Thetownend.com

25% => Players => Topic started by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:01:49



Title: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:01:49
A complete rebuild is needed for next season, who would you keep & let go, what type of players do we need and any names spring to mind.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:06:09
Keep Austin, Tomlinson, McEachran, and FBT

I wouldnít be sad to see any others go in all honesty. Maybe Lavinier if heís played in his natural position. The rest are all a bit Ďmehí


Title: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:09:30
Austin, Williams, lavinier, Hutton, Clayton, FBT, possibly mcE.

the rest are either average or too injury prone


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:09:54
I've not seen Brewitt so can't comment but we definitely need at least 2 quality centre halfs along with Austin, Tomlinson, McEachran, FBT, for starters.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:11:19
Austin, Williams, lavinier, Hutton, Clayton, FBT, possibly mcE.

the rest are either average or too injury prone

See, Hutton is another one I donít rate that others seem too. Had a few good games and thatís it.
Williams has none absolutely fuck all since being back from the World Cup, so he can fuck off too as far as Iím concerned.


Title: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:22:46
I can understand the response to both of those tbh.

Both well off where they were at various parts of the year.

I think a fit Tomlinson would stay, but he's so bloody injury prone, and we have FBT to play left back.

khan - meh
Darcy - meh
Cain - meh
wakeling - meh
RHM - meh

I think you can see a pattern forming


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:23:52
Let's hope Morris is his own man with own ideas and knows how to build a decent squad.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:33:33
Itís clear to see recruitment hasnít been great, not as bad as some state, but not good enough.
That is largely down to Sandro, so he needs to be the first to go.

I guess the question is would players like Clayton, Khan & Wakeling have been better with some more experience around them, personally I think so.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:34:27
Top of our shopping list should be a defensive coach who specialises in defending set pieces.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:34:43
Itís clear to see recruitment hasnít been great, not as bad as some state, but not good enough.
That is largely down to Sandro, so he needs to be the first to go.

I guess the question is would players like Clayton, Khan & Wakeling have been better with some more experience around them, personally I think so.

Khan is 27, heís an experienced player himself. He shouldnít need any around him.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:37:47
Yeah itís not necessary experience we lack as much as leadership.

That tends to be more prevalent in experienced pros but not always.
Jerel Ifil played like an inexperienced kid his whole career. There will be players who could leader from the age of 19.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:38:32
Khan is 27, heís an experienced player himself. He shouldnít need any around him.

How many league games had he played before this season?

Iíd say Bellingham is a more experienced player at 19


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 18:47:46
How many league games had he played before this season?

Iíd say Bellingham is a more experienced player at 19

He was only the league below, playing for a former league side against teams like Yeovil, Southend, Notts County, Wrexham, Torquay etc.
Itís not much different coming in to league 2.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:00:57
I hope we get some height into the team as we're no threat from set pieces and concede too many.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:07:02
It has been an absolute clusterfuck this season. In my opinion the owner got the first season right, they have the second one wrong so it'll be interesting to see how this summer goes. If we go into next season the same as this then we are in trouble.

Players like Cain and Clayton look shell shocked to me and are no good to the current model if their confidence is going to be battered .

Our second half back 4 today had around 85 league appearanceds between them with 35 of those being from wakeling upfront.  


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:21:22
On the whole, I think we have our 'squad players' for next year and not much more...

I would keep:

Ward (if he counts!) - Solid inexpensive backup at this level.
Hutton - Decent sub for next season.
Clayton - Something to work with but shocking today.
Brewitt - Decent versatile squad player for next year. Not sure he was at fault for a goal today.
Minturn - Keep but maybe a National League loan to go and play 30+ games.
FBT - Starting XI. First choice LB for next year, or left of a back three. Not a centre back.
Lavinier - Worthwhile utility player.
Cain - Could be a good squad player.
Darcy - A spare #10 on the bench. No more than a squad player.
McEachran - Starting XI. Quality player. Must keep.
Kahn - Good midfield wildcard.
Williams - Starting XI. Divides opinion but as a #10 at this level, alongside some steel, he is quality.
Shade - Flashes of quality, flashes of lobotomy. Option from the bench.
RHM - A good attacking option off the bench.
Austin - Starting XI. If he is happy to stay, we'd be mad not to try. If both he and Williams leave it will say something about ambition.

That makes 4 of the starting XI and 11 squad players.

On that basis we are after at least:

1xGK (Over 25, at least 100 EFL appearances), 1xRB, 2xCB (One 6ft 4in, over 28 years old with 200+ EFL appearances), 1xLB, 1xDM (A hard tackling midfield leader with 200+ EFL appearances), 1xWinger (an exciting, bums off seats, beat your man and whip it in maverick), 2xCF (including 1x6ft 3in back to goal target man.)

That makes 24 players. Round out with a couple of the yoof.

Get rid:

Iandolo, Baudry, Tomlinson (too injury prone), Harries, Devine (too injury prone), Kadji, Roberts, Adeloye, Jephcott, Aguiar

EDIT- I forgot Wakeling, who is filed under 'keep'.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:42:05
Probably about right and shows what a piss poor job of recruitment weíve done. Iíd say itís time for Williams to go as well, for what it would probably cost keep him I donít think he contributes enough.

