Thetownend.com

Needs its own thread, sadly.

Putin is acting like a man who has nothing to lose.  It's like he's been told by his doctor that he has 4 months to live and he's thought 'fuck it, let's go'.  We always knew he was a shifty bastard, but this seems different now.  A ground invasion of a neighbouring state, and threats to Finland & Sweden of military consequences should they join NATO.  How does this end?

Hopefully with a well placed 7.62mm short round.

In time, there will need to be some very uncomfortable discussions about Russian influence in UK politics.  Right now, it's got to be about minimising the danger to the people of Ukraine and going in as hard as possible with sanctions.

You have to accept, I think, that NATO forces entering Ukraine would present too great a risk of escalation - tragic as that is for the Ukrainian people.  So the sanctions have to be swift and decisive.  Cherry picking a small number of Russian top brass, as the UK has done, is pitiful.  You've got to ban Russia from SWIFT and other international payment systems, ban the entire population of Russia from travelling to the US and Europe - which sounds extreme, but I think that's the kind of measure that will be necessary.  You've got to isolate Russia as far as is possible...as that's the only way to weaken Putin at home.

And then - very tricky this - you'll need to give Putin a ladder to climb down.  Johnson was right when he said the invasion had to fail, and had to be seen to fail.  But somehow, you've got to do all that and give Putin a de-escalation route.

It's all very grim. The "unseen" player in all this I suspect is China, who are probably the one power who could get Putin to stop if they wanted to, but they seem happy enough to let him go on the provisos that he waited until after the winter olympics, not least because they quite fancy doing the same thing to Taiwan.

Regime change from within Russia is the best case scenario, but I can't help thinking that if Putin was going be given the boot it'd have happened before. If there is a God, it would be a good time for a bolt of lightning (or a heart attack, I'm not fussy).

Just feel desperately sad for the people of Ukraine, who are - as ever - the victims of geopolitical willy waving.

I agree that a)China is key, and unfortunately it seems that the Putin/Xi summit a couple of months ago has laid the ground for no intervention,  as China has its own agenda with Taiwan for which Xi will look for support from Putin. b) internal regime change is a possibility, and I suspect that there is already covert western activity, stirring up the population at various levels. The position and power of the police and security services will be key to there being any positive effect from this.

The other key players who have not been much mentioned are Saudi Arabia and other major oil producers. The Saudis have intervened at other moments of crisis to release more oil onto the market, which in theory would strengthen the economic situation in the west. However, Putin has recently been courting the Saudis, to what effect, I have no idea.
It is a deeply worrying situation, with few obvious ssolutions.

I have no idea why it isn't being referenced much (not here but in the media), they are reporting this as if Putin has never invaded Ukraine before.
He's been testing the waters in that area for a good while - seeing how much he can push it.

Without any NATO defences set up in that area then Putin's Spetsnaz are more or less free to carry out their much planned pogroms, oh and that the UK is far too deeply involved with Russki benefactors to do anything of real note any way.

Biden can shake his fist for effect and Boris can bumble as usual but neither will actually do anything - unless Putin gets confident and does something more stupid like invade a nation with NATO protection.

But NATO isn't really the lynchpin in all this. Putin fears democracy or at least democratisation. Ukraine being more aligned with Europe (not necessarily the EU) or "the West" than with Russia as an outlying federation shows Putin as weak if he just rolls over.

There is probably a semi-decent solution that would mean little bloodshed...that would be to bring out an agreement similar to something like the Minsk-2 agreement. Only then would Putin recede as he'll feel as though he is retaining some form of control of Ukraine without having to carpet bomp the shite out of the place. It'd be a bitter pill to swallow for Ukraine as they would likely feel their nation still isn't wholly sovereign; sadly I doubt it ever will be - unfortunately the Ukrainian Gov are hardly angels themselves. It is of course the people that suffer.

If they (UK, Germany, France etc) do roll out a version of the Minsk-2, maybe this time the agreement is amended where it actually mentions that Russia have to agree and also nods towards some form of loose sovereignty to Ukraine...

I’ve just been talking to a longtime friend of ours who lives south west of Gdańsk in Poland. Because they share a border with Ukraine and taking in refugees, there is a great deal of tension in the air across the country.

As she said, they are preparing for war.

he's gone fucking nuts

My hope is that this conflict ends in Ukraine. My fear is that it won't.

I'd like to think Putin isn't mad enough to try invading a NATO country, but who knows. A little excursion into Moldova or Georgia could be next.

He's not going to stop at Ukraine is he when he can just piss through the country while everyone talks tough. I don't think the us, EU , NATO or the un have covered themselves in glory.
He's on a roll now and will want the cccp back and who is going to stop him
I felt very sad seeing the Ukraine pm saying we stand alone. He does.
I'm not sure what the answer is but we had at least a month's notice of what Putin intended and he still did it.

Moving comment about the Ukraine pm saying we stand alone. Very sad.

he's right but I don't see what we can do to stop it.

escalation would be even worse.

cutting Russia and their people out totally.     economically, travel, sport, etc, etc. But there seems little appetite to go that far.

kicking them out the world cup and euro comps have even been done ffs

Its heartbreaking watching the news and seeing the scared Ukrainians fleeing their country.

The Moldovan’s are in the main pro Russian as are Georgians.

I wonder how wheretherealredsare is feeling about his own future. Safe to stay in Russia (Kazan wasn't it?), or time to think about moving on?

poor defiant bastards

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-02-25/go-f-yourself-the-defiant-last-words-ukrainians-left-a-russian-warship

was just about to make a dumb arse comment about Russia being safe from invasion until I twigged being a Brit (or any Western European) in Russia may not be best.

wonder what the split of pro/anti invasion are. the propaganda must be huge.

I remember this too, but I suspect stopping information is now impossible in this day and age

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50902496 (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50902496)

Different but the same
Cuba, where USA didn't want a major foreign power with nuclear powers close by
Iraq, where Bush and his puppets including Blair openly lied about WMD
My opinion for what's it worth is Russia will try to dismantle Ukraine and create smaller states similar to Yugoslavia aka what America did there.
If correct
Just hope in the Ukraine region would  not be so deadly as in the Yugoslavia split up.
A side note is...before you pass judgement just look around you and see all the fuck wits in society with their woke ideas and way out ways of living and tell me the democratic ways of accepting everything and everyone is far better than a more authoritarian approach.
Sounding like my father now
COYMRs

There is a lot of competition, but that last paragraph might just be the single stupidest thing ever written on the website

Your side note is pure bollox

Interesting
Yesterday on business in Wellington NZ. Noticed young male adult wearing a dress and a couple of girls with more ear rings in her nose and ears than you could imagine.
Protesters about Parliament with their Freedom approach
Rainbow flags and their demand for non gender facilities
Most all expecting warefare payments to fund their views
Yes the current is working well

What the actual fuck has what someone wears on their body, in their ears and noses or whatever gender they wish to be identified as and whatever sexuality they wish to be etc got to do with a fucking war?

So every cunt has got to look like a "proper man" and a "proper woman" have they?

I can probably guarantee that you are one of those that demands their boiled beef and potatoes on their plate at exactly 4pm every fucking weekend. Which is absolutely fine if that's your bag but why should it fucking matter what someone else's preferences are you total utter cockwallop!

You're so out of touch - you're actually probably more out of touch than your old man RNZ

What a really odd comment to make anyway in regards to a fucking outbreak of war about 10,000miles from you.

You’re a fucking clown

FFS BD, I know I am?!  ;)

Robinz  :girlgiggle:

I've looked. And yes it is.

I'm really grateful to whoever coined the term "woke". It's become a really handy way for me to identify empty headed blowhards online that I can just ignore.

Yeah, I ignore the woke lot too.

Touché  :girlgiggle:

Suggest that Russia simply had a enough of the West including Britain of clowning around.
Foreign minister Truss not knowing the difference between the Black Sea and the Baltic when meeting with Lavrov.
Johnson to busy trying to dig his way out of a hole with his parties during lock down.
Biden also busy covering USA tracks after withdrawing from Afghanistan like they did. 
As stated, just look around see what a mess Western society has become.
Lack of proper guidance, morals and especially discipline. 

If you are serious in wanting to know what has caused the issue in Ukraine today suggest you take time out and watch   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

That said, I suggest China will be the big winners if there are any.

Looking forward to seeing Town win today COYMRs

I'd rather be the type of person described as "woke" than the type of person who uses the word as an insult. The latter usually has no idea what it means.

The former usually doesn’t have a clue about the really world either.

Poland are refusing to play Russia in their play off qualifier now. It will be interesting to see how Infantino responds to this one.

Really well explained by a caller in to James O'Brien's show here...

https://youtu.be/FR4rHPpoPHQ

He won't answer the fucking question😡

Interesting that you still chose to live in a liberal democracy though isn't it. There's plenty of authoritarian states around to chose from.

Woke, snowflake, commie, fascist, gammon, remoaner - all extreme terms to demonise those who have a different view of the world so as the users will feel better about their own view.
I'd rather live in a woke world than an authoritarian one. As I'm an old git I don't understand a lot of the labels around sexuality, for example, but not understanding it is no reason for disrespecting it. There is virtually nothing that impacts my world and I'm not going looking for it so let it be.

Well said, this is pretty much how I see it as well.

It's a little bit sad and ironic that on a thread about a disastrous war in Europe we are having these discussions.

All we are saying, is give peas a chance.

Well said and sooner rather than later.

Think every football club should have the Ukrainian flag stitched on their shirt. This madman must be stopped,
 not war it's murder.

The cheesemakers will inherit the Earth.

Yes, I do believe in a society with democracy and the right to live in a free world.

What I am saying is... should our society accept generations of under achieving and lacking of discipline from minority groups that seems to thrive with the current liberal type with the don't worry attitudes that anything goes.

Something has to give and reality has to prevail or the Western society that we have grown up in will be taken over both business and military wise. Possibly already has.

With all the new sanctions against Russia... Why has nothing been done against China and their persecution of Uyghurs Rumour has it over 2 million innocent Muslims imprisoned or killed.

Come on Joe next it will be Taiwan.

 

        

Robinz, please.  This is a thread about the invasion of a European country.  You've started off, completely unsolicited, on a culture war diatribe...that I'd imagine very few on here want to hear about right now.  Give it a rest, will you.

‘If you tolerate this, then your children will be next’

I thought it was Rix?

Interesting to see Xi has urged Putin to negotiate.

Day 4 and the valiant resistance to unprovoked aggression continues.

Have to say, very impressed with how Volodymyr Zelenskyy has conducted himself, bearing in mind he was a comedian with no political experience prior to running for office.

