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25% => Players => Topic started by: Jimmy HaveHave on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:01:49



Title: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:01:49
A complete rebuild is needed for next season, who would you keep & let go, what type of players do we need and any names spring to mind.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:06:09
Keep Austin, Tomlinson, McEachran, and FBT

I wouldnít be sad to see any others go in all honesty. Maybe Lavinier if heís played in his natural position. The rest are all a bit Ďmehí


Title: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:09:30
Austin, Williams, lavinier, Hutton, Clayton, FBT, possibly mcE.

the rest are either average or too injury prone


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:09:54
I've not seen Brewitt so can't comment but we definitely need at least 2 quality centre halfs along with Austin, Tomlinson, McEachran, FBT, for starters.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:11:19
Austin, Williams, lavinier, Hutton, Clayton, FBT, possibly mcE.

the rest are either average or too injury prone

See, Hutton is another one I donít rate that others seem too. Had a few good games and thatís it.
Williams has none absolutely fuck all since being back from the World Cup, so he can fuck off too as far as Iím concerned.


Title: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:22:46
I can understand the response to both of those tbh.

Both well off where they were at various parts of the year.

I think a fit Tomlinson would stay, but he's so bloody injury prone, and we have FBT to play left back.

khan - meh
Darcy - meh
Cain - meh
wakeling - meh
RHM - meh

I think you can see a pattern forming


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:23:52
Let's hope Morris is his own man with own ideas and knows how to build a decent squad.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:33:33
Itís clear to see recruitment hasnít been great, not as bad as some state, but not good enough.
That is largely down to Sandro, so he needs to be the first to go.

I guess the question is would players like Clayton, Khan & Wakeling have been better with some more experience around them, personally I think so.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:34:27
Top of our shopping list should be a defensive coach who specialises in defending set pieces.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:34:43
Itís clear to see recruitment hasnít been great, not as bad as some state, but not good enough.
That is largely down to Sandro, so he needs to be the first to go.

I guess the question is would players like Clayton, Khan & Wakeling have been better with some more experience around them, personally I think so.

Khan is 27, heís an experienced player himself. He shouldnít need any around him.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:37:47
Yeah itís not necessary experience we lack as much as leadership.

That tends to be more prevalent in experienced pros but not always.
Jerel Ifil played like an inexperienced kid his whole career. There will be players who could leader from the age of 19.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:38:32
Khan is 27, heís an experienced player himself. He shouldnít need any around him.

How many league games had he played before this season?

Iíd say Bellingham is a more experienced player at 19


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:47:46
How many league games had he played before this season?

Iíd say Bellingham is a more experienced player at 19

He was only the league below, playing for a former league side against teams like Yeovil, Southend, Notts County, Wrexham, Torquay etc.
Itís not much different coming in to league 2.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:00:57
I hope we get some height into the team as we're no threat from set pieces and concede too many.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:07:02
It has been an absolute clusterfuck this season. In my opinion the owner got the first season right, they have the second one wrong so it'll be interesting to see how this summer goes. If we go into next season the same as this then we are in trouble.

Players like Cain and Clayton look shell shocked to me and are no good to the current model if their confidence is going to be battered .

Our second half back 4 today had around 85 league appearanceds between them with 35 of those being from wakeling upfront.  


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:21:22
On the whole, I think we have our 'squad players' for next year and not much more...

I would keep:

Ward (if he counts!) - Solid inexpensive backup at this level.
Hutton - Decent sub for next season.
Clayton - Something to work with but shocking today.
Brewitt - Decent versatile squad player for next year. Not sure he was at fault for a goal today.
Minturn - Keep but maybe a National League loan to go and play 30+ games.
FBT - Starting XI. First choice LB for next year, or left of a back three. Not a centre back.
Lavinier - Worthwhile utility player.
Cain - Could be a good squad player.
Darcy - A spare #10 on the bench. No more than a squad player.
McEachran - Starting XI. Quality player. Must keep.
Kahn - Good midfield wildcard.
Williams - Starting XI. Divides opinion but as a #10 at this level, alongside some steel, he is quality.
Shade - Flashes of quality, flashes of lobotomy. Option from the bench.
RHM - A good attacking option off the bench.
Austin - Starting XI. If he is happy to stay, we'd be mad not to try. If both he and Williams leave it will say something about ambition.

That makes 4 of the starting XI and 11 squad players.

On that basis we are after at least:

1xGK (Over 25, at least 100 EFL appearances), 1xRB, 2xCB (One 6ft 4in, over 28 years old with 200+ EFL appearances), 1xLB, 1xDM (A hard tackling midfield leader with 200+ EFL appearances), 1xWinger (an exciting, bums off seats, beat your man and whip it in maverick), 2xCF (including 1x6ft 3in back to goal target man.)

That makes 24 players. Round out with a couple of the yoof.

Get rid:

Iandolo, Baudry, Tomlinson (too injury prone), Harries, Devine (too injury prone), Kadji, Roberts, Adeloye, Jephcott, Aguiar

EDIT- I forgot Wakeling, who is filed under 'keep'.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:42:05
Probably about right and shows what a piss poor job of recruitment weíve done. Iíd say itís time for Williams to go as well, for what it would probably cost keep him I donít think he contributes enough.

The only 2 Iíd definitely start next season are the 2 Ralph didnít sign in January, Austin and McEachran. Clayton seems well regarded by many but not even convinced heís up to it yet as heís a part of an awful defence.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: kaufman on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:50:27
Hutton will be playing in L1 next season judging by the amount of rumours and interest heís attracted.
In fact quite a few of this squad will either thrive with us next season or go on to do well with other clubs next year.
Morris and especially Brand must see a bright future and surely would have been given reassurances but theyíve also been hired because of their development skills with younger players.
An interesting preseason for sure and M&B will feel the pressure.
This group of players just need a rest and the Lindsey reign kicked out them.
As mentioned above, a season wasted


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 20:14:43
Quote from: Posh Red

I guess the question is would players like Clayton, Khan & Wakeling have been better with some more experience around them, personally I think so.


yeah it's a fair point, agreed


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 20:19:20
That's my view. Sprinkle a bit of experience and quality in there and I think it will raise the level across the board.

I neither think we want nor need a wholesale clear out.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: NotHarryAgombar on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 21:09:26
To some extent budgets will impact - we may not be able to offload some of those on 2 year deals, nor pay McEachran and Williams enough to outbid other clubs.
 Some may not want to be here - in which case we need to move them on, and of course Morris/Brand will no doubt have views on whether some are wanted or not.
Subject to the above, I agree with many of Moneyrakerís assessments apart from
I would get rid of both Darcy - lightweight, pulls out of tackles and poor decision making, and Khan - always a yellow or red card waiting to happen,
I would keep Iandolo as I think his versatility is useful, although he is injury prone, which counts against him.
One thing we need is more physicality - so we are able to defend set pieces better and not be outmuscled in midfield by some teams.
The goalkeeper position is interesting - I suspect the current Ward situation would be unblocked very quickly if Brynn were injured or sent off.
Next season, if we want a keeper who is comfortable with the ball at his feet, then Ward is back up at best. Brynn is currently suffering from having an unstable defence (changing game by game) and no dominant centre half in the back 4/5 in front of him.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 09:38:55
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

In terms of what's required, then that would be a backbone or spine.
So, as a minimum, a GK, one destructive CM and one that can run with the ball from central positions, a mobile centre forward that can win headers in both boxes and a flair player or two with pace, wide MF or forward.
Age doesn't matter, but a minimum of 100 games league experience preferred.

And just to keep Jimmy happy, any new arrivals should be a minimum of 6'6" in height.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 09:54:12
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

In terms of what's required, then that would be a backbone or spine.
So, as a minimum, a GK, one destructive CM and one that can run with the ball from central positions, a mobile centre forward that can win headers in both boxes and a flair player or two with pace, wide MF or forward.
Age doesn't matter, but a minimum of 100 games league experience preferred.

And just to keep Jimmy happy, any new arrivals should be a minimum of 6'6" in height.

Agree with all of that really. We need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater - ship out a few of the fringe guys where we can, add some players that can enforce their will on the game (regardless of age) and lead the side.

There are probably 15 guys in this squad who I'd be happy to see in our 23 next season - but they're mostly as squad players, so the ones that are brought in need to be the leaders.

If we're breaking it down:

No chance of keeping: Brynn

Keep if we can: Hutton, Clayton, Tomlinson (fitness permitting), Brewitt, FBT, Lavinier, McEachran, Williams, Khan, Austin, RHM, Wakeling

Don't mind too much either way: Brann, Devine, Minturn, Iandolo, Darcy, Cain, Shade

Get rid if we can: Harries, Aguiar, Roberts, Adeloye, Massey

Already gone/loan returns: Baudry, Brennan, Kadji, Jephcott


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:15:02
I think Hutton, Williams, Adeloye, RHM, Austin, Iandolo all get sold/turn down deals

Darcy, Cain, Devine (too much of a risk) Aguiar, Massey, Roberts can all go imo, no real loss

Not sure if Tomlinson is jinxed or made of glass? Played 40 games in 20/21 season for Eastleigh.. Iíd keep anyway, local lad and fan and all that.

Be good to hear from our Technical director/Director of football as to what the plans areÖ..


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Ides of March on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:19:06
Would be fine to see Williams go. For a player of his pedigree, I genuinely feel that most the time he looks like a bog standard L2 midfielder. Itís strange as I could see his style of play working much better in L1 and having more success there. In L2, he is often anonymous in games and shows very little signs of a player who has played at a higher level. I assume heís on a decent chunk down here, and if so, heís certainly not justifying it.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:35:58
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

In terms of what's required, then that would be a backbone or spine.
So, as a minimum, a GK, one destructive CM and one that can run with the ball from central positions, a mobile centre forward that can win headers in both boxes and a flair player or two with pace, wide MF or forward.
Age doesn't matter, but a minimum of 100 games league experience preferred.

And just to keep Jimmy happy, any new arrivals should be a minimum of 6'6" in height.

I guess you don't see height as an issue then Bob and prefer the smaller player who can't deal with set pieces in either box🤔


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:43:07
I guess you don't see height as an issue then Bob and prefer the smaller player who can't deal with set pieces in either box🤔

I think you need a good mix, letís be fair you wouldnít turn down a Messi or even a Dennis Wise type player, but you would need a couple of big lads in there too.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:48:41
I think you need a good mix, letís be fair you wouldnít turn down a Messi or even a Dennis Wise type player, but you would need a couple of big lads in there too.

Agree that we need a mix and I'm only talking about a big centre half who is vocal and can organise, a centre forward who can hold up play and cause a threat and bully the opposition defenders along with some physicality in midfield mixed with young skilfull players who can move the ball at pace.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Trashbat? on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:04:31
I think Hutton, Williams, Adeloye, RHM, Austin, Iandolo all get sold/turn down deals

Darcy, Cain, Devine (too much of a risk) Aguiar, Massey, Roberts can all go imo, no real loss

Not sure if Tomlinson is jinxed or made of glass? Played 40 games in 20/21 season for Eastleigh.. Iíd keep anyway, local lad and fan and all that.

Be good to hear from our Technical director/Director of football as to what the plans areÖ..

I couldnít care less that Tomlinson is a local lad. We need players that can play week in week out, if he canít stay fit he is no different to Devine.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bennett on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:08:03
Be good to hear from our Technical director/Director of football as to what the plans areÖ..
That won't sell tickets for the late promotion charge dead rubbers we've got until the end of the season!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Power to people on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:12:03
We need that mix of youth and experience, the youth need to be players that can be developed as well though,  we are a selling club and always will be but we need to keep a squad, not sell the prospects as soon as another club knocks on the door, saving a few thousand pounds about.

I would like to see Clem come out and discuss this season, but that wont be until the season is over, but he likes to stay quiet and in the background, but I think now is the time for him to speak up (he's capable of using Zoom from aussie)

The club wants to sell season tickets for next season and at the moment they are not convincing those that are on the fence that they know what is needed.

There also needs to be changes in the backroom, not just SDM, there is no permanent club secretary, media officer seems to be lacking, there seems to be a lack of people in the other positions, it all needs to be sorted so the club is run correctly rather than cutting corners to save a few quid so it can be spent elsewhere.

I'd like to hear the plan for next season, is SDM still going to be signing the players from his spreadsheet or will they be listening to Morris and getting the type of players needed to build a squad he wants ?

The trouble is if Clem still wants to go with his moneyball plan with SDM.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: donkey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:58:21
Given all these late goals, we need to get them up and down the hills of Wiltshire to build some fitness in the pre season, a la Macari.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:01:57
Given all these late goals, we need to get them up and down the hills of Wiltshire to build some fitness in the pre season, a la Macari.

Go back 37/38 years ago I'm pretty certain they would have been running along the Ridgeway early this morning🤣


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:05:23
That won't sell tickets for the late promotion charge dead rubbers we've got until the end of the season!

😂😂 very true. Itís a catch 22 I guess, when he speaks, he comes across awfully. Like, shocking -fans get annoyed. And when he doesnít speak, fans annoyed by the silence 😭😭😭


defo need some clarification as to what the fuck has happened this season though, itís been a shitshow and the January window was a double shit show.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: donkey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:07:14
Go back 37/38 years ago I'm pretty certain they would have been running along the Ridgeway early this morning🤣

Perfect!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:41:07
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

Not sure I agree with that, itís the old adage that the league table doesnít lie. Weíre heading for a bottom half finish in league 2 which suggests the majority of our squad are bottom half league 2 in quality.

Assuming Austin calls it quits McEachran and FBT (at left back not centre back) apart I donít think any of the other players are good enough or consistent enough to start every week.

We need 7 or 8 starters for next season to turn things around, thats pretty wholesale. Hutton apart I donít think Iíd offer any of our out of contract players a new deal so that we can free up space. I think we need to accept this squad and the majority of players are actually just very average league 2 players. We overrate a lot of our players based on a few occasional flashes of potential amongst regular poor to average performances. Even Clayton and Wakeling, our much fabled Crown Jewels are they really good enough to start every week at the moment? Iím not sure they are.

Assuming we go back to trying to be a football club with the aim of winning games next season we need to clear as much space for better players as possible over the summer.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:46:15
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:49:47
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?
Indeed.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:50:41
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?
They become squad players not starters. With the exception of McEachran and Hutton (I doubt heíd stay anyway) I donít think itís controversial to say let all our out of contract players go. That should free up sufficient space to bring in some regular starters.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: blinkpip on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:55:50
Will see what happens, but the clues on a decent rebuild usually shows by late May. Leave the recruitment late then it's the scraps other clubs don't want.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:56:42
But they would still be on the payroll. And weíve got a big squad now.  If we want better quality they will cost. Maybe the reason we will probably lose Austin/Williams.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:57:23
If there's nothing interest in a few of the players not wanted there's always the option to terminate the contracts if all parties agree.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:02:52
But they would still be on the payroll. And weíve got a big squad now.  If we want better quality they will cost. Maybe the reason we will probably lose Austin/Williams.
Thereís about 11 out of contract and l canít see Adeloye or Aguiar being here next season one way or another. So that would give headroom. Iíve no problem with Darcy, Shade etc being bit part players but in a decent league 2 team they shouldnít be getting the game time they do.

If the majority of in contract starters this season become squad players next season and we bring in new regulars that would substantially increase our squad depth.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:07:15
I canít imagine we are in a financial position to start tearing up contracts at the end of the season.

Nor would the players accept it.

Hell, we donít even know if some of our players have another year left or not.

Fact is, we should be planning next seasons squad now. Get those offers on the table nowÖ


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:17:01
It should be even easier to get the contracts on the table now we know what league we will be in next season!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:17:28
Part of our problem last season was we let players dilly dally over our offers for too long.
Felt like Jack Payne took about 3 months to turn us down.
Plus from all accounts we didnít even get down to contract talks till the end of our season late May.

Get the ball rolling earlier


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:26:06
Totally agree. How did we not get Egbo tied down? Seemingly took him at his word and then got caught short. Another example of the absolute sh1tshow that is our 'football admin'.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 14:43:58
Ward: I'd really like him to improve his ball control and become a number 1. He pulls of some super saves at times, but is prone to the odd clanger.

Hutton: Doesn't seem to want to give more than 60-70%. I think he must want out.

Iandolo: I'd like to see him remain, but not as a starter. I think he is a decent squad player, but we need better from starters if we are ever going to get promoted.

Lavinier is an odd one for me. Sometimes I really like him, but other I think he's a liability. He reminds me of 'Kevin the Teenager' as when he tries something fancy and loses the ball, be seems to shrug his shoulders and harrumph before thinking about trying to win the ball back!