The only 2 Iíd definitely start next season are the 2 Ralph didnít sign in January, Austin and McEachran. Clayton seems well regarded by many but not even convinced heís up to it yet as heís a part of an awful defence.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: kaufman on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 19:50:27
Hutton will be playing in L1 next season judging by the amount of rumours and interest heís attracted.
In fact quite a few of this squad will either thrive with us next season or go on to do well with other clubs next year.
Morris and especially Brand must see a bright future and surely would have been given reassurances but theyíve also been hired because of their development skills with younger players.
An interesting preseason for sure and M&B will feel the pressure.
This group of players just need a rest and the Lindsey reign kicked out them.
As mentioned above, a season wasted


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 20:14:43
Quote from: Posh Red

I guess the question is would players like Clayton, Khan & Wakeling have been better with some more experience around them, personally I think so.


yeah it's a fair point, agreed


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 20:19:20
That's my view. Sprinkle a bit of experience and quality in there and I think it will raise the level across the board.

I neither think we want nor need a wholesale clear out.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: NotHarryAgombar on Saturday, March 18, 2023, 21:09:26
To some extent budgets will impact - we may not be able to offload some of those on 2 year deals, nor pay McEachran and Williams enough to outbid other clubs.
 Some may not want to be here - in which case we need to move them on, and of course Morris/Brand will no doubt have views on whether some are wanted or not.
Subject to the above, I agree with many of Moneyrakerís assessments apart from
I would get rid of both Darcy - lightweight, pulls out of tackles and poor decision making, and Khan - always a yellow or red card waiting to happen,
I would keep Iandolo as I think his versatility is useful, although he is injury prone, which counts against him.
One thing we need is more physicality - so we are able to defend set pieces better and not be outmuscled in midfield by some teams.
The goalkeeper position is interesting - I suspect the current Ward situation would be unblocked very quickly if Brynn were injured or sent off.
Next season, if we want a keeper who is comfortable with the ball at his feet, then Ward is back up at best. Brynn is currently suffering from having an unstable defence (changing game by game) and no dominant centre half in the back 4/5 in front of him.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 09:38:55
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

In terms of what's required, then that would be a backbone or spine.
So, as a minimum, a GK, one destructive CM and one that can run with the ball from central positions, a mobile centre forward that can win headers in both boxes and a flair player or two with pace, wide MF or forward.
Age doesn't matter, but a minimum of 100 games league experience preferred.

And just to keep Jimmy happy, any new arrivals should be a minimum of 6'6" in height.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 09:54:12
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

In terms of what's required, then that would be a backbone or spine.
So, as a minimum, a GK, one destructive CM and one that can run with the ball from central positions, a mobile centre forward that can win headers in both boxes and a flair player or two with pace, wide MF or forward.
Age doesn't matter, but a minimum of 100 games league experience preferred.

And just to keep Jimmy happy, any new arrivals should be a minimum of 6'6" in height.

Agree with all of that really. We need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater - ship out a few of the fringe guys where we can, add some players that can enforce their will on the game (regardless of age) and lead the side.

There are probably 15 guys in this squad who I'd be happy to see in our 23 next season - but they're mostly as squad players, so the ones that are brought in need to be the leaders.

If we're breaking it down:

No chance of keeping: Brynn

Keep if we can: Hutton, Clayton, Tomlinson (fitness permitting), Brewitt, FBT, Lavinier, McEachran, Williams, Khan, Austin, RHM, Wakeling

Don't mind too much either way: Brann, Devine, Minturn, Iandolo, Darcy, Cain, Shade

Get rid if we can: Harries, Aguiar, Roberts, Adeloye, Massey

Already gone/loan returns: Baudry, Brennan, Kadji, Jephcott


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:15:02
I think Hutton, Williams, Adeloye, RHM, Austin, Iandolo all get sold/turn down deals

Darcy, Cain, Devine (too much of a risk) Aguiar, Massey, Roberts can all go imo, no real loss

Not sure if Tomlinson is jinxed or made of glass? Played 40 games in 20/21 season for Eastleigh.. Iíd keep anyway, local lad and fan and all that.

Be good to hear from our Technical director/Director of football as to what the plans areÖ..


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Ides of March on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:19:06
Would be fine to see Williams go. For a player of his pedigree, I genuinely feel that most the time he looks like a bog standard L2 midfielder. Itís strange as I could see his style of play working much better in L1 and having more success there. In L2, he is often anonymous in games and shows very little signs of a player who has played at a higher level. I assume heís on a decent chunk down here, and if so, heís certainly not justifying it.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:35:58
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

In terms of what's required, then that would be a backbone or spine.
So, as a minimum, a GK, one destructive CM and one that can run with the ball from central positions, a mobile centre forward that can win headers in both boxes and a flair player or two with pace, wide MF or forward.
Age doesn't matter, but a minimum of 100 games league experience preferred.

And just to keep Jimmy happy, any new arrivals should be a minimum of 6'6" in height.

I guess you don't see height as an issue then Bob and prefer the smaller player who can't deal with set pieces in either box🤔


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:43:07
I guess you don't see height as an issue then Bob and prefer the smaller player who can't deal with set pieces in either box🤔

I think you need a good mix, letís be fair you wouldnít turn down a Messi or even a Dennis Wise type player, but you would need a couple of big lads in there too.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 10:48:41
I think you need a good mix, letís be fair you wouldnít turn down a Messi or even a Dennis Wise type player, but you would need a couple of big lads in there too.

Agree that we need a mix and I'm only talking about a big centre half who is vocal and can organise, a centre forward who can hold up play and cause a threat and bully the opposition defenders along with some physicality in midfield mixed with young skilfull players who can move the ball at pace.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Trashbat? on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:04:31
I think Hutton, Williams, Adeloye, RHM, Austin, Iandolo all get sold/turn down deals

Darcy, Cain, Devine (too much of a risk) Aguiar, Massey, Roberts can all go imo, no real loss

Not sure if Tomlinson is jinxed or made of glass? Played 40 games in 20/21 season for Eastleigh.. Iíd keep anyway, local lad and fan and all that.