Yeah, fear of escalation, I understand that, but leaving them on their own still doesn't sit right.
Is it just kicking the can of an inevitable confrontation further down the road?
Don't know.

If sanctions begin to bite, and there is still plenty of room for manoeuvre here, then hopefully machinations within the Kremlin would see the head of the snake removed.
Time will tell.

Interesting post and brings to the fore somethings I have been thinking of.

1) Politicians end up being comedians.
2) I do not believe they are being left on their own, far from it, however, clearly not backed up with boots on the ground for fear of full escalation. I firmly believe that there is more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye and due to intelligence and secrecy protocols MSM will be left out in the cold. It has been said that a spy satellite can take a picture of you reading a paper in your garden and even what you’re reading. If true the satellite images being fed to the MSM are as clear as an early Edison tv picture. Sanctions? Again anyone can only trumpet their own beliefs and what is being reported, more going on there too.
3) One thing has become apparent is that this has not been a piece of piss for Putin and if it drags on Putin can only lock up so many of the Russian population who will rise up against him as the death toll rises and the sanctions bite. To compound that it will expose the Russian military machines weaknesses for all the world to see.
4) China may well be pivotal in all this but even they wouldn’t want the free world to turn against them. The end of the Second World War in Europe is and will be fresh in people’s minds for another 100 years. No one wants to see that again and if Putin is not stopped he will not stop there.
5) Good time to book a holiday in Cyprus this year.

Belarus to send troops to help Russia.

fucks sake

It's surprising that Putin hasn't used his aerial threat much

Russia preparing for Nuclear Warfare. Here we go. Blaming the West again, saying it’s deterrence measures. This cunt is an absolute nut job.

is that opinion or something he's said?

edit: https://news.sky.com/story/russia-vladimir-putin-orders-military-command-to-put-nuclear-deterrence-forces-on-high-alert-12553278

Does he think Russia would evade a response? Tool.
No one person should be allowed that responsibility.

If true, that is a bit desperate.

nukes = MAD = nobody wins. nothing left to rule

it's like being in the 80s again

Forget waiting for NATO borders to be breached the West needs to get their act together.....now!

and do what exactly?

Ah the ‘80’s what a decade.

It is no coincidence that the Russian ambassador has not been expelled.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-and-russia-set-to-hold-negotiations-at-belarusian-ukrainian-border-says-office-of-president-zelenskyy-12553294

I wouldn't hold much hope putin will expect Ukraine to surrender if not carry on. No mention of a ceasefire either.

Putin seems mad and heartless enough to push the red button. Where he will aim nuclear weapons is the question. Some commentators are saying it could well be us as we're no longer a member of the EU. I'm not saying that's true but does seem a possibility. What I think is definitely the case is that this is the most under threat from nuclear war Britain has been in my lifetime.

TBF most of europe hated us even before Brexit. It wouldn't massively surprise me if we were in line 1st.

Not sure its the closest we have been in my lifetime as it got shakey in the late 70's early 80s but definately since before many of us were born in 62 during the Cuban missile crisis and then that was aimed far more at the US than the UK.

being part of NATO, he'd be nuts. I mean he may well be ..

NATO contains 3 of the 5 nuclear powers and is:

ALBANIA (2009)
BELGIUM (1949)
BULGARIA (2004)
CANADA (1949)
CROATIA (2009)
CZECH REPUBLIC (1999)
DENMARK (1949)
ESTONIA (2004)
FRANCE (1949)
GERMANY (1955)
GREECE (1952)
HUNGARY (1999)
ICELAND (1949)
ITALY (1949)
LATVIA (2004)
LITHUANIA (2004)
LUXEMBOURG (1949)
MONTENEGRO (2017)
NETHERLANDS (1949)
NORTH MACEDONIA (2020)
NORWAY (1949)
POLAND (1999)
PORTUGAL (1949)
ROMANIA (2004)
SLOVAKIA (2004)
SLOVENIA (2004)
SPAIN (1982)
TURKEY (1952)
THE UNITED KINGDOM (1949)
THE UNITED STATES (1949)

agreed, if not surrender and become a sub state of Russia then certainly something unpalatable - e.g. handing over the more Pro Russia bit

There in lies the root of the problem, the man is blatantly deranged and probably some form of sociopath or possibly psychopath as Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Kim Jong-Un, Napoleon et al that have gone before him.

Probably not adding much to the debate overall and at the risk of being jabbed by the pointy end of an umbrella, but Putin needs to die.
Sooner the better.

I wonder what Gorbachev thinks of all of this.
Also wonder how Trump would have dealt with the crisis. It could have been anything between fronting up to inserting nose up Putin's backside.

I’m guessing go in hard on the Russian invasion. Let’s take nukes out of the scenario, no one wins in a nuclear war, even Putin knows that as deranged as he may be. The Russian military impressive in its numbers maybe, but is way behind NATO when it comes to technology. I’ve copied and pasted the following info off another site so not my words or my opinion either:

Combined, NATO will gain total and complete Naval & Air Superiority, in which they will field over 25 Aircraft Carriers, 100 Guided Missile Destroyers, 40 Cruisers, Etcetera. It's also true that NATO will have over 16,000 Aircraft, with the F-35, F-22, F-15, Eurofighter Typhoon, F/18 Super Hornet, F-16.

 The United States of America possess over not only 345 Fifth Generation Fighters, but with NATO there will be over 355. Russia & China only possess around 20–30. Now! Let's get into the fun stuff.

The M1A2 Abrams SEPv3, Challenger II, Leopard II, Leclerc, Anti-Tank Strykers, Patriot & Avenger Missiles, Javelins, Stingers, Apache, Viper, Eurocopter Tigers and MLRS's would be tearing Russian & Chinese Aircraft and Armor to shit.

I'll include the Special Operations Forces, for all of my British Readers. The Chinese PLA Spec Ops & Russian Spetsnaz would be getting hammered by the British SAS, French GIGN, American Delta Force, Navy SEALs, MARSOC, Night Stalkers, Rangers & Green Berets.

I don't mean to take away from our European Allies, but, I'm going to have to for a moment.

The United States Armed Forces possess the best technological edge on the battlefield due to extreme funding, achieving superiority in nearly all aspects, such as the ability to highlight adversaries through dust, fog, sun, moonlight, shoot around corners and over the foxholes without peeking any piece of their body in view, creating body armor that can shatter a 7.62x45 Round right against it, or how about creating a laser that slices an RPG in half before it hits the Humvee? This is all combined with the NATO Countries, not to mention their individual technology and research.

Now, European Nations are much smaller and less advanced than the United States, but it's not to say that they can't fuck shit up as well.

They have to train long and hard to make sure that their troops are combat ready to face any threats to their continent, specifically because they're smaller. Yeah, sure, they depend a lot on the United States, but it's not like they're weak for doing that.

Russia,

You better start saving up for the day you have to rebuild your country after fucking with NATO.


As I said not my words, but obviously an American with far more knowledge than myself.

NATO going in makes things far far worse IMO. Likely to start WW3

edit : soapy tit wank, Americans. They couldn't even beat the Taliban despite their superior weaponry

Neither could the Russians 😁

As I said not my words or opinion. Would it start a war? Probably. Would Putin actually launch a nuke at NATO? Unlikely I think IMO as he would surely realise Moscow would be toast shortly after.

Putin needs this over quickly. Things will get ugly in Russia from tomorrow, there's already a run on banks today. Economically they're fucked for decades as a result of this. Even their propaganda machine can't cover up the fallout.

As I read somewhere else earlier, Russian military failures typically lead to Russian political revolutions.

It just depends whether this one ends with Putin in jail or with his head on a stick.

I have nothing but sincere respect for the Ukrainian people. To have this thrust onto them and to react like that have, nothing but pure solidarity and respect to their cause. The fight the Ukrainians are putting up and the sanctions imposed seem to be starting to bite with the Central Bank unable to access international assets, disconnected from SWIFT…

Not mentioning on the home front facing more than 5,000 Russians arrested for protests against Putin, Russians draining ATMs like bath water down the plug hole…

Fundamentally Putin’s time to make this stick is running out and is only going to get more desperate in his attacks which I believe will end up in failure. Even if the Ukrainian Government is overthrown, Putin will still have massively lost this war. China is Putin’s only option for finance is China and even they don’t want to get involved.

The whole moving nukes to Belarus shows how desperate Putin is to get this done but I don’t think he would be that unhinged to actually launch it. Imagine for a second that he did, then what? Surely enough is enough where the likes of China will not be able to avoid condoning Russia’s actions.

IMO, I think we should play Russia at their own game and black flag invade Russia, go to Moscow and topple Putin in a rapid raid. Put the old dog down once and for all and then deny all knowledge anyone from the West was involved :)

FIFA have now made a decision on Russia matches. Neutral venue, no flag, no anthem and they have to change their name. Fucking joke. So as it stands Russia has a bye to the world cup finals as others won't play them.
It looks like the hacking group anonymous have been Ukraine's greatest ally taking down several russian govt depts, Russia today was playing the Ukraine national anthem and they've stopped access to pornhub from russians.

It doesn't look like Putin is preparing for peace
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_gDmMVzjIVw

if he can get a split of the Ukraine so some is given to Russia will that be enough ?

if imagine a massive convoy heading to the capital will help apply pressure

That's an intriguing question but not sure the Ukrainians want to give anything up and wil fight to the death literally. It's interesting that Russia haven't really attacked much from the air apart from cruise missiles and rockets.

Lots of posturing from Putin regarding nukes. As for Belarus "joining" Russia with troops - biggest of all soapy titwanks ever. Plus it's more likely Putin "ordered" them to join.

I think context here is that the only countries Putin really can land grab are either historically weak, former soviet or very small in a political sense (Georgia, Moldova (but he's need to already have control of Ukraine for this) or Belarus) and non-NATO. He's literally just a bit of an unhinged bully who doesn't like democracy.

He won't (I'm 95% sure, there is a tiny smidge of doubt) attack a NATO nation or he would have gone after Latvia or Estonia. Considering there are not many other realistic border options to bully (Rule out China and USA straight away), it would only leave Turkey (has to have Georgia first) and there is not a cat in hell's chance Erdogan would let that happen - he's more likely to retaliate firmly and with the backing of NATO forces it just isn't happening.

I also think that if he opted to order his "excursions" be taken further east, the weaker this "war" on Russia's position becomes. As I said - it comes back to posturing.

Other than getting some agreements that suit him - I can't see much else that Putin gets out of this (talk is cheap, you can demean the "west" for all eternity and spout about it but it means nothing) other than trying to take away the democratisation/sovereignty of a (clutch of) nation(s) which used to be part of the Soviet state. Which of course is unfortunate for that/those bloody nation(s) but in the larger political and economical world it won't bear any economical fruit for Russia.