Clayton has looked good when partnered with a right footed CB who knows what they are doing. Prone to the odd mistake.

Khan: Has really blotted his copy book with the sending offs. Not sure if he has a history of that? I think he is the best that we have, but we should have a couple of other midfielders just as good if not better. I'd like to keep him with others around him, but, if we cash in, so be it.

Darcy: Can run lots and lots. But, not sure that there is much else there. He looks better when we are on top and winning. He really is a poor man's Payne.

Cain: Another lightweight midfielder who plays short, sharp, crisp passes. Can he win the ball? Can he inject energy? Can he drive forward? I haven't seen it.

Williams: I'm not sure that he will fit in with what Morris wants or what we can afford. If we have to keep Cain and Darcy then maybe we need some physicality

Shade: Was absolutely superb in one half of each of the two games he played for Walsall against us last year (but anonymous in the other two halves). He looks as if he is an athlete rather than a footballer. Unless we are playing him in the wrong position?

McEachran: Has done enough to earn a new contract, but I suspect others will offer him a more lucrative one.

Jephcott: I assume that we wont take up the option. He hasn't shown enough.

Austin: I hope he does another year. I can't see it though.

Adeloye is surely a non-league player. But, I was interested to hear Fjortoft saying that with a run of games, Adeloye is a different player.

Aguiar is not good enough

FBT is a starter at LB

Tomlinson is someone I hope stays fit. If he can do that then I think he's a good squad player.

Devine pay as you play gamble?

Harries looked poor in every game I saw him. Just too slow physically and mentally.

Brewitt looks like a versatile squad player. Didn't do so well vs Rochdale but has done enough before that to show he has something.

Wakeling is maybe an impact sub? Not sure anyone is going to come and pay us a lot for him. Looking at the 3 year contract, I think he will improve in that time.

RHM looks a handful for defenders. I'd like to see him kick on with us next year. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see him get offers.

So, in conclusion, I don't think there is anyone that I would say we 'had' to keep. I think there are better out there, for everyone except Austin. There are no other goalscorers like him in L2. But, can we afford him and can we afford to build around his short comings? Or would be better off trying to get someone younger who is on the way up?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 14:53:12
If you think there is enough quality strikers out there queuing up to play in L2 for L2 wages at STFC that we can just relegate Wakeling to a squad player then I think youíre expectations are too high.

Finished article, no
Great in every game he plays, no
Many better strikers out there available? Probably not at his age.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jamiestfc on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 15:36:33
Hi guys, new to the forum. So hello !
I personally think we should build a team around Brynn, FBT, Khan, Mceachran. Try and keep hold of Hutton, Williams & Austin and improve the surrounding areas with experience. Weíre crying out for some experience at the back and the know how of winning games at this level. We seem to throw away so many winnable games with a big lack in experience. I personally wouldíve kept Macdonald and Gladwin as we have not replaced them!
I really hope Austin stays and we play to his strengths as he has shown can be a cut above the level and the difference for us!
Regarding Williams, I also really hope he stays, Iíve loved watching him and seems to make the hard things look easy. I think weíve been lucky to have him thanks to the Garner link. He does get fouled a lot but I think itís the only way opponents can stop him at times e.g. Grealish. Pretty sure he has also been on the same wage under a wage cap when we signed him under a transfer embargo nearly 2 years ago. He definitely hasnít signed a new one since anyway! I remember Gladwin & Reed were given the same contracts at the same time. Unbelievable business from the club. Would not be surprised to see him walk to be honest though but I hope Iím wrong !!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 17:04:40
Hi guys, new to the forum. So hello !

Hello you cunt


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 18:22:00
If you think there is enough quality strikers out there queuing up to play in L2 for L2 wages at STFC that we can just relegate Wakeling to a squad player then I think youíre expectations are too high.

Finished article, no
Great in every game he plays, no
Many better strikers out there available? Probably not at his age.
What I mean is that I think he plays better and make more impact for the team when he comes off of the bench.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 18:32:01
Anyone know who had the biggest budget in league 2 and where we sat🤔


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 18:50:29
Quote from: Nomoreheroes

Iandolo: I'd like to see him remain, but not as a starter. I think he is a decent squad player, but we need better from starters if we are ever going to get promoted.


regardless of ability and flexibility opinions, surely his injury record is now such that if we get an offer we need to get shot


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 21:43:01
regardless of ability and flexibility opinions, surely his injury record is now such that if we get an offer we need to get shot
Depends on how much we are offered, but thereís a different between accepting a suitable offer and getting shot. I wouldnít get shot, but I wouldnít want him as a starter.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 22:01:41
Too many wearers of rose tinted spectacles. Gladwin, Conroy and Macdonald wouldnít have got us in the POs.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 22:32:26
Depends on how much we are offered, but thereís a different between accepting a suitable offer and getting shot. I wouldnít get shot, but I wouldnít want him as a starter.

But whats the point for 10-15 games per season


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 23:15:03
I can't see the transfer strategy changing much next season from this. With the factoring loan arrangement of future transfer fees being paid in advance then we need to ensure a regular flow of transfer income to repay.

So unless there is the next Jayden Bogle or the Ifil lad who went to Brighton in the youth set up, then it's gonna be the ex Academy youngsters and hope a couple come off. We aren't going to sign too many 6'3 League 2 29 year experienced players.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 23:25:08
But whats the point for 10-15 games per season
If we can get better for equal or less money then we should.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 23:58:02
😂😂 very true. Itís a catch 22 I guess, when he speaks, he comes across awfully. Like, shocking -fans get annoyed. And when he doesnít speak, fans annoyed by the silence 😭😭



You'll only get the billy bullshitter element of bluster from him, may as well wheel in BoJo
for it. The less we hear from him the better. I'd rather Clem put his head above the parapet, lead a press conference like an actual owner and lay down what changes he's going to implement.

It won't happen though. It'll come through a mixture of not so official channels like the STBL, some murmured mutterings via Vic at the OSC and the AB/Rob Angus...it'll either be as clear as mud or very vague in what is actually going to be done. It wouldn't surprise if the PR excuse will be something like:

''With us focussing on purchasing and redeveloping the stadium, which will be an exciting and new era for Swindon Town FC, our expectations and targets on the pitch will be slightly different to previous seasons. We believe it's important to make this step and so this means there will be a much smaller squad in the forthcoming season. With exciting prospects arriving from Pakistan and using club connections we will still focus on a data driven model of developing emerging talent and playing an exciting brand of football not commonly seen by many teams in League Two. With this approach we will convince and entice the future stars of tomorrow to come and train during the summer, with open trials held at Beversbrook. This is a fantastic opportunity for anyone to prove that they have what it takes to be a professional footballer regardless of their background. Xav/Zav will have just returned from Karachi and will be involved in selecting the best of the best from this initiative. Swindon Town FC will look to sign 5 players via this method to compliment the completion of next season's squad.

With all these exciting projects happening at Town, right now is the perfect time to buy your season ticket as the joint venture nears completion, everyone can be proud to support STFC and truly beam with energy that they have finally got their club back.

Once again, thanks for deferring your season ticket refunds and we can't wait to see you pay over the odds for the forthcoming season

Come On Your Tits

Clem Formuni''

===

Yeah, Town fans will 'have our club back' (again) but will likely be a phoenix club playing in the fucking Vanarama South.

Joy.

Division.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, March 20, 2023, 00:01:48
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?

To be fair Aud, Town Power somehow got money for James Brophy, so maybe Town can do a charm offensive, offer a really good bulk deal and convince Crawley to take about 6 of them into the Conference with them?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pookemon on Monday, March 20, 2023, 06:42:57
Anyone know who had the biggest budget in league 2 and where we sat🤔
Impossible to know for this season but at a guess I'd say Salford as they are losing £100k per week.   Stockport will be up there too.

We are probably 6th-10th based on comments by Clem and Rob about being competitive but not top end.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 08:56:58
I think a rebuild/rethink/reset is required both on and off the pitch. Whereas last season, when Clem came in and we put together a squad of players, it appeared (for the most part) that everyone was moving in the right direction culminating in getting into the play-offs and being a penalty kick away from Wembley. The fans and players seemed to be aligned and there was a real belief that we could really kick on with what we had built and put together a really good crack at promotion.

Sadly, since Garner and then Chorley left, what was started last season was ripped up and whilst apparently we were putting some cohesive plan together, everything we seemed to do was a bit of a 'punt'. The Sandro moneyball thing sounded 'interesting' and 'odd' in equal measures and installing what was in the end a poor managerial team, (taking much longer than any club really should) as well as losing the crux of last season's play-off squad and replacing them poorly, or in some cases in January, not at all meant that this season has been really poor.

I'm hoping that the fact that Clem is still in England and has been for a while means there are plans in place to overhaul the football side of the club, both behind the scenes and on the pitch. The fact that Jody Morris and Ed Brand have agreed to the job suggests things are not a complete disaster, but the fact of the matter is that the goodwill of last season has almost completely evaporated. It's obvious there is malcontent in the fanbase and i've seen many people saying they are not renewing season tickets next season. This will hit the club hard financially. Whereas last season there was a connection between fans and players, I don't see that this season, there is nothing to get excited about with this side.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:29:49
The fact we couldn't beat Walsall who had not won in 11 and Rochdale who had won one in their last 11, says it all.
Set up to be our worst league finish since I've been going.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: joeydubya on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:41:09
Part of our problem last season was we let players dilly dally over our offers for too long.
Felt like Jack Payne took about 3 months to turn us down.
Plus from all accounts we didnít even get down to contract talks till the end of our season late May.

Get the ball rolling earlier

We is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, we took weeks to recruit the assistant manager and when it was starting to sour, we took the compo and another age to recruit someone in when it was too late to do much in the window - and had a bit of a fire sale before he got there. So i'm not sure it was dilly dallying - probably waiting for something resembling an appropriate offer.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:43:08
I think one of the most important signings the club could make this summer is adding some experience to the boardroom. Someone like Mark Devlin, who has been around the block at every level. Rob Angus could shadow and learn from him, and it can only help, as we have showed a lot of inexperience with regards to the running of a football club these last 18 months.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: joeydubya on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:44:22
I'm hoping that the fact that Clem is still in England and has been for a while means there are plans in place to overhaul the football side of the club, both behind the scenes and on the pitch. The fact that Jody Morris and Ed Brand have agreed to the job suggests things are not a complete disaster, but the fact of the matter is that the goodwill of last season has almost completely evaporated. It's obvious there is malcontent in the fanbase and i've seen many people saying they are not renewing season tickets next season. This will hit the club hard financially. Whereas last season there was a connection between fans and players, I don't see that this season, there is nothing to get excited about with this side.

Mr Morfuni needs to wake up fast and realise 9k + gates are a rare thing and not a given - if he doesn't act and capitalise on that goodwill, it will set us back more decades.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: THE FLASH on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:47:35
We is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, we took weeks to recruit the assistant manager and when it was starting to sour, we took the compo and another age to recruit someone in when it was too late to do much in the window - and had a bit of a fire sale before he got there. So i'm not sure it was dilly dallying - probably waiting for something resembling an appropriate offer.

We always take too long to do anything.

keeping the players we want to keep, signing new ones, Lindsey appointment as we were mugged off with the 'obvious choice' quote took too long, even pre season friendlies arent organised very well.

The goodwill has gone and blind loyal fans like me are not in the majority for next season.

Club has shot itself in the foot twice this season.  Its a fucking shame.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:03:36
^ see you Saturday  :D


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:34:07
Assuming this is accurate from the squad list thread, these are the list of players under contract for next season and beyond FYI.

GK - None

Defenders
2. Remeao Hutton - 2024 - 23 - D/WBR
4. Tom Clayton - 2024 - 21 - DC
18. Reece Devine - 2024 - 20 - D/WBL
20. Frazer Blake-Tracy - 2024 - 26 - DLC

Midfielders
3. Ellis Iandolo - 2024 - 24
5. George McEachran - 2023 (2024 option) - 21 - MC
10. Ronan Darcy - 2024 - 21 - MC
16. Jake Cain - 2025 - 20 - MC
17. Ricky Aguiar - 2025 - 21 - MC
23. Saidou Khan - 2024 - 26 - MC

Forwards
9. Tomi Adeloye - 2024 - 26 - ST
24. Jacob Wakeling - 2026 - 20 - ST
28. Tyrese Shade - 2024 - 22 - FRL

Obviously we will be offering other players new contracts but it gives an idea of who is likely to be around next season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:37:00
Assuming this is accurate from the squad list thread, these are the list of players under contract for next season and beyond FYI.

I've tried to keep that list up to date, the only three that have never publicly been spoken about are Brann, Lavinier & Roberts. I should imagine Roberts at least has another year.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:43:13
I've tried to keep that list up to date, the only three that have never publicly been spoken about are Brann, Lavinier & Roberts. I should imagine Roberts at least has another year.

Yeah, noted Nemo. I think your list is pretty accurate, as you say there are unknowns but at least it gives us an idea of the kind of players we are likely to have next season. I think you are probably right about Roberts and I suspect Lavinier might have an option, but we don't know.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: JoeMezz on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:50:47
I thought Lavinier was a three-year deal.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:59:00
Assuming this is accurate from the squad list thread, these are the list of players under contract for next season and beyond FYI.

GK - None

Defenders
2. Remeao Hutton - 2024 - 23 - D/WBR
4. Tom Clayton - 2024 - 21 - DC
18. Reece Devine - 2024 - 20 - D/WBL
20. Frazer Blake-Tracy - 2024 - 26 - DLC

Midfielders
3. Ellis Iandolo - 2024 - 24
5. George McEachran - 2023 (2024 option) - 21 - MC
10. Ronan Darcy - 2024 - 21 - MC
16. Jake Cain - 2025 - 20 - MC
17. Ricky Aguiar - 2025 - 21 - MC
23. Saidou Khan - 2024 - 26 - MC

Forwards
9. Tomi Adeloye - 2024 - 26 - ST
24. Jacob Wakeling - 2026 - 20 - ST
28. Tyrese Shade - 2024 - 22 - FRL

Obviously we will be offering other players new contracts but it gives an idea of who is likely to be around next season.
I reckon a few of the 2 year deals will be options for a second year, not pure 2 year deals. Weíd be stupid giving guaranteed 2 year deals to punts but then again we havenít exactly shown much footballing intelligence this season.

Otherwise we really need find a way to offload Adeloye & Aguiar as a minimum as they just arenít going to get game time if we are looking to challenge.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:06:00
Iíd actually like to see Adeloye get some game time between now and the end of the season.
Most have written him off but heís hardly been given a chance. Iíd rather see him on the pitch than Jephcott who almost certainly wonít be here next season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:09:02
Iíd actually like to see Adeloye get some game time between now and the end of the season.
Most have written him off but heís hardly been given a chance. Iíd rather see him on the pitch than Jephcott who almost certainly wonít be here next season.

It's not a bad point at all, at the very least gets him in the shop window for a summer move.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:22:02
The fact that Jody Morris and Ed Brand have agreed to the job suggests things are not a complete disaster,

I think its obviously the case that something has been aid to them to agree to come here, but its worth bearing in mind that as it stands Morris's win % here is way worse than SL's was (despite it being broadly agreed that he has bought in a few players better than we had before), plus rather frighteningly considering all the gloating about it, SL's win rate at Crawley is better than Morris's is here.

Morris undoubtedly needs time, but bizarrely he ain't doing as well with the same tools SL had.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:24:20
Iíd actually like to see Adeloye get some game time between now and the end of the season.
Most have written him off but heís hardly been given a chance. Iíd rather see him on the pitch than Jephcott who almost certainly wonít be here next season.
If we play with Charlie as a (eefectivly) lone striker in a 433/451 formation then I would like to see Adeloye come off the bench for Charlie after the usual 70th minute to get him at least some game time, there may be a player in there (I remain unconvinced myself) but at bare minimum he will be in the shop window.

Of the OOC players and borderline ones, ignoring FBT, Clayton, Wakeling, Cain and hopefully extending Austin for another year.

I would offload Aguiar as he really hasn't kicked on this season and had poor loan at Torquay.

We have much dead wood in this squad, I would almost start afresh barring a few players. There will be a large turnover of players this Summer.

I would try and sign McEachran, Lavinier, Brewitt and Tomlinson as priority.

I also still think there is a player in Shade somewhere but it will take a good manager to get the best out of him. Similar with RHM shows some great touches and pace but needs to work on his final ball, very similarl to Shade. Both would be handy impact subs.

Personally I would like to see us extend Williams contract but fear he will leave us for higher wages, probably to Wrexham I would think.

Hutton has had some great games but way more poor and if a team in L1 want to sign him for a fee then I would let him go, hes not consistant enough and since deadline day he has been pretty poor in 90% of games. Lavinier is a ready made replacement.

