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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 950851 times)
Pax Romana

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« Reply #9330 on: Friday, February 14, 2020, 12:18:33 »

The one I'm really disappointed by is the Telegraph which used to be kind of a Guardian of the right (it had a political viewpoint, but it didn't hide the bias in the news and was sufficiently committed to proper journalism that it would report stories properly so you could easily distinguish fact from interpretation), but these days it's like a shit Daily Mail. Been going that way since the Barclays took over but Brexit seemed to really hasten the process to the extent that it's now little more than shouty propaganda

Indeed.

I read The Telegraph, just before the election, for the first time in years and was staggered by how much it had changed.  It wasn't the bias or even the crudity as much as the pure hatred that stunned me.
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horlock07

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« Reply #9331 on: Friday, February 14, 2020, 12:23:00 »

It very much is the Brexit he voted for, it's just not what he thought he voted for. There's a difference. Own it, bitch. (Him, not you, horlock)

The TBF bit was not altogether serious. As Mitch Ben says

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Ardiles

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« Reply #9332 on: Saturday, February 15, 2020, 08:12:30 »

Indeed.

I read The Telegraph, just before the election, for the first time in years and was staggered by how much it had changed.  It wasn't the bias or even the crudity as much as the pure hatred that stunned me.

Until quite recently, I used to make a point of reading the Telegraph - even though its political slant was to the right of mine - to get some balance.  But I've had to stop.  The level of bile/hatred towards those who disagree with the direction the government is taking is off the scale.  You see it in the pieces by journalists - particularly Janet Daley, Charles Moore and Sherelle Jacob's - and, inevitably, in the comments below.  I would be interested to know how many conservatives have had to give up on it recently.
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #9333 on: Saturday, February 15, 2020, 13:02:45 »

Indeed.

I read The Telegraph, just before the election, for the first time in years and was staggered by how much it had changed.  It wasn't the bias or even the crudity as much as the pure hatred that stunned me.

Not exclusive to ‘far right’ papers I think you’ll find. Media finds its audience and the audience finds its media.
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #9334 on: Saturday, February 15, 2020, 13:04:26 »

Then there were three.  Popcorn
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Ardiles

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« Reply #9335 on: Saturday, February 15, 2020, 14:40:23 »

Not exclusive to ‘far right’ papers I think you’ll find. Media finds its audience and the audience finds its media.

That's true.  But I think the point being made here is that the Telegraph in particular has moved significantly to the right in a short space of time...very much like the government.

These things are very much open to interpretation/opinion, I know.  But (in my view) the government today would struggle to describe itself as 'centre right', as previous Conservative governments did.  It's plain 'right'.  Same goes for the DT.
« Last Edit: Saturday, February 15, 2020, 14:42:15 by Ardiles » Logged
pauld

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« Reply #9336 on: Saturday, February 15, 2020, 15:25:37 »

That's true.  But I think the point being made here is that the Telegraph in particular has moved significantly to the right in a short space of time...very much like the government.
It's not even so much that, as how they've completely given up on objective reporting and analysis in favour of out and out shouty propaganda and some very nasty spleen in some of the comment pieces. They've gone from a sober conservative newspaper worthy of respect to a propaganda rag in just a few years and it's very sad. Although just reflects the poverty of public discourse in that time, but the Telegraph used to lead debate not pander to the lowest common denominator
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pauld

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« Reply #9337 on: Sunday, February 16, 2020, 15:57:14 »

After forcing the Chancellor's resignation and replacement with a puppet, Dominic Cummings has now brought into Downing St one of those "misfits and weirdos"  he was advertising for, who has argued for compulsory contraception to "prevent the creation of a permanent underclass", argued for kids to be given psychoactive drugs as a method of control, "even if it does result in a dead kid once a year" and has argued in favour of eugenics - that's the state using compulsory sterilisation (or execution) to "breed out" those deemed to be mentally or physically inferior. It was quite popular in the 20s and 30s, especially in Germany. There's a word for these kinds of beliefs. And it's not "thinking outside of the box".
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horlock07

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« Reply #9338 on: Monday, February 17, 2020, 10:37:42 »

and has argued in favour of eugenics - that's the state using compulsory sterilisation (or execution) to "breed out" those deemed to be mentally or physically inferior. It was quite popular in the 20s and 30s, especially in Germany. There's a word for these kinds of beliefs. And it's not "thinking outside of the box".