Unless he's planning on having some huge Russian, state owned wheat producing factory to supply the world with "Putinabix" or "Putin's - The Oligarch's Flour of choice (with Royal seal of approval)" then there really isn't much of a win out of this other than an incredibly narcissistic and sociopathic one. If he did somehow achieved this, I hope the majority of the world leaders turn around and says "Ahh Putes mate, most of us are declaring ourselves celiac now, we don't need your worthless flour, sorry pal".

Putin is coming across as pretty much a scorned ex that can't let go of others making progress so will try anything to stop them - like asking his wimpy mate (that's Belarus) to help out.

All sarcasm, satire and things aside - I genuinely do feel for the people it is impacting the most - the lives that have been lost in Kharkiv and will be lost there and elsewhere for a little while longer. Having watched (and spoken to several) possibly a couple hundred clips over this weekend, of people in Kharkiv documenting this conflict in real time and I will say very much different to that of the main news networks. I can only be personally astounded at the bravery, stoicism and importance that their footage has meant in much more than just "trying times" for them. The sadness of not knowing if these people will even get the opportunity to document again - this is why I herald their bravery, normal citizens just like you or I but they are informing and thinking of the world in a wider sense when at this moment no one would begrudge them for only thinking of themselves; yet they choose to show us what is really happening and their own personal struggles.

I hope when this is all done I can visit some of those people that I have spoken to and get chance to listen to their story first hand. Hopefully that will be in something that looks like a largely "free" Ukraine and where their citizens feel safe to live and call home x

https://twitter.com/johnnymerceruk/status/1498027274683174913?s=24

Even better was the best thing they did. Hacked ALL the National tv channels and made all of them simulatanoeusly play the real news about what has gone on in Ukraine so far.

Rules of engagement technically wouldn't apply if this strategy had to be undertaken to deter the advancement of Putin's convoy...not my words but a friend who was a former WSO in the RAF.

Something like a nice strategic (and non civilian risking) Taurus ASM decoy sent out about 4 or 5 miles ahead of that convoy would scupper things for a bit with the message of "Oh whoops, it appears your route is going to be blocked Putin mate".

 I'm sure that the possibility of options like this have been considered/looked at and he did say it with a chunk of salt pouring from his palms :)

I wonder if Vlad understands that, despite all his posturing and rhetoric about his actions being taken to secure the security of Russia, the biggest threat to the security of Russia is its president?

Talk about hitting them where it hurts.

Putin has instigated quite the change and not what I suspect he calculated would happen.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1498101441814310914.html

I'm surprised Russia haven't attacked from the air making easier for their ground troops to progress

Roman Abramovich involved in ‘Peace talks’ with Ukraine

Thinks he is some billy big.....

The death toll…

I didn't put Putin down as the sensitive type!

Given that him and the rest of the oligarchy are probably bank rolling the war, and likely to have to prop up the country for the foreseeable, he might want it over sooner rather than later.

I think the fact that they have been firing missiles into apartment blocks also rather dispels the suggestion.

The one strange thing has been why Russia didn't take steps to disable Ukrainian air forces before they put boots on the ground.

Maybe the missile that hit the apartment block went of course similar to when we were at war in Iraq. As you say it's mystifying why Russia didn't take out the Ukranian Air Force before enetering on foot and still surprising that there hasn't been a shock and awe response from Putin which may suggest his army isn't as strong as he proclaims excluding his Nuclear threats.

27th February: “Roman Abramovich has absolutely no connection to President Putin”.

28th February: “Roman Abramovich is using his close connections to President Putin to broker a peace deal between Russia & Ukraine”.

did he take fried chicken?

Apparently Ukraine requested that Abramovich be involved..

I see our Foreign Secretary when not playing with her dressing up box and cosplaying has also managed to trigger Putin to start with the nuclear rhetoric....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMruXtIXIAMvRcp?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Loath as I am to defend Liz Truss, I imagine the Kremlin spokesman is saying the thing he thinks will be most divisive, rather than providing an honest account of that situation.

Possibly so, whatever way one looks at it her statements were at best pretty fucking stupid, if a British person had followed what she suggested possible they would have been committing a criminal offence under British law!

I don't think Putin gives a flying fuck what truss or any other British politician has to say. I don't think Putin gives a flying fuck what anyone other than Biden and his lot say.

I really, really find stupefying that you believe this shit. Sometimes you come with some insightful stuff and I, yes I, find myself agreeing (psst, don’t tell the others), then you post this.

It's on the main news channels LL.

I think he meant he doesn't believe the Kremlin when they say this was a reaction to Liz Truss.

She isn't the best tbh, but you can see his point

Ah OK.

Oh I can see his point entirely and don't disagree, but it just shows what a fucking shit show our leaders are when they are making stupid ill-informed statements which are easily grasped to inflame matters further, fuck sake if the Ruskies wanted to take it to its propaganda extreme they could argue she basically declared fucking war, whereas most would accept she is just showing that she really hasn't got a clue what she is doing!

Problem when all your statements are intended for a domestic audience only, rather ignoring that other countries speak English.

Recent events by Putin's Russia, and Europe's reactions, might re-kindle the pre-Brexit desire of elements of the European Union to form an integrated European Army, especially now with Germany's 2% of GDP on arms and fears abot NATO not being strong enough.

Off topic slightly, but seeing the brilliant leadsership from the likes of Zelensky and Klitschko over the past week, could you imagine Johnson & Khan donning flak jackets and bearing arms?

I couldn't.

Paul Gascoigne has been contacted by the UK Government as potential peace envoy in part of negotiations...

Its been interesting to see those who warned of an EU army now chiding the EU/Germany for not doing enough on defence. I think the big change that Putin has inadvertently facilitated is a pretty unified Ukraine, unified the EU, pushed Finland & Sweden to consider NATO membership, whilst there are more strategic views being taken, EU to announce for the first time ever EU funding for weapons to be immediately provided for the Ukranian army and EU to close down EU airspace to ALL Russian planes.

Germany's decision to double its military budget is a major change. It will further enhance the development of EU military structures (Not an EU army) and also significantly strengthen NATO, downside for us is that it potentially renders the UK more marginal than ever.

The UK (marginally) and then Government made it's bed so now we all have to sleep in it - for now.

Part of me still thinks there is a potential route back in somewhere down the line. Albeit possibly a grovelling and begging type route back.

Did you see this, thoughts and prayers are with all you in Swindon as you are in grave danger as the front line has apparently moved to Brize Norton!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMmYfBMWYAEW2PB?format=jpg&name=large)

Liz Truss cosplay is famous

Not in a way setting, obviously

Looks like FIFA are finally suspending Russia and Russian teams from competition. And rightly so.

Yesterday's ridiculous measures were an insult.

That's a relief, I feared he was directly implicated.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMsNthgWUAQoUAr?format=jpg&name=900x900)

I notice they're carefully not mentioning Sergei's clear links to the Putin regime, or that baby Oleg is a KGB apparatchik.

Hang on, I didn't know that Zelenskyy provided the voice for Paddington in the Ukrainian dub of the two films!

FIFA and UEFA ban Russia from all competitions

Properly or just the surreal shit about not using Russia name?

Sent from my SM-A125F

properly

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/qatar2022/media-releases/fifa-uefa-suspend-russian-clubs-and-national-teams-from-all-competitions

"Bearing arms" as in rolling up his sleeves,Johnson's pretty good at that

Nope, no more, no less than Capt Hindsight. I could however, see Oh Jeremy Corbyn and the communist poster boy of this forum waving them up the beaches as they land in the U.K.

whatabout  the krankies
whatabout Gordon the gopher.
whatabout

I'm not exactly Corbyn's biggest fan, but he's but exactly welcoming them:

"Russia’s shocking invasion of Ukraine will inevitably lead to more fear, misery and death.  It is a frightening escalation of the ongoing crisis.

Russia must withdraw its troops and return to diplomacy.  If it does not, dark days are ahead for Ukraine, Russia and all of Europe."


that and it's totally irrelevant what he thinks

Haven't read back but hopefully there are no further suggestions that politics should be kept out of sport   :hmmm:

Yes, what about them? They’re free (at the moment) to join in.

Why?  Putin is many things, fucking bad things, but Communist he most certainly is not.  Russia is about as far away from the "ideals" of Communism as you could hope to get.

Quote from the man himself:

“Modern Ukraine was entirely and fully created by Russia, more specifically the Bolshevik, communist Russia,” Mr. Putin said. “This process began practically immediately after the 1917 revolution, and moreover Lenin and his associates did it in the sloppiest way in relation to Russia — by dividing, tearing from her pieces of her own historical territory.”

He fucking hates Communism, no place for that "we are all in together" malarkey.

I'm trying to figure out who LL is nominating as the TEF's "communist poster boy" and who has huge association with Jeremy Corbyn...  :hmmm:

I'll gladly nominate myself if it's enough to get some in a lather. Didn't take long for someone to bring out the "but Corbyn" banner did it? Of course it woz all im what started it ::)

First authoritarian loving (yet ironically, freely and liberally living in NZ) and a disdain for anyone different to them - Robinz. Followed closely by the TEF Trucker spouting misinformation to occlude the truth, just to get some form of dig in at JC - strange.

Nearly as strange as my totally and obviously really difficult cryptic posts on this very forum. I'd love to know what "Bouncy Mark" thinks about it all ;)

Putin was a man moulded by the latter era Soviet Union. That was barely a communist state, but an oligarchic semi-feudal society where the labour force was living hand to mouth and those in power made as much money as they could. I don't really see much of a difference between that and modern Russia, except for the fact that modern Russia is, hilariously, more a fascist autocracy.

This will not go nuclear, to anyone concerned, because if it did, China has the most to lose. Any engagement of that scale means China loses its footing as the world's leading economic power, because there will be no more world economy. They are very happy living in (relative) peace while the west gives them all our money and the rest of the world gives them all their resources.

I don't think it's been touched on anywhere, but Putin is nearly 70, despite all the plastic surgery and attempts by russian media to paint him as a timeless demigod. It's entirely possible the man's becoming senile or suffering from dementia. He hasn't faced this kind of internal backlash since the sinking of the Kursk, and all signs point to his cachet and influence being lower than ever. He's propped up in his regime by the billionaires he created, but now they are seeing their assets frozen, and value decrease on an almost hourly basis, while the average russian (who , let's be frank, he doesn't care about) sees price rises that would make even British Gas blush. At some point, he is going to be deposed or killed by someone in Russian high command, particularly if he threatens nuclear usage. I don't even think his deposing would be beyond China's ability, who could enplace a puppet to control their largest ally.