Keep Khan as despite his hot headedness at times hes a decent player certainly for league 2.

Release Iandolo, Harries, Baudry, Darcy, Aguiar, Adeloye, Parsons, Massey and Dabre.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:41:24
If we play with Charlie as a (eefectivly) lone striker in a 433/451 formation then I would like to see Adeloye come off the bench for Charlie after the usual 70th minute to get him at least some game time, there may be a player in there (I remain unconvinced myself) but at bare minimum he will be in the shop window.

Of the OOC players and borderline ones, ignoring FBT, Clayton, Wakeling, Cain and hopefully extending Austin for another year.

I would offload Aguiar as he really hasn't kicked on this season and had poor loan at Torquay.

We have much dead wood in this squad, I would almost start afresh barring a few players. There will be a large turnover of players this Summer.

I would try and sign McEachran, Lavinier, Brewitt and Tomlinson as priority.

I also still think there is a player in Shade somewhere but it will take a good manager to get the best out of him. Similar with RHM shows some great touches and pace but needs to work on his final ball, very similarl to Shade. Both would be handy impact subs.

Personally I would like to see us extend Williams contract but fear he will leave us for higher wages, probably to Wrexham I would think.

Hutton has had some great games but way more poor and if a team in L1 want to sign him for a fee then I would let him go, hes not consistant enough and since deadline day he has been pretty poor in 90% of games. Lavinier is a ready made replacement.

Keep Khan as despite his hot headedness at times hes a decent player certainly for league 2.

Release Iandolo, Harries, Baudry, Darcy, Aguiar, Adeloye, Parsons, Massey and Dabre.

Agree with pretty much all of this, the one glaring thing when you consider the 'model' is that have any of the young players (either at the club before last summer or brought in to develop) actually improved or kicked on over the last 9-12 months, if anything they show promise but then seem to get shitter. Now that may be down to some of them being pushed into 1st team and lots of games too soon, but if not how are they going to improve anyway, we don't have stiffs any more so its a rare behind closed doors friendly at best and we don't appear to have any sort of structured arrangements with local non league clubs, so the loans always seem incredibly haphazard and has a player had a decent loan spell anywhere, and come back better or more ready for 1st team, since Twine at Newport?

Add into the equation we seem to be extremely susceptible to injuries. I am not really sure what is going on behind the scenes?


I'd rather Clem put his head above the parapet, lead a press conference like an actual owner and lay down what changes he's going to implement.


Do owners lead press conferences? I can't think of any owners who are particularly vocal bar the ones who spout self promoting shite and love the sound of their own voice (So that guy from Peterborough and perhaps Vince?)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:51:22
Add into the equation we seem to be extremely susceptible to injuries. I am not really sure what is going on behind the scenes?
This part does concern me a lot.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:58:00

Do owners lead press conferences? I can't think of any owners who are particularly vocal bar the ones who spout self promoting shite and love the sound of their own voice (So that guy from Peterborough and perhaps Vince?)

Clem is painfully shy, he ain't going to be leading press conferences.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:58:51
From what Iíve heard Clem wants to model us on what Brentford have done, the problem we have is that works if you can sell players for high(ish) fees, and that doesnít seem to work in L2.

What we need to do is build a team/squad to get us out of this league first and then get established in league 1 first


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:39:43
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:45:38
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.
We, currently, would accept that, buy a player for cheap and sell him on for a nice profit, we have ALWAYS done this.

But these decent players can only really perform consistantly in a decent performing team that brings the best out of them which often comes with a few more experienced heads to guide them.

The failing point of the format though is that when you have an entire team of youngsters that are underperforming so you end with the worst of both worlds.

No quality on the pitch and a team full of unsaleable players who will just be released for free from a team in the lower reaches of the football league and near the bottom of the table, no club would want to buy them for money.

Pretty much where we are now.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:54:13
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.

I look at it like a sliding scale.

You donít 100% go for punts to develop. Similarly you go the other way and sign 100% experienced pros.

Like this season feels a bit 80/20 when maybe it should have been closer to 60/40.
Then as the older more experienced 40% move on. The 60% with some games under their belt move up  (and get trimmed down) to be the 40% and you intake 60% again.

Or even split it squad wise in 3. So you have 33% experienced pros at or close to their peak with no resale value. 33% early 20s with 50-100 games under their belt who we are trying to improve and 33% teenagers with no experience we are looking to develop and slowly phase in.

For example, unlike most - I still think there is a player in Darcy but feel heís ended up being over used in what is pretty much his first full season. Weíve also chopped and changed formation so much heís played in a variety of different positions which probably hasnít helped.

If for example him and Williams had played their role similar to Williams and Gladwin did last season maybe heíd look a bit better for the slow build.

Flip side is, Wakeling has looked decent for the most part. Would he have looked as good playing bit parts.

Some players need blooding slowly and some donít I guess. However, for a few reasons I donít think weíve been in a position or chosen to look how to blood each younger player specifically


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: ChalkyWhiteIsGod on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:59:55
FBT, Clayton, Austin, Tomlinson, McEachran, Brynn do everything we can to keep.

Would also like to keep Brewitt, think Cain potentially could be a good player in there but not shown it yet. Wakeling is here anyway and definitely shown he can perform.

Most of the rest are either obvious release/let gos or there are issues there (Khan discipline. Lavinier injuries, etc.)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:00:09
From what Iíve heard Clem wants to model us on what Brentford have done, the problem we have is that works if you can sell players for high(ish) fees, and that doesnít seem to work in L2.

What we need to do is build a team/squad to get us out of this league first and then get established in league 1 first

Brentford is the model, or the latest successful example of it.

The model is not the problem. Sure you can make bigger margins on players in higher leagues, thats obvious.

The model can work in league 2 as well. Too many of our fans blame the model and not its implementation. Its possible to build a squad to get of of this league and stick to the model. The model doesn't mean every player has to be under 25, it just means if you are going to invest in players (non loans) then you need to treat that as an asset that can gain value and not depreciate. Experienced players can meet that criteria, Gladwin signed on a free and was sold for something right?

This seasons failure is down to two things. 1) Appointing Lindsey when he clearly wasn't the best choice. 2) The recruitment which sits largely with Sandro but also with Lindsey has hard far too many misses to be considered good enough. Chorley/Garner did a much better job at the same thing the year before, in much tougher circumstances, and that just shows how shit Sandro/Lindsey were. The connections of Chorley/Garner and their knowledge did us very with a small squad.

Running a sustainable club that looks to sell players and reinvest is the way forward. Sure we would all love the investment to come first, and then hope you can make money from the players afterward but that's not the way this works.

In this model the two most important people are director of football and head coach. I think Morris has something, though i would have picked Artell. Sandro has shown fuck all though, and had Clem not signed Austin ( a worrying precedent to overrule your head football guy) we would be proper fucked at the moment.

Replace Sandro asap and lets start moving forward.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:00:46
This part does concern me a lot.
I think it's more the style of how Morris wants them to press


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:08:58
I think it's more the style of how Morris wants them to press
The thing is mate we have had a metric shit ton of injuries all season its not just since Morris has been with us.

I would think we have had more players out injured this season than ever in my 50 years of following Swindon, almost every player at some point barring Hutton, Brynn and possibly Wakeling have suffered injuries of over several weeks out.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:44:49
I think it's more the style of how Morris wants them to press

But again, if they are not capable of playing that way and its just going to cause injury and squad chaos, then stop playing that way. Much as with the formation, Morris needs to play to what he has, not what he desires to do, this season at least.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:53:40
But again, if they are not capable of playing that way and its just going to cause injury and squad chaos, then stop playing that way. Much as with the formation, Morris needs to play to what he has, not what he desires to do, this season at least.
But if heís got the same opinion of the squad as us then heís probably given up in his own mind this season and wants to see which players can play his Ďstyleí next season. Need to be thinking next season now.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, March 20, 2023, 14:09:21
If youíve got Charlie Austin in your squad then you donít get him to press.

Thatís just stupid management.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Monday, March 20, 2023, 14:10:59
If youíve got Charlie Austin in your squad then you donít get him to press.

Thatís just stupid management.
In his defence he doesn't but that's when he ends up playing deep


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:10:07
Just like Harry Kane does!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:18:11
But if heís got the same opinion of the squad as us then heís probably given up in his own mind this season and wants to see which players can play his Ďstyleí next season. Need to be thinking next season now.

To come in and take over a team in 6th place and after 9 games basically give up on the season doesn't show him in a particularly positive light does it.....


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Berniman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:27:44
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.

I just posted this in the other thread but it kind of sums up my views on this..

I don't think the moneyball model should be completely disgarded either, i believe it is the right model to follow just in a completley different way to the way we approached it.

Bring in the right people to implement it, gradually over the next 5 years.  Brighton/Brentford didn't try to do it all in the first season, which is pretty much what we tried to do.  Just throwing it out now after 8-10 months of trying is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  If you implement say 20% of your player recruitment with that model in mind in year 1 and slowly increase over time, whilst still having the flexibility to bend the model when required, i believe the end result will be much more successful.

Key to this though is having the right people to implement it, backed up with some "football people" as part of the operating model.

I get that everyone seems to have been burnt by this experience and would prefer to bin it off and go back to the ways of before, but let's face it, we didn't do a brilliant job at that either, otherwise we would be in the Championship now.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Monday, March 20, 2023, 20:08:32
Lots of good comments on why the season has been a failure and what needs to change

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etQR_LwdrlA


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, March 20, 2023, 22:25:32
To come in and take over a team in 6th place and after 9 games basically give up on the season doesn't show him in a particularly positive light does it.....
But he wouldnít have known theyíd be quite as poor as they were and probably thought he could make it work once he got them fit. But now it hasnít worked the rest of this season is nothing more than preparation for next season so he needs to get the players that will be here next season drilled into his way of playing and the rest of the players are irrelevant and will just make up the numbers.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 07:37:36
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.

I'm not up on Brentford's history but I think this has something to do with us starting the experiment at what is statistically one of the lowest ebbs in most fans' lifetimes. Patience is thin. Similarly, everyone bought into last year's team only for us to take a sharp left turn. I think a gradual implementation of this plan would have carried more fans along with it.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pookemon on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:21:57
I'm not up on Brentford's history but I think this has something to do with us starting the experiment at what is statistically one of the lowest ebbs in most fans' lifetimes. Patience is thin. Similarly, everyone bought into last year's team only for us to take a sharp left turn. I think a gradual implementation of this plan would have carried more fans along with it.
Matthew Benham at Brentford invested millions onto the playing budget to get them into the championship.   They didn't run sustainably like we are trying to - not that I'm against that ambition.

Clem has invested millions too, but almost entirely to clear debt and doesn't have bottomless pockets like other owners to run at a £1m+ loss every year.

Tony Bloom at Brighton invested over £100m to get them where they are now

Both Brentford and Brighton have spent the money wisely and run their clubs well but it wouldn't have succeeded without the initial cash boost.   You almost certainly need both and a lot of luck to do what they have done.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:26:24
Matthew Benham at Brentford invested millions onto the playing budget to get them into the championship.   They didn't run sustainably like we are trying to - not that I'm against that ambition.

Clem has invested millions too, but almost entirely to clear debt and doesn't have bottomless pockets like other owners to run at a £1m+ loss every year.

Tony Bloom at Brighton invested over £100m to get them where they are now

Both have spent the money wisely and run their clubs well but it wasn't just spreadsheet recruitment that got them both to the promised land.

Yes, I personally think the Brentford comparison is completely ridiculous for the reasons you say. But I was attempting to answer the question on the fans' patience with the 'project' or lack thereof.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pookemon on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:31:00
Yes, I personally think the Brentford comparison is completely ridiculous for the reasons you say. But I was attempting to answer the question on the fans' patience with the 'project' or lack thereof.
A lack of improvement will foster that belief.   We have seen none on or off the pitch this season other than a fantastic balance sheet- which is great - and the stadium purchase, which hasn't yet happened so not tangible or visible to the average punter.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: derbystfc on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 09:06:12
We don't have the funds to do a Brighton/Brentford philosophy right away, and we also want to get out of this league, some would argue that it's crucial we get out of the league.

Now I wouldn't entirely scrap the money ball direction either.

Get a team that's going to compete in this league, that's first priority.

Get the right people in (with experience and know how) to look at implementing money ball philosophy, 2nd Priority. also work on the infrastructure.

Start to build the squad with 'Moneyball' type signings, 3rd Priority

Replace old fashioned style squad with more money ball signings when the system is fully in place

It's a slow rebuild I know.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 15:36:34
 :hmmm:
We don't have the funds to do a Brighton/Brentford philosophy right away, and we also want to get out of this league, some would argue that it's crucial we get out of the league.

Now I wouldn't entirely scrap the money ball direction either.

Get a team that's going to compete in this league, that's first priority.

Get the right people in (with experience and know how) to look at implementing money ball philosophy, 2nd Priority. also work on the infrastructure.

Start to build the squad with 'Moneyball' type signings, 3rd Priority

Replace old fashioned style squad with more money ball signings when the system is fully in place

It's a slow rebuild I know.

Good post😀
No we don't have the funds to compete with a Brighton/Brentford but questions should be asked how we can't compete with the likes of Accrington, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Burton,  Exeter, FGR, Fleetwood, Morecambe, Oxford, Peterborough, Shrewsbury & Wycombe plus a few others as they can't all have super wealthy owners.

Look at Stevenage last season, almost went out of the football league then employed a manager who knows lower league football and near on certain to gain promotion. Would it have been pretty football no but he more than likely would have got us out of leagues 2 which is the ultimate aim then we could have looked at moneyball signings in league one.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: derbystfc on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 15:46:26
:hmmm:
Good post😀
No we don't have the funds to compete with a Brighton/Brentford but questions should be asked how we can't compete with the likes of Accrington, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Burton,  Exeter, FGR, Fleetwood, Morecambe, Oxford, Peterborough, Shrewsbury & Wycombe plus a few others as they can't all have super wealthy owners.

Look at Stevenage last season, almost went out of the football league then employed a manager who knows lower league football and near on certain to gain promotion. Would it have been pretty football no but he more than likely would have got us out of leagues 2 which is the ultimate aim then we could have looked at moneyball signings in league one.

You have pretty much regurgitated what I said


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: JoeMezz on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 15:52:11
As others have said, the 'moneyball' philosophy isn't necessarily wrong, just our approach on it has been. We've been too money-ball and have too high a % of players in the squad as 'players to develop.' Players will develop more by playing well and winning games than making mistakes and conceding crap goals (knocking confidence by not winning games).

The spine of the team is missing - regardless of developing talent, every good team has a big physical centre half, a ball-winning experienced midfielder and a striker who can put the ball in the back of the net. We have 1 out of the 3. Even the GK I'm not too convinced on - excellent shot stopper but how many of the corners that we've conceded have been free headers within the 6-yard box? Perhaps it wouldn't be as exposed if we had an Aidan Flint type centre half who wins the header at every corner, but some blame has to be portioned on Brynn IMO.

The frustrating thing is that there is clearly young talent in the squad (Clayton, Lavinier, Hutton, McEachran, Wakeling, Shade to an extent, Hepburn-Murphy), but they don't have the wise experienced heads to help them develop and help them to see out games. I don't think we're too many players short from having a promotion-capable squad, the issue is that the 4-5 that we need would be high-earners that the club clearly doesn't want to fund.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 15:59:03
You have pretty much regurgitated what I said

With more content😀


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 16:08:09
With more content😀

Carrot chunks?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 16:10:04
Carrot chunks?

They make you see in the dark!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 16:24:44
Good explanation about the goals conceded from corners recently - Morris has previous!

https://www.totalswindon.com/sport/why-are-swindon-town-conceding-from-so-many-corners/


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 16:38:29
Quote
Whilst many have said that the zonal marking is the issue, marking zonally is a good way of mitigating against having a smaller team as you get rid of one-v-one matchups

By replacing them with one-v-noone?!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 17:04:09
Zonal marking may work for more experienced players but we're very good at leaving spaces for opposition players to move into unchallenged!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 19:39:09
By replacing them with one-v-noone?!

Yeah, what horseshit.

We have a small team so rather than going 1 v 1 - we will stand in a line and not only leave the bigger players free but give them a chance to get a running start into the box whilst we stand there like lemons.

Even if itís 5ft 6 player v a 6ft 6 player - youíve just got more chance of stopping him scoring by marking him - just be getting inthe way, putting him off, standing on his toes - or just giving him something extra to think about. If heís being man marked heís thinking about his own movement to try and lose his marker whilst also trying to concentrate on the ball coming in.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pericardinho on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 10:31:34
Yeah, what horseshit.