Be good to hear from our Technical director/Director of football as to what the plans areÖ..

I couldnít care less that Tomlinson is a local lad. We need players that can play week in week out, if he canít stay fit he is no different to Devine.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: bennett on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:08:03
Be good to hear from our Technical director/Director of football as to what the plans areÖ..
That won't sell tickets for the late promotion charge dead rubbers we've got until the end of the season!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Power to people on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:12:03
We need that mix of youth and experience, the youth need to be players that can be developed as well though,  we are a selling club and always will be but we need to keep a squad, not sell the prospects as soon as another club knocks on the door, saving a few thousand pounds about.

I would like to see Clem come out and discuss this season, but that wont be until the season is over, but he likes to stay quiet and in the background, but I think now is the time for him to speak up (he's capable of using Zoom from aussie)

The club wants to sell season tickets for next season and at the moment they are not convincing those that are on the fence that they know what is needed.

There also needs to be changes in the backroom, not just SDM, there is no permanent club secretary, media officer seems to be lacking, there seems to be a lack of people in the other positions, it all needs to be sorted so the club is run correctly rather than cutting corners to save a few quid so it can be spent elsewhere.

I'd like to hear the plan for next season, is SDM still going to be signing the players from his spreadsheet or will they be listening to Morris and getting the type of players needed to build a squad he wants ?

The trouble is if Clem still wants to go with his moneyball plan with SDM.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: donkey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 11:58:21
Given all these late goals, we need to get them up and down the hills of Wiltshire to build some fitness in the pre season, a la Macari.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:01:57
Given all these late goals, we need to get them up and down the hills of Wiltshire to build some fitness in the pre season, a la Macari.

Go back 37/38 years ago I'm pretty certain they would have been running along the Ridgeway early this morning🤣


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: MangoRed on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:05:23
That won't sell tickets for the late promotion charge dead rubbers we've got until the end of the season!

😂😂 very true. Itís a catch 22 I guess, when he speaks, he comes across awfully. Like, shocking -fans get annoyed. And when he doesnít speak, fans annoyed by the silence 😭😭😭


defo need some clarification as to what the fuck has happened this season though, itís been a shitshow and the January window was a double shit show.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: donkey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:07:14
Go back 37/38 years ago I'm pretty certain they would have been running along the Ridgeway early this morning🤣

Perfect!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:41:07
Don't think that wholesale changes are required.
Depends on who leaves of course and the squad does need trimming down, so would expect a few of the fringe players to go.
There is enough raw material for Morris & Brand to work with and to make them suffer in pre season.

Not sure I agree with that, itís the old adage that the league table doesnít lie. Weíre heading for a bottom half finish in league 2 which suggests the majority of our squad are bottom half league 2 in quality.

Assuming Austin calls it quits McEachran and FBT (at left back not centre back) apart I donít think any of the other players are good enough or consistent enough to start every week.

We need 7 or 8 starters for next season to turn things around, thats pretty wholesale. Hutton apart I donít think Iíd offer any of our out of contract players a new deal so that we can free up space. I think we need to accept this squad and the majority of players are actually just very average league 2 players. We overrate a lot of our players based on a few occasional flashes of potential amongst regular poor to average performances. Even Clayton and Wakeling, our much fabled Crown Jewels are they really good enough to start every week at the moment? Iím not sure they are.

Assuming we go back to trying to be a football club with the aim of winning games next season we need to clear as much space for better players as possible over the summer.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:46:15
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:49:47
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?
Indeed.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:50:41
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?
They become squad players not starters. With the exception of McEachran and Hutton (I doubt heíd stay anyway) I donít think itís controversial to say let all our out of contract players go. That should free up sufficient space to bring in some regular starters.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: blinkpip on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:55:50
Will see what happens, but the clues on a decent rebuild usually shows by late May. Leave the recruitment late then it's the scraps other clubs don't want.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:56:42
But they would still be on the payroll. And weíve got a big squad now.  If we want better quality they will cost. Maybe the reason we will probably lose Austin/Williams.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 12:57:23
If there's nothing interest in a few of the players not wanted there's always the option to terminate the contracts if all parties agree.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:02:52
But they would still be on the payroll. And weíve got a big squad now.  If we want better quality they will cost. Maybe the reason we will probably lose Austin/Williams.
Thereís about 11 out of contract and l canít see Adeloye or Aguiar being here next season one way or another. So that would give headroom. Iíve no problem with Darcy, Shade etc being bit part players but in a decent league 2 team they shouldnít be getting the game time they do.

If the majority of in contract starters this season become squad players next season and we bring in new regulars that would substantially increase our squad depth.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:07:15
I canít imagine we are in a financial position to start tearing up contracts at the end of the season.

Nor would the players accept it.

Hell, we donít even know if some of our players have another year left or not.

Fact is, we should be planning next seasons squad now. Get those offers on the table nowÖ


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:17:01
It should be even easier to get the contracts on the table now we know what league we will be in next season!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:17:28
Part of our problem last season was we let players dilly dally over our offers for too long.
Felt like Jack Payne took about 3 months to turn us down.
Plus from all accounts we didnít even get down to contract talks till the end of our season late May.

Get the ball rolling earlier


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Mooneyraker on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 13:26:06
Totally agree. How did we not get Egbo tied down? Seemingly took him at his word and then got caught short. Another example of the absolute sh1tshow that is our 'football admin'.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 14:43:58
Ward: I'd really like him to improve his ball control and become a number 1. He pulls of some super saves at times, but is prone to the odd clanger.

Hutton: Doesn't seem to want to give more than 60-70%. I think he must want out.

