New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Bennett]

We've updated our Q&A, and the list of Q's with the club

https://truststfc.com/2025/04/12/redevelopment-questions/

[Nemo]

I did smile at the question requesting that Clem provide proof of funds before the vote - a nice inversion of his stance on selling the club.

[Oaksey Moonraker]

I saw this a few weeks ago on how Accrington invested £2.5M in their hospitality facilities and generated revenue of £900K in the first year.

https://www.dawnvale.com/news/accrington-stanley-f-c-stadium-fit-out-dawnvale/

[Andyred83]

It will be interesting to see how much these Exec boxes will cost the club.

I have just looked and Posh charge £15K a season for their boxes in League 1.

Would we be able to charge in League 2 £12K? if is, that's £120K per season.

I think i did see somewhere an estimated cost of £1.5m. 12 years to recover the cost. I can see there being much use for them outside of football, maybe meetings but they aren't going to generate masses of income (We are all still using Teams etc for meetings)

[Batch]

I saw this a few weeks ago on how Accrington invested £2.5M in their hospitality facilities and generated revenue of £900K in the first year.

https://www.dawnvale.com/news/accrington-stanley-f-c-stadium-fit-out-dawnvale/

Very impressive - though not clear how much of an increase on previous years. I guess this does teall the story:

Previously, hospitality on matchdays hosted between 50-80 guests at an average of £50 per head in a traditional suite. Now, the 1968 Lounge accommodates 130-180 guests at roughly £80-£100 per head. Coley's Bar and the Chairman's Lounge also see regular high attendance.

(180*100) - (80*50) = 14,400 extra a game @ max
14400 * 23 = £322000 extra pa
so 2500000/322000 = 7.76 years payback based on match day revenue alone..

Which is probably garbage, as presumably they use it for other things outside match days.


Its more akin to revamping in the Arkells I guess.

[Nemo]

That is assuming that hospitality is pure profit mind. I'm sure the margins are fairly high (particularly if you heavily ration peas) but there will be some erm... admin costs.

[reeves4england]

It will be interesting to see how much these Exec boxes will cost the club.

I have just looked and Posh charge £15K a season for their boxes in League 1.

Would we be able to charge in League 2 £12K? if is, that's £120K per season.

I think i did see somewhere an estimated cost of £1.5m. 12 years to recover the cost. I can see there being much use for them outside of football, maybe meetings but they aren't going to generate masses of income (We are all still using Teams etc for meetings)

I’ve heard of people booking corporate boxes at grounds for conducting job interviews etc. My organisation’s often looked at hotel meeting facilities but if the offering and marketing at STFC was good I’m sure many would look at it. Big if, of course.

[Andyred83]

I’ve heard of people booking corporate boxes at grounds for conducting job interviews etc. My organisation’s often looked at hotel meeting facilities but if the offering and marketing at STFC was good I’m sure many would look at it. Big if, of course.

I get there will other uses, but how often is that going to happen. Most large companies these days do 1st round interviews on Teams before 2nd round face to face. If companies did book it for that type of use, £250 a day? its peanuts. 

[horlock07]

I did smile at the question requesting that Clem provide proof of funds before the vote - a nice inversion of his stance on selling the club.

Possibly, but its just another one of the pointless questions that keep cropping up on these things, as Clem isn't going to be funding it its an irrelevance.

What was interesting in the Q&A so far is that the JV does have the rights to see the construction contracts etc and also are already suggesting that if the plans change too much between concept and planning they will challenge.

I get there will other uses, but how often is that going to happen. Most large companies these days do 1st round interviews on Teams before 2nd round face to face. If companies did book it for that type of use, £250 a day? its peanuts. 

Who knows, if they have any intention of actually building the thing (which I suspect they have as why bother spaffing money on decent architects if its just PR guff) they wouldn't have got this far without having some manner of business plan in place, similarly long and short if it doesn't have the potential to make money to cover the costs of construction and provide a return, no one will lend the money and thus it will never happen.

[TailBetweenLegs]

The key thing i am taking from this is that it seems the development approval is life or death for Clem. With it seemingly very easy for it to get approval mi can't imagine him sticking around if it keeps getting refused

[Nemo]

Possibly, but its just another one of the pointless questions that keep cropping up on these things, as Clem isn't going to be funding it its an irrelevance.

Am I being a bit naïve or is that not (confirmed) to be the case?

Sure it might be coming from borrowing rather than Clem's personal cash, but he is fundamentally funding it, no? (or at least, on the face of it)

I can't imagine anyone's going to loan it to the club alone with nothing to secure it against.

I think asking how they're paying for it is a perfectly sensible starting question.

[horlock07]

Am I being a bit naïve or is that not (confirmed) to be the case?

Sure it might be coming from borrowing rather than Clem's personal cash, but he is fundamentally funding it, no? (or at least, on the face of it)

I can't imagine anyone's going to loan it to the club alone with nothing to secure it against.

I think asking how they're paying for it is a perfectly sensible starting question.

But long and short I suspect that Clem won't be putting a penny of his hard cash (if he has any any more) in so any talk of PoF is pointless.

Possibly the question to be asked is to what extent do the JV have some manner of control/veto over what charges may be created should the lease of the ground (which as far as I can tell is pretty much the only asset the club holds which is possibly unfettered by the Trust having a say they could use as collateral) be offered up as security against any loans. A funder will create a legal charge against the borrower company (Christ knows which company that would be but I assume STFC Ltd unless they set up some manner of development vehicle).

Like so much involving the club its a can of worms with so many companies involved in the basic ownership model and whilst the Trust having 50% of the JV, I'd also be interested to know where the Eady Trust stand in the background to all this, I remain suspicious that either they or the Council refused to sanction the sale/purchase with the debentures hanging over the club (hence the sudden need to borrow the cash to pay them off at very short notice) so I wonder what else they may have picked up/planned for.

On a wider issue noting the fact that Dai Younnge has had his FaPP revoked by the FL after legals issues in Hong Kong, is Clem at similar threat if the Aussie cases go against him (probably been covered at length somewhere on here previously but I give up ready at times).

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

The key thing i am taking from this is that it seems the development approval is life or death for Clem. With it seemingly very easy for it to get approval mi can't imagine him sticking around if it keeps getting refused

I'd like to think he might fuck off if it reaches a dead end but honestly he seems to be here for the long haul sadly.

[tans]

I'd like to think he might fuck off if it reaches a dead end but honestly he seems to be here for the long haul sadly.

In an ideal world this gets refused and he fucks off.

[Honkytonk]

Revenue is not profit

Hospitality undoubtedly has big overheads because you need plenty of staff if you want to offer an actual premium service and not meals on wheels or slopped out grub. Even with the shit state of the hospitality industry and pressured wages because of it you'll need minimum 2-3 kitchen staff, plus porters, plus front of house. They'll be paid whether or not those boxes are filled, unless you put them on zero hours contracts (wouldn't surprise me, especially as they'll essentially only be needed once a week 23 times a year). I'd imagine this would be a side gig for anyone with experience, but having a side gig if you work in a good kitchen that happens on a Saturday lunchtime you're having a laugh if you think you're getting a pass to go do from your current workplace. If you tried opening a restaurant which was open once a week 23 times a year I think you'd be laughed out of the bank - yes football hospitality is not a restaurant, but the same overheads remain in place.

So even fully maxed out, that hospitality revenue is looking shaky. It's not like Swindon doesn't have conference spaces aplenty that this will be competing with in the off season and during the week.

FWIW, I don't hate the concept, I just think replacing the best seats in our best stand (sorry Arkells) for it is dumb.