We have a small team so rather than going 1 v 1 - we will stand in a line and not only leave the bigger players free but give them a chance to get a running start into the box whilst we stand there like lemons.

Even if itís 5ft 6 player v a 6ft 6 player - youíve just got more chance of stopping him scoring by marking him - just be getting inthe way, putting him off, standing on his toes - or just giving him something extra to think about. If heís being man marked heís thinking about his own movement to try and lose his marker whilst also trying to concentrate on the ball coming in.

This.

You don't need to win the header. Just put them off enough so that it's not a clean contact. Will have to be something pretty special to score in that scenario. Unlike the gifts we've been giving.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 10:36:24
Also, having blokes properly on the post. The 4th Rochdale goal and 2nd Carlisle goal are likely prevented if there is someone there doing a job.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 10:47:50
Interesting article about defending set pieces here and the dying art of defending posts and man marking etc.

https://thesetpieces.com/latest-posts/dying-art-sticking-man-posts/


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: ChalkyWhiteIsGod on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 12:18:46
Yeah, what horseshit.

We have a small team so rather than going 1 v 1 - we will stand in a line and not only leave the bigger players free but give them a chance to get a running start into the box whilst we stand there like lemons.

Even if itís 5ft 6 player v a 6ft 6 player - youíve just got more chance of stopping him scoring by marking him - just be getting inthe way, putting him off, standing on his toes - or just giving him something extra to think about. If heís being man marked heís thinking about his own movement to try and lose his marker whilst also trying to concentrate on the ball coming in.

Agree.

Anyway zones don't score goals, players do.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Berniman on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 13:27:12
Agree.

Anyway zones don't score goals, players do.

A bit like guns and rappers..


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: TheDukeOfBanbury on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 15:49:26
Watched Bannon sweep the ball in last night for Wednesday and they had the likes of Flint, Gregory and Smith all running on mass to the 6 yard box.
Know a few Owls fans who are comfortable with the style of play as they want out of League One.
They have assembled a side equipped to bully their way out of it and still reckon they will win their respective league this season.

My point being we would not stand a chance against their system. Barnsley were equally a big dominant side. Watching that was brutal football.

I was standing in the Orient Supporters Club a few weeks back and one of their fans came in after the Swindon team coach pulled up, along the lines of. ďBloody hell they are a team of kids, never seen such a young and small looking team.Ē



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 15:56:14
Watched Bannon sweep the ball in last night for Wednesday and they had the likes of Flint, Gregory and Smith all running on mass to the 6 yard box.
Know a few Owls fans who are comfortable with the style of play as they want out of League One.
They have assembled a side equipped to bully their way out of it and still reckon they will win their respective league this season.

My point being we would not stand a chance against their system. Barnsley were equally a big dominant side. Watching that was brutal football.

I was standing in the Orient Supporters Club a few weeks back and one of their fans came in after the Swindon team coach pulled up, along the lines of. ďBloody hell they are a team of kids, never seen such a young and small looking team.Ē



If Clem dosen't wake up and smell the coffee and continues to let Sandro use his spreadsheet for signings we ain't getting out of league 2 anytime soon.  


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: TheDukeOfBanbury on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 17:12:18
If Clem dosen't wake up and smell the coffee and continues to let Sandro use his spreadsheet for signings we ain't getting out of league 2 anytime soon. 

100% spot on.
Can only wait now until the close season and see how we prepare for it.
Not suggesting we do the complete U Turn and become a long ball and direct side, far from it. However we need to address the fact that we get bullied and outmuscled by this league two garbage.

What a chance we have missed this season. Shambles.
Next season is going to be an even tougher challenge with those coming up and those going down.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Matchworn Shirts on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 17:51:58
If Clem dosen't wake up and smell the coffee and continues to let Sandro use his spreadsheet for signings we ain't getting out of league 2 anytime soon. 

Hopefully he doesn't let him do the financial reports in excel either


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 18:24:37
Quote from: Jimmy QuitMoaning
If Clem dosen't wake up and smell the coffee and continues to let Sandro use his spreadsheet for signings we ain't getting out of league 2 anytime soon.  

We actually might..

from LSP:
Quote
Assessing recruitment 🤔

When the Matchday 18 features at least 5 players here last year (which has happened 20 times), #stfc average 1.7ppg

76 points over a full season - play off form

When it hasnít (16 games), ppg falls to 1.1

52 points over a season - relegation form
[/quote/]


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pericardinho on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 18:40:14
100% spot on.
Can only wait now until the close season and see how we prepare for it.
Not suggesting we do the complete U Turn and become a long ball and direct side, far from it. However we need to address the fact that we get bullied and outmuscled by this league two garbage.

What a chance we have missed this season. Shambles.
Next season is going to be an even tougher challenge with those coming up and those going down.

Hmm. The current bottom 4 in league one I wouldn't be particularly worried about. All clubs that have been punching above their weight and may struggle in league 2 next season.

But yes, the likes of Wrexham and Notts County coming up will certainly be a problem.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 19:22:41
We actually might..

from LSP:
Quote
Assessing recruitment 🤔

When the Matchday 18 features at least 5 players here last year (which has happened 20 times), #stfc average 1.7ppg

76 points over a full season - play off form

When it hasnít (16 games), ppg falls to 1.1

52 points over a season - relegation form
[/quote/]

Be interesting to see how that breaks down into actual minutes played because being in the 18 doesnít mean you necessarily have any impact on the game.

Just as an example Reed spent a lot of time on the bench but from memory didnít come on a lot and when he did it was 10-15 minutes at most but would obviously count in the 5.
I assume Aguiar has kept our bench warm at times without getting on the pitch too. Just like that Ď5 in the match day 18í suddenly becomes Ď3 who actually playedí

Itís also safe to assume those stats include the few games Harry McKirdy played (obviously) and he was a big loss for us.






Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 19:27:01
it's a fair point DV.

it's also fair to say without the (Lindsay) spell up to Mansfield we'd be a tad worried.

while there are some mitigating circumstances, 2 wins from 10 is pathetic


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, 21:11:47
it's a fair point DV.

it's also fair to say without the (Lindsay) spell up to Mansfield we'd be a tad worried.

while there are some mitigating circumstances, 2 wins from 10 is pathetic

Yeah, stats can be manipulated to look certain ways. Like that implies we do better with last seasons player, ok. Who from last season has been playing well? Williams in patches. Gladwin start the season wellÖ.then who? You get to Reed & Iandolo
Önot just the result. The manor of them arenít great imo.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 09:53:59
Ah well, academic now. We aren't going down or up.

Onto next season and the hope we can do better than 2 wins from 10 with whoever we bring in


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 10:29:42
Building on those LSPod stats bit again, here is the points per game for individual players when they start the game. L2 only, five games minimum. 22 players meet the qualifying standard, I'll give the top and bottom five:

Top Five:

Angus MacDonald 1.63
Tom Clayton 1.61
Saidou Khan 1.60
Ronan Darcy 1.60
Mathieu Baudry 1.57

Bottom Five:

Jake Cain 1.20
Charlie Austin 1.20
Harry McKirdy 1.20
Ciaran Brennan 1.21
Ellis Iandolo 1.22


Not really sure that tells us anything. Perhaps that a settled defence is more important at this level than a great goalscorer? Interesting nonetheless though.

Because I have nothing better to do, if you include sub appearances our top two are Ricky Aguiar (1.88!) and Tyrese Shade (1.69) and the bottom two Dylan Kadji (0.83) and Harrison Minturn (0.8 ).


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 10:37:40
Building on those LSPod stats bit again, here is the points per game for individual players when they start the game. L2 only, five games minimum. 22 players meet the qualifying standard, I'll give the top and bottom five:

Top Five:

Angus MacDonald 1.63
Tom Clayton 1.61
Saidou Khan 1.60
Ronan Darcy 1.60
Mathieu Baudry 1.57

Bottom Five:

Jake Cain 1.20
Charlie Austin 1.20
Harry McKirdy 1.20
Ciaran Brennan 1.21
Ellis Iandolo 1.22


Not really sure that tells us anything. Perhaps that a settled defence is more important at this level than a great goalscorer? Interesting nonetheless though.

Because I have nothing better to do, if you include sub appearances our top two are Ricky Aguiar (1.88!) and Tyrese Shade (1.69) and the bottom two Dylan Kadji (0.83) and Harrison Minturn (0.8 ).

Not saying a word more about Angus MacDonald.

Interesting though that there is only one of last season players in the top 5 but two in the bottom 5 when you compare that with the LSP stats



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 10:48:50
Interesting though that there is only one of last season players in the top 5 but two in the bottom 5 when you compare that with the LSP stats

I think that probably just suggests that you can find a stat to back up just about any argument if you want to!

In terms of partnerships, our starting defensive partnerships by PPG:

Clayton/Baudry 2.25 (4 apps together)
Clayton/MacDonald 1.88 (8 apps together)
FBT/MacDonald 1.79 (14 apps together, some with FBT at LB)
Brennan/Clayton 1.67 (6 apps together)
FBT/Clayton 1.65 (17 apps together, some with FBT at LB)
MacDonald/Baudry 0.66 (3 apps together)

Generally that seems to lead to the stunning conclusion that one left footed CB and one right footed CB, one older and one younger performs well, whilst two of the same struggle a lot more.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 10:51:43
I think that probably just suggests that you can find a stat to back up just about any argument if you want to!

In terms of partnerships, our starting defensive partnerships by PPG:

Clayton/Baudry 2.25 (4 apps together)
Clayton/MacDonald 1.88 (8 apps together)
FBT/MacDonald 1.79 (14 apps together, some with FBT at LB)
Brennan/Clayton 1.67 (6 apps together)
FBT/Clayton 1.65 (17 apps together, some with FBT at LB)
MacDonald/Baudry 0.66 (3 apps together)

Generally that seems to lead to the stunning conclusion that one left footed CB and one right footed CB, one older and one younger performs well, whilst two of the same struggle a lot more.


Indeed.

Makes interesting reading either way (well it does for me anyway)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 10:55:45
Although I do love the odd anomaly thrown up due to lack of games.

I remember i did GPG for Simon Cox and various partners (to prove that Paynter wasnít a donkey) and Cox most prolific strike partner was Ibon Arrieta average two goals a game (I think) based on one JPT (as it was then) game against Brentford.

Just googled him and Ibon Arrieta currently manages Juventud Torremolinos


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 10:56:27
Top Five:

Angus MacDonald 1.63
Tom Clayton 1.61
Saidou Khan 1.60
Ronan Darcy 1.60
Mathieu Baudry 1.57

Bottom Five:

Jake Cain 1.20
Charlie Austin 1.20
Harry McKirdy 1.20
Ciaran Brennan 1.21
Ellis Iandolo 1.22

Not really sure that tells us anything.

One way of reading it is most of the bottom 5 were either involved in our shitty start, added after our shitty Jan. Iandolo hasn't looked match fit at all. Did Brennan come in after the Mansfield run?

I dunno, looks interesting but ..
 


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 11:00:43
One way of reading it is most of the bottom 5 were either involved in our shitty start, added after our shitty Jan. Iandolo hasn't looked match fit at all. Did Brennan come in after the Mansfield run?

I dunno, looks interesting but ..
 

Brennan has been here all season (although you might have meant into the starting XI)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 11:14:05
Brennan has been here all season (although you might have meant into the starting XI)

Yeah, starting 11.

He looked like he was going to be recalled in Jan through lack of game time


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: adje on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 11:27:15
100% spot on.
However we need to address the fact that we get bullied and outmuscled by this league two garbage.

What a chance we have missed this season. Shambles.
Next season is going to be an even tougher challenge with those coming up and those going down.
At least it might not be "garbage" next season then


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 12:21:08
Zonal marking may work for more experienced players but we're very good at leaving spaces for opposition players to move into unchallenged!

But what is being trained in PL academies these days, as many of our players are academy rejects and our manager has his basis in the same place it may be that the players have literally no experience of man marking at et pieces, albeit the way they play (at both ends) I am not sure they have any experience of set pieces full stop.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy HaveHave on Thursday, March 23, 2023, 15:32:20
But what is being trained in PL academies these days, as many of our players are academy rejects and our manager has his basis in the same place it may be that the players have literally no experience of man marking at et pieces, albeit the way they play (at both ends) I am not sure they have any experience of set pieces full stop.

Good point, they may not have much experience of set pieces at all which has to be a flaw in the way they have been coached which means they are having to start from scratch when they join a new club.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:29:42
I was trying to work out how many extra points we would have if Morris games finished in the 80th minute.

Sutton +3 points (85th and 88th min goals)
Carlisle +1 point (96th min goal)
Rochdale +2 points (94th min goal)
Stockport +1 point (80th min goal)
Hartlepool +3 points (88th and 94th min goals)

That is an extra 10 points in the last 9 games. We'd be two points outside the playoffs with a game in hand on Salford.

I'm still backing Morris but whilst the players should take a fair chunk of the blame, he has to look at his own game management, formations and instructions.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:39:58
I was trying to work out how many extra points we would have if Morris games finished in the 80th minute.

Sutton +3 points (85th and 88th min goals)
Carlisle +1 point (96th min goal)
Rochdale +2 points (94th min goal)
Stockport +1 point (80th min goal)
Hartlepool +3 points (88th and 94th min goals)

That is an extra 10 points in the last 9 games. We'd be two points outside the playoffs with a game in hand on Salford.

I'm still backing Morris but whilst the players should take a fair chunk of the blame, he has to look at his own game management, formations and instructions.


If youíre bored enough - how does that compare under Lindsey out of interest?

His pre season is getting stick from some for our fitness levels now and the late goals but I donít remember us being this vulnerable in the last 10 under Lindsey. Although fitness wise we were so slow and ponderous we probably didnít use any energy away + half our current team werenít here for pre-season. Brewitt, FBT, Tomlinson, McEacheran, Kadji, Cain, Jephcott, Lavinier, Austin. I think RHM was here but injured?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:44:34
I was trying to work out how many extra points we would have if Morris games finished in the 80th minute.

Sutton +3 points (85th and 88th min goals)
Carlisle +1 point (96th min goal)
Rochdale +2 points (94th min goal)
Stockport +1 point (80th min goal)
Hartlepool +3 points (88th and 94th min goals)

That is an extra 10 points in the last 9 games. We'd be two points outside the playoffs with a game in hand on Salford.

I'm still backing Morris but whilst the players should take a fair chunk of the blame, he has to look at his own game management, formations and instructions.

Which backs up, to some degree, my assertion that the players arenít crap. They just have next to zero game management experience. Donít know if that can be coached though.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:47:27
Stockport away +2 points (84th min goal)
Northampton home +1 point (88th min goal)
Walsall home +1 point (90 min goal)

Crawley we were 0-0 at 78 minutes. Lost 2-0.

Bradford away -1 point (we scored in the 90th min)

Must admit it was a very brief look.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:50:47
Stockport away +2 points (84th min goal)
Northampton home +1 point (88th min goal)
Walsall home +1 point (90 min goal)

Crawley we were 0-0 at 78 minutes. Lost 2-0.

Bradford away -1 point (we scored in the 90th min)

Must admit it was a very brief look.



Interesting. I don't remember that many late goals under him but there obviously were. On pitch game management has been shocking all season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:50:57
Which backs up, to some degree, my assertion that the players arenít crap. They just have next to zero game management experience. Donít know if that can be coached though.

I think some game management can be coached in but for itís such basic stuff in some cases that if they canít do it now - they never will. Itís literally school boy stuff.

Iím leaning towards less the Ďexperienceí being the missing ingredient and more so leadership. For example if Kadji is just jogging back and not near his man someone should be fucking screaming at him to get his man. That leadership doesnít necessarily come directly from experience but can do. Sometimes leaders are just leaders and followers are followers. Jerel Ifil was an experienced player but always need someone to talk him through gamesÖ


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:54:36
Same as 'Captain' Conroy. Needed Baudry there to get the best of him.

As I said on the Hartlepool thread, having observed them up close behind the goal at Hartlepool, compared to my normal elevated side view at Swindon, Brewitt is the only natural talker in this defence, with Austin probably the only other one in the side. This has long been a bugbear of mine at Swindon. MacDonald wasn't either. Olly Lancashire the most egregious example of a ghost captain in recent years (shudder).


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:56:54
Same as 'Captain' Conroy. Needed Baudry there to get the best of him.

As I said on the Hartlepool thread, having observed them up close behind the goal at Hartlepool, compared to my normal elevated side view at Swindon, Brewitt is the only natural talker in this defence, with Austin probably the only other one in the side. This has long been a bugbear of mine at Swindon. MacDonald wasn't either. Olly Lancashire the most egregious example of a ghost captain in recent years (shudder).

