Question and debate with Ironside

[Ironside]

ok, but does that go for the other way round? there is 750,000 british citizens now living in Spain alone, should they have to come home?

For fuck's sake.
That would be matter for the Spanish government quite obviously.

[Talk Talk]

Some political parties don't actually believe in "big government" like the LibLabCon, so yes its exactly fucking relevant.

This is true. For example the UK Libertarian party, who are campaigning for a minarchist state (the state is only there for national defence and the police/law and order). They aim for zero income tax/duty/NI and no VAT, just a local sales tax to fund defence and law and order. They don't unfortunately stand a chance of getting into power for the same reasons I gave about the BNP with respect to the lablibcon.

It's a fine idea to aim for low taxes. However, it is somewhat akin to the proposition that if I were a slave owner and fifty years ago I was allowed to beat my slaves once a week but now the accepted situation was that I can beat them once a day you could campaign for going back to the once a week situation. But the slaves are still getting beaten.

The reality is that taxes and governments never get smaller, they always grow to the point that they go bust and collapse. The Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Ottoman Empire, the Soviet Union and so on. Have you ever heard of a national debt getting smaller? The same laws of bankruptcy apply to states as they do to individuals like you and me. It is inevitable and the west will be next. This global financial crisis is the first major indicator that it is not far away now.

[Ironside]

Exatly right Alan and I'm actually quite keen on their (Libertarian) approach to civil liberties too.

Edit: Funninly enough, you mention them. Devil's Kitchen has an interesting post up on his blog.  I don't agree with all his opinions but he does raise some interesting points.

[pauld]

I don't think there is complacency when it is not a credible outcome.

If I find two rats under my garden shed, it's also not a credible outcome that they would completely overrun my house. However between two rats and a whole nest of the fuckers which will eventually intrude into my house, if not overrun it (because I'll get the exterminators out by then) they can cause a lot of damage and nuisance. So I choose to deal with them when there's just the two. If you want to wait until they're running round your lounge, that's your choice. But that's what I'd call complacent - vermin are best culled early before they cause too many problems

[pauld]

I also PM'd the righteous one to see if he would like to answer any of my questions when I saw him posting earlier this morning.

As far as I'm aware, you've only asked me one question, on how I voted at the last election. Which I've answered: none of your business

[Ironside]

What's your opinion of this oh righteous one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7943556.stm

[Ironside]

As far as I'm aware, you've only asked me one question, on how I voted at the last election. Which I've answered: none of your business

Come on righteous one, if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear right?  You're oh so vocal when someone else is being discussed but silent when asked yourself. Hmmm, maybe you do have something to hide?

[Don Rogers Shop]

I got a joke about two pakistanis going off a bridge in a bmw and the police said it was a shame as its a nice car and actually had 3 spare seats. I laughed a bit, am i racist?

[chalkies_shorts]

If I find two rats under my garden shed, it's also not a credible outcome that they would completely overrun my house. However between two rats and a whole nest of the fuckers which will eventually intrude into my house, if not overrun it (because I'll get the exterminators out by then) they can cause a lot of damage and nuisance. So I choose to deal with them when there's just the two. If you want to wait until they're running round your lounge, that's your choice. But that's what I'd call complacent - vermin are best culled early before they cause too many problems

We live in a democracy and if enough people want to vote BNP, Raving Loony Party or Simon Cowell in then they will get in. Regarding people who diometrically oppose your own views as vermin makes you no better than those you oppose. Dismissing their views makes you appear arrogant and assuming the mantle of saving us from ourselves because you know better than anyone else.
I've listend to Ironside's views and opinions and I don't share them. It is very easy to understand, however, that people are increasingly fucked off at the perceived unfairness where the system appears to favour minority groups and middle England is overlooked. People are looking for someone to stand up to them and the mainstream parties are frightened to even raise debates in case they are perceived as racist, homophobic etc.
Thne challenge is not call them vermin and absuse and shout them down at every opportunity - most people left that behind in the playground. It is to understand what they stand for and win the argument. 

[Talk Talk]

i completely agree with you CS.

Calling people vermin who have the free will to join whatever party they choose and to hold whatever opinions they think right is akin to being a Nazi in my book.

What are you going to do with all of the BNP members then Paul? Gas them?

[Simon Pieman]

I wonder if there is a greater level of sponging off the state from British born people? I bet there is.

[chalkies_shorts]

I will add a caveat in that it is perfectly OK to call Scummers and Margaret Thatcher vermin - I know the latter contradicts what I said earlier and is hypocritical.  

[Gazza's Fat Mate]

Pauld - "I'm right I'm right" shout shout shout "Left wing left wing good good, right wing bad bad bad"

Pauld you haven't come out of this very well. You are in need of a spin doctor. Anyone got max cliffords number?

[tans]

Max is a bit busy at the moment

[Gazza's Fat Mate]

Max is a bit busy at the moment

he won't be soon