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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 979317 times)
Pax Romana

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« Reply #10200 on: Friday, July 24, 2020, 07:05:55 »

I have to take issue with that.  Genuinely, I do believe the Leave vote was comprised mainly of people who felt that there was a better future outside the EU - with increased control of our own affairs/sovereignty as a result of trade deals that we would be able to forge elsewhere.  And some racists, who were always going to vote Leave no matter what.

I do believe that the former group were sold a false, unachievable proposition by the Leave campaign - and that this group is becoming increasingly disappointed as reality dawns.  I don't believe that the country is 52% racist.

I didn't say that everyone who supported Remain thought that everyone who supported Leave was a racist.  I said that those Remain voters who did say "I'm not saying everyone who votes Leave is a racist ..." were in fact saying precisely that they were all racists. 

It's the same as people who say "No offence but...".  What follows is invariably offensive to the recipient.

Potential Leave voters knew this, resented it, and turned from potential to determined Leave voters.

How were the Leave campaign were able to sell a false, unachievable proposition whilst Remain couldn't sell a true achievable proposition?    I'm suggesting that a major reason was that we didn't sell it effectively and instead simply told people that they were idiots if they didn't vote to Remain.
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Pax Romana

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« Reply #10201 on: Friday, July 24, 2020, 07:12:06 »

So, yeah, I do think that and fuck off with your "disingenuous".

And presumably you also think that that attitude didn't contribute to us losing the vote.

I think it did.
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RedRag

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« Reply #10202 on: Friday, July 24, 2020, 08:43:08 »

Then there's those who see the EU as a neoliberal bully of smaller economies, Greece being the most obvious example, and cowardly ignoring issues like Catalonia.

I wouldn't call them morons but......................(sorry Pax)

They should perhaps have pondered the impending, craven dependency on the world's most notable neoliberal bully (even if it is less neo-liberal than it professes to be in matters of foreign trade) and a surprisingly high acceptance of racist police executions.
« Last Edit: Friday, July 24, 2020, 08:45:13 by RedRag » Logged
pauld

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« Reply #10203 on: Friday, July 24, 2020, 10:13:58 »

And presumably you also think that that attitude didn't contribute to us losing the vote.

I think it did.
What "attitude"? That I think lots of people who voted to Leave did so for coherent reasons, but may now reflect that they were sold a pup? Or that I called you out for making broad-brush assumptions about what you presume you know about the way I think? Think perhaps the condescending tone of suggesting people are being "disingenuous" because they haven't said what you think they should have said might be rather more of a problem.

And what "us", come to that. There's no template Leave or Remain voter. The two stereotypes of Leave voters as ignorant racists and Remain voters as bitter metropolitan liberal snobs are both equally fatuous and simplistic. There's a broad spectrum of opinions, of motivations and interests that led people to vote the way they did. You can't shoehorn people into fitting your predefined templates, then call them liars if they don't fit.

How were the Leave campaign were able to sell a false, unachievable proposition whilst Remain couldn't sell a true achievable proposition?    I'm suggesting that a major reason was that we didn't sell it effectively and instead simply told people that they were idiots if they didn't vote to Remain.

Whereas here I would agree with you. The Remain campaign was lazy, entitled and badly out of touch. As a campaign it deserved to lose. And there are still plenty of Remainers perpetuating that stereotype of themselves on Twitter, just as there are many loud Brexiteers on Twitter who fall neatly into the stereotypes about them. Both tend to be easily recognisable by the proliferation of flags on their profiles. But Twitter isn't real life, and the failures of the campaign doesn't necessarily reflect on those who voted either way.
« Last Edit: Friday, July 24, 2020, 10:24:02 by pauld » Logged
Richie Wellen-Dowd

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« Reply #10204 on: Friday, July 24, 2020, 10:18:34 »

I wouldn't call them morons but......................(sorry Pax)

They should perhaps have pondered the impending, craven dependency on the world's most notable neoliberal bully (even if it is less neo-liberal than it professes to be in matters of foreign trade) and a surprisingly high acceptance of racist police executions.

I doubt whether anyone with those convictions would place so much emphasis on trade, so I suspect they'd argue we needn't be dependent on the US. A lot of them surely became Reluctant Remainers rather than side with the likes of Farage anyway.
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"We need not form any opinion about the thing in question or be harassed in soul, for Nature gives the thing itself no power to compel our judgements" - Marcus Aurelius
Banker

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« Reply #10205 on: Friday, July 24, 2020, 12:26:11 »

....The Remain campaign was lazy, entitled and badly out of touch. As a campaign it deserved to lose........