Ukraine still has planes (amusingly the Soviet era designers built them to operate from dispersed rough airfields, so they could slread them out and hide them from initial strikes), their people are well motivated, they are not going to run out of arms any time soon, and the average russian soldier does not want to be there. Non-soviet Russia has militarily intervened in places it shouldn't in the past, and every time the Russian army has been shown to be poorly motivated, oft times badly led, and wholly ineffective for the size of force used. In places like Georgia or Crimea ,yes the Russians met their strategic aims, but Georgia wa tiny, isolated and did not share a western border with NATO, and Crimea, well, the US, EU, and NATO were stymied by the Russian apologists who were ensconced in positions of power so sat on their hands.

Putin will come out of this conflict weaker than he went into it. Weaker in support at home and abroad, weaker in power, weaker in military terms, weaker amongst his allies and weaker as an old man. Invading Ukraine is the single stupidest thing he could have done if he was worried about NATO.

I for one am delighted that finally people who act as mouthpieces for hire to promote Russia interests despite the facts are being removed and silenced across the west, and only when all foreign influence to our political system has been cleared can we hope to be free of the kind of influence that Putin and his gang of criminals who happen to now be billionaires have exerted here for too long. There is too much blood money in the UK and frankly not enough done because it lines the pockets of institutions or political parties loathe to lose it.

Very insightful and I couldn’t agree more.

I would add to those that think the last sentence refers specifically to the ‘hard right Tory party and it’s acolytes’  think  again. Russia, like China for many years has been buying influence. State secrets, political, militarily and commercial since the Berlin Wall fell. Slowly at first when those old guard communists realised that there was money to be made and using old style honey traps and more sophisticated espionage with a financial emphasis rather than though not exclusively a sexual slant would gain more than aggression. The Chinese are adroit at this game and work to an extent with its old communist ally to undermine our society on the left, right and centre wherever they see a potential advantage to undermine the west. Pay those who will take it and silence those who oppose it.

I did say that the longer this goes on the more likely Putin would be seen as a busted flush. The temperature maybe cold in the Ukraine but it’s rising inside Russia. Even those taking Putins Rouble inside Russia and exerting pressure on the people are starting to feel it, given time they will like a hungry dog turn on their master.

I remember the Corbyn picture on Newsnight with him in a generated picture wearing a Russian hat. Part of a biased, false smear campaign against him. All the while Tory MPs were taking Russian's money.

You only have to look at how the world is reacting to this awful attack by Putin to see it's all about capitalism. It's also shows how communism could never work. Humans by nature are greedy and always want more. This goes back as far as the human race does.

But only on the right, right?

Absolutely correct.

I suspect that you have been reading the same sources I have, equally hasn't it been rather widely reported in the past that he has Parkinson's? One has to wonder whether this is a declining man grasping what he sees as a last chance to achieve his idealogical dreams?


Indeed, this is where the difficulties exist for Johnson and the government. Johnson's words re the Crimea as coming back to haunt him, whilst as a commentator (sorry don't recall who) pointed out, considering the amount of cash the government have taken from Putin allies its like a Headmaster wanting to expel a child but realising that he can't as the child's parents paid for the music block at the school to be built!
 

You do have a point. Do you remember going back must 20 years, maybe more. When Rover were in the shit about the time I think Honda withdrew from their partnership and the company was fucked. I did an article about a delegation of Union, management maybe but not sure government ‘officials’ being entertained by the Chinese about a ‘rescue package’ or maybe a buyout, not. The crux of the article was that those that went were schmoozed, wined, dined and basically rinsed of their knowledge of the company and next thing it was sold, inc the MG badge and that was it for our last state owned car manufacturer. I don’t think it suggested that unofficial money was paid to those who went but the inference was that they were seduced very cleverly but the Chinese who saw real value in the brand and got it for a song. Now you can go and buy an MG made in Taiwan and China. Electric too. The universities are awash with Chinese money behind the sciences. In Africa the Chinese have been spending billions for years exerting influence, why only recently Barbados uncoupled from the commonwealth as is their but it hasn’t gone unnoticed that there China has poured money into the countries infrastructure.

You can fight a war without weapons but allude money is a very powerful weapon to use in this world and no one is immune from being seduced by it.

Putin need ps those who he allowed to be enriched by and through his power and once they have that money and privilege it becomes a powerful weapon to use against them. As the saying goes, they that pay the piper call the tune.

Which time do you mean, Rover wasn't state owned from as early as 1988 when BAE bought it and Honda moved away when it was flogged to BMW in 1994.

The stuff with the Chinese was 21st century after BMW had gifted it to Phoenix who took their flesh and basically stripped it till 2005 when the Chinese picked up for a song out of admin!

But yes emerging economies seem much more adept at fast moving and harvesting knowledge, added to which is the prestige. Hence why many in the know have been suggesting that the key sanction to get results against Putin would be stopping granting visa's to allow oligarchs to educate their kids in our public schools. 

You then know of what I’m alluding to. The article was the meetings in China of which the was some value and yes you have clearly more, knowledge and or access to this info than me (which I’m just using as an example of how easy it is to seduce with money and ‘hospitality’) however I now remember a tv programme and some of the attendees were clearly shocked at how easy the Chinese ended up with an asset that was clearly worth more than they paid.

Anyone who read my post and thinks the Tories and the right wing parties aren't the most complicit in assisting russian influence are dead wrong.

Perennial cockwomble and walking bag of barely concealed fascist excrement Nigel Farage has on many occasions been courted by the state owned russian broadcasters, matches Putin's Eurosceptic view, and as leader of UKIP once said that he would never turn away funding from people who agreed with him. The referendum, whether directly influenced by the Russians or not, was undoubtedly skewed by outside influence from a Russia that does not like a unified Europe.

Many (legal) conservative party, and Boris, donors are Pro Putin businessmen (Please see the comments from the SNP in parliament recently). I'm sure there are a lot of under the table deals as well, but that can't be put at the feet of one political party necessarily, although typically the one with the most power is the one that will be focused on for corruption.

Back on topic. The current convoy driving slowly down a road to Kyiv is a sign of a Russian military that can barely hold itself together. Ukraine is almost perfect tank country, long wide open spaces, with tons of room for a war of maneuver, particularly with Russian APC's and tanks and their legendary ruggedness. The fact the whole bloody army is driving single file down a single road shows the officers need to keep them together to try and push them on, if left to their own devices half of them would probably just bivouac or turn back. Keep them all in a line and just play a game of follow the leader. Putin and his generals know the stomach is not there to fight for the vast majority, but the big existential threat of the convoy coming it's way might, they hope, make Ukraine think about agreeing to terms, and show strength where in reality there is little. Very similar to the fleet in being principle of early C20th warfare.

If we're lucky, they might just give up and withdraw as they did in Chechnya. If we're not we're looking at the same tactics that were used in the Syrian civil war in Europe.

I'll preface this by saying - I generally agree with the "The Stop the War" movement.
Does anyone have the patience to explain to me like I'm 8 why they've included "stop nato expansion" in their anti war message?

To my mind it ignores the self determination of Ukraine and the Ukrainians, as if they're a pawn in the Russa vs all "game" that's been playing out for quite a while

I can't speak for them, and perhaps someone who knows more will correct me, but essentially I think it flows from NATO = American Imperialism and America = Bad. Maybe for some of the older lags it goes back to capitalism v communism, but I think for the younger generations it's more the legacy of Iraq and Afghanistan that western (American) intervention is a bad thing in all circumstances.

Of course, that does tend to ignore that NATO is entirely optional to join and a power bloc against Russia/China on the world stage more than it is about threatening smaller countries.

It might be an absolute can of worms to bring up, but it reminds me a bit of the folks who were determined to push "All Lives Matter" as an alternative to BLM - it's not actually incorrect, but it minimises the impact of the original statement. More or less the same to put "no to NATO" in the same breath as "Putin has invaded a sovereign nation and this isn't on" for my money.

Yeah, it's a bit tone deaf.
Not an expert but I suspect that there is an agenda at work here.

The sentiment is always admirable, but the target of any march or protest should be obvious and in this case it's certainly not NATO.
Kind of hoping that people stay at home and chip in to the Red Cross appeal instead. Probably won't be the case, people will see Stop the War and that's it.
The circumstances are very different from the Iraq War.

Maybe a missed opportunity for conciliation & to bring Russia into the fold after the fall of the Soviet Bloc, instead of crowing about victory in the Cold War.
We are where we are unfortunately, maybe the lessons have been learnt for as and when Putin does fall.
We can only hope.

Far leftists see NATO as an extension of American Imperialism. The argument being, if it is a defensive alliance then why invade Iraq/Afghanistan etc

Its rather another example of the way that those to the extremes of left and right often broadly end up in the same place, or the horseshoe theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

Thanks gang x

I actually thought I was far left, until I started hanging out on a far left forum. Whenever I pipe up I get down voted to fuck and called a nasty liberal :D

it's almost as if labels are shit and made up by cunts, used by snowflakes! winkwink

This is a power move! https://archive.fo/PJGCw  (if that doesn't work, this link might work for a bit longer https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/03/1/7327081/)

Sorry comrade my Russian is a bit sketchy these days!

I laughed out loud at British very poor mans Drake delivering his last line of the first bit here with absolute authority:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIjGjooK8bU

Wow, this was sagacious. Thank you.

ha! I didn't even think about it, i'm using Chrome and the autotranslate worked wonders.
The Ukrainian newspaper has shared 120,000 Russian soldiers details who they are pretty certain are in the country doing their extreme peacekeeping

I had to look up what that meant, thanks.

So the Russians bombed a Holocaust memorial. Just who do they think they are?
The British Labour Party

:tumbleweed:

Oh I see, I note elsewhere that because for some reason the Russians have extremely bad communication systems a lot are using mobiles and shop bought radios which can be very easily tapped!

Something both saggy and spacious. Like Katie Price's anus, allegedly.


Edit: I know it's not that - it should be though.

Abramovich confirms he is selling Chelsea, writing off 1.5bn in loans, and creating a trust fund to donate to Ukraine with the net profits

Nothing says "Shit, please let me continue to live in London. I'm a good bloke really, honest.  I can't live in Russia again, I just can't....please let me stay!" more than that.

Did he say he’d donate it to Ukraine? The wording I saw was, “all victims of war”, which could mean Russians or a mixture.

I read that it was "all victims of the war in ukraine", so it could be both sides, it could just be bollocks of course...