Iandolo: I'd like to see him remain, but not as a starter. I think he is a decent squad player, but we need better from starters if we are ever going to get promoted.

Lavinier is an odd one for me. Sometimes I really like him, but other I think he's a liability. He reminds me of 'Kevin the Teenager' as when he tries something fancy and loses the ball, be seems to shrug his shoulders and harrumph before thinking about trying to win the ball back!

Clayton has looked good when partnered with a right footed CB who knows what they are doing. Prone to the odd mistake.

Khan: Has really blotted his copy book with the sending offs. Not sure if he has a history of that? I think he is the best that we have, but we should have a couple of other midfielders just as good if not better. I'd like to keep him with others around him, but, if we cash in, so be it.

Darcy: Can run lots and lots. But, not sure that there is much else there. He looks better when we are on top and winning. He really is a poor man's Payne.

Cain: Another lightweight midfielder who plays short, sharp, crisp passes. Can he win the ball? Can he inject energy? Can he drive forward? I haven't seen it.

Williams: I'm not sure that he will fit in with what Morris wants or what we can afford. If we have to keep Cain and Darcy then maybe we need some physicality

Shade: Was absolutely superb in one half of each of the two games he played for Walsall against us last year (but anonymous in the other two halves). He looks as if he is an athlete rather than a footballer. Unless we are playing him in the wrong position?

McEachran: Has done enough to earn a new contract, but I suspect others will offer him a more lucrative one.

Jephcott: I assume that we wont take up the option. He hasn't shown enough.

Austin: I hope he does another year. I can't see it though.

Adeloye is surely a non-league player. But, I was interested to hear Fjortoft saying that with a run of games, Adeloye is a different player.

Aguiar is not good enough

FBT is a starter at LB

Tomlinson is someone I hope stays fit. If he can do that then I think he's a good squad player.

Devine pay as you play gamble?

Harries looked poor in every game I saw him. Just too slow physically and mentally.

Brewitt looks like a versatile squad player. Didn't do so well vs Rochdale but has done enough before that to show he has something.

Wakeling is maybe an impact sub? Not sure anyone is going to come and pay us a lot for him. Looking at the 3 year contract, I think he will improve in that time.

RHM looks a handful for defenders. I'd like to see him kick on with us next year. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see him get offers.

So, in conclusion, I don't think there is anyone that I would say we 'had' to keep. I think there are better out there, for everyone except Austin. There are no other goalscorers like him in L2. But, can we afford him and can we afford to build around his short comings? Or would be better off trying to get someone younger who is on the way up?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 14:53:12
If you think there is enough quality strikers out there queuing up to play in L2 for L2 wages at STFC that we can just relegate Wakeling to a squad player then I think youíre expectations are too high.

Finished article, no
Great in every game he plays, no
Many better strikers out there available? Probably not at his age.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jamiestfc on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 15:36:33
Hi guys, new to the forum. So hello !
I personally think we should build a team around Brynn, FBT, Khan, Mceachran. Try and keep hold of Hutton, Williams & Austin and improve the surrounding areas with experience. Weíre crying out for some experience at the back and the know how of winning games at this level. We seem to throw away so many winnable games with a big lack in experience. I personally wouldíve kept Macdonald and Gladwin as we have not replaced them!
I really hope Austin stays and we play to his strengths as he has shown can be a cut above the level and the difference for us!
Regarding Williams, I also really hope he stays, Iíve loved watching him and seems to make the hard things look easy. I think weíve been lucky to have him thanks to the Garner link. He does get fouled a lot but I think itís the only way opponents can stop him at times e.g. Grealish. Pretty sure he has also been on the same wage under a wage cap when we signed him under a transfer embargo nearly 2 years ago. He definitely hasnít signed a new one since anyway! I remember Gladwin & Reed were given the same contracts at the same time. Unbelievable business from the club. Would not be surprised to see him walk to be honest though but I hope Iím wrong !!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 17:04:40
Hi guys, new to the forum. So hello !

Hello you cunt


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 18:22:00
If you think there is enough quality strikers out there queuing up to play in L2 for L2 wages at STFC that we can just relegate Wakeling to a squad player then I think youíre expectations are too high.

Finished article, no
Great in every game he plays, no
Many better strikers out there available? Probably not at his age.
What I mean is that I think he plays better and make more impact for the team when he comes off of the bench.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 18:32:01
Anyone know who had the biggest budget in league 2 and where we sat🤔


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 18:50:29
Quote from: Nomoreheroes

Iandolo: I'd like to see him remain, but not as a starter. I think he is a decent squad player, but we need better from starters if we are ever going to get promoted.


regardless of ability and flexibility opinions, surely his injury record is now such that if we get an offer we need to get shot


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 21:43:01
regardless of ability and flexibility opinions, surely his injury record is now such that if we get an offer we need to get shot
Depends on how much we are offered, but thereís a different between accepting a suitable offer and getting shot. I wouldnít get shot, but I wouldnít want him as a starter.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 22:01:41
Too many wearers of rose tinted spectacles. Gladwin, Conroy and Macdonald wouldnít have got us in the POs.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Batch on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 22:32:26
Depends on how much we are offered, but thereís a different between accepting a suitable offer and getting shot. I wouldnít get shot, but I wouldnít want him as a starter.

But whats the point for 10-15 games per season


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 23:15:03
I can't see the transfer strategy changing much next season from this. With the factoring loan arrangement of future transfer fees being paid in advance then we need to ensure a regular flow of transfer income to repay.