There is an irony regarding the fact that those who seem to be in favour of eugenics are the same who would probably be most adversely affected by it.
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RedRag

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« Reply #9339 on: Monday, February 17, 2020, 12:23:28 »

Although I would be generally be agin compulsory sterilisation and eugenics, it is worth noting that enlightened and liberal Sweden had variously applied this in practice for the best part of a century until 2012

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_Sweden

In less extreme contexts, for example regarding adults with learning difficulties, there can be quite fine moral questions balancing personal freedom with a likelihood of problematic outcomes regarding any progeny.
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GosportNob

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« Reply #9340 on: Monday, February 17, 2020, 14:53:55 »

Earlier in this thread there were many comments regarding Cummings influence on B Johnson even suggesting he (Cummings) was effectively the unelected prime minister. My political beliefs are the polar opposite to most people on this forum but in this case I find I generally agree with the points raised.
However I believe the position is even worse as the leader of the opposition is probably Seamus Milne rather than J Corbyn.
Would be interesting to see the critics of the conservative situation applying the same criteria to Mr Milne/Labour and posting their thoughts.
My main concern is Mr Corbyn reading out a Seamus Milne critique at prime minister's questions.
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Arriba

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« Reply #9341 on: Monday, February 17, 2020, 14:57:50 »

Earlier in this thread there were many comments regarding Cummings influence on B Johnson even suggesting he (Cummings) was effectively the unelected prime minister. My political beliefs are the polar opposite to most people on this forum but in this case I find I generally agree with the points raised.
However I believe the position is even worse as the leader of the opposition is probably Seamus Milne rather than J Corbyn.
Would be interesting to see the critics of the conservative situation applying the same criteria to Mr Milne/Labour and posting their thoughts.
My main concern is Mr Corbyn reading out a Seamus Milne critique at prime minister's questions.

I don't think that's the case at all. Corbyn is his own man and has carried his own beliefs through consistently.
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pauld

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« Reply #9342 on: Monday, February 17, 2020, 15:28:55 »

Earlier in this thread there were many comments regarding Cummings influence on B Johnson even suggesting he (Cummings) was effectively the unelected prime minister. My political beliefs are the polar opposite to most people on this forum but in this case I find I generally agree with the points raised.
However I believe the position is even worse as the leader of the opposition is probably Seamus Milne rather than J Corbyn.
Would be interesting to see the critics of the conservative situation applying the same criteria to Mr Milne/Labour and posting their thoughts.
My main concern is Mr Corbyn reading out a Seamus Milne critique at prime minister's questions.
Seamus Milne is a cunt. Corbyn is hopeless. Happy?

And as someone who voted the fuckers into Downing St, how happy are you with them bringing a self-processed eugenicist and racist in as a paid adviser to the govt?
« Last Edit: Monday, February 17, 2020, 15:40:17 by pauld » Logged
GosportNob

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« Reply #9343 on: Monday, February 17, 2020, 16:17:04 »

I agree that J Corbyn has strong beliefs (misguided in my view) however even ex shadow cabinet members said their meetings consisted of Corbyn reading from prepared sheets and no variation/interruption was allowed.
I am disappointed that rather than give a summary of Seamus Milnes influence once again you use aggression and vile language to abuse someone who may not agree with your point of view.
What influence do you think, If any, does Milne have on Corbyn and his colleagues? Has he got beliefs that contributed to Labour's worst general election result in living memory? Should all use of SPADS be outlawed?
Look forward to your concise reasoned response.
 
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pauld

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« Reply #9344 on: Monday, February 17, 2020, 16:39:11 »

I agree that J Corbyn has strong beliefs (misguided in my view) however even ex shadow cabinet members said their meetings consisted of Corbyn reading from prepared sheets and no variation/interruption was allowed.
I am disappointed that rather than give a summary of Seamus Milnes influence once again you use aggression and vile language to abuse someone who may not agree with your point of view.
What influence do you think, If any, does Milne have on Corbyn and his colleagues? Has he got beliefs that contributed to Labour's worst general election result in living memory? Should all use of SPADS be outlawed?
Look forward to your concise reasoned response.
  
If you were talking to me, I was using "vile language" about Milne, not directed at you. I have no real views on Milne's influence on Corbyn because not being a Corbyn supporter I don't see it as especially relevant. I think Corbyn's hopeless, as I've made clear repeatedly throughout these pages. Why he's hopeless, whether in his own regard or because of Milne, is irrelevant. But he's going now anyway so even less relevant. The man who thinks it's OK to appoint racist eugenicists to a paid position advising the govt is very much still around and is running the country. I notice you ducked the question on that. So is that something you are OK with?
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