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Author Topic: War in Europe  (Read 57251 times)
Bennett
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« Reply #135 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 15:20:34 »

I'll preface this by saying - I generally agree with the "The Stop the War" movement.
Does anyone have the patience to explain to me like I'm 8 why they've included "stop nato expansion" in their anti war message?

To my mind it ignores the self determination of Ukraine and the Ukrainians, as if they're a pawn in the Russa vs all "game" that's been playing out for quite a while
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« Reply #136 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:09:49 »

* * * * * * BUT . . .   CORRBYNN!! * * * * * *
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« Reply #137 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:19:52 »

I'll preface this by saying - I generally agree with the "The Stop the War" movement.
Does anyone have the patience to explain to me like I'm 8 why they've included "stop nato expansion" in their anti war message?

To my mind it ignores the self determination of Ukraine and the Ukrainians, as if they're a pawn in the Russa vs all "game" that's been playing out for quite a while

I can't speak for them, and perhaps someone who knows more will correct me, but essentially I think it flows from NATO = American Imperialism and America = Bad. Maybe for some of the older lags it goes back to capitalism v communism, but I think for the younger generations it's more the legacy of Iraq and Afghanistan that western (American) intervention is a bad thing in all circumstances.

Of course, that does tend to ignore that NATO is entirely optional to join and a power bloc against Russia/China on the world stage more than it is about threatening smaller countries.

It might be an absolute can of worms to bring up, but it reminds me a bit of the folks who were determined to push "All Lives Matter" as an alternative to BLM - it's not actually incorrect, but it minimises the impact of the original statement. More or less the same to put "no to NATO" in the same breath as "Putin has invaded a sovereign nation and this isn't on" for my money.
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Wobbly Bob

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« Reply #138 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:20:09 »

I'll preface this by saying - I generally agree with the "The Stop the War" movement.
Does anyone have the patience to explain to me like I'm 8 why they've included "stop nato expansion" in their anti war message?

To my mind it ignores the self determination of Ukraine and the Ukrainians, as if they're a pawn in the Russa vs all "game" that's been playing out for quite a while

Yeah, it's a bit tone deaf.
Not an expert but I suspect that there is an agenda at work here.

The sentiment is always admirable, but the target of any march or protest should be obvious and in this case it's certainly not NATO.
Kind of hoping that people stay at home and chip in to the Red Cross appeal instead. Probably won't be the case, people will see Stop the War and that's it.
The circumstances are very different from the Iraq War.

Maybe a missed opportunity for conciliation & to bring Russia into the fold after the fall of the Soviet Bloc, instead of crowing about victory in the Cold War.
We are where we are unfortunately, maybe the lessons have been learnt for as and when Putin does fall.
We can only hope.
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #139 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:23:43 »

Far leftists see NATO as an extension of American Imperialism. The argument being, if it is a defensive alliance then why invade Iraq/Afghanistan etc
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« Reply #140 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:26:09 »

Far leftists see NATO as an extension of American Imperialism. The argument being, if it is a defensive alliance then why invade Iraq/Afghanistan etc

Its rather another example of the way that those to the extremes of left and right often broadly end up in the same place, or the horseshoe theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
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Bennett
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« Reply #141 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:28:46 »

Thanks gang x
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #142 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:28:55 »

I actually thought I was far left, until I started hanging out on a far left forum. Whenever I pipe up I get down voted to fuck and called a nasty liberal Cheesy
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Bennett
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« Reply #143 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:30:30 »

it's almost as if labels are shit and made up by cunts, used by snowflakes! winkwink

This is a power move! https://archive.fo/PJGCw  (if that doesn't work, this link might work for a bit longer https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/03/1/7327081/)
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« Reply #144 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 16:47:12 »

it's almost as if labels are shit and made up by cunts, used by snowflakes! winkwink

This is a power move! https://archive.fo/PJGCw  (if that doesn't work, this link might work for a bit longer https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/03/1/7327081/)

Sorry comrade my Russian is a bit sketchy these days!
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« Reply #145 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 17:39:35 »

Possibly so, whatever way one looks at it her statements were at best pretty fucking stupid, if a British person had followed what she suggested possible they would have been committing a criminal offence under British law!

I laughed out loud at British very poor mans Drake delivering his last line of the first bit here with absolute authority:

« Last Edit: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 17:48:03 by mystical_goat » Logged
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« Reply #146 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 17:46:57 »

Putin was a man moulded by the latter era Soviet Union. That was barely a communist state, but an oligarchic semi-feudal society where the labour force was living hand to mouth and those in power made as much money as they could. I don't really see much of a difference between that and modern Russia, except for the fact that modern Russia is, hilariously, more a fascist autocracy.......

Wow, this was sagacious. Thank you.
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Bennett
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« Reply #147 on: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 18:41:43 »

Sorry comrade my Russian is a bit sketchy these days!
ha! I didn't even think about it, i'm using Chrome and the autotranslate worked wonders.
The Ukrainian newspaper has shared 120,000 Russian soldiers details who they are pretty certain are in the country doing their extreme peacekeeping
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« Reply #148 on: Wednesday, March 2, 2022, 06:45:12 »

Wow, this was sagacious. Thank you.

I had to look up what that meant, thanks.
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« Reply #149 on: Wednesday, March 2, 2022, 09:42:39 »

So the Russians bombed a Holocaust memorial. Just who do they think they are?
The British Labour Party
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