Let's Get Political!

[Audrey]

So, let me get this right.

Cameron sits in the House of Lords to enable him to become Foreign Secretary and in doing so he will not have to face questions from elected MPs in the House of Commons.

Democracy in action!

[Wobbly Bob]

An opportunity to bring Cruella back into the fold as Health Secretary?
It will be passed up but would have been hugely amusing.
Maybe not for those on a waiting list perhaps.

[Bedford Red]

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic springs to mind.

That's what i was thinking earlier. At least they'll all be out of a job in a few months (hopefully)

[Audrey]

The new Health Secretary’s husband is MD of British Sugar.

No conflict there, then.

[RobertT]

Helps the medicine go down, obviously.

[Nomoreheroes]

No mention about the Labour Party tearing itself apart over Gaza?

Frustrating to see several of their shadow cabinet being unable to show unity. Surely, they have to see the bigger picture? They could potentially do a lot of good if they stuck together. No one can win every battle in life, it’s about picking and choosing the battles you can win and holding steady on those you can’t.

If they can’t unite in opposition, then will the electorate trust them? Or think they are just the same as the jokers currently in power?

[Audrey]

Personally, when it comes to the next GE the vast majority of people won’t give Gaza/Israel a second thought when casting their vote.

[The Grim Reaper]

Personally, when it comes to the next GE the vast majority of people won’t give Gaza/Israel a second thought when casting their vote.

Exactly this. Just when the Labour Party get themselves in a position to possibly challenge at the next GE it appears they are now going to self implode over issues that in other countries that by and large the majority of the electorate have no interest.

[Bennett]

I don't know why Labour whipped MPs to vote against the motion. Given the tories were against it and seemed united, it seems unnecessary and has only led to them being seen as shambolic.

I know this is incredibly niave, because they'd find a way anyway, but I also don't know why we allow a system that forces MPs to vote against their conscience or their constituents interests.

[Cookie]

Sacked for calling for a ceasefire. Starmer is a tool, well done to the 56 who defied this shitty whip.

[Audrey]

Question.

Even if the UK called for a ceasefire what good would that actually do? Can’t imagine Israel would take a blind bit of notice.

[Nemo]

Question.

Even if the UK called for a ceasefire what good would that actually do? Can’t imagine Israel would take a blind bit of notice.

I broadly agree with the point you're making, but to try and answer the question, I assume that advocates of this sort of thing see it as a first step towards (if the ceasefire didn't happen) then looking at diplomatic penalties (sanctions, breaking of diplomatic ties) with Israel, in a sort of geopolitical version of counting to ten in the hope your child starts behaving before you have to do any discipline.

Cynically, a few of the Labour MPs who resigned represent constituencies with much higher than average numbers of Muslim voters, who (not all, but a fair chunk) absolutely do care about this in the way that other voters perhaps don't.

Generally my thoughts on this are that it is representative of how difficult foreign policy is - parties are expected to have a position on just about everything, but almost all of it is out of their control and really fucking complicated. I suspect that's part of why the Ukraine/Russia thing was loudly supported by basically everyone, because it's one of those rare foreign policy issues where one side is demonstrably bad and the other is demonstrably relatively good (unless you're a total wingnut anyway) rather than being complex shades of grey.

[Audrey]

So the sort of things that haven’t made Russia stop? All virtue signalling, really.

Huff and puff that achieves nothing.

[4D]

Labour split again? There's a surprise.

[Nemo]

So the sort of things that haven’t made Russia stop? All virtue signalling, really.

Huff and puff that achieves nothing.

I don't really like the term virtue signalling purely because I think people mean different things by it. For me, sanctions/economic penalties aren't that - you can't "stop" Russia (or anyone else) doing something, but sanctions mean there's a cost to them of doing so. Obviously it's a not a perfect example, but it's the equivalent of having fines in place for speeding or parking illegally - people will still do them, but there's a cost to doing it.

Foreign policy generally is difficult because our government isn't really in control - you can call for stuff, you can have diplomatic/trade penalties or you can (ultimately) start dropping bombs. None of those are perfect solutions - calls/demands are generally ignored, trade penalties have an impact domestically as well as on your target, and taking your country to war or military action short of outright war is... a risky proposition at best.