So unless there is the next Jayden Bogle or the Ifil lad who went to Brighton in the youth set up, then it's gonna be the ex Academy youngsters and hope a couple come off. We aren't going to sign too many 6'3 League 2 29 year experienced players.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 23:25:08
But whats the point for 10-15 games per season
If we can get better for equal or less money then we should.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Sunday, March 19, 2023, 23:58:02
😂😂 very true. Itís a catch 22 I guess, when he speaks, he comes across awfully. Like, shocking -fans get annoyed. And when he doesnít speak, fans annoyed by the silence 😭😭



You'll only get the billy bullshitter element of bluster from him, may as well wheel in BoJo
for it. The less we hear from him the better. I'd rather Clem put his head above the parapet, lead a press conference like an actual owner and lay down what changes he's going to implement.

It won't happen though. It'll come through a mixture of not so official channels like the STBL, some murmured mutterings via Vic at the OSC and the AB/Rob Angus...it'll either be as clear as mud or very vague in what is actually going to be done. It wouldn't surprise if the PR excuse will be something like:

''With us focussing on purchasing and redeveloping the stadium, which will be an exciting and new era for Swindon Town FC, our expectations and targets on the pitch will be slightly different to previous seasons. We believe it's important to make this step and so this means there will be a much smaller squad in the forthcoming season. With exciting prospects arriving from Pakistan and using club connections we will still focus on a data driven model of developing emerging talent and playing an exciting brand of football not commonly seen by many teams in League Two. With this approach we will convince and entice the future stars of tomorrow to come and train during the summer, with open trials held at Beversbrook. This is a fantastic opportunity for anyone to prove that they have what it takes to be a professional footballer regardless of their background. Xav/Zav will have just returned from Karachi and will be involved in selecting the best of the best from this initiative. Swindon Town FC will look to sign 5 players via this method to compliment the completion of next season's squad.

With all these exciting projects happening at Town, right now is the perfect time to buy your season ticket as the joint venture nears completion, everyone can be proud to support STFC and truly beam with energy that they have finally got their club back.

Once again, thanks for deferring your season ticket refunds and we can't wait to see you pay over the odds for the forthcoming season

Come On Your Tits

Clem Formuni''

===

Yeah, Town fans will 'have our club back' (again) but will likely be a phoenix club playing in the fucking Vanarama South.

Joy.

Division.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, March 20, 2023, 00:01:48
Am I missing something? A fair few of the players being dismissed as surplus to requirements will still be under contract next season. All very well saying bin them off - but to who?

To be fair Aud, Town Power somehow got money for James Brophy, so maybe Town can do a charm offensive, offer a really good bulk deal and convince Crawley to take about 6 of them into the Conference with them?


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Pookemon on Monday, March 20, 2023, 06:42:57
Anyone know who had the biggest budget in league 2 and where we sat🤔
Impossible to know for this season but at a guess I'd say Salford as they are losing £100k per week.   Stockport will be up there too.

We are probably 6th-10th based on comments by Clem and Rob about being competitive but not top end.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 08:56:58
I think a rebuild/rethink/reset is required both on and off the pitch. Whereas last season, when Clem came in and we put together a squad of players, it appeared (for the most part) that everyone was moving in the right direction culminating in getting into the play-offs and being a penalty kick away from Wembley. The fans and players seemed to be aligned and there was a real belief that we could really kick on with what we had built and put together a really good crack at promotion.

Sadly, since Garner and then Chorley left, what was started last season was ripped up and whilst apparently we were putting some cohesive plan together, everything we seemed to do was a bit of a 'punt'. The Sandro moneyball thing sounded 'interesting' and 'odd' in equal measures and installing what was in the end a poor managerial team, (taking much longer than any club really should) as well as losing the crux of last season's play-off squad and replacing them poorly, or in some cases in January, not at all meant that this season has been really poor.

I'm hoping that the fact that Clem is still in England and has been for a while means there are plans in place to overhaul the football side of the club, both behind the scenes and on the pitch. The fact that Jody Morris and Ed Brand have agreed to the job suggests things are not a complete disaster, but the fact of the matter is that the goodwill of last season has almost completely evaporated. It's obvious there is malcontent in the fanbase and i've seen many people saying they are not renewing season tickets next season. This will hit the club hard financially. Whereas last season there was a connection between fans and players, I don't see that this season, there is nothing to get excited about with this side.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:29:49
The fact we couldn't beat Walsall who had not won in 11 and Rochdale who had won one in their last 11, says it all.
Set up to be our worst league finish since I've been going.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: joeydubya on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:41:09
Part of our problem last season was we let players dilly dally over our offers for too long.
Felt like Jack Payne took about 3 months to turn us down.
Plus from all accounts we didnít even get down to contract talks till the end of our season late May.

Get the ball rolling earlier

We is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, we took weeks to recruit the assistant manager and when it was starting to sour, we took the compo and another age to recruit someone in when it was too late to do much in the window - and had a bit of a fire sale before he got there. So i'm not sure it was dilly dallying - probably waiting for something resembling an appropriate offer.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Quagmire on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:43:08
I think one of the most important signings the club could make this summer is adding some experience to the boardroom. Someone like Mark Devlin, who has been around the block at every level. Rob Angus could shadow and learn from him, and it can only help, as we have showed a lot of inexperience with regards to the running of a football club these last 18 months.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: joeydubya on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:44:22
I'm hoping that the fact that Clem is still in England and has been for a while means there are plans in place to overhaul the football side of the club, both behind the scenes and on the pitch. The fact that Jody Morris and Ed Brand have agreed to the job suggests things are not a complete disaster, but the fact of the matter is that the goodwill of last season has almost completely evaporated. It's obvious there is malcontent in the fanbase and i've seen many people saying they are not renewing season tickets next season. This will hit the club hard financially. Whereas last season there was a connection between fans and players, I don't see that this season, there is nothing to get excited about with this side.