Yeah Conroy the same.

Whoíd have thought weíd be here in April suggesting that Baudry might actually be our biggest loss from last season - yet was the only one who agreed to stay!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 3, 2023, 07:59:00
ÖbutÖagain like Gladwin & Reed; we are calling him not being in the team a loss but he wasnít exactly pulling up any trees or playing at the top of his game before being injured.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:01:06
I think there was a suggestion somewhere that MacDonald being made captain over Baudry caused some dressing room upset. Might have been a factor.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: TheDukeOfBanbury on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:29:05
Same as 'Captain' Conroy. Needed Baudry there to get the best of him.

As I said on the Hartlepool thread, having observed them up close behind the goal at Hartlepool, compared to my normal elevated side view at Swindon, Brewitt is the only natural talker in this defence, with Austin probably the only other one in the side. This has long been a bugbear of mine at Swindon. MacDonald wasn't either. Olly Lancashire the most egregious example of a ghost captain in recent years (shudder).

I never think itís a case of a player needing another.
Conroy and Baudry played and developed under Wellens, they understood each other and trusted each other. Equally time allowed them to develop. Only downside was the injury issues.
Both of them staying fit at the end of last season helped get us to the play offs.

Nowhere near the stability now.
Ffs we are playing a left back central defence and a free contract player in the heart of the defence. No issues with both of them but piss poor thinking and planning.
Never replaced MacDonald, absolutely shocking.

The club piss me right off, absolute shambles.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pookemon on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:31:28
I was trying to work out how many extra points we would have if Morris games finished in the 80th minute.

Sutton +3 points (85th and 88th min goals)
Carlisle +1 point (96th min goal)
Rochdale +2 points (94th min goal)
Stockport +1 point (80th min goal)
Hartlepool +3 points (88th and 94th min goals)

That is an extra 10 points in the last 9 games. We'd be two points outside the playoffs with a game in hand on Salford.

I'm still backing Morris but whilst the players should take a fair chunk of the blame, he has to look at his own game management, formations and instructions.

How many after austin was subbed? Or is it just coincidence?     Harsh to include Stockport as we did well to keep it to nil playing with 10 men all game.

It's clearly a combination of character, physicality and experience.   We're also pretty shit on the counter and have no target man so just get deeper and deeper.  

 Yes Morris has to take a big chunk of the blame, but those problems have been there all season and you have to be ahead to drop points in the first place.

The damage was done in July and nothing that has been done on the pitch or behind the scenes has improved it.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:31:33
Iíve gone from very optimistic to down right fucked off in a short space of time. That said on the way back from the Easter Uni DNA run on Saturday afternoon we were discussing what has gone wrong, the where fors, whyís, whose to blame etc. Pretty much everything that has been posted on here was covered.

Collectively we feel the squad in a word is massively disjointed. There are some good players in there but they just donít or have not played together as a real cohesive team from the off. Flashes of promise and some decent results have masked the underlying problems that have manifested themselves to what we have now. Ok, thatís obvious I guess so who is to blame?

Iíll go back to halfway through this post. ĎCollectivelyí everyone from Clem to Lyndsey and Morris. Apportioning a % of the blame to any individual is very difficult. I just hope that they have learnt something and can work it out before a ball is kicked in anger next season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:34:01
Iím leaning towards less the Ďexperienceí being the missing ingredient and more so leadership. For example if Kadji is just jogging back and not near his man someone should be fucking screaming at him to get his man.

You also have to ask why players think performing like that is acceptable, now admittedly Kadji isn't playing for a contract here so doesn't need to impress the manager etc, but anyone scouting him for next season (or City for that matter) are going to notice that he is a lazy disinterested shit which will affect his future career.

The only game I have recently watched all the way through was the Walsall one and we were energetic first half but came out in the second like Morris had had them all on the Laudanum at half time so not sure how much of a motivator he is and Kadji's performance doesn't suggest that the players are particularly concerned about a bollocking, as for fitness I'm not sure after 7 months this can all be laid at the door of preseason.

Like everything else, its a mess.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: NotHarryAgombar on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:36:28
One reason we struggle late - apart possibly from physical and mental fatigue / lack of fitness - is that since January we canít keep the ball well enough - inexperienced players drop deeper / closer to their own box, hoof it upfield where we we have nobody who can hold onto it until support arrives, support is too far away, so it comes back again. Even against Orient away, I spent a large part of the first half shouting at the defence to set the line higher up the pitch, which to be fair , for most of the second half we did.
 The lack of someone able to do what Davison / Simpson did last year is real a problem impacting on this part of the game, and losing Reed and Gladwin in January have also worsened our ability to keep the ball.
Watching a couple of sides hold a 1 goal lead at the CG - itís bread and butter stuff, not rocket science - they use a target man to hold it up, work their way up the pitch and keep it in an attacking corner area. It sounds simple but watching us try to do it at home has at times been painful.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pookemon on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:41:46
Iíve gone from very optimistic to down right fucked off in a short space of time. That said on the way back from the Easter Uni DNA run on Saturday afternoon we were discussing what has gone wrong, the where fors, whyís, whose to blame etc. Pretty much everything that has been posted on here was covered.

Collectively we feel the squad in a word is massively disjointed. There are some good players in there but they just donít or have not played together as a real cohesive team from the off. Flashes of promise and some decent results have masked the underlying problems that have manifested themselves to what we have now. Ok, thatís obvious I guess so who is to blame?

Iíll go back to halfway through this post. ĎCollectivelyí everyone from Clem to Lyndsey and Morris. Apportioning a % of the blame to any individual is very difficult. I just hope that they have learnt something and can work it out before a ball is kicked in anger next season.
Ultimately it is 100% Clem.

He appointed the senior management team to run the club and rather than appoint an experienced, proven football person he hired a rookie technical director and a rookie football manager and gave them money to spend on a squad.

Needless to say they made mistakes.  

It's why penny pinching doesn't work, it may have cost him an extra £50k or so to get the experienced bloke in, but he wouldn't have spunked so much money a load of dross and lose a shit ton of revenue from a load of dead rubbers and fans giving up.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:44:20
Ultimately it is 100% Clem.

He appointed the senior management team to run the club and rather than appoint an experienced, proven football person he hired a rookie technical director and a rookie football manager and gave them money to spend on a squad.

Needless to say they made mistakes.  

It's why penny pinching doesn't work, it may have cost him an extra £50k or so to get the experienced bloke in, but he wouldn't have spunked so much money a load of dross and lose a shit ton of revenue from a load of dead rubbers and fans giving up.

Totally agree with that last point. Speculate to accumulate. The current 'model' sees us in a doom spiral of ever diminishing returns. Hard reset required...NOW!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pookemon on Monday, April 3, 2023, 08:56:07
Totally agree with that last point. Speculate to accumulate. The current 'model' sees us in a doom spiral of ever diminishing returns. Hard reset required...NOW!
It's not about speculating to accumulate as that infers a gamble.  It was actually not playing it safe that was the issue.

I fully expect that it happened because Clem wouldn't pay the going rate and/or the experienced people didn't agree with the strategy Clem wanted to follow.   It was a huge gamble that failed miserably.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 3, 2023, 09:00:01
It's not about speculating to accumulate as that infers a gamble.  It was actually not playing it safe that was the issue.

I fully expect that it happened because Clem wouldn't pay the going rate and/or the experienced people didn't agree with the strategy Clem wanted to follow.   It was a huge gamble that failed miserably.

Any job hire is a gamble, but yes, "invest in the foundations" might have been better wording than speculate to accumulate.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Monday, April 3, 2023, 09:02:55
Itís not just late goals, though. Again, without actually looking, we seem to go to pieces for 15 minutes after we concede and have ended up letting in 2 in a short space of time. Why do the players revert to Ďall piss and panicí mode so easily.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Monday, April 3, 2023, 09:11:00
A reminder of our lowest ever finish, 17th, 1983-84

                           P    W    D      L     F    A    GD  Pts
   Swindon Town   46   15   13   18   58   56   2    58

Current:
                            P    W    D     L     F    A    GD  Pts
   Swindon Town   38   13   12   13   50   45   5    51

I think we'll beat it (5 points is my huess), but the size of rebuild needed is massive!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, April 3, 2023, 09:40:58
A reminder of our lowest ever finish, 17th, 1983-84

                           P    W    D      L     F    A    GD  Pts
   Swindon Town   46   15   13   18   58   56   2    58

Current:
                            P    W    D     L     F    A    GD  Pts
   Swindon Town   38   13   12   13   50   45   5    51

I think we'll beat it (5 points is my huess), but the size of rebuild needed is massive!

83/84 wasnt just our worst finish it was our worst team and manager all in 1, just saying :)

Although I went to every game that season home and away and we were awful.

We had 3* sub 2,000 home attendances and on the verge of bankruptcy until the Lowndes Lambert sponsorship and the appointment of Macari at the end of that season turned us into a decent team.

Saying that we still had a 7-0 away win that season!

This season doesnt have the same feeling of utter despair as that season did, the only season we employed a manager (Beamish) who played anti football hoofball...until we appointed Flitcroft.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:02:01
At least it might not be "garbage" next season then


It's league 2, the basement of the football pyramid, it will always be 'garbage'.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:07:04

It's league 2, the basement of the football pyramid, it will always be 'garbage'.



I can cope with garbage, if you feel like you ďcanĒ win every week


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:21:06
I can cope with garbage, if you feel like you ďcanĒ win every week


Agree. The Wellens season and last season provided some great days out.

Even further back to the PDC season where we brought the league  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:25:18

Saying that we still had a 7-0 away win that season!


Don't forget the 13-0 home win over the US Airforce!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:36:19
All season long weíve had the habit of conceding late goals and conceding goals in quick succession. Itís obvious we lack leadership and experienced/game management savvy players.

That said some of our players are just plain spineless, the moment they come under any pressure in games they just fall apart, thatís probably why we look especially bad in the second half of matches. In the first half a lot of it is often spent with the 2 teams sizing each other up, in the second half however the opposition often come on to us more, especially if weíve scraped a first half lead. We have too many mentally weak players who donít want to know when the going gets tough.

We only really have Brewitt and FBT who are capable of making a tackle, the rest donít want to know and prefer to pretty much just run out of the way. This all needs to change or next season could be a disaster.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: UTR on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:47:44
Apologies if this has been covered previously but as we may lose him in the summer, what are peoples views on Williams?

No doubt that he has the talent to be one of the best players in the squad but does he show it enough to be annoyed if he was to depart in the summer, especially if heís wanting big bucks wages.

Not that I donít like him, in an ideal world Iíd like to keep him around but if those potential wages can be reinvested better elsewhere then maybe itís not the end of the world.

Looking at Leyton Orients squad, would he start for them regularly? Iím not sure but then again we currently lack enough quality to afford losing him so heavily dependent on if that would be replaced.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:53:58
Williams floating between a hard tackling midfielder and a target man striker would be dynamite in this league. He is brilliant on the ball. But he is currently operating in a sea of dross and being drowned as a result.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:54:57
UTR - that seems to be a popular opinion from what I read around the forum and twitter.

I don't think he influences games enough. But at the same time I think he'd be great in a better team where he's part of a machine rather than the cog expected to do the heavy lifting.

So I think I'm at the stage where we keep him if
  - he wants to stay, and is affordable
  - we try to actually assemble a team trying to gain promotion

If we are going into the season with much the same heavy bias towards youth, I think we need to replace with on older head "dogger" (oooer) - someone who gets stuck in and kicks people.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:57:31
We only really have Brewitt and FBT who are capable of making a tackle, the rest donít want to know and prefer to pretty much just run out of the way. This all needs to change or next season could be a disaster.

Who have a grand total of 87 league appearances between them so are hardly experienced players, not sure whether its experience or attitude.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 3, 2023, 10:59:09
Williams comes and goes in games. Iím still not entirely sure what his best position is in midfield. Personal thoughts would be a free role #10 one of the few positions we havenít played him in.

Iíd expect a player of his supposed caliber to be able to run games in this league.
Williams has never taken the game by the scruff of the neck and dragged us to a result.

Payne & McKirdy dragged us to results last season.
Last 10 minutes yesterday Payne would have been every where to hold on. Williams wouldnít have (appreciate he wasnít even on come the end but donít think he would have made much difference)

Player like Doughty could run games at this level.

I wouldnít be against keeping him (wages permitting) but I see him more as a luxury player than a vital cog to winning games.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, April 3, 2023, 11:08:47
Who have a grand total of 87 league appearances between them so are hardly experienced players, not sure whether its experience or attitude.
Take your point on Brewitt but FBT is 27 and has done things the hard way with a lot of non league appearances. We definitely lack game management skills be that due to the lack of experience or Judy a lack of footballing intelligence and leadership skills.

But youíre right in that attitude is definitely another factor, too many of them seem to think theyíve Ďmade ití and are above doing hard work at this level as they were once in some PL clubís academy. Iíd wager in 2 or 3 years time more than half this squad will no longer be playing league football.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, April 3, 2023, 11:26:21
Williams comes and goes in games. Iím still not entirely sure what his best position is in midfield. Personal thoughts would be a free role #10 one of the few positions we havenít played him in.

Iíd expect a player of his supposed caliber to be able to run games in this league.
Williams has never taken the game by the scruff of the neck and dragged us to a result.

Payne & McKirdy dragged us to results last season.
Last 10 minutes yesterday Payne would have been every where to hold on. Williams wouldnít have (appreciate he wasnít even on come the end but donít think he would have made much difference)

Player like Doughty could run games at this level.

I wouldnít be against keeping him (wages permitting) but I see him more as a luxury player than a vital cog to winning games.

I think he sees his best position as a #8


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: RobertT on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:11:55
The experience vs leadership thing is interesting.  If the entire dumping of our chips on the stats approach is the root of our problem, the issue could well be the intangibles.  I understand why the approach has the ownership teams eyes lighting up - find a hidden gem, gain the rewards.  The problem we have is we packed out an entire squad this way.

What we seem to have done is find a bunch of players who have stats suggesting they could be better, but managed to miss the one ingredient we have next to none of at all - which is a word somewhere between experience and leadership.  Not one you see on the stats sheet, for sure.  Maybe not one a Manager can actually directly coach either.

I'm struggling for what that word is.

To me, it's a bit like muscle memory.  The more you push your body to do something, the easier it becomes because the muscles "remember" the movements.   Each time is just a little bit easier, you can push your body that little bit further, but it takes time, effort and commitment.

If I use a personal example for the mental version of this.   I am a naturally anxious person when it comes to meeting new people and needing to talk to those new people.  At school age, if I was sent to go get the stapler from Mrs Woodbridge's class, I'd stand outside and wait to be seen rather than knock the door and have an entire classroom look at me.  These days I can stand up in front of 200+ people and deliver a speech without notes.  I still shit myself, but it's not as bad, the mind knows it's stressful but it's also got a memory bank of all the times it went well that I can play.  Instead of being nearly paralysed with fear, I can have a few butterflies and jokes and get on stage.  If I leave it a long time between efforts, it takes a bit more - if I do it a week later, it's much easier.

For our players, this is what we are missing.  Something mentally.  They have not been in the situations they find themselves in very often - either because they were Academy players facing very different situations (nobody forced to win at all costs, teams play the same way you do etc.) or they were non-league, where they may have had the knocks but not the talent to worry about.  Very few players can go into their memory bank and know they will be OK, that they really do have the skillset to handle the situation, or that the other 10 on the pitch do and they will help you out.

That can explain giving away leads, dropping deep (because you are not sure your fellow defenders will be able to cope or you are not used to long balls being played over and over again), not tracking your man (because your memory is of players passing around in front of you), basically, looking fragile.

We need 7-8 players, minimum, on the pitch who have that memory bank to call upon.  We only have two in the squad (excluding Baudry).


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:17:26
The experience vs leadership thing is interesting.  If the entire dumping of our chips on the stats approach is the root of our problem, the issue could well be the intangibles.  I understand why the approach has the ownership teams eyes lighting up - find a hidden gem, gain the rewards.  The problem we have is we packed out an entire squad this way.

What we seem to have done is find a bunch of players who have stats suggesting they could be better, but managed to miss the one ingredient we have next to none of at all - which is a word somewhere between experience and leadership.  Not one you see on the stats sheet, for sure.  Maybe not one a Manager can actually directly coach either.

I'm struggling for what that word is.

To me, it's a bit like muscle memory.  The more you push your body to do something, the easier it becomes because the muscles "remember" the movements.   Each time is just a little bit easier, you can push your body that little bit further, but it takes time, effort and commitment.

