Coronavirus

[Richie Wellen-Dowd]

If you're saying we can't fully understand the causes and course of the pandemic without thorough retropsective analysis, well yes. If you are making the increasingly common "Let's wait till this thing is over before anyone analyses how the govt is doing" argument, then I profoundly disagree. There were clearly huge errors and complacency in the govt's initial approach and it was only due to an outcry from public and press that the disastrous "herd immunity without a vaccine"/"take it on the chin" approach that would have led to hundreds of thousands of deaths by the govt's own advisers estimates was abandoned. And we are still playing catch-up from that complacency, which is why we don't have the infrasrtructure or the bodies on the ground to implement widespread testing much less a coherent test trace and isolate plan. There are times when a course correction is needed and a complacent self-congratulatory govt (Johnson apparently thinks 48k deaths is a "success" he can be pleased about) will not implement that left to its own devices.

I'm saying that there is much more to the differences between how nations are fairing, than the approach respective governments have taken. You're assuming you know much more about all aspects of this than you actually do.

*taps out*

[horlock07]

Sweden may not be as high as us due to population density, but still not doing well when comparing to Denmark or Norway that would otherwise have similar characteristics for example. 

I understand a common black joke in the NHS at the moment is that many of our problems are down to;

The density of our population.
and
The density of our population.

[Flashheart]

I understand a common black joke in the NHS at the moment is that many of our problems are down to;

The density of our population.
and
The density of our population.

The density of our population.
and
The density of our population.

There's been a meme circulating on social media.

Somebody posted the above, to which somebody else replied 'but they're both the same'.

QED

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

I read a report today that reckoned nature’s response to the virus is going to be the hottest summer for 100 years.

Predicting average temps in the UK of 38.5C and a whopping 48C in Greece - that’ll kill more people than the fucking virus.

I know that the heatwave in 2003 in France killed 15,000 people.

[horlock07]

There's been a meme circulating on social media.

Somebody posted the above, to which somebody else replied 'but they're both the same'.

QED

Dunno ain't seen the meme as basically dropped off social media for about a month after it all started as it was very obviously brining out the worst in a lot of people, it was like Sept 11th all over again!

[pauld]

I'm saying that there is much more to the differences between how nations are fairing, than the approach respective governments have taken.

Obviously. But govt response makes a massive difference. And continues to do so. And it should be scrutinised and where appropriate criticised in the hope that they improve.

You're assuming you know much more about all aspects of this than you actually do.

Likewise, obviously

[pauld]

In news that should surprise no-one, ONS figures released today show that Covid19 has hit disproportionately hardest in deprived areas of the country:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19bylocalareasanddeprivation/deathsoccurringbetween1marchand17april

[suttonred]

I read a report today that reckoned nature’s response to the virus is going to be the hottest summer for 100 years.

Predicting average temps in the UK of 38.5C and a whopping 48C in Greece - that’ll kill more people than the fucking virus.

I know that the heatwave in 2003 in France killed 15,000 people.

I suspect you misread that. It might hit 38.5 but not a chance that will be the average, unless of course we are spinning into the sun.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Here’s the report. The translation is a bit - flowery!

‘According to Weather Met Office, in the coming summer, mercury is likely to hit a record high in many countries!

It is common nowadays, just before May to take the summer mood out of the closets, that long-term meteorological forecasts appear on various sites around the world. And from time to time we have read about a summer that will be like a winter solstice, about August when January will have nothing to envy… or other times for summer months when the Vesuvius crater will look like a freezer… Forecasts that are so far away from The period they are examining is usually not verified to a large extent, sometimes they “touch” a large part of the weather conditions that really prevail.

For example, last year, similar long-term forecasts gave cold summers with winds and low temperatures; they did not fall far outside: In Greece, mercury showed no heat and the north winds were strong for at least two months in the east of the country. So this year, here’s the thing, this year the experts of… macroscopic weather forecasts are talking about the hottest summer of the last 100 years! And if the colonist hadn’t put us in the freezer of psychology and the incarceration we might have been upset from now on, but… But if you think that, according to expert estimates, the monsters lose their power and much of their contagion in dry and hot climates, then if the predictions are verified we should celebrate!   

According to Weather Met Office , in the coming summer, mercury is likely to hit a record high in many countries. The prognosis is based on estimates and observations in recent years in which meteorologists record continuous global temperature rises. The hottest year to date is considered to be 2016, when the El Niño phenomenon prevailed.


Recall that in Greece in recent years the hottest summer is recorded as that of 1987 with mercury reaching over 44 ° C for many days. on the 9th of the month, we had heavy and heavy snowfall in the center of Athens, while until the 17th of the same month the snow was a daily phenomenon in Attica! Those who claim that a severe winter is followed by another severe summer were justified. The heat of 1987 was unreal! On July 20, a temperature of 45 ° C was recorded in Elefsina! Let’s say that the record high temperature in Greece was recorded in July 1977 in Elefsina: 48 ° C!

So we are waiting for the experts’ predictions to be verified for a long hot summer and… from the half-closed grilles, at noon to hear the roar of Covid 19’

[suttonred]

The only thing that confirms is you've found a bottle of Ouzo and started early..

[Richie Wellen-Dowd]

Obviously. But govt response makes a massive difference. And continues to do so. And it should be scrutinised and where appropriate criticised in the hope that they improve.

I've already said that we should be scrutinising the government on things that can have an impact now. Hindsight comparisons with Germany or anywhere else are pointless bullshit at this moment in time, particularly with the huge gaps in our understanding. It's the modern left's equivalent of saying we should be Sweden or Belarus, or wherever. Forum and twitter experts wanting it to be true because they despise the government or the lockdown, then looking for stats to 'prove' their own bias.

Likewise, obviously

  Did you somehow miss that my whole argument has been that none of us understand it?

[flammableBen]

taps in

[Richie Wellen-Dowd]

taps in

I commandeered the ambulance that was taking me to hospital like in some WWE royal rumble, and now I'm wildly swinging my crutches at Paul because I refuse to give up the belt!

[pauld]

I've already said that we should be scrutinising the government on things that can have an impact now. Hindsight comparisons with Germany or anywhere else are pointless bullshit at this moment in time, particularly with the huge gaps in our understanding. It's the modern left's equivalent of saying we should be Sweden or Belarus, or wherever. Forum and twitter experts wanting it to be true because they despise the government or the lockdown, then looking for stats to 'prove' their own bias.

  Did you somehow miss that my whole argument has been that none of us understand it?

No, but I kind of underplayed it maybe. I have a feeling I'm vehemently agreeing with you from a different angle

[swindonmaniac]

I've already said that we should be scrutinising the government on things that can have an impact now. Hindsight comparisons with Germany or anywhere else are pointless bullshit at this moment in time, particularly with the huge gaps in our understanding. It's the modern left's equivalent of saying we should be Sweden or Belarus, or wherever. Forum and twitter experts wanting it to be true because they despise the government or the lockdown, then looking for stats to 'prove' their own bias.

most sensible post I've read on this in ages.   This 100%,  let's just get through this,  argue the wrongs and rights afterwards.