Mr Morfuni needs to wake up fast and realise 9k + gates are a rare thing and not a given - if he doesn't act and capitalise on that goodwill, it will set us back more decades.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: THE FLASH on Monday, March 20, 2023, 09:47:35
We is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, we took weeks to recruit the assistant manager and when it was starting to sour, we took the compo and another age to recruit someone in when it was too late to do much in the window - and had a bit of a fire sale before he got there. So i'm not sure it was dilly dallying - probably waiting for something resembling an appropriate offer.

We always take too long to do anything.

keeping the players we want to keep, signing new ones, Lindsey appointment as we were mugged off with the 'obvious choice' quote took too long, even pre season friendlies arent organised very well.

The goodwill has gone and blind loyal fans like me are not in the majority for next season.

Club has shot itself in the foot twice this season.  Its a fucking shame.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: 4D on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:03:36
^ see you Saturday  :D


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:34:07
Assuming this is accurate from the squad list thread, these are the list of players under contract for next season and beyond FYI.

GK - None

Defenders
2. Remeao Hutton - 2024 - 23 - D/WBR
4. Tom Clayton - 2024 - 21 - DC
18. Reece Devine - 2024 - 20 - D/WBL
20. Frazer Blake-Tracy - 2024 - 26 - DLC

Midfielders
3. Ellis Iandolo - 2024 - 24
5. George McEachran - 2023 (2024 option) - 21 - MC
10. Ronan Darcy - 2024 - 21 - MC
16. Jake Cain - 2025 - 20 - MC
17. Ricky Aguiar - 2025 - 21 - MC
23. Saidou Khan - 2024 - 26 - MC

Forwards
9. Tomi Adeloye - 2024 - 26 - ST
24. Jacob Wakeling - 2026 - 20 - ST
28. Tyrese Shade - 2024 - 22 - FRL

Obviously we will be offering other players new contracts but it gives an idea of who is likely to be around next season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:37:00
Assuming this is accurate from the squad list thread, these are the list of players under contract for next season and beyond FYI.

I've tried to keep that list up to date, the only three that have never publicly been spoken about are Brann, Lavinier & Roberts. I should imagine Roberts at least has another year.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:43:13
I've tried to keep that list up to date, the only three that have never publicly been spoken about are Brann, Lavinier & Roberts. I should imagine Roberts at least has another year.

Yeah, noted Nemo. I think your list is pretty accurate, as you say there are unknowns but at least it gives us an idea of the kind of players we are likely to have next season. I think you are probably right about Roberts and I suspect Lavinier might have an option, but we don't know.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: JoeMezz on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:50:47
I thought Lavinier was a three-year deal.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, March 20, 2023, 10:59:00
Assuming this is accurate from the squad list thread, these are the list of players under contract for next season and beyond FYI.

GK - None

Defenders
2. Remeao Hutton - 2024 - 23 - D/WBR
4. Tom Clayton - 2024 - 21 - DC
18. Reece Devine - 2024 - 20 - D/WBL
20. Frazer Blake-Tracy - 2024 - 26 - DLC

Midfielders
3. Ellis Iandolo - 2024 - 24
5. George McEachran - 2023 (2024 option) - 21 - MC
10. Ronan Darcy - 2024 - 21 - MC
16. Jake Cain - 2025 - 20 - MC
17. Ricky Aguiar - 2025 - 21 - MC
23. Saidou Khan - 2024 - 26 - MC

Forwards
9. Tomi Adeloye - 2024 - 26 - ST
24. Jacob Wakeling - 2026 - 20 - ST
28. Tyrese Shade - 2024 - 22 - FRL

Obviously we will be offering other players new contracts but it gives an idea of who is likely to be around next season.
I reckon a few of the 2 year deals will be options for a second year, not pure 2 year deals. Weíd be stupid giving guaranteed 2 year deals to punts but then again we havenít exactly shown much footballing intelligence this season.

Otherwise we really need find a way to offload Adeloye & Aguiar as a minimum as they just arenít going to get game time if we are looking to challenge.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:06:00
Iíd actually like to see Adeloye get some game time between now and the end of the season.
Most have written him off but heís hardly been given a chance. Iíd rather see him on the pitch than Jephcott who almost certainly wonít be here next season.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Nemo on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:09:02
Iíd actually like to see Adeloye get some game time between now and the end of the season.
Most have written him off but heís hardly been given a chance. Iíd rather see him on the pitch than Jephcott who almost certainly wonít be here next season.

It's not a bad point at all, at the very least gets him in the shop window for a summer move.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:22:02
The fact that Jody Morris and Ed Brand have agreed to the job suggests things are not a complete disaster,

I think its obviously the case that something has been aid to them to agree to come here, but its worth bearing in mind that as it stands Morris's win % here is way worse than SL's was (despite it being broadly agreed that he has bought in a few players better than we had before), plus rather frighteningly considering all the gloating about it, SL's win rate at Crawley is better than Morris's is here.

Morris undoubtedly needs time, but bizarrely he ain't doing as well with the same tools SL had.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:24:20
Iíd actually like to see Adeloye get some game time between now and the end of the season.
Most have written him off but heís hardly been given a chance. Iíd rather see him on the pitch than Jephcott who almost certainly wonít be here next season.
If we play with Charlie as a (eefectivly) lone striker in a 433/451 formation then I would like to see Adeloye come off the bench for Charlie after the usual 70th minute to get him at least some game time, there may be a player in there (I remain unconvinced myself) but at bare minimum he will be in the shop window.