If I use a personal example for the mental version of this.   I am a naturally anxious person when it comes to meeting new people and needing to talk to those new people.  At school age, if I was sent to go get the stapler from Mrs Woodbridge's class, I'd stand outside and wait to be seen rather than knock the door and have an entire classroom look at me.  These days I can stand up in front of 200+ people and deliver a speech without notes.  I still shit myself, but it's not as bad, the mind knows it's stressful but it's also got a memory bank of all the times it went well that I can play.  Instead of being nearly paralysed with fear, I can have a few butterflies and jokes and get on stage.  If I leave it a long time between efforts, it takes a bit more - if I do it a week later, it's much easier.

For our players, this is what we are missing.  Something mentally.  They have not been in the situations they find themselves in very often - either because they were Academy players facing very different situations (nobody forced to win at all costs, teams play the same way you do etc.) or they were non-league, where they may have had the knocks but not the talent to worry about.  Very few players can go into their memory bank and know they will be OK, that they really do have the skillset to handle the situation, or that the other 10 on the pitch do and they will help you out.

That can explain giving away leads, dropping deep (because you are not sure your fellow defenders will be able to cope or you are not used to long balls being played over and over again), not tracking your man (because your memory is of players passing around in front of you), basically, looking fragile.

We need 7-8 players, minimum, on the pitch who have that memory bank to call upon.  We only have two in the squad (excluding Baudry).

We need to invent a word for it.

Leaderperience

Experiship

Exleadpershipence


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:19:13
Nous?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Tails on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:19:44
You could probably keep a core of the squad from this season. There's enough talent in there. Our issues have lied in several areas, for me:

1) They're unfit
2) They're ill disciplined
3) They're mentally fragile

A good set of coaches to organise them and keep them motivated is desperately needed. I think that'll be a start. The recruitment needs to be better also (fully on board with Sandro and his buddies being handed their p45's) but if you look at the teams doing well in this league... Organised. Disciplined. Motivated.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: RobertT on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:27:02
Oh, and Morris is right to an extent.  He can help, but he cannot ensure that a player gains that missing ingredient.  I can certainly work to overcome my fear, or improve my ability, using the coaching of someone else, but it is on me to learn and embed.  I know I can probably overcome a fear of heights, but I have no desire to do so!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:33:05
You could probably keep a core of the squad from this season.

What do you mean by core? Are you talking "core numbers from those starting/close to starting" or "spine" (key players in key positions).

Has to be the former right?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Tails on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:37:43
Yep, the former. Glad you can articulate it better than I Batch!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:38:05
Thought experiment - most agree we're missing a CB, CM and targetman.

Say we had our current squad, except adding Owen Moxon (Carlisle CM), Carl Pierganni (Stevenage's no-nonsense CB) and Luke Armstrong (Harrogate's striker, wins more aerials than anyone else in the division, and scored 13 goals doing it).

Where do you think we are in the league? It's probably top, isn't it? The margins are pretty small down here, the league is pretty bad.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Monday, April 3, 2023, 13:47:09
Personally think we need a bit more, as not convinced Darcy, Cain and a few others provide the creativity or robustness.  But that's subjective.

The you are right - the margins are small, and sometimes luck (injuries) and a bit of confidence of a winning run makes it easier.

Even now we aren't being blown away by teams. We run out of steam, invite them on, make it difficult for ourselves. But come on, we aren't far away from a few extra wins/drawn (which is probably your point)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: RobertT on Monday, April 3, 2023, 14:23:27
Agree Batch.

if I look at last seasons team and wonder who would make this current team better, I think a fit Baudry (or a been there and done it centre half), Payne, McKirdy, Barry, the option to rotate Gladwin and Williams, Reed (as he was then) and Egbo.  They are all better than our current options.

That's maybe 6/7 players - and remember, that team did not go up!

It may only be small margins, but I do think you need about 7 or so in the first team who can handle the pressure.  Hell, I'd take Davison over every forward bar Austin, and I didn't think a team aiming for top three would have him as their main centre forward (still believe that).


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 08:36:24
Putting to one side the danger of being obsessed with ex players, who would take McKirdy back next year?
His move has not worked out. We are desperate for a player prepared to take the opposition on.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, April 17, 2023, 08:41:53
Putting to one side the danger of being obsessed with ex players, who would take McKirdy back next year?
His move has not worked out. We are desperate for a player prepared to take the opposition on.
mcKirdy won't return, I understand he has expressed an unwillingness to come back here to his friends when asked.

FWIW I would welcome him back.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Monday, April 17, 2023, 08:43:36
Not that I'd want a McKirdy return, but I wonder why he wouldn't want to (if that's true)?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 08:44:24
mcKirdy won't return, I understand he has expressed an unwillingness to come back here to his friends when asked.

FWIW I would welcome him back.

Interesting. Youíd think heíd get a sniff in L1 if his agent earns his crust. Or he just sits out what must be a decent contract in Edinburgh.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, April 17, 2023, 08:47:02
Interesting. Youíd think heíd get a sniff in L1 if his agent earns his crust. Or he just sits out what must be a decent contract in Edinburgh.
Easily doubled his wage, not sure why he won't come back but thats what he told one of his close mates back in January when we made a bid for a return loan.

I would think playing every game is better than getting splinters in your arse.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: JoeMezz on Monday, April 17, 2023, 08:51:26
Putting to one side the danger of being obsessed with ex players, who would take McKirdy back next year?
His move has not worked out. We are desperate for a player prepared to take the opposition on.

I'd take him back


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:06:24
I wouldn't take him back but 2 players of the Barry and McKirdy mould either side of Austin and it is a great start.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:12:33
I wouldn't take him back but 2 players of the Barry and McKirdy mould either side of Austin and it is a great start.

Yep


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:12:57
I wouldn't take him back but 2 players of the Barry and McKirdy mould either side of Austin and it is a great start.

Yes, neither Wakeling nor RHM really work as wide players in a front three. I thought RHM would be better there, even if he has  been one of our more effective players recently. Not sure if heís a straight down the middle striker either, which makes him then a bit of a conundrum.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Trashbat? on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:26:35
The amazing thing is if you include Jephcott & Adeloye, we have 5 forwards with none of them really fitting together to form any sort of cohesive forward line at all.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: tans on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:28:38
I wouldn't take him back but 2 players of the Barry and McKirdy mould either side of Austin and it is a great start.

Yep, if Austin stays of course


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:30:29
The amazing thing is if you include Jephcott & Adeloye, we have 5 forwards with none of them really fitting together to form any sort of cohesive forward line at all.


Jephcott will go and score goals once he's finished with us I'm sure of it, he's got quite a solid record when he's had full seasons under his belt

Unless they've arranged Adeloyes departure already, I find it a little daft he's not even involved in matchday squads when he's got another year under his belt.

Talking of returns, much rather Payne than mckirdy but it's never gonna happen. Even in a shit team Payne will turn up and make a difference (L1 relegation season perfect example, second half of season he was very good).


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:31:10
The amazing thing is if you include Jephcott & Adeloye, we have 5 forwards with none of them really fitting together to form any sort of cohesive forward line at all.

Yes, 5 puzzle piecesÖ from 5 different puzzles!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:32:03
Yes, neither Wakeling nor RHM really work as wide players in a front three. I thought RHM would be better there, even if he has  been one of our more effective players recently. Not sure if heís a straight down the middle striker either, which makes him then a bit of a conundrum.

I'm not sure RHM knows what he is either TBH.

The amazing thing is if you include Jephcott & Adeloye, we have 5 forwards with none of them really fitting together to form any sort of cohesive forward line at all.

Sums up the whole team really, the midfield nor defence don't seem able to play together particularly cohesively either.

Yep, if Austin stays of course

Thought it was suggested from various ITK sources that he has signed another deal?


Jephcott will go and score goals once he's finished with us I'm sure of it, he's got quite a solid record when he's had full seasons under his belt

Has Jephcott ever actually been played in a position that suits his abilities?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:34:45
Nah, no to McKirdy.
Heís peaked. Had his one good season and give it a couple of years and youíll never hear about him again. Absolutely no chance we tried to get him back in Jan.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:35:16
Jephcott will be the new Alex Revell


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:40:40


Has Jephcott ever actually been played in a position that suits his abilities?

At Swindon, or at Plymouth also? Got 18 goals at plymouth in the sabotage season under Sheridan, then 11 the season after as more of a squad player


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:40:49
Putting to one side the danger of being obsessed with ex players, who would take McKirdy back next year?
His move has not worked out. We are desperate for a player prepared to take the opposition on.

I'm going to say no, but from what we have seen from this season's squad is that there is next to no exciting players in our squad. On paper you'd think Charlie would be the kind of player pumping his arms to get the crowd going but he's kind of been a bit sullen since he's been back - hardly surprising. There is just nobody that fans really give a proper shit about.

The midfield clearly needs work, we have too many players far too similar to each other.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:49:05
I'm going to say no, but from what we have seen from this season's squad is that there is next to no exciting players in our squad. On paper you'd think Charlie would be the kind of player pumping his arms to get the crowd going but he's kind of been a bit sullen since he's been back - hardly surprising. There is just nobody that fans really give a proper shit about.

The midfield clearly needs work, we have too many players far too similar to each other.

The exciting role is the role Williams should be playing imo.
Just he doesnít


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: ThreeDrawsMentality on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:50:28
I'm in the no category too. Was fun to see an exciting and maverick player have their purple season, but there's no guarantee he'll hit them heights again, will always be a risk personality wise, and will see himself as League One minimum given the lower league look interview he did.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:57:51
The exciting role is the role Williams should be playing imo.
Just he doesnít

Which is interesting, when you consider that he's a proper cult hero with Wales and was well liked at former clubs. It feels like the connection hasn't ever quite been there at Town - he's done fairly well and is well liked, but initially McKirdy was the "icon" and this season, nobody really - Austin when he came back I suppose.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:02:21
The exciting role is the role Williams should be playing imo.
Just he doesnít

Occasionally he'll do the double arm 'rouse' to the Town End, but as with most of the squad, his heart doesn't seem in it. Don't get me wrong, he always puts a shift in, but he does seem to be in running down his contract mode. I imagine he'll be wanting to add to his Sunderland and Crystal Palace documentary appearances and join Reyolds and co at Wrexham.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:06:52
I'm not getting down on a guy who has top-scored thus far with 9 goals from midfield. One of the very few who clears the 'acceptable level of performance over the season' bar.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:09:47
Williams is a cut above league 2, if he has the players around him. He isn't an individual in the same way McKirdy was, so needs other quick brained players to play with. Which we lack at the moment.

But Williams largely joined us because of Garner right? So odds him going to Colchester?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:13:56
Williams is a cut above league 2, if he has the players around him. He isn't an individual in the same way McKirdy was, so needs other quick brained players to play with. Which we lack at the moment.

But Williams largely joined us because of Garner right? So odds him going to Colchester?

I think you are probably right. He was better last season in Garner's side when we had Jack Payne running the show, Louis Reed looking after things in midfield and Mckirdy and Ty Simpson causing havoc up front. He's been a shadow this season, don't get me wrong, 9 goals from midfield is an excellent return and he has put in some great performances. It's a real shame we couldn't have kicked on from last season, he may have wanted to extend his stay if that was the case. (i'm assuming he's not going to based on nothing)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:17:20
I thought his form was quite good going into the world cup. Then not so after, though been brighter in the last 2.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Berniman on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:23:00
No to McKirdy, and I am sure the backroom staff would agree


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:23:57
No to McKirdy, and I am sure the backroom staff would agree

I've seen a few of these veiled comments since he left. What's the craic?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:30:38
What you see is what you get with him on and off. He openly admitted in 1 podcast that he was bored so used to pracice his golf tee shots in his fron room for example. He had padded the wall ffs

Everything about him was a nightmare


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:34:22
What you see is what you get with him on and off. He openly admitted in 1 podcast that he was bored so used to pracice his golf tee shots in his fron room for example. He had padded the wall ffs

Everything about him was a nightmare

There's no doubt he's a sandwich short of a picnic but there seems to have been a suggestion of bad behaviour beyond just being a lemon.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:36:51
McKirdy was brilliant for us that season, might of not happened for him at other clubs but now lets not pretend he was a bad egg in the dressing room or around the club in his 25 goal season for this club, arguably the reason we made into the play offs with that many goals.

Players, staff, kitmen and fans you name it all loved him that season.

and fwiw, nah I can't see him coming back, why would he? Living it up in a place like Edinburgh on a tidy wage for someone with his personality, and only being an hour flight from home, must be quite the lifestyle.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:42:46
McKirdy was brilliant for us that season, might of not happened for him at other clubs but now lets not pretend he was a bad egg in the dressing room or around the club in his 25 goal season for this club, arguably the reason we made into the play offs with that many goals.

Players, staff, kitmen and fans you name it all loved him that season.

and fwiw, nah I can't see him coming back, why would he? Living it up in a place like Edinburgh on a tidy wage for someone with his personality, and only being an hour flight from home, must be quite the lifestyle.
They loved him because he was a lunatic that's for sure.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Berniman on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:48:05
I didn't say he was a bad egg, i don't think he was, but..  McKirdy occupied a lot of time for many of the clubs backroom staff, managment and even players (Payne was basically babysitting him at times to keep him in line) - i got told that the coaching staff spent well over 50% of their time just dealing with McKirdy's antics and distractions.

He wasn't tearing up dressing rooms and causing fights (apart from after being sent off) but he got bored quickly, acted by his own rules and made a lot of everyones focus about him, rather than the bigger picture.  It worked for that season, probably because of the way Garner handled the situation, but you could already see the difference in McKirdy once Garner had left in the short stint at the start of this season.

Last season, his performances and goals made it a worthwhile distraction, but that can only work for so long and trying to replicate that scenario with a different set of players and backroom staff would be extremely difficult.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:48:58
Everything about him was a nightmare
true, except his on the pitch perfomances. Not quite Nile Ranger-eque but a handful to manage.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:50:38
I didn't say he was a bad egg, i don't think he was, but..  McKirdy occupied a lot of time for many of the clubs backroom staff, managment and even players (Payne was basically babysitting him at times to keep him in line) - i got told that the coaching staff spent well over 50% of their time just dealing with McKirdy's antics and distractions.

He wasn't tearing up dressing rooms and causing fights (apart from after being sent off) but he got bored quickly, acted by his own rules and made a lot of everyones focus about him, rather than the bigger picture.  It worked for that season, probably because of the way Garner handled the situation, but you could already see the difference in McKirdy once Garner had left in the short stint at the start of this season.

Last season, his performances and goals made it a worthwhile distraction, but that can only work for so long and trying to replicate that scenario with a different set of players and backroom staff would be extremely difficult.

Interesting stuff. Thanks. Whilst Morris has that youth coaching background that might work, his alleged disciplinarian streak is unlikely to roll with Harry...


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: JoeMezz on Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:59:39
Next season rebuild for me.

Keep: Brann, Lavinier, Hutton (but likely to go), Clayton, Minturn, FBT, Tomlinson, Cain, Khan, McEachran, Williams (if possible but I assume unlikely), Wakeling, RHM, Austin (if possible but unlikely I'd assume).

^ Above would put us in a much better position than what we'd usually be in the summer.

Gaps:
- Senior keeper and back up keeper - I'd want to see Brann on loan, Ward #2 would be perfect
- Versatile full back (Rob Hunt) who can play right and left back, emphasis on right if Hutton goes
- Three centre halves, at least 1 big who can head the ball and at least 1 experienced
- Midfield - ball winning midfielder, could then push Khan further forward where he used to play at Chesterfield
- Target man who can hold the ball up, if budget dictates I'd rather see this than Austin FWIW. Another striker who we can develop.

I make that 8/9 signings with 2-3 likely departures of players I'd want us to keep if possible. Wouldn't want any of the loans back and happy to see Iandolo go. Not too fussed on keeping players like Roberts. Baudry to retire and off the wage bill.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Monday, April 17, 2023, 11:17:50
Not far off my list JoeMezz.

I have reservations over RHM and Tomlinson, one on ability, one on fitness.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bennett on Monday, April 17, 2023, 11:28:41
- Target man who can hold the ball up, if budget dictates I'd rather see this than Austin FWIW. Another striker who we can develop.
A player like Kane Hemmings for Tranmere with Wakeling and/or RHM alongside would work well I think


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, April 17, 2023, 11:30:05
Next season rebuild for me.

Keep: Brann, Lavinier, Hutton (but likely to go), Clayton, Minturn, FBT, Tomlinson, Cain, Khan, McEachran, Williams (if possible but I assume unlikely), Wakeling, RHM, Austin (if possible but unlikely I'd assume).

^ Above would put us in a much better position than what we'd usually be in the summer.

