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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 380669 times)
horlock07


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« Reply #3570 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 15:48:30 »

So, my original point on this matter - that the EU is in large part responsible for the rise of the right - you agree with.

There can be no doubt that this happening. If not the EU what else is it down to?

Not really, the rise of the right seems to be a fairly cyclical process, I recall for instance things were equally unpleasant in the early 90's, thankfully at that stage they didn't have a national cause supported by high profile politicians and a major party to tie their flag to.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey


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« Reply #3571 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 15:55:40 »

That may be true of France and the Le Pens and, to a lesser extent, Germany but those other countries i mentioned have only seen a rise in the right since joining the EU. It is also affecting those liberal Scandanavian countries.
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horlock07


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« Reply #3572 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 16:01:55 »

That may be true of France and the Le Pens and, to a lesser extent, Germany but those other countries i mentioned have only seen a rise in the right since joining the EU. It is also affecting those liberal Scandanavian countries.

Or since emerging from behind the iron curtain - there is possibly a common theme emerging here, which might also have links to Brexit and Trump..  Hmmm
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey


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« Reply #3573 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 16:10:10 »

You may well be right. At least it makes a change having a discussion without it descending into insults.

No doubt some fuckwit will spoil that later!
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RedRag


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« Reply #3574 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 16:33:35 »

don't know much about the "far right" but it seems to me there are two strands of supporter

  • the wealthier, libertarian neo-con, often well placed to take advantage of change and sometimes with overseas contacts to help prepare the way.
  • those adapting rather unsuccessfully to changing economic patterns (stagnating earnings and job insecurity) brought on by technology and globalisation generally.

To an extent many in the second category (often with some encouragement from the first category) actually conflate the effects of globalisation with the EU itself.  

My view is that a number in the first category propagate an EU-blame culture and masquerade as sharing the concerns of the second category but in fact hold a distinct agenda where the concerns of the second category are dispensable.

The most spectacular rise of the right in Europe took place in the 1930s and, coincidentally (?), found plenty of support in England amongst similar categories as above

« Last Edit: Friday, July 27, 2018, 16:36:47 by RedRag » Logged
horlock07


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« Reply #3575 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 16:38:43 »

You may well be right. At least it makes a change having a discussion without it descending into insults.

No doubt some fuckwit will spoil that later!

Ah fuck off! Cheesy Wink

BTW been out all day and its been very quiet the last couple of days, assume we a) haven't signed anyone and b) thus all are resigned to our apparent fate of non league football in 2019-20 Roll Eyes
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pauld


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« Reply #3576 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 20:34:38 »

Ah fuck off! Cheesy Wink

BTW been out all day and its been very quiet the last couple of days, assume we a) haven't signed anyone and b) thus all are resigned to our apparent fate of non league football in 2019-20 Roll Eyes
FFS, will you please keep football out of the bloody politics thread? Wink
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Robinz


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« Reply #3577 on: Friday, July 27, 2018, 23:11:15 »

Again, from a long way off...

Bring back Nigel @ the very least it's entertainment



COYMR's

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hobodan


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« Reply #3578 on: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 11:26:56 »

What is hilarious, is the rabid mob of unwashed lefties on here describing anyone they disagree with as 'far right'. Brexiteers and UKIP are now associated with the likes of combat 18 and Adolf Hitler Himself.

Ironically the ideologies Pauld and his ilk will go so far to defend, are far more patriarchal with fascist elements than any of these groups. We seem to be living in a paradoxical world, where the left and it's bed budy (islam) have become truly authoritarian and intolerant. A liberal society that nurtures and encourages the growth of anti liberal / authoritarian sentiment, is only going to produce a future of true fascism under the banner of 'anti fascism'. You know today's society is easy when all people do is complain about being offended, or my favourite lefty trick; when someone is offended on behalf of another who is not actually offended.

I can here the shotgun being loaded with those now meaningless and over used terms that the unwashed use. Racist. Islamaphobe. Nazi and so forth.....





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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3579 on: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 11:35:24 »

What is hilarious, is the rabid mob of unwashed lefties on here describing anyone they disagree with as 'far right'.

You won't find many lefties on here....

This is more an evening with Ironside sort of place

http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=33414.0
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Flashheart


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« Reply #3580 on: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 11:48:22 »

Many on the left are not aligned with Islam, or other religions that promote intolerance and hatred. For many on the left, such doctrines are incompatible with their liberal views.

