Let's Get Political!

[tans]

Sue Gray appointed Labour chief of staff. That’ll piss the tory cunts off.

Daily Mail already saying ‘partygate was a labour stitch up’

[horlock07]

Sue Gray appointed Labour chief of staff. That’ll piss the tory cunts off.

Daily Mail already saying ‘partygate was a labour stitch up’

There are a lot of people scrabbling about and going full on tin foil hat on social media, its brilliant!

Worth noting re Partygate that there was a police inquiry and Johnson himself set up the inquiry and appointed