Gaps:
- Senior keeper and back up keeper - I'd want to see Brann on loan, Ward #2 would be perfect
- Versatile full back (Rob Hunt) who can play right and left back, emphasis on right if Hutton goes
- Three centre halves, at least 1 big who can head the ball and at least 1 experienced
- Midfield - ball winning midfielder, could then push Khan further forward where he used to play at Chesterfield
- Target man who can hold the ball up, if budget dictates I'd rather see this than Austin FWIW. Another striker who we can develop.

I make that 8/9 signings with 2-3 likely departures of players I'd want us to keep if possible. Wouldn't want any of the loans back and happy to see Iandolo go. Not too fussed on keeping players like Roberts. Baudry to retire and off the wage bill.
We desperately need a genuinely skilful creative player, someone similar to McKirdy or Payne who can actually run at defenders and bring some excitement and defenders problems. This current team has no one with those qualities which is part of the reason it is so boring to watch.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: THE FLASH on Monday, April 17, 2023, 11:50:28
We currently have nobody that can run at a defence.

Glaring on Saturday.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Monday, April 17, 2023, 12:26:01
We currently have nobody that can run at a defence.

Glaring on Saturday.

We certainly don't have anyone that can do that successfully, Wakeling and RHM both struggling to beat their man, outside the possible penalty.

There are lots of problems in the team (obviously) but for me the biggest is midfield. You can see Morris there on Sat so frustrated when the players can't play the balls that are needed.

Two big problems. One our midfielders can't accept the ball on the turn or play the ball around the corner to move forward, 99% of the time its a pass backwards. Even Khan with a vaguely useful turn, barely uses it. All this stops us transitioning forward and ends up with the ball at the back a lot. The second is they can't play the long pass. People underestimate the loss of Gladwin and to a lesser extent Reed, playing the way we do is all about creating space and Gladwin was the only player capable of quickly switching play to exploit space (normally to Hutton). Now it takes 2 or 3 passes and the opposition can move across. I see Morris trying to get our midfield to spread the ball quickly every week, but the players are just not up to it.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, April 17, 2023, 12:52:38
Assume Adeloye is on his way out then?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, April 17, 2023, 13:01:04
Assume Adeloye is on his way out then?

I think it's a case of Morris saying to the player in a roundabout way;

''You're not giving one hundred percent, if you apply yourself in training then you might start. Be fully committed and impress in the last 5 games and you might be part of my plans for next season. If not, there's the door.''

Put's the ball in the player's court somewhat and we'll know either way if he does apply himself correctly.

There are probably other players who also need this kind of revelation too. Nothing better than someone saying you aren't good enough/pulling your weight  to turn around and prove that you are/can. Should motivate them but it all depends on if the player thinks they need to put in the desired effort. Someone like Adeloye, if his application is poor, wouldn't last five mins under PdC - PdC Would've signed another 6 strikers in rebellion to the one  :D :D


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Monday, April 17, 2023, 13:32:05
Not that I'd want a McKirdy return, but I wonder why he wouldn't want to (if that's true)?

Well itís like this. At any sign of discontent, poor performance or indiscipline etc, Garner put his hands around McKirdys shoulders, Morrison the other hand is more likey to put his hands round his throat. Does that help? 🤣

Edit: FFS, Iím sure I typed in Morris but Iíll leave the typo for those of you who get off on pointing these things out.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Monday, April 17, 2023, 13:53:14
Assume Adeloye is on his way out then?
Ď I asked Morris about Charlie Austin's fitness and why Tomi Adeloye has been excluded from the squad:

He is one of a few players who are a bit sore and we will be looking at if he can play in the next day
Jephcott has seemed more committed to the club and wanting to give everything than Adeloyeí


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, April 17, 2023, 15:07:29
Well itís like this. At any sign of discontent, poor performance or indiscipline etc, Garner put his hands around McKirdys shoulders, Morrison the other hand is more likely to put his hands around his throat. Does that help? 🤣

Mark Morrison had a great career as a singer, never knew he had a violent streak in him or football management for that matter.

FWIW, if an approach was made by STFC for McGirty to return then it was before Morrison(sic) was manager anyway.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, April 17, 2023, 16:46:29
Mark Morrison had a great career as a singer, never knew he had a violent streak in him or football management for that matter.

FWIW, if an approach was made by STFC for McGirty to return then it was before Morrison(sic) was manager anyway.

Morrison has faced various criminal charges during his career, including a 1997 conviction for attempting to bring a firearm aboard an airliner, for which he served three months in jail just as his hit song "Return of the Mack" began rising up the US Billboard charts.[1][17] In 1998, he failed to appear in court on charges of possessing an offensive weapon, choosing to instead fly to Barbados. He was arrested and remanded into custody upon his return to the United Kingdom.[18][19] He was later cleared of the offensive weapon charge.[20]

He was convicted of affray for his part in a brawl resulting in one fatality and sentenced to community service.[17] Morrison later was incarcerated in Wormwood Scrubs for a year for paying a lookalike (Gabriel Maferika) to perform his court-appointed community service in his stead, while Morrison himself went on tour.[17][21] While in prison, Morrison reportedly converted to Islam and attempted to change his name to Abdul Rahman.[22] Also in 1998, Morrison was banned from driving for six months and fined £1,380 after twice being caught driving without a licence.[23]

In 2002, Morrison was arrested on suspicion of kidnapping and car theft.[24] He was released on bail, but a policeman was later arrested on suspicion of taking a bribe from Morrison in return for his release.[24] Morrison failed to appear in court to face the charges and a warrant was issued for his arrest.[24]

In 2004, he was arrested and spent a night in custody, after a fracas in which a platinum and diamond medallion was snatched from around his neck during a confrontation at a Leicester nightclub.[25]

 :hmmm:

Warning, NMH may get knickers twisted for going off thread.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Monday, April 17, 2023, 16:48:00
Morrison has faced various criminal charges during his career, including a 1997 conviction for attempting to bring a firearm aboard an airliner, for which he served three months in jail just as his hit song "Return of the Mack" began rising up the US Billboard charts.[1][17] In 1998, he failed to appear in court on charges of possessing an offensive weapon, choosing to instead fly to Barbados. He was arrested and remanded into custody upon his return to the United Kingdom.[18][19] He was later cleared of the offensive weapon charge.[20]

He was convicted of affray for his part in a brawl resulting in one fatality and sentenced to community service.[17] Morrison later was incarcerated in Wormwood Scrubs for a year for paying a lookalike (Gabriel Maferika) to perform his court-appointed community service in his stead, while Morrison himself went on tour.[17][21] While in prison, Morrison reportedly converted to Islam and attempted to change his name to Abdul Rahman.[22] Also in 1998, Morrison was banned from driving for six months and fined £1,380 after twice being caught driving without a licence.[23]

In 2002, Morrison was arrested on suspicion of kidnapping and car theft.[24] He was released on bail, but a policeman was later arrested on suspicion of taking a bribe from Morrison in return for his release.[24] Morrison failed to appear in court to face the charges and a warrant was issued for his arrest.[24]

In 2004, he was arrested and spent a night in custody, after a fracas in which a platinum and diamond medallion was snatched from around his neck during a confrontation at a Leicester nightclub.[25]

 :hmmm:

Warning, NMH may get knickers twisted for going off thread.

I seem to recall him appearing on TOTP in handcuffs as a nod to a recent misdemeanour!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Monday, April 17, 2023, 19:16:16
Morrison has faced various criminal charges during his career, including a 1997 conviction for attempting to bring a firearm aboard an airliner, for which he served three months in jail just as his hit song "Return of the Mack" began rising up the US Billboard charts.[1][17] In 1998, he failed to appear in court on charges of possessing an offensive weapon, choosing to instead fly to Barbados. He was arrested and remanded into custody upon his return to the United Kingdom.[18][19] He was later cleared of the offensive weapon charge.[20]

He was convicted of affray for his part in a brawl resulting in one fatality and sentenced to community service.[17] Morrison later was incarcerated in Wormwood Scrubs for a year for paying a lookalike (Gabriel Maferika) to perform his court-appointed community service in his stead, while Morrison himself went on tour.[17][21] While in prison, Morrison reportedly converted to Islam and attempted to change his name to Abdul Rahman.[22] Also in 1998, Morrison was banned from driving for six months and fined £1,380 after twice being caught driving without a licence.[23]

In 2002, Morrison was arrested on suspicion of kidnapping and car theft.[24] He was released on bail, but a policeman was later arrested on suspicion of taking a bribe from Morrison in return for his release.[24] Morrison failed to appear in court to face the charges and a warrant was issued for his arrest.[24]

In 2004, he was arrested and spent a night in custody, after a fracas in which a platinum and diamond medallion was snatched from around his neck during a confrontation at a Leicester nightclub.[25]

 :hmmm:

Warning, NMH may get knickers twisted for going off thread.
Oh-uh-uh-oh! Come on! Oh yeah!
Well I tried to tell you so - Yes, I did!
But I guess you didn't know?
As the saddest story goes,
Baby, now I got the flow!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, April 17, 2023, 19:17:22

Morrison later was incarcerated in Wormwood Scrubs for a year for paying a lookalike (Gabriel Maferika) to perform his court-appointed community service in his stead, while Morrison himself went on tour.[
 
:hmmm:

Warning, NMH may get knickers twisted for going off thread.
 

This is it. This is the post to close all threads. Absolute quality that he got away with it initially.

Also sorry, think I was getting Mark Morrison mixed up with Tunde Baiyewu of Lighthouse Family fame  :)


#SeeMarkForAllYourFakeIDNeeds


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, April 17, 2023, 19:26:17
Oh-uh-uh-oh! Come on! Oh yeah!
Well I tried to tell you so - Yes, I did!
But I guess you didn't know?
As the saddest story goes,
Baby, now I got the flow!

Strangely I put the radio (two) on for the first time in ages and that song was played during the hour I had it on.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, April 17, 2023, 21:03:22
The Return of the Mack album is absolute gold BTW.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: JoeMezz on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 11:56:23
Assume Adeloye is on his way out then?

Huttonís instagram a photo with Adeloye and a love heart. Squad harmony over Morris to be questioned


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 11:58:33
I'd totally missed that was from Hutton ...

ut-oh, is a bomb squad forming before our very eyes ..


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 12:14:02
So Hutton has aligned himself with the unprofessional element. Imagine my shock. I have no issue Morris going through this squad like a dose of salts. If FBT was posting it I'd be concerned.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: tans on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 12:35:36
Huttonís instagram a photo with Adeloye and a love heart. Squad harmony over Morris to be questioned

Now gone private


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 12:39:42
Now gone private

Too late, its on twitter now. Rift central I reckon.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: UTR on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 12:56:47
Ironic that after so many years of 1 year deals and bemoaning summer overhauls, itís this year that we chose to finally give out 2 year deals to a lot of the squad and this is the summer weíre most keen on an overhaul.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Super Hans on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 13:01:54
No issue with any of them leaving really. Apart from Sol Brynn could anyone say they've had a good season? FBT maybe falls into that category and Tom Clayton has adapted to league football well. Elsewhere i'm struggling with average to poor assessments throughout the squad. Our league position highlights this.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 13:05:38
Too late, its on twitter now. Rift central I reckon.

Bet its pretty common at more clubs. Disappointing but there we are.

No issue with any of them leaving really. Apart from Sol Brynn could anyone say they've had a good season? FBT maybe falls into that category and Tom Clayton has adapted to league football well. Elsewhere i'm struggling with average to poor assessments throughout the squad. Our league position highlights this.

Clayton - you're right we do have to take into account that Wakeling, Lavinier, Clayton and possibly a few others are only just cutting their teeth on league football. Could have very bright futures.

Which would be OK if we hadn't packed the rest of the squad with punts.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 13:08:35
No issue with any of them leaving really. Apart from Sol Brynn could anyone say they've had a good season? FBT maybe falls into that category and Tom Clayton has adapted to league football well. Elsewhere i'm struggling with average to poor assessments throughout the squad. Our league position highlights this.

Totally agree. I'd be sad to see FBT go, and Austin and Williams based more on services rendered, but I wouldn't give a toss if I never saw any others of this lot again, which is a massively sad. Maybe Wakeling too as I type this...

I can't think of a less likeable squad in the last 30 years. A proper rabble of misfit mercenaries. How the club sorts it out having given them 2 year contracts is anyone's guess.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 13:09:47
So Hutton has aligned himself with the unprofessional element. Imagine my shock. I have no issue Morris going through this squad like a dose of salts. If FBT was posting it I'd be concerned.

Not the wisest thing to do, but players can have friends and want to support them, even if said friend has a bad work attitude right?

I don't read this as Hutton giving it to Morris like perhaps others are.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 13:10:02

 A proper rabble of misfit mercenaries.

Do you mean mercenaries? Seriously, they are not here for the money!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: THE FLASH on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 15:14:24
No issue with any of them leaving really. Apart from Sol Brynn could anyone say they've had a good season? FBT maybe falls into that category and Tom Clayton has adapted to league football well. Elsewhere i'm struggling with average to poor assessments throughout the squad. Our league position highlights this.

Williams for me.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 20:00:31
Huttonís instagram a photo with Adeloye and a love heart. Squad harmony over Morris to be questioned

These cunts are so precious aren't they. Easy for them to sub reference the manager when someone like Hutton is about 5/6ths already out the door. It's shit stirring behaviour really and we used to see it from McGirty and Woolery before him.

Although it is ''just a love heart'', Hutton knows exactly what he's doing in that respect and probably thinks it's clever. All it does is make things a bit unsettling and probably isolates Adeloye even more. Well done dickhead. As I said, it won't bother Hutton much when he's pretty much all but secured a move away from Town.

Probably worth dropping him now for the next game. End of the day bad eggs tend to smell and it can't be good for the likes of Wakeling who seems a decent lad, when you've got some wannabe-big-time-charlie-neverbeen trying to cause problems in the camp.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: molepar on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 20:09:10
These cunts are so precious aren't they. Easy for them to sub reference the manager when someone like Hutton is about 5/6ths already out the door. It's shit stirring behaviour really and we used to see it from McGirty and Woolery before him.

Although it is ''just a love heart'', Hutton knows exactly what he's doing in that respect and probably thinks it's clever. All it does is make things a bit unsettling and probably isolates Adeloye even more. Well done dickhead. As I said, it won't bother Hutton much when he's pretty much all but secured a move away from Town.

Probably worth dropping him now for the next game. End of the day bad eggs tend to smell and it can't be good for the likes of Wakeling who seems a decent lad, when you've got some wannabe-big-time-charlie-neverbeen trying to cause problems in the camp.

What did McKirdy do that was similar to that? Iím not disagreeing by the way, but just didnít know Harry did anything like that with us (although I am aware that some of his tweets didnít go down well with Hibs fans)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 20:56:44
What did McKirdy do that was similar to that? Iím not disagreeing by the way, but just didnít know Harry did anything like that with us (although I am aware that some of his tweets didnít go down well with Hibs fans)

He pretty much lives on Insta and posted loads of wind up tripe when he was at Town.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 08:25:21
Last night shows that Williams should be our #1 target for a contract extension, not Austin.
I love Charlie but heís had an odd spell. Jonny was brilliant and a team properly built around him as a floating 10 could be great. Too often heís been asked to do a job that he isnít cut out for. 10 goals from midfield in a shite team is an achievement.
Would be a statement to the fans too.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:02:23
Well this sounds great...

Jody Morris: "There are conversations that need to be going on, but they haven't started yet. For me there are quite a few things that need to be discussed at the football club to see what we can do and what the budgets are.

Yeah [I don't know what resources I have]."

https://www.totalswindon.com/sport/press-conference-live-afc-wimbledon-v-swindon/


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Million Pound Man on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:15:50
Well this sounds great...

Jody Morris: "There are conversations that need to be going on, but they haven't started yet. For me there are quite a few things that need to be discussed at the football club to see what we can do and what the budgets are.

Yeah [I don't know what resources I have]."

https://www.totalswindon.com/sport/press-conference-live-afc-wimbledon-v-swindon/


We need to stump up for our ST first before the convos can happen  :D


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:17:32
And on Lewis Ward...

JM: "There are talks about what we are doing in goal next year. We are not to the bottom of that, so we don't know yet. There is a chance Ward will be involved, but when there are things going on then you don't know. I have a lot of time for Ward, he trains properly and is good around the lads, but we need to see what we can do. And we are working closely with Mildenhall to see what we need."


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: UTR on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:20:50
Well this sounds great...

Jody Morris: "There are conversations that need to be going on, but they haven't started yet. For me there are quite a few things that need to be discussed at the football club to see what we can do and what the budgets are.