Shelling a nuclear power plant seems fucking mad, even for Putin

very reckless/risky

however they now have it and have shut down 5/6 of the reactors

Fucking batshit crazy; shelling the largest Nuclear plant in Europe less than 200 miles from your own country. You'd like to think it wasn't deliberate policy, just a FU, but with Putin who the hell knows any more. Someone needs to assassinate him. (sits back and awaits hacking/umbrella; been nice knowing you guys)

*Witness account*

Witness 1: Well, one minute I'm sat talking to him on my usual park bench in Queen Elizabeth Gardens and the next minute he's gasping for air, totally keeled over!
I thought bleedin' 'ell, this batch of "spice" must but powerful!
:D

Worrying times
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17853749/vladimir-putin-us-uk-declared-war-ukraine/

Don't open that rag. Don't even click a link. Get a grip. :crash:

It's the same headline in the Daily Mail

QED. When the war is on truth, we need to be more careful than ever with our sources.

Propaganda or scare mongering it could become reality from whatever scource we here it from either way who would be a journalist in a war zone as this was scary stuff.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wyM_9P4igys

This has to fucking stop ASAP
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17860227/ukraine-civilians-running-irpin-artillery-refugees/

Slightly worried about Zelensky’s rhetoric over the last few days. On the surface his request for a no fly zone seems reasonable, but so are NATO’s reasons for refusing. I don’t think being over-combatative is useful. Having said that, the strain the guy is under is pretty much incomprehensible to us mere mortals. Tricky one

I'm not surprised.  Ukraine are in a desperate position

Unless there is some kind of concession, I can't see how this ends other than a long and slow Russia 'victory'.

Without Western intervention there isn't much hope for the poor innocent people.

Same can be said with Western intervention

It certainly won't make less people die

No but what's the answer stand back and do nothing?

With you here.  It will be interesting to see, years from now, how NATO's refusal to get involved directly will be viewed when the history is written.  Right now, I agree that the arguments for not getting involved directly outweigh the others.  But I worry that 2032 me may see things differently.

More immediately, I worry for Zelenskyy.  I admire him greatly.  He's doing things I never could.  He's a fucking legend of a man.  But the more of an icon he becomes, the more of an incentive there will be for horrible bastards working for Putin to take him out.  There's a huge price now on Zelenskyy's head.  If someone gets him, Ukrainian morale is going to suffer enormously.

I think that if Putin, regardless of whether Ukraine is part of NATO or not, was not clearly unhinged with his finger hovering over the red button then NATO would enforce a no fly zone and maybe even put boots on the ground. I hope history recognises that. While he is unhinged with nuclear capability I think history would be a lot less kind if they did stir the pot and it lead to nuclear war even if that’s to the detriment to the Ukrainian self defence.

Totally echo your sentiments with regards to Zelensky. He’s already written himself into folklore

They aren’t doing nothing Jimmy. They are, in my opinion, doing everything they can within the realms of sanity

I get what your saying but it's not enough when innocent women and children aren't allowed to leave through a safe corridor without getting shot at in what was supposed to be a ceasefire.

Agree that is utterly disgraceful. But imagine how many more innocent people would die if Putin was pushed into launching a nuke. If that’s the NATO hangup on introducing a no fly zone I’m in agreement with that decision, as hard as it is

we aren't doing nothing. We are sending defensive weapons and sanctioning them financially.

ok the uk government is fucking up the sanctions.

direct involvement is not an option

I know we're doing lots to stifle Putin but it's hard watching Innocent families suffer

it's horrific

It is. Just as it was in Aleppo - bit further away and brown people so the west weren't as worried. Saudi have been bombing kids in Yemen and we have turned a blind eye and they are allowed to buy Newcastle FC. It's a horrible horrible business but the hypocrisy is really depressing. Don't have any answers,  all wars are evil - just a shame the UK has been involved in more than its fair share to be in any position to grab any moral high ground.

Fair point but I guess we will always follow the Yanks!

the difference in this isn't so much skin colour as location and actors imo (which is oft wrong)

it's kicking off next to NATO countries, in Europe. And it's a nuclear aggressor

The saying
"Between a rock and a hard place" springs to mind.
Surely, Putin has to be removed as soon as possible for the future of Russia and most possibly the World.
 

Supposedly there have already been multiple assassination attempts. I think it's too late now actually - if Putin has him killed now he becomes a martyr and the last thing Russia needs is a Ukranian Joan of Arc if they have any ambition of holding the country whatsoever. Not saying that Putin wouldn't still do it out of spite, but tactically it would seem a misstep (caveat: I am obviously a random observer on the internet thinking about historical precedent, not a military strategist or sociologist).

Nailed it, pal.

It's a little bit worse than that. We have been supplying the Saudis weapons and training their forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Yemeni_Civil_War#United_Kingdom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Yemeni_Civil_War#United_Kingdom)

This would be a PR disaster even in Russia where he controls the media surely? This man was the voice of Paddington in both movies throughout Russian speaking territories. Shooting Paddington has got to look bad even for Putin!

It's not a good look is it?

Moss
Your comments are right on the money.
One must also look at Iraq and pior to that Yugoslavia with the USA bombings.
Simply blood chilling.

Are we the baddies?

I thought this thread was about war in Europe?

I'm not, but the fuckers knowingly profiting from it, definitely.

I think jayo is referencing the Mitchell & Webb sketch.

 :-[

For most of the conflicts in my lifetime it's fucking hard to make an argument for any of the participants to be the goodies. It tends to be the baddies vs the even fucking worsties.

What about pure Aryan skull shape?

Russian oil to be phased out by the uk by the end of the year. We only get 8% from there but it’s still a worthwhile statement

Why take 9 months, seems ludricous. Russians will have systematically destroyed the Ukraine by then

To be fair, changing where we get our energy from isn't going to something that's possible overnight - you can't build new power output overnight or even buy stuff up from other places (not least because I suspect the entire Western world is trying to do the same).

UK govt is dragging its heels in lots of areas but the timescale here feels pretty much as fast as possible.

The US have followed similar suit - US are banning Russian oil and gas imports..  this is certainly going to be a trigger for escalation I would expect, in what form?  who knows with that lunatic

because we (Europe) need it.

note the lack of gas, just oil. Germany get 40% of their gas from Russia. if that gets closed off its going to get bloody expensive even in comparison to now

I agree, but an immediate ban on Russian oil would see huge profiteering from other oil exporting nations, driving fuel prices through the roof.

McDonald’s finally bows to pressure and closes all 850 stores in Russia. Now for Coke to pack their bags.

Starbucks have joined them.

+ coke/pepsi

enjoy your Panda pop cola Putin

I thought it was кола they drank anyway?

It does get me thinking though. I wonder...the next time the UK or US goes and unjustly bombs the shite out of somewhere...will the normal UK/US citizen be faced with all these similar sanctions and business pulls?  :hmmm:

It's a serious question though. If we don't agree to similar sanctions in future against ourselves (and Murica or others) then surely we're incredibly hypocritical? Past forays into Syria and Iraq 2 (WMDs anyone?) come to mind initially...and the ongoing situation with Israeli Defence Forces in Palestine. I'm sure there are many more...

Meanwhile...just over two weeks on and Russian Oligarchs in the UK remain free to move their assets into moderate safety  ::)

Piece on "dirty money" can be viewed here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/russia-oligarchs-evade-sanctions-anonymous/626968/

A little more on media hypocrisy can be read here:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/27/western-media-coverage-ukraine-russia-invasion-criticism

This is the tl;dr version of the Al-Ja article above:
https://twitter.com/RedsssSeaside/status/1501528350573174787

Crude is up 20% per barrel just in the last week though and likely will rise higher :hmmm:

Kremlin ran Russia >>>> bothered much

The cynic in me thinks this is just the UK Gov cashing in on higher barrel prices.
It certainly makes them look good whilst doing so in the present environment.
I wonder who will be reaping the benefits of this profitable ROI?

I'm sure a rather extravagant Downing St Party "Invite Email" will be sent out at some point :)

For those who don’t believe in coincidences, turn away now!

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/ww1-ww2-ukraine-russia-invasion-similar-dates-20220309

Abramovich sanctioned, including preventing him selling Chelsea (or it seems, Chelsea selling anything else including tickets or anything other than catering in the stadium... that will end well)

Where have you read that (not doubting it) the words from Dorries I have seen suggest it has some sort of licence which allows it to operate normally, which does rather seem to negate the point of sanctions on Abramovich. 

Lots of journos on Twitter, here are threads from the Telegraph and Times:

https://twitter.com/SamWallaceTel/status/1501858637198897152
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1501847597140660226

Essentially they can just about operate, but under heavy restrictions.

Abramovich now sanctioned. Chelsea in the shit

By the sounds of it they can operate normally (at the moment, mid season), but what it means is that Abramovich will not profit from anything.  What it means if they are still in the same situation once the season ends though is a different matter.

Ta.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60690362 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60690362)

bib:. I assume most that attend are ST holders anyway.

As said though, end of the season could be interesting ...

I'm off to Twitter to look at the CFC fan outrage

So, no selling players. No signing players. Not able to offer existing players new contracts.

They’re fucked.

Couldn't happen to a nicer club.

Sponsors now pulling out. ‘Three’ have withdrawn their £40m pa sponsorship.

The club can be sold but only with government involvement and none of the proceeds going to Abramovich.

I imagine their fans are spitting feathers at the Newcastle owner’s country’s bombing of Yemen has been conveniently overlooked.

Just waiting for Lebedev to have his peerage revoked & the Evening Standard & Independent being banned from selling papers because of his links (via his ex-KGB father) to the Russian leadership.

Might be waiting a while though, his donations to Boris & the party protecting him.
Maybe Roman should have made a bigger donation into Tory party HQ? 😉

PS have little sympathy for those Chelsea fans who sang his name during the minutes applause for Ukraine

Shame (presumably) no away fans allowed into Stamford Bridge and therefore no renditions of "Your ground's too big for you" at the Chelski season ticket holders...

Back to small premiership crowds before they were famous

Do you mean before they were bank rolled by the Russian Mafia?

I guess both😀 Fulham will be the biggest club in West London next season!

If they had still had that level of support during these successful years they would no doubt have been classed as tinpot

oh, good point

 :clap: :clap:

I'm sure Chelsea season  ticket holders would be more substantial than the capacity of Craven Cottage.

Fulhams capavity next season will be just under 30,000 I'm not sure Chelsea have many more season ticket holders than that out of their 41,600 capacity so quite close I would say.

Fulham won't have 30,000 fans though  ;)

I reckon they will have 26,000 - 27,000 with 3,000 - 4,000 away fans tho😀

I've been reading a bit about offering space in homes for Ukranian refugee families and was chatting to Mrs Bob over breakfast about it. We've no kids and a bit of space and would definitely like to do something but wouldn't really have any idea how to go about it. Any advice on where to start?