What's most telling is when people focus on one doctrine (and more specifically, it's adherents) in the name of freedom or whatever, while ignoring other doctrines that share similar, or even identical, values...
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RobertT


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« Reply #3581 on: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 12:08:10 »

What is hilarious, is the rabid mob of unwashed lefties on here describing anyone they disagree with as 'far right'. Brexiteers and UKIP are now associated with the likes of combat 18 and Adolf Hitler Himself.

Ironically the ideologies Pauld and his ilk will go so far to defend, are far more patriarchal with fascist elements than any of these groups. We seem to be living in a paradoxical world, where the left and it's bed budy (islam) have become truly authoritarian and intolerant. A liberal society that nurtures and encourages the growth of anti liberal / authoritarian sentiment, is only going to produce a future of true fascism under the banner of 'anti fascism'. You know today's society is easy when all people do is complain about being offended, or my favourite lefty trick; when someone is offended on behalf of another who is not actually offended.

I can here the shotgun being loaded with those now meaningless and over used terms that the unwashed use. Racist. Islamaphobe. Nazi and so forth.....







What we know as Right and Left are modern constructs, they change, and are changing.  As an example, where I am today, the "Left" party appears to be for those on welfare and the "elite", which makes no sense to me, and the "right" party seems to have shifted into appearing to be a party of the hard working country folk and beaten up factory workers/coal miners/Christian fanatics.

I'd happily call you far right or left, whichever label you fancy having.  Your views, as expressed, are a relative minority view (even if closely associated with more mainstream).  You don't particularly like foreigners (old right wing ideology) broadly speaking because they are not like you, specifically having an issue with anyone who associates with the Muslim faith, because a small % of that faith interpret the religion in ideological ways as being far more radical than the majority do.  You believe, not fact, that our very "culture and way of life, whatever they may be, are under attack by their "invasion".  You have some sort of issue with people of wealth, very left wing in old speak, and maybe (this is me taking a leap) think they have some shared goal of controlling the masses (again, very left wing paranoia, but based in some sort of reality I'd wager).

Populism, the new name given to this middle ground fear effort, a bad name as history suggests it broadly won't be more than 50% supported, is fear based.  It's about blame.  It's an inversion of the Crusaders approach.  Instead of going out to convert and protect, we are inwardly pitching that some sort of war is upon us in the West, which Populism likes to suggest is a Judeo Christian faith based culture.  Frankly I have no time for any religions based on my experiences of how they treat people outside their own faith (considering their faith teaches them they are the only ones who are right, that makes sense).

Our own history actually shows we can't even get along for more than a few decades with ourselves without having a fight about which branch of that religion is right.  Bannon is pushing Catholicism as the supporting religion, which means Breitbart has plenty of anti-Semitic crap being posted, ironic as that is a UK issue for the left wing party of choice as well.

My understanding was that the West was about tolerance, about choice and freedoms, about allowing people to make the best of themselves within fair and reasonable laws.  Where business was allowed to flourish and encourage Innovation, but, where we understood that sometimes has impacts in the short term on the people of our culture and we should be willing to give them support when times are hard.  Personally, I'd do away with borders full stop, but that won't happen, they've been constructed since we saw another one of the same of us.

In conclusion, mine, Populism is a bad solution to current world problems.  It is divisive by it's nature, just as Nazism and Communism have been in the past.  Maybe not as openly hateful right now, but their is an end game it can lead to - what if those pesky elites won't give up their world domination? what if they really do come for their guns in the Wild West USA? what if the boats of Muslim Invaders really do seem to be showing up on the beaches?

On Fox there was an interesting piece from a right wing supporter explaining why the left didn't get what USA meant, where he used his Greek dad seeking a better life with no money and just hard work and desire, escaping Nazi Germany creating civil war in his country.  The fact that this individual see's no parallel to the issue we created Syria is all I need to know that current Populism is a death march.
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Legends-Lounge


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« Reply #3582 on: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 12:30:43 »

I was telephone canvassed this morning all about the Election past, present and future voting intentions and of course the Brexit chequers deal.
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RedRag


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« Reply #3583 on: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 12:37:45 »

Hope you didn't keep the canvasser too long when asked about Brexit Wink
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Legends-Lounge


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« Reply #3584 on: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 12:41:58 »

Hope you didn't keep the canvasser too long when asked about Brexit Wink

Oh no, not at at all, it was a fairly brief and painless exercise to answer the options given to me 😉
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