Yeah [I don't know what resources I have]."

https://www.totalswindon.com/sport/press-conference-live-afc-wimbledon-v-swindon/

Insane if this is true. Season has been over for weeks. I can semi understand the resources bit, I imagine theyíve shit themselves a bit at the low ST numbers and are trying to adjust for lower numbers although youíd like to think they werenít naive enough to expect high take up of STís after this season. But for important conversations to be lingering when weíve basically had since end of February to plan for next season knowing we will be in League 2 isnít ideal.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:29:17
Interesting snippet from the presser re Brewitt

If he plays a certain number of games he gets extended. He is close to that number.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:30:01
The STFC rack  :)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:43:23
And on Lewis Ward...

JM: "There are talks about what we are doing in goal next year. We are not to the bottom of that, so we don't know yet. There is a chance Ward will be involved, but when there are things going on then you don't know. I have a lot of time for Ward, he trains properly and is good around the lads, but we need to see what we can do. And we are working closely with Mildenhall to see what we need."

Fuck sake, just what the club needs, the manager now acting like some sort of social media ITK....


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:51:32
Interesting snippet from the presser re Brewitt

If he plays a certain number of games he gets extended. He is close to that number.

I wonder if it's the same with Mceachran?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: molepar on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 11:43:45
I wonder if it's the same with Mceachran?
I think the club hold the option on McEí based on what was said when he signed.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 12:01:22
"things going on" probably means us, but could also mean on wards side. There's a reason why he couldn't sign in January, no idea if that extends beyond season end


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 12:05:23
"things going on" probably means us, but could also mean on wards side. There's a reason why he couldn't sign in January, no idea if that extends beyond season end

We may never know - depends on what was in his settlement agreement.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 12:22:33
Interesting snippet from the presser re Brewitt

If he plays a certain number of games he gets extended. He is close to that number.

We would be foolish to trigger that at this point. It may be we decide there is a place in next years squad for him, but no point having our hand forced because he has made do in an emergency case at the end of this season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Berniman on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 12:24:29
Time for a Minturn run of games


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 12:24:53
"things going on" probably means us, but could also mean on wards side. There's a reason why he couldn't sign in January, no idea if that extends beyond season end

If it relates to Sutton I can't see how it can extend beyond the end of the season.

As I have bored with on here before, I suspect its as simple as his settlement will include a pretty standard clause that if he gets paid employment in football before his cancelled contract would have ended then he has to pay some of that back and if that were the case we would have to start paying him. He trains with us whilst being paid by Sutton and I imagine if Brynn had got crooked we would have signed the out of contract Ward and started paying him.

Its all not helped by Morris seeming to love a bit of intrigue and trying to distance himself from things with a 'who know guv' stock answer.

Time for a Minturn run of games

Frankly if we are safe I would get any kids close to the first team in, plus anyone likley to be angling to leave or Morris just doesn't fancy out the team.

I suppose the only caveat is people like Adeloye who have a contract for next year but Morris doesn't fancy maybe need to be playing to either get into his plans or be in the shop window to allow us to try and get rid.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: tans on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:03:54
Anyone with half a brain should realise that conversations needed to be opened with OOC players you want to keep as soon as you hit the last 6 months of their deal. Pathetic


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:06:29
We would be foolish to trigger that at this point. It may be we decide there is a place in next years squad for him, but no point having our hand forced because he has made do in an emergency case at the end of this season.
Might not have a choice. If his short term contract stated that if he played 10 or whatever he would get an extension, that is shat he us entitled to. If we didnít fancy him during his short stint here Morris just wouldnít pick him to prevent having to give him an extension.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Oldwembley69 on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:08:12
JM confirmed today that no talks have been had with players other than Brewitt. He does not know what the budget will be next season as yet. Why do I feel this is going to be a similar close season as the last few years! :cry:



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: JoeMezz on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:21:41
JM confirmed today that no talks have been had with players other than Brewitt. He does not know what the budget will be next season as yet. Why do I feel this is going to be a similar close season as the last few years! :cry:



In all fairness I donít think a manager / head coach should know their budget - just when players are signed and when theyíre coming to close to capacity. However, to not have had conversations with OOC players, let alone players from other clubs who have 6 months left on their deal would be brainless and would get us back to where we are every season. Amateur hour and not in align with Angus notes in the advisory board minutes.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:26:49
We would be foolish to trigger that at this point. It may be we decide there is a place in next years squad for him, but no point having our hand forced because he has made do in an emergency case at the end of this season.

If you look back at the 'squad' defenders we have had in recent years in L2, I would argue that he is better than all of them:

Harries
Brennan
Minturn
Broadbent (one glorious day aside)
Zakuani
Curran
Robertson
Lancashire (aware he was a starter but truly rank)
Carroll
Romanski
Menayese
Etc etc

Is he as good as past starting L2 CBs of recent years? No:

Conroy
Preston
Nelson
Baudry
Woolfenden
REG
JOB
Crichlow
Cooper

On that basis, being realistic about where we are and accepting that he seems to be a good squad "character" and can apparently play at RB and DM too, he seems an eminently sensible squad option for next year.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:27:15
JM confirmed today that no talks have been had with players other than Brewitt. He does not know what the budget will be next season as yet. Why do I feel this is going to be a similar close season as the last few years! :cry:


Why is he holding talks with a player who already has a games trigger for a contract in his existing deal?

When it comes to do with his media contact, I still can't decide whether Morris is naively honest (which I struggle to believe as he must have been media trained to within an inch of his life whilst at Chelsea) or just very good at playing the long game to absolve himself of any subsequent blame.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:27:48
JM confirmed today that no talks have been had with players other than Brewitt. He does not know what the budget will be next season as yet. Why do I feel this is going to be a similar close season as the last few years! :cry:



Isn't it going to be a promotion achieving budget? That's what was said in the AB minutes I thought?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:30:46
Isn't it going to be a promotion achieving budget? That's what was said in the AB minutes I thought?

But is he a promotion achieving manager.....  ;)

Who knows, but as many clubs have proven over the years budgets smudgets...


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:32:56
Why is he holding talks with a player who already has a games trigger for a contract in his existing deal?

When it comes to do with his media contact, I still can't decide whether Morris is naively honest (which I struggle to believe as he must have been media trained to within an inch of his life whilst at Chelsea) or just very good at playing the long game to absolve himself of any subsequent blame.

It is definitely the latter.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:33:11
But is he a promotion achieving manager.....  ;)

Who knows, but as many clubs have proven over the years budgets smudgets...

Indeed. Clubs like Barrow and Sutton appear to be doing ok on what you imagine are budgets well below ours.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:42:58
Might not have a choice. If his short term contract stated that if he played 10 or whatever he would get an extension, that is shat he us entitled to. If we didnít fancy him during his short stint here Morris just wouldnít pick him to prevent having to give him an extension.

I mean more if we have not triggered it yet, drop him before we do. I'm not saying signing him is right or wrong, more keep your options open while they are planning next season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:45:08

Is he as good as past starting L2 CBs of recent years? No:

Conroy
Preston
Nelson
Baudry
Woolfenden
REG
JOB
Crichlow
Cooper

On that basis, being realistic about where we are and accepting that he seems to be a good squad "character" and can apparently play at RB and DM too, he seems an eminently sensible squad option for next year.


I disagree he is as good as most of this lot. A squad player maybe, but its more about options. Also i'm not calling a player that injured a colleague so he could play instead a good character.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Red Frog on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:47:56
If you look back at the 'squad' defenders we have had in recent years in L2, I would argue that he is better than all of them:

Harries
Brennan
Minturn
Broadbent (one glorious day aside)
Zakuani
Curran
Robertson
Lancashire (aware he was a starter but truly rank)
Carroll
Romanski
Menayese
Etc etc

Is he as good as past starting L2 CBs of recent years? No:

Conroy
Preston
Nelson
Baudry
Woolfenden
REG
JOB
Crichlow
Cooper

On that basis, being realistic about where we are and accepting that he seems to be a good squad "character" and can apparently play at RB and DM too, he seems an eminently sensible squad option for next year.


Jeez. When you put it like that, we really have had some dross at the back in recent times. Explains a lot. Though you're a touch harsh on Menayese. And who the heck was Carroll?

That Ali Koiki from Burnley was decent.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:50:46
I mean more if we have not triggered it yet, drop him before we do. I'm not saying signing him is right or wrong, more keep your options open while they are planning next season.

Thing is the last couple of games Morris seems to have finally stumbled upon a defence that doesn't leak like a colander, considering his reputation was going down the shitter like a log before that its  a risk to make changes now its starting like he has a clue what he is doing.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 13:54:33
So long as the plan is to clear out pretty much everyone, keeping someone like Brewitt is OK.  He's not what I would call a first choice central defender for a top three team, but he is useful enough and generally reliable.  A sort of Rob Hunt for Centre Backs.  Clayton can be developed.  Then you need one or two first choice ones (giving you the option of playing two or three) brought in.

Brewitt > Harries, a dead Baudry etc.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: adje on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 14:12:24




Is he as good as past starting L2 CBs of recent years? No:

Conroy
Preston
Nelson
Baudry
Woolfenden
REG
JOB
Crichlow
Cooper



I agree apart from Conroy and Chrichlow(who was rubbish on Tuesday). I think he's better than them


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 17:42:22
I agree apart from Conroy and Chrichlow(who was rubbish on Tuesday). I think he's better than them

Perhaps I was being unfair. Baffled that those on the LS Pod are quite so vitriolic against him.

Given a pre-season he could be a good steady Eddie for us.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 18:07:09
And who the heck was Carroll?
Canese Carroll was a young loanee from Brentford, played about 15 games in defensive midfield whos career has plummeted since then and now at the age of 24 plays for Oxford City. Pretty poor player TBH.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 18:16:57
Brewitt is fine when heís being asked to defend what is immediately in front of him. He appears to have no idea where he is supposed to stand relative to the rest of his teammates though.

So second half Tuesday, when defending deep and opposition are direct isnít a problem. First half Tuesday, when opposition play it around a bit more, heís all over the shop and creates space for the attackers. Heís a slower, less athletic jerel ifil

No issues with his apparent attitude or work rate - Iíd have him as 4th choice CB, but if weíre going to rely on him next year weíre going to concede a lot of goals (as we have done since he joined)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: oxonrobin on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 18:17:22
Isn't it going to be a promotion achieving budget? That's what was said in the AB minutes I thought?

In fairness it would be incredibly dumb of us to start talking up our budget prior to summer negotiations. Balancing act. Trying to appease our fans, and simultaneously not have to bend over for every transfer deal.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 18:17:41
I disagree he is as good as most of this lot. A squad player maybe, but its more about options. Also i'm not calling a player that injured a colleague so he could play instead a good character.

I'm basing that on what we've seen here and his career history. He's been given the captain's armband here late in games, seems a leader on the pitch, came across well in the OSC interview and is clearly liked by the other players.

I'm not going to hold him up for making one duff decision chasing a lifelong dream as a teenager. He captained Liverpool through the age groups and captained Middlesbrough U23s.  Regardless of what we think of him as a defender enough top coaches who know a lot more about football than you and I have clearly felt he is a good enough character to give him the armband.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 18:31:33
Yeah see people going mad on Twitter that Morris doesnít know his budget (so he says) and that we havenít started talking to OOC players.

Firstly, Iíd imagine the exact figure of the budget will be linked to season ticket sales, any player sales and our released / retained list. So wonít be set in stone in *checks* April.

Very few if any OOC players are going to sign anything as early as *checks* April. They will all likely wait till at least July when they are officially free agents and have a chance to see what other offers come their way. They will most likely sign for whoever will pay them best. Thatís all they care about.

Same fans moaning we havenít started talking to the OOC players with regards to new contracts are the same people who see no positives in this squad and want a complete rebuild. So even if we did start offering contracts in April and the players actually signed them in April - these same fans would then be moaning that we shouldnít have kept the players we kept.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, April 20, 2023, 18:33:49
I'd be more than happy for the fax machine to be one of the many items needing repair right now.  Williams is not going to sign right now anyway, Austin may decide time is up.  Who else needs signing up for another year?

Start working on the target list instead.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Power to people on Friday, April 21, 2023, 11:16:53
You would hope they have already identified some targets, the trouble is if it is Sandro that is identifying them from his spreadsheet then we maybe stuffed already.

You would hope there is still a chance Sandro will be binned, and replaced with someone with some football club experience who role isn't to find players but to assist the manager and other footballing depts with football related matters.

I'd like to know how other clubs get on, check out players on Wyscout then I assume they rely on their scouts and then check data and the manager does his homework on the players etc to ensure they are not disruptive, what they are like under pressure etc etc, then make an approach


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: UTR on Friday, April 21, 2023, 11:24:52
You would hope they have already identified some targets, the trouble is if it is Sandro that is identifying them from his spreadsheet then we maybe stuffed already.

You would hope there is still a chance Sandro will be binned, and replaced with someone with some football club experience who role isn't to find players but to assist the manager and other footballing depts with football related matters.

I'd like to know how other clubs get on, check out players on Wyscout then I assume they rely on their scouts and then check data and the manager does his homework on the players etc to ensure they are not disruptive, what they are like under pressure etc etc, then make an approach

I think it varies. Other clubs go down the same data route but do it very well. Luton and Franchise are two good examples, think they have an in-house team (not just one) of analysts to support the recruitment system headed up by experienced people in this field which is used in combination with in person scouting. The data used as more of a way to trim down a list of potential targets more than finding rough diamonds. Luton are a very good example actually of how it can be done right, theyíve picked up a mixture of experienced and younger players and are knocking on the door of the Premier League in doing so. The obvious difference being these clubs have the money to invest in these players to begin with which is the key to it.

They also have the money to invest in a padded out recruitment team of analysts/scouts to get as best as they can in these roles. We seem to be offering peanuts in the analyst role which wonít attract good quality, this seems counter intuitive for a club wanting to go down the data route although I guess they could be outsourcing this from elsewhere.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Friday, April 21, 2023, 11:31:18
I was having a look around League 2 as a kind of comparison, and it's probably unfair as Bradford are a bigger club than us, but having beaten them on Tuesday I picked them.

https://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/
https://www.bradfordcityafc.com/club/whos-who/

It's interesting that Bradford appear to have a quite structured recruitment team, with a Loans manager, and 3 regional scouts whereas according to our who's who, we don't have anyone. (why isn't Les Cafferty listed?) I thought I heard Morris alluding to a recruitment team, this can't just be Sandro surely?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Million Pound Man on Friday, April 21, 2023, 12:18:16
Carlisles whos who is pretty comprehensive.

https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/news/2023/february/club-staff/


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Friday, April 21, 2023, 12:37:02
It really is stark when you dig into it. I'm sure they are all good hardworking people and I'm commenting on the set up not the individuals but:

Our CEO had never worked in a football club before the Clem takeover.
Our Finance Director is triple hatting as Head of Retail and Head of Ticketing. Never worked in football before getting this gig post-Clem takeover.
Our Club Secretary is under 30 and has less than 5 years career experience. He was doing Academy Analysis 3 years ago.
There is no one at the club with the word 'Marketing' in their title.

This is a shoestring operation, achieving shoestring results accordingly.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: tans on Friday, April 21, 2023, 12:37:20
I was having a look around League 2 as a kind of comparison, and it's probably unfair as Bradford are a bigger club than us, but having beaten them on Tuesday I picked them.

https://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/
https://www.bradfordcityafc.com/club/whos-who/

It's interesting that Bradford appear to have a quite structured recruitment team, with a Loans manager, and 3 regional scouts whereas according to our who's who, we don't have anyone. (why isn't Les Cafferty listed?) I thought I heard Morris alluding to a recruitment team, this can't just be Sandro surely?

I heard he went ages ago, dont know how true though


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Friday, April 21, 2023, 12:43:15
I heard he went ages ago, dont know how true though

He actually seemed OK, but I guess we don't know who does what and has a say on what. Think he scouted Lavinier.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Friday, April 21, 2023, 12:44:29
https://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/

Ed Brand is a big name.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: tans on Friday, April 21, 2023, 13:02:21
He actually seemed OK, but I guess we don't know who does what and has a say on what. Think he scouted Lavinier.

Yeah heís a really nice bloke. Was really good to me when i was having my issues last year


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, April 21, 2023, 14:29:18
Ed Brand is a big name.

Is it fuck, it's only 7 letters for fuck sake. Even I've got more letters than that


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Friday, April 21, 2023, 14:48:57
Is it fuck, it's only 7 letters for fuck sake. Even I've got more letters than that

Yeah, but in 114pt font


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Million Pound Man on Friday, April 21, 2023, 19:52:58
Williams posts a load of Wrexham merch on Instagram....