The Republic of Ireland have started a register of this sort of thing, and so have a bunch of European countries. There's nothing official here that's live yet, but the Telegraph reported that something was going to be set up and announced on Sunday:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/10/uk-to-open-sponsored-route-for-ukrainian-refugees (Guardian link repeating the Telegraph article as the Tele is paypalled)

Thanks nemo, that's great.

Not going to plan then?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60705486

I think he expected to be running the show in days and Ukraine have shown they aren't going to roll over and take his shite.

but


oh Sergei, you should have gone with 16,001

Maybe Ken Bates can buy them for £1 again

Isn't that old cunt dead yet?

Nope. He's 90.

Zelensky particularly bullish today and Sky reporting Putin as changing his tone on negotiations. Some tentatively good signs. Perhaps it’s time to offer some way for Putin to get back from this mess with him losing as little face as possible. Tricky to negotiate I’m sure but could be a way to end this nonsense

What is worrying is the chemical weapons shit there now spouting which could be paving way for Russian dirty bombs.

Agreed,  I think there has to be an option for Putin to try and save some face in order to make a "dignified withdrawal". He will have to be seen to claim some sort of "victory" politically at home.  

I think a lot of it will depend on how badly it’s really going for Russian forces. Zelensky certainly seems confident that Ukraine could win this outright. I don’t know how accurate that is (none of us do) but if he’s correct it’ll increase urgency on Putin’s side to negotiate something. I also think that Zelensky is more likely to offer Putin some kind of face saving compromise considering how roundly Putin’s War has been condemned internationally. Let him have a concession that might stroke his ego and be acceptable to the Russian people; the rest of the world will know he’s lost and, frankly, made a cunt of himself and his country.

This’ll hang over the entire thing. How far is he likely to go and what effect will this have on the West’s willingness to punish him?

Reports of Russia doing false-flag air strikes in Belarus.

Interesting move from Putin.

Read that too. If correct, I don’t know who he thinks he’s convincing. He’s clearly lost the propaganda war

I hate any propaganda on war, especially the glorification of war.

Still look at the "Zelenskyy dines with troops" image and all I can see is Caravaggio's Supper At Emmaus. Uncanny photo op!

It’s chilling how it’s all like the trump/brexit playbook. Absolute lies told with a straight face. “We didn’t attack Ukraine” as John Lennon once said “ just give me some truth” 😞

I’m not sure of the Zelensky comparison but I looked at ‘Supper at Emmaus’ and my fucking god what a stunning work of art. Holy mackerel

Ps fuck Putin

It's his later one (1606) that has all the beauty in it for me. You possibly would have looked at his 1601 version, which you can see in Londongrad I think. The 1606 version is in Milan (and yes, I've stood and stared and pondered at it for some time).

The Zelenskyy and Troops comparison (against the 1606 version), really does draw similarities. Round a table with people he does not know, breaking bread and food centre. It's an exclusive gathering really. But as I say, in the photographic version...it's some opportunity!

There was a more sombre image floating about of Zelenskyy and Troops from the same photocall and it was even closer to the near 420yrs young painting.

This is a personal vendetta. Putin doesn’t have a plan other than the total annihilation of Ukraine and unfortunately he doesn’t have the forces to complete the job so will be quite happy to destroy it by any means he can and blame everyone else for causing it.

Time and time again Putin has shown complete disregard for basic human morals and is prepared to stoop lower than anyone else to get a job done and his cronies are all shit scared of him.

So many parallels with the rise of Hitler

This isn’t going to end well for anyone unless Putin is deposed from within very quickly…

Just how do you transport 16,000 mercenaries from Syria to Ukraine?

And does Putin honestly expect the Syrians to adapt well to -10 conditions!?!

Putin is clearly a nut job, but ask yourself one question about the conflict.

How would the US react if Mexico elected a Russian backed socialist/communist administration.

It almost feels as if NATO keep poking Russia to try and make them react, which they now have, in the hope that Putin will do something stupid so they are justified in taking him out.

Hopefully someone in Russia will do the job for us before too many innocent people suffer.

As for the media/propaganda war, again ask yourself the question how much you trust our media.
Trump (another nut job) raised the “fake news” banner every time something was reported that he didn’t like, but the one thing it did show is just how much public opinion could be swayed by what is reported.

Your post is entirely predicated on a view that Russia somehow has a right to have a say in how the states that neighbour it are governed.  And it doesn't.  Russia no more gets a say in how Ukraine should be run than Ukraine gets a say in.Kremlin policy.  Ukraine and the Baltics weren't 'poking the bear' when they elected governments that were oriented more to the West.  They were following the wishes of their populations.  That's how democracy works - and that's what Putin feels threatened by.

There is nothing legitimate about Russia's invasion.  Nothing.

I’m not saying it does, it’s more about what the US would do if the boot was on the other foot.

Look at history, the US went nuts when Russia had missiles in Cuba, yet they had missiles much closer to Russia already.

Clearly Russia should not be in the Ukraine, just as they shouldn’t have been in Syria and the west shouldn’t have invaded Iraq or Afghanistan.

We are being fed information by our media and government, just as the Russian people are being fed by theirs.

I’d like to think ours are more trustworthy, but that’s for each individual to decide

Well, we know how the US reacted when the then USSR were going to base nukes in Cuba. That was of legitimate concern. Russia can hardly feel threatened by Ukraine.

I presume even if Ukraine became a NATO member it wouldn’t involve any present NATO countries basing any of their military there.

Clearly Russia does think that.

Most animals will avoid confrontation until they are cornered.
I just feel the expansion of NATO is going to do that to the Russians, whether justified or not

Also, at the end of the Cold War, we said there would be no expansion of NATO. We lied. Putin is paranoid about a NATO attack. We have to respect that fear is genuine and they have Nukes.

Or on the flip side you can say that Putin’s actions are vindication for the expansion of NATO and Ukraine wanting to be part of it. Putin has repeatedly refused to accept the former USSR nations as sovereign countries and has consistently stated that the fall of a the USSR was a mistake that he wants to undo. So you can hardly blame countries for wanting to ensure they are protected from a paranoid dictators nostalgia trip. Putin’s demands are basically that the Ukraine are ‘demilitarised’ and the post-98 expansion of NATO is reversed, I wonder why this is?! Basically so that they are easy picking and allow his perverted dream of a new USSR to happen.

Whatever the faults of the West and NATO, they can’t be blamed for this. Putin has always been a ticking time-bomb and this will have always been in his plan. The will of the Majority of Ukraine people is clear in that they want nothing to do with Russia and that should be respected and they should be allowed to choose who they align with to defend this right. Putin has repeated shown he’s open to land grabs & has no respect for lockdown life with the use of chemical weapons & other illegal weapons so with a neighbour like that Ukraine have every right to try and protect themselves.

The big fear for me is that Putin will deploy a low yield tactical nuclear device in Ukraine to try and make a point, he knows the West wouldn’t respond military wise to a tactical strike but it would spread fear around the world. Ultimately this whole situation proves that our nuclear deterrent is far from a waste of money and is unfortunately a necessity.

Russia are the aggressor here, let's not forget that.

The deterrent is pointless if it doesn't deter, even a tactical strike as T2K suggests is not an impossibility.

Would that or the use of chemical weapons be seen as crossing the line by NATO?

Also mention made of on here of a face saving solution for Putin via negotiations.
I suspect that's not very high on Ukraine's list of priorities when it comes to getting round the table.
Continue to hold the Russians up, look for local ceasefires for humanitarian purposes where possible, but the main thrust should be get the fuck off our land & pay reparations when you've done so.

Giving up on Crimea & the breakaway regions might be an option, but no more & why should they.

The war could drag on for weeks & months yet.
Levelling cities will make for protracted urban warfare and big loss of life on both sides.

Could the UN step in & try and broker negotiations?
Tricky when one of the permanent "security" council members is driving the conflict and another has yet to openly condemn them.

This has fuck all to do with NATO.  Put in doesn't give much of a fuck about that other than toying with the members from time to time.  This is to do with two linked things, his known desire for Empire and Ukraines push to join the EU.  He can't let that happen if he wants a new map drawn and be a Legacy maker.  He's a fucking Psycopath with a desire to go down in history.

Yep. Said it myself a while back in this thread and elsewhere. Putin fears democracy - not NATO.

Have just seen on You tube     Ukraine on fire

Would be interested to understand what others would make of this Oliver Stone documentary made 2016

   

NATOs foremost member/leader, the USA, has been actively involved in regime change in Ukraine for 8 years or so, helping it with its conflict with the ethno-Russian separatists in Donbas.  This has notably included a policy of arming and training Ukraine.  Supported by the UK.

Who reliably shares or even knows Putin's thinking behind this latest invasion?  Whilst I agree Putin will doubtless have been discomfited by Ukraine's drift towards the EU, it is difficult to see how the military involvement of NATOs leading member in Ukraine can be safely discarded as having had any influence on Putin's latest invasion.

I think there will have been multiple factors that have led to this.  Lessons from the past need to be learned and the invasion demonstrates that mistakes have been made.

However, I find it disappointing that so many Western political factions are still trying to profit at the expense of their rivals (Democrats and Republicans, Leavers and Remainers, EU and UK).  They have all contributed to the mistakes, imo.  They now need to dial it right down and focus on the common enemy, keeping any inevitable differences between them behind closed doors.  There is but one murderous cunt here.

NATO is a very convenient excuse for him, and we've given him that.  His desire for Empire long precedes this moment though and the original incursion into Ukraine was timed after their desire to join the EU was mooted.  He can't have a bit of his Empire joining up to a democratic club that would far exceed any influence he could hope to have over the region and he certainly can't have brothers/sisters/cousins of his people giving true democracy a go.

It's true that none of us know for sure, but Putin is not some random nutjob, he has laid bare his inner thoughts over the years and published/said plenty to point to the direction he is now taking.

Yep. Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey. He's been testing the waters and pushing the limits for ages. Each time being a little more confident.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60736185

BBC being all investigative journalistical. Bit late chaps

So the question should be what happens after this latest challenge ends
I can see the NATO led by USA push a weaken and angry Russia with a Ukraine dividend towards China due tmainly to. stupid sanctions  that need to be scrapped as soon as possible  China will get the oil and all the food that their nation needs at present including a nuclear arsenal on a plate so to speak from Russia
North America will survive with their food basket In tacked and economically sound due to the sales of military arms.
Europe will be still reliant on others for Oil Food and financial support from China including a weaken Russia and the Middle East including the States.
The clear winners will be Boris and Andrew as their Party gate and it could not be. me cos I don't sweat excuses are far less important than the news of who will press the red button first.
Fucking hell what strange world we all live in.