Of the OOC players and borderline ones, ignoring FBT, Clayton, Wakeling, Cain and hopefully extending Austin for another year.

I would offload Aguiar as he really hasn't kicked on this season and had poor loan at Torquay.

We have much dead wood in this squad, I would almost start afresh barring a few players. There will be a large turnover of players this Summer.

I would try and sign McEachran, Lavinier, Brewitt and Tomlinson as priority.

I also still think there is a player in Shade somewhere but it will take a good manager to get the best out of him. Similar with RHM shows some great touches and pace but needs to work on his final ball, very similarl to Shade. Both would be handy impact subs.

Personally I would like to see us extend Williams contract but fear he will leave us for higher wages, probably to Wrexham I would think.

Hutton has had some great games but way more poor and if a team in L1 want to sign him for a fee then I would let him go, hes not consistant enough and since deadline day he has been pretty poor in 90% of games. Lavinier is a ready made replacement.

Keep Khan as despite his hot headedness at times hes a decent player certainly for league 2.

Release Iandolo, Harries, Baudry, Darcy, Aguiar, Adeloye, Parsons, Massey and Dabre.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:41:24
If we play with Charlie as a (eefectivly) lone striker in a 433/451 formation then I would like to see Adeloye come off the bench for Charlie after the usual 70th minute to get him at least some game time, there may be a player in there (I remain unconvinced myself) but at bare minimum he will be in the shop window.

Of the OOC players and borderline ones, ignoring FBT, Clayton, Wakeling, Cain and hopefully extending Austin for another year.

I would offload Aguiar as he really hasn't kicked on this season and had poor loan at Torquay.

We have much dead wood in this squad, I would almost start afresh barring a few players. There will be a large turnover of players this Summer.

I would try and sign McEachran, Lavinier, Brewitt and Tomlinson as priority.

I also still think there is a player in Shade somewhere but it will take a good manager to get the best out of him. Similar with RHM shows some great touches and pace but needs to work on his final ball, very similarl to Shade. Both would be handy impact subs.

Personally I would like to see us extend Williams contract but fear he will leave us for higher wages, probably to Wrexham I would think.

Hutton has had some great games but way more poor and if a team in L1 want to sign him for a fee then I would let him go, hes not consistant enough and since deadline day he has been pretty poor in 90% of games. Lavinier is a ready made replacement.

Keep Khan as despite his hot headedness at times hes a decent player certainly for league 2.

Release Iandolo, Harries, Baudry, Darcy, Aguiar, Adeloye, Parsons, Massey and Dabre.

Agree with pretty much all of this, the one glaring thing when you consider the 'model' is that have any of the young players (either at the club before last summer or brought in to develop) actually improved or kicked on over the last 9-12 months, if anything they show promise but then seem to get shitter. Now that may be down to some of them being pushed into 1st team and lots of games too soon, but if not how are they going to improve anyway, we don't have stiffs any more so its a rare behind closed doors friendly at best and we don't appear to have any sort of structured arrangements with local non league clubs, so the loans always seem incredibly haphazard and has a player had a decent loan spell anywhere, and come back better or more ready for 1st team, since Twine at Newport?

Add into the equation we seem to be extremely susceptible to injuries. I am not really sure what is going on behind the scenes?


I'd rather Clem put his head above the parapet, lead a press conference like an actual owner and lay down what changes he's going to implement.


Do owners lead press conferences? I can't think of any owners who are particularly vocal bar the ones who spout self promoting shite and love the sound of their own voice (So that guy from Peterborough and perhaps Vince?)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:51:22
Add into the equation we seem to be extremely susceptible to injuries. I am not really sure what is going on behind the scenes?
This part does concern me a lot.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:58:00

Do owners lead press conferences? I can't think of any owners who are particularly vocal bar the ones who spout self promoting shite and love the sound of their own voice (So that guy from Peterborough and perhaps Vince?)

Clem is painfully shy, he ain't going to be leading press conferences.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Posh Red on Monday, March 20, 2023, 11:58:51
From what Iíve heard Clem wants to model us on what Brentford have done, the problem we have is that works if you can sell players for high(ish) fees, and that doesnít seem to work in L2.

What we need to do is build a team/squad to get us out of this league first and then get established in league 1 first


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:39:43
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:45:38
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.
We, currently, would accept that, buy a player for cheap and sell him on for a nice profit, we have ALWAYS done this.

But these decent players can only really perform consistantly in a decent performing team that brings the best out of them which often comes with a few more experienced heads to guide them.

The failing point of the format though is that when you have an entire team of youngsters that are underperforming so you end with the worst of both worlds.

No quality on the pitch and a team full of unsaleable players who will just be released for free from a team in the lower reaches of the football league and near the bottom of the table, no club would want to buy them for money.

Pretty much where we are now.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:54:13
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.

I look at it like a sliding scale.

You donít 100% go for punts to develop. Similarly you go the other way and sign 100% experienced pros.

Like this season feels a bit 80/20 when maybe it should have been closer to 60/40.
Then as the older more experienced 40% move on. The 60% with some games under their belt move up  (and get trimmed down) to be the 40% and you intake 60% again.

Or even split it squad wise in 3. So you have 33% experienced pros at or close to their peak with no resale value. 33% early 20s with 50-100 games under their belt who we are trying to improve and 33% teenagers with no experience we are looking to develop and slowly phase in.

For example, unlike most - I still think there is a player in Darcy but feel heís ended up being over used in what is pretty much his first full season. Weíve also chopped and changed formation so much heís played in a variety of different positions which probably hasnít helped.

