other than to attract u23 players from higher league (cheaper, 'better quality')

probably bollocks theory, just putting it out there
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RobertT

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« Reply #171 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 13:51:10 »

We are of course assuming the style of play comes from the manager and not above .

I can't see why it would be dictated down, other than to attract u23 players from higher league (cheaper, 'better quality')

probably bollocks theory, just putting it out there

He is doing it the same way he did at Rovers.  Case closed.

That's not to say that a general approach for recruitment and selling on hasn't come from above - the general ethos leads to choosing someone like Garner who will then happily work with that remit.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey

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« Reply #172 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 14:16:52 »

I can see the ethos behind coaching young players with a view to improving them to sell later down the line, hence keeping the club solvent.

But that only works if the young players are OUR young players. Building a side which is 50% some other club’s young players makes no sense at all. We get fucked over if they do well by them getting recalled in January and have to hastily replace them with another set of somebody else’s youngsters.

Presuming at the end of the season the squad will get decimated again with the loans gone plus the likes of Reed and Payne seeking pastures new. Maybe the crux is that the ethos that attracted some to sign up to play Garner-ball are just as fed up with it as most of us are.
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JoeMezz

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« Reply #173 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 14:42:07 »

I can see the ethos behind coaching young players with a view to improving them to sell later down the line, hence keeping the club solvent.

But that only works if the young players are OUR young players. Building a side which is 50% some other club’s young players makes no sense at all. We get fucked over if they do well by them getting recalled in January and have to hastily replace them with another set of somebody else’s youngsters.

Presuming at the end of the season the squad will get decimated again with the loans gone plus the likes of Reed and Payne seeking pastures new. Maybe the crux is that the ethos that attracted some to sign up to play Garner-ball are just as fed up with it as most of us are.

100% this. What’s the point in improving KKH and Simpson to then start again in January? Seems pointless
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horlock07

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« Reply #174 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 14:42:48 »

I can see the ethos behind coaching young players with a view to improving them to sell later down the line, hence keeping the club solvent.

But that only works if the young players are OUR young players. Building a side which is 50% some other club’s young players makes no sense at all. We get fucked over if they do well by them getting recalled in January and have to hastily replace them with another set of somebody else’s youngsters.

Presuming at the end of the season the squad will get decimated again with the loans gone plus the likes of Reed and Payne seeking pastures new. Maybe the crux is that the ethos that attracted some to sign up to play Garner-ball are just as fed up with it as most of us are.

I think its has been discussed on the other thread that this season cannot really be judged in terms of the ethos as it was all flung together at the last minute basically to fulfil our initial fixtures and go from there.

The problem seems to arise with this developing young players idea that as it stands we only appear to have Iandolo (tenuously) and Parsons home developed young and anywhere near the first team, now Garner may well be misjudging the players but the fact that our yoofs cannot even really get on the bench in normal times suggests that the wider framework just isn't in place for such an ethos to work in the short/medium term?
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horlock07

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« Reply #175 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 14:46:54 »

100% this. What’s the point in improving KKH and Simpson to then start again in January? Seems pointless

But i don't think KKH Simpson or any of the other players on loan have been bought in to improve on our behalf, they were bought in because they were/are better than anything we have no the books or anything we could afford to buy. Yes it helps us get better players if we hve a reputation for brining them on, but that only really perpetuates the loan market model and is not really going to sustain us in this league or higher.

The issue remains either we spend cash or we get more savvy, if you look at teams like Accrington or Tranmere their budgets will not be, I imagine, hugely different to ours but they are doing things differently.
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singingiiiffy

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« Reply #176 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 16:07:23 »

100% this. What’s the point in improving KKH and Simpson to then start again in January? Seems pointless

because for half a season we have players that are better than we could sign. which improves the team and wins us point. yes its a double edged sword but thats life in league 1 and 2.

would you prefer these good players go to someone else in the league just because we are worried about a recall. its not like all loan players are a success- its a risk you take
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adje

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« Reply #177 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 16:42:00 »

100% this. What’s the point in improving KKH and Simpson to then start again in January? Seems pointless
Well it did get us at the proper end of the table which gives a bit of leeway if/when they do go back I suppose
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« Reply #178 on: Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 18:25:42 »

100% this. What’s the point in improving KKH and Simpson to then start again in January? Seems pointless
To avoid relegation, which was the aim all season
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