What a load of nonsense! The sanctions should stay in place as long as it takes and get even stricter to the point where the bite forces a change by Russia either in terms of leadership or Putin backing down. Short of going to war ourselves the sanctions are all we’ve got and if we were to just get rid of them then even that threat wouldn’t carry a threat in the future!

I also don't think the Chinese need a nuclear arsenal from Russia.

Oh dear
What some interesting comments.
Do you really think Russia should be brought down to a North Korean status and if so what do you think will happen then.?
Should the US and Britain be punished for their actions in Iraq and more recently in Afghanistan. Who is bombing and with what make of equipment in Yemen.
Weapons of mass destruction and that old walnut being used again. Think it was France or Germany supplying Iraq WMD but who cares it made a good story for Blare to tell the House of Commons.
Seriously, follow the money or oil and you will find the real answers here.   
Really suggest that you need to look into the past to see what will happen in the future.
 

 

Blair, it's Blair

Did anyone see the Russian News Editor photobombing her own channel's main evening news program with an anti-war protest?
I guess none of us know what we'd do if we lived under a totalitarian dictatorship; but chances are 99% of us would just keep our heads down and do our best to stay alive and under the radar.
People protesting in Russia are genuine heroes in my book; that News Editors name should go down in history. Nerves of Fucking Steel. Just hope she lives to tell the tale.

Possibly not thought my comments below well enough but here goes
 
Thank goodness for the British way of government and with the Queen supposedly head of the Country.

Really don't want to think or guess what will happen when Lissy moves on to a higher place though.

 

Top notch analysis as always

I get some flak on here for talking drivel but fuck me, at least I put a coherent sentence together from time to time.

Out of interest, just how many bottles of Buckfast did you neck before writing that?

The name of the Editor was that memorable, you totally forgot to mention it ;)

It's ok, I prepared a ready made excuse: "I was in total awe of their bravery and anti-war stoicism, that the name of the editor totally escaped me"  :D

Fair point Bamboo!

Her name in Marina Ovsyannikova.

Remember it and pass it on.

The Govt scheme is up and running now. We have signed up this morning via a simple online form.

I’d really suggest you get some English lessons before trying to lecture people on history!

When you are getting comments from Bamboo for writing incoherent nonsense then you really need to take note!

Just out of interest is there any  indication of DBS Checks etc that those signing up will have to undertake?

I didn't see anything specifically. It did state that security checks would be made but to be honest no idea what those actually may entail.

Oi! ;)

But true ::)

Likely DBS checks at the bare minimum,I'd imagine BO. In case the local Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter tries to send in several applications under the name of "The Pied Piper"

Fucking fair play to you mate.  Lot of admiration for people like you. Hope it all works out for you.

Thanks fella. Not doing it for admiration or social media likes but we are in the fortunate situation where we actually can do something, however little, to try and help people who are less fortunate. I would like to think it the tables were turned there is enough good in humanity to offer the same.

I might have to start learning Ukranian on the old Duolingo app! :)

Good stuff BO.
Never mind learning Ukrainian. Food is a universal language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN6ZkldOmsM

There are veggie versions as well.

That looks phenomenal.

Love the sound of that! Big fan of red cabbage and beetroot so hopefully might be able to broaden some culinary horizons - well, Mrs Bob will! :)

Russia have sanctioned Biden. I’m sure he’s devastated

Sabotage tried at peace talks? Or were they just Spurs fans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60904676


Wait, who are Chelsea's main rivals...

Fulham, Brentford and QPR?

Spurs

Has someone woke him up to tell him?

Looks like a big climbdown is on the cards from Russia, saying they are going to reduce attacks around Kiev to increase 'mutual trust'. I think we all know that the actual fact is their attempts to take the capital are not going to happen. Here's what their deputy defence minister said:

Due to the fact that negotiations over an agreement on Ukraine’s neutrality and non-nuclear status and security guarantees (for Ukraine) are moving into a practical stage, and taking into consideration the principles discussed during today’s meeting, the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation has taken the decision to drastically reduce combat operations in the Kyiv and Chernihiv areas in order to boost mutual trust and create the necessary conditions for further negotiations and for the signing of the aforementioned agreement.

End in sight perhaps?

Read that as sectioned at first. Might not be the worst idea.

That statement from their defense minister is just spin for "our armed forces are in disarray and we're making a hasty retreat".

They've run out of canon fodder and need to preserve the real army.

And a retreat in the North means redeployment to the south and east of Ukraine. Seems they are keen to control the coast and shut off the ability of Ukraine to export via sea.

What Putin wants, as a minimum, is a land bridge to Crimea, hence the bombardment there being less about taking control of City's and more about getting the residents to bugger off.  He'll essentially have the South and East of Ukraine back under a Russian map and full access to the Sea.  In an ideal world he'd have managed to get a new Govt. in Kyiv so he can lay control the Orthodox Church, but he can probably play a longer game for that one.

Bet they're gutted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61126391

Perhaps we could start a new thread for BBC website articles which may (or may not) be of interest to forum members.

Let us know when you've started one😀

If it is anything like this literary masterpiece on the Manchester Road and Swindon Railway Station areas then you’ll be waiting a while.

I was wondering why he suggested having one when he could easily have created one for all to use!

JBZ being TDroll due to me linking a number of BBC news articles. Whatever next.

That's unfair. I seem to recall that another poster commented on this.

Russia are on the verge of achieving their primary objective of securing the land corridor to Crimea - they cleared their forces from the North so are now free to threaten with tactical nuclear weapons being dropped on Kyiv if Ukraine doesn’t concede and handover this corridor and eastern regions.

Er,  not great if true.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-missile-poland-nato-ukraine-b2225824.html%3famp (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-missile-poland-nato-ukraine-b2225824.html%3famp)

Russia will of course blame the Ukraine

Same in The Guardian, let's hope it won't escalate further.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/nov/15/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-updates-kherson-victory-marks-beginning-of-end-of-russian-war-zelenskiy-says

So now we have the US saying its unlikely it was Russian whilst the Poles are noting no conclusive evidence as to who launched the missile.

So who knows.

Apparently, the trajectory of where the missile landed makes it almost very difficult/nigh on impossible to have been from Russia itself. If that's the case then the 2 options that spring to my mind are;

Ukraine fired the missile as an attempt to get NATO to act against Russia or Russian forces fired the missile from Ukranian territory as an attempt to get Ukraine in the bad books with NATO.

Or other scenarios that are probably obvious, but I haven't taken into consideration.

I wonder whether it was an accidental fuck up on the Ukrainian side, I note the BBC are reporting 'The Nato military alliance, which Poland is part of, is holding a meeting in Brussels - it has called what happened a "tragic incident"'

Of course a tragic accident could of course be another scenario. Wasn't it reported that the missile was 'Russian made'? I'm sure both sides are hurriedly preparing their own version of events so the actual truth will be difficult to decipher. 

Ukraine use Russian made kit as well.
Missiles have been fired from Belarus and also from aircraft.

You see, this is what I love about the TEF, every day can be a school day :)

well, it could always be Ukrainian air defence trying to shoot down Russian missiles but missing .

Glad initial reports were premature

Hope this is true, but the fact Zelensky came out so quickly and said “We have to respond”, almost talking on behalf of NATO, which he isn’t part of, was quite uncomfortable.
Certainly you had to wonder whether Ukraine had fired a Russian missile to get NATO involved, if that was proved to be the case where would that leave us.

From the Russian perspective, you would have thought they wouldn’t do anything deliberately to get NATO more involved, albeit Putin is a lunatic.

Never a truer word spoken,

Can we just fast forward to where he shoots himself in the head in his Moscow bunker.

That would be lunacy.

If it were proven, you'd think Ukraine HQ would have to play the "rogue operative, disobeyed orders"  card to try and save face.

I think Russia are already claiming "it was them", but they always were going to regardless.

From what's coming out now its likley the case that whatever has happened was a fuck up on a local level, and all, thankfully, seem to be trying to calm the rhetoric a little, albeit possibly you can understand Zelensky being a little on edge considering what he and his people have been facing for the last 9 months, with Russian missiles raining down on civilian areas of Kyiv yesterday.

Doesn't remove the fact that no one would be fucking around with missiles in this location if Russia hadn't decided to start waving its cock about, see also MH17! 

If NATO doesn’t want to escalate the conflict it’s no surprise they’ve decided to inform people it was all just a horrible accident.

it probably was though. I doubt they are lying

Missile defence systems are deployed to intercept incoming missiles (Hi Grandma' have an egg).

If a system successfully does its job, there is a lot of broken missile falling out of the sky.

It could be that a Ukrainian defence system did its job but the shrapnel caused this damage?

Yeah, doubt even Putin is stupid enough to go all out vs a Nato country.

I hope.

Precisely. I highly doubt it was either intentional on the part of Russia or a false flag by Ukraine, doesn’t change the fact it’s Russia’s fault one way or the other by virtue of their pathetic attempts to invade Ukraine

Oops.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65344370

If there’s one thing this wretched war achieved it’s debunking the myth of how great the Russian military is.

Fucking clowns.

Every military has been run into the ground since the end of the Cold War. Relative peace (the odd counter insurgency aside) allows for a veneer of competency and capability to be maintained. The reality is we are just as hollowed out as they are. We'd have approximately a fortnight's worth of men, vehicles and ammunition in a proper shooting war in Europe.

Even our nuclear deterrent is essentially leased from the Americans.

Not so much of an issue and it has been that way for a long time. It is still a 'Premier League' capability that we have maintained effectively. As for the rest of the military it has best been described as 'fur coat with no knickers.' We have a very few high end shiny things (like Trident/F35/Carriers) but absolutely nothing behind them.

China hasn't allowed that to happen I suspect.
Was reading the other week that Western military "intelligence" indicates an invasion of Taiwan to be very likely before 2027.

Correct. They are the one outlier. Currently commissioning and building the same number of ships as the Royal Navy has in total every year...

Wouldn’t say every military has been run into the ground. There’s a reason Americans don’t get free healthcare

Similar to us and arguably the Russians. Some very expensive niche high end capabilities. Lots of boring things that enable you to go long term in conflict hollowed out.

Russia's problem is internal corruption of the highest order...

As a dictator, Putin promotes people based on arse licking rather than competence- as a result most of their high ranking generals are completely detached from the nuances of strategic warfare.

Their approach to military technology is all smoke and mirrors - they tell the world they are going to have the greatest tanks and build a protoype that looks like the dogs bollocks but is actually a timber framed body over an existing tank then, the General in charge, pockets all of the cash intended for production creates false figures on stock that doesn't exist and then surprise, surprise  when the tank (Armata) is actually needed, its nowhere to be seen in Ukraine (or even Russia).