If for example him and Williams had played their role similar to Williams and Gladwin did last season maybe heíd look a bit better for the slow build.

Flip side is, Wakeling has looked decent for the most part. Would he have looked as good playing bit parts.

Some players need blooding slowly and some donít I guess. However, for a few reasons I donít think weíve been in a position or chosen to look how to blood each younger player specifically


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: ChalkyWhiteIsGod on Monday, March 20, 2023, 12:59:55
FBT, Clayton, Austin, Tomlinson, McEachran, Brynn do everything we can to keep.

Would also like to keep Brewitt, think Cain potentially could be a good player in there but not shown it yet. Wakeling is here anyway and definitely shown he can perform.

Most of the rest are either obvious release/let gos or there are issues there (Khan discipline. Lavinier injuries, etc.)


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Riddick on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:00:09
From what Iíve heard Clem wants to model us on what Brentford have done, the problem we have is that works if you can sell players for high(ish) fees, and that doesnít seem to work in L2.

What we need to do is build a team/squad to get us out of this league first and then get established in league 1 first

Brentford is the model, or the latest successful example of it.

The model is not the problem. Sure you can make bigger margins on players in higher leagues, thats obvious.

The model can work in league 2 as well. Too many of our fans blame the model and not its implementation. Its possible to build a squad to get of of this league and stick to the model. The model doesn't mean every player has to be under 25, it just means if you are going to invest in players (non loans) then you need to treat that as an asset that can gain value and not depreciate. Experienced players can meet that criteria, Gladwin signed on a free and was sold for something right?

This seasons failure is down to two things. 1) Appointing Lindsey when he clearly wasn't the best choice. 2) The recruitment which sits largely with Sandro but also with Lindsey has hard far too many misses to be considered good enough. Chorley/Garner did a much better job at the same thing the year before, in much tougher circumstances, and that just shows how shit Sandro/Lindsey were. The connections of Chorley/Garner and their knowledge did us very with a small squad.

Running a sustainable club that looks to sell players and reinvest is the way forward. Sure we would all love the investment to come first, and then hope you can make money from the players afterward but that's not the way this works.

In this model the two most important people are director of football and head coach. I think Morris has something, though i would have picked Artell. Sandro has shown fuck all though, and had Clem not signed Austin ( a worrying precedent to overrule your head football guy) we would be proper fucked at the moment.

Replace Sandro asap and lets start moving forward.



Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:00:46
This part does concern me a lot.
I think it's more the style of how Morris wants them to press


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:08:58
I think it's more the style of how Morris wants them to press
The thing is mate we have had a metric shit ton of injuries all season its not just since Morris has been with us.

I would think we have had more players out injured this season than ever in my 50 years of following Swindon, almost every player at some point barring Hutton, Brynn and possibly Wakeling have suffered injuries of over several weeks out.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:44:49
I think it's more the style of how Morris wants them to press

But again, if they are not capable of playing that way and its just going to cause injury and squad chaos, then stop playing that way. Much as with the formation, Morris needs to play to what he has, not what he desires to do, this season at least.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:53:40
But again, if they are not capable of playing that way and its just going to cause injury and squad chaos, then stop playing that way. Much as with the formation, Morris needs to play to what he has, not what he desires to do, this season at least.
But if heís got the same opinion of the squad as us then heís probably given up in his own mind this season and wants to see which players can play his Ďstyleí next season. Need to be thinking next season now.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DiV on Monday, March 20, 2023, 14:09:21
If youíve got Charlie Austin in your squad then you donít get him to press.

Thatís just stupid management.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: DMC on Monday, March 20, 2023, 14:10:59
If youíve got Charlie Austin in your squad then you donít get him to press.

Thatís just stupid management.
In his defence he doesn't but that's when he ends up playing deep


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:10:07
Just like Harry Kane does!


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:18:11
But if heís got the same opinion of the squad as us then heís probably given up in his own mind this season and wants to see which players can play his Ďstyleí next season. Need to be thinking next season now.

To come in and take over a team in 6th place and after 9 games basically give up on the season doesn't show him in a particularly positive light does it.....


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Berniman on Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:27:44
The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they werenít off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didnít work out.

Weíre at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isnít going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

Iíd like to know what others think the approach should be.

I just posted this in the other thread but it kind of sums up my views on this..

I don't think the moneyball model should be completely disgarded either, i believe it is the right model to follow just in a completley different way to the way we approached it.

Bring in the right people to implement it, gradually over the next 5 years.  Brighton/Brentford didn't try to do it all in the first season, which is pretty much what we tried to do.  Just throwing it out now after 8-10 months of trying is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  If you implement say 20% of your player recruitment with that model in mind in year 1 and slowly increase over time, whilst still having the flexibility to bend the model when required, i believe the end result will be much more successful.

Key to this though is having the right people to implement it, backed up with some "football people" as part of the operating model.

I get that everyone seems to have been burnt by this experience and would prefer to bin it off and go back to the ways of before, but let's face it, we didn't do a brilliant job at that either, otherwise we would be in the Championship now.


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: Jimmy QuitMoaning on Monday, March 20, 2023, 20:08:32
Lots of good comments on why the season has been a failure and what needs to change

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etQR_LwdrlA


Title: Re: Next seasons rebuild 23/24
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, March 20, 2023, 22:25:32
To come in and take over a team in 6th place and after 9 games basically give up on the season doesn't show him in a particularly positive light does it.....
But he wouldnít have known theyíd be quite as poor as they were and probably thought he could make it work once he got them fit. But now it hasnít worked the rest of this season is nothing more than preparation for next season so he needs to get the players that will be here next season drilled into his way of playing and the rest of the players are irrelevant and will just make up the numbers.