I've always argued that the 'Remain' campaign actually 'won', as the campaign leadership made absolutely sure it was ineffective.

This prescient and accurate personal observation from four years ago highlights how both Leave and Remain key players had similar backgrounds and aims, are of the same ilk, and belong to the same 'set'...

"....this set began obsessing about Brussels. Ruling Britain was their prerogative..."

https://www.ft.com/content/f4dedd92-43c7-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d



« Last Edit: Friday, July 24, 2020, 12:28:01 by Banker » Logged
bamboonoshop

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« Reply #10206 on: Saturday, July 25, 2020, 14:47:14 »

That Hopkins "thing" trying her best to stay relevant at some kind of Jonathan Pie style attempt at humour. She's just an absolute dick.

But ignoring the bullshit she's spewing out, look at her fucking pupils. Opiods much.

https://www.facebook.com/100003827568125/posts/1948245778646322/
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bamboonoshop

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« Reply #10207 on: Friday, July 31, 2020, 02:55:01 »

The most accurate representation of our PM you will ever see.


* FB_IMG_1596161033257.jpg (33.09 KB, 720x701 - viewed 85 times.)
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pauld

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« Reply #10208 on: Friday, July 31, 2020, 18:20:00 »

Today the Prime Minister of Great Britain nominated for peerages
1) the son of a former KGB general who hosted "bunga bunga" parties that said PM attended (having first carefully dismissed his official security detail) when Foreign Secretary. The son is steeped in Russian oligarchs/security contacts
2) A former leading light in the Revolutionary Communist Party who defended the IRA bombing of Warrington and child pornography on the internet.
3) His own brother

UK 2020: corrupt as fuck.
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Banker

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« Reply #10209 on: Saturday, August 1, 2020, 08:41:25 »

Goverrnment are being taken to court, apparently. A hefty near million contract awarded to mates of Gove/Cummings, no tendering.

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Ardiles

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« Reply #10210 on: Saturday, August 1, 2020, 09:12:35 »

Today the Prime Minister of Great Britain nominated for peerages
1) the son of a former KGB general who hosted "bunga bunga" parties that said PM attended (having first carefully dismissed his official security detail) when Foreign Secretary. The son is steeped in Russian oligarchs/security contacts
2) A former leading light in the Revolutionary Communist Party who defended the IRA bombing of Warrington and child pornography on the internet.
3) His own brother

UK 2020: corrupt as fuck.


He won't lose too much sleep over this, I'm sure, but Jo Johnson has gone down in my estimations.  He did seem to have principles...but he's also, clearly, a fully signed up member of the 'club'.
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Nemo
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« Reply #10211 on: Saturday, August 1, 2020, 11:43:25 »

Obviously Jo Johnson looks bad as he's a relative, but as an ex-minister who recently retired from parliament he's a fairly normal peerage. Lebedev and Clare Fox are far more dubious nominations.
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pauld

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« Reply #10212 on: Saturday, August 1, 2020, 12:58:34 »

Obviously Jo Johnson looks bad as he's a relative, but as an ex-minister who recently retired from parliament he's a fairly normal peerage. Lebedev and Clare Fox are far more dubious nominations.
Indeed. I think we all remember the likes of Legends Lounge, Gosport Rob and Outlet Red spitting their dummies about Corbyn being a "terrorist sympathiser" but not a word from any of them about Johnson putting someone who is on the record as justifying IRA atrocities (and kiddie porn) in the House of Lords. Nothing.
« Last Edit: Saturday, August 1, 2020, 15:56:42 by pauld » Logged
jevs

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« Reply #10213 on: Saturday, August 1, 2020, 13:24:37 »

Obviously Jo Johnson looks bad as he's a relative, but as an ex-minister who recently retired from parliament he's a fairly normal peerage. Lebedev and Clare Fox are far more dubious nominations.

He was only MP for 9 years and is 49, it would be normal after a long parliamentary career. it's unbelievable nepotism. I suppose we should be surprised that he hasn't included his father and sister. It's the sort of rank corruption UK news high mindedly points out when it occurs in other countries. Theresa May's husband too? Unbelievable
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Legends-Lounge

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Non PC straight talking tory Brexit voter on this




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« Reply #10214 on: Saturday, August 1, 2020, 15:15:10 »

He was only MP for 9 years and is 49, it would be normal after a long parliamentary career. it's unbelievable nepotism. I suppose we should be surprised that he hasn't included his father and sister. It's the sort of rank corruption UK news high mindedly points out when it occurs in other countries. Theresa May's husband too? Unbelievable

You’ll fit in well here 😉
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