The majority of Russian conscripts and reserves don't want to be in Ukraine but can't escape for fear of being shot by their own side.

They are now dragging out t55 tanks from the second world war becasue losses have been so high and much of the munitions they are using is way passed its expiry date so much of it doesn't detonate.

They really are a shower of shit that have seriously underestimated the determination of Ukrainians and support from NATO (many NATO nations are  playing the level of support down but secretly stockpiling  - The US have publicly acknowledged small numbers of Abraham and air defence systems but in reality support with a much, much more.

Not forgetting of course the SAS and other elite western troopers are there behind the scenes lending strategic support and garnering invaluable intelligence in the process. This is now going to be a war of attrition. The Russians will be worn down in terms of financial support for their military supply chain and actual armaments over time rather than the Ukrainians engaging in a massive counter attack.

Do you think NATO have been supplying tanks etc in excess of what they officially announce? I would hope so.

There are plenty of ways that kit is making its way to Ukraine off the books: https://defence-blog.com/ukrainian-crowdfunding-buys-101-cvrt-armored-vehicles/

99% of warfare is about disinformation…

Clearly. There's whoever told you T55's were WWII era MBTs. It's a tank introduced in the late 50s and iterations were in service until the 80's.  Not even the T54 which it evolved from was in production during WWII.

.
https://youtu.be/FDwx9JOy4LU

aah, but, 99% of  Russian Tanks look like Bob Todd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_6uvhoK26s

The T54/55 was on the Infantry Anti Tank Platoon Armoured Fighting Vehicle Recognition sylabus as late as 1988 (when I last instructed on the subject).

The reasoning behind this was that the Soviet Union as it was had a military reserve policy that could result in crumblies being mobilised in the event of conflict and they would be put straight into the vehicles they used when they were young conscripts.

This made sense at the time. Reduced training and familiarisation time. They had/ have masses of 'obsolete' technology mothballed and ready to roll out to war.

Whereas I think the bean counters have more or less cleared out Ashchurch...

Do you think they are acting for an excuse to take out Zelenskyy?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65471904

How would drones get right up to the Kremlin before being intercepted?

It’s for Russian consumption. Galvanise the population if they think support for the war is waning.

Can’t believe a word that comes out of Russia.

I think you're right as they were then part of the Soviet Union

Biggest Russian gain in months

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/22/anti-kremlin-militia-freedom-of-russia-legion-overrun-russian-border-village-kozinka

On Saturday Russia’s deputy science minister, Pyotr Kucherenko, 46, fell ill on a flight from Cuba & died after an emergency landing.

In I am sure entirely unconnected news, after Putin invaded Ukraine last year, Kucherenko described it privately to a journalist as ‘this fascist invasion’.

Russia are absolutely screwed for decades. I think that all things considered, Ukraine are winning this war, both from a ‘hearts and minds’ point of view but also militarily. I’m very confident that their upcoming spring offensive will get them some big gains. Russia are running out of friends. China are lukewarm at best and are just out for what they can get. Same with India

What's the end game here?

😂
...and 2 out of 10 cats prefer Lesley Judd!

Russia withdraws back to 2022 borders but gets to keep Crimea as a de-militarised zone.

The US has already stated that it sees Crimea as Ukrainian - Russia needs to completely withdraw and be exiled.  The sad thing is, there is no-one in the wings to replace Putin that would be any better unless Navalny changes his position on Ukraine as well but does appear to be Sponsored by the US

People state lots of things when wars are still 'hot'. We are not going to see a total surrender from Russia or Ukraine marching on Moscow and inflicting an absolute defeat on the Russian state. Therefore a negotiated peace is by far the most likely outcome. Russia will go in with Crimea as a red line and I suspect there will be a fudge there, such as de-militarising it.

Is there a danger of "fatigue" amongst Ukraine's allies. I hope not but I can see an undercurrent of "why are we spending this much on it when xxx is broken at home".

I don't think support will be withdrawn unless a tool like Trump gets in again.

I hope that’ll it’ll be even more difficult to justify removing support than it will continuing it, in light of what has already been spent and donated. I can’t see Europe wavering. Less certain though about the US Trump manages to return

The Wagner group, Russian mercenaries who had done much of the fighting in Ukraine and recently withdrawn whilst being critical of the Russian military, have taken over the Russian city of Rostov and claimed to be ‘heading to Moscow’

Sure this ends well.

I'm shocked to hear that press ganging criminals into a private army might lead to a situation you can't control.

I am really naive to this stuff so apologies.

So what is actually happening here. Are a rogue group of criminals wanting to get rid of Putin? I assume their assets have all been blocked some how and this has led to frustration?

Wagner is a private military company (mercenaries) that have been doing the dirty work for Putin for years, in Syria, Africa, all sorts of places.

They are run by a former hot dog salesman who built up a vast catering empire (like a sort of Sodexo) before moving into this particular niche.

They have been used heavily in Ukraine but the hot dog salesman has become increasingly irritated by cowardice, lies and deceit in Moscow. He has now turned on them and taken control of a Russian territory on the border of Ukraine and has supposedly got 25,000 blokes ready to push on Moscow. Given that the Russian military is currently hollowed out, it might get interesting.

Here’s a startling fact when it comes to private ‘security’ groups.

Top private military contractors (number of employees):

🇬🇧 G4S: 533,000
🇺🇸 Alliedbarton: 220,000
🇷🇺 Wagner Group: 50,000+
🇺🇸 KBR: 28,000
🇺🇸 Academi: 21,000
🇺🇸 CACI International: 20,000
🇺🇸 DYNCORP: 14,000
🇬🇧 Control risks: 3,000

There are some serious apples and oranges being compared on this list!

G4S providing a security guard for your local Sainsburys isn’t quite on a par with Wagner providing a multi role war fighting brigade in the Central African Republic!

I absolutely agree with you, but while I completely understand the sentiment in deriding him as a ‘hot dog salesman’ (he’s obviously a prick) let’s not pretend he’s not an extremely powerful person. Looks like the dude is about to march on Moscow. Can’t wait to see it!

Not sure G4S tend to recruit by offering violent prisoners clemency in return for 12 months service. Although they'd probably try it if they were allowed.

Not so.

https://aoav.org.uk/2018/britains-private-military-and-security-industry-examined/#:~:text=G4S%2C%20one%20of%20the%20UK%27s,sometimes%20directly%20involved%20–%20in%20combat.

Point was they don’t recruit convicts in return for their freedom. There’s still a tonne of oversight that doesn’t apply to something like Wagner, who basically operate with impunity

I wasn’t comparing them to Wagner. Just pointing out how huge they are compared by numbers. As on here, some think of them as  jolly fellows stood outside supermarkets.

Be interesting what happens in Ukraine if Wagner prevail, given it’s head out out a statement the other day saying the pretence for the invasion was a lie and there were no plans by Ukraine to invade

Either way it’s a period of opportunity for them to regain ground now, surely

This is one of those rare occasions where I can say “I have a degree in this” and wrote my dissertation on the private military industry. Yes G4S did a little of that (over half a decade ago) but that 500,000 number is largely made up of the Sainsburys security guards and office employees.

I also used to work for one of the other companies on your list!

Well it’s certainly looking like an interesting situation is developing. I wonder who the west would back? Neither would be my guess but make no mistake they’re watching like hawks.

No doubt another reason for food & energy prices to soar😡

Prigozhin I expect. He’s pretty much saying the Ukraine war is based on bullshit, which sits well with the West’s (correct) narrative

Leave my employer out of this. Or I will send the boys round!

bit skeptical about the Wagner events, they've been moaning to get their own way for ages.

But who knows.

Believe me, neither should be supported. What happens inside Russia, militarily, is Russia's business; but neither Putin nor Prighozin will hesitate to use whatever force is necessary to achieve their aims. Putin in particular will use tactical/battlefield nuclear weapons if or when it suits him..

I feel that this is big. The head of Wagner is supposed to be a Putin henchman. If he’s lost him, which he pretty clearly has, Putin will panic regarding who he can trust, if he wasn’t before this happened. I feel the clock is ticking

Neither will use nukes. It’s not an option

Putin, as powerful as he is, can’t just press a button and launch a nuclear weapon. There are multiple channels that he would have to go through, if he even dared to try, and at some point he’d meet defining resistance 

Wagner?  :)

Mooneyraker?  :hmmm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wyGuP2Ha4M

 :D

You got me!

Putin’s 3 day special operation becomes more farcical each passing day.

This is definitely big. Very rare that anyone openly challenges Vlad, let alone someone who is a credible military threat.

I am not suggesting a major nuclear attack is likely or even possible. Battlefield nuclear weapons are not controlled by the various nuclear weapon conventions that exist.

A Ukraine advisor to their Mod admits they are running out of popcorn. soapy tit wank

I hear you. I just don’t believe anyone beyond Putin in the chain of command would authorise it even if the order came from Vlad himself. Somebody else would have to actually launch it and I don’t think they’d acquiesce

I do wonder if this is a bit of a ruse cooked up by two lunatics.

The hot dog salesman has stayed well clear of criticising mad Vlad so wonder if they are trying to expose anyone who might stand against Putin.

Alternatively they may be trying to make Putin look strong, quashing an uprising, especially if the war in Ukraine is going badly.

It would be nice to think that this could be the end of Vlad, but the worry is that if it is who is going to be next?

I don’t think so. However this plays out, Vlad loses. If he quashes this he still looks weak by virtue of the fact it happened at all

Hotdog met with the deputy Russian defence minister and deputy head of military intelligence in Rostov this morning…

Normally G4S just let them out :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Normally a bunch of fat wasters loitering outside council offices & job centres

Getting back on topic.

What we have now is Putin still in charge, Prigozhin now in Belarus and all is forgiven able to organise an assault from there.

Chechen soldiers on the Ukraine border, and they are trouble.

It’s just three mates who have come up with a plan.

not sus
not sus at all

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733

Haha nope.... this quote made me smile

At the same time, Grey Zone reported that a second business jet owned by Prigozhin had landed safely in the Moscow region...

What's the chances Prigozhin wasn't even on the crashed jet and he spent the rest of the day having afternoon tea in Moscow with Putin  :D

I'd imagine security services are asking the same questions.

He did like to use looky likey. And I'm sure Russia can be trusted to provide DNA evidence, soapy tit wank.

Given it's the greyzone - I'd imagine very little chance

Michael Kofman, who is no mug, re-tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1694408043360883075

https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1694431437506646153

It is Russia. There is always more to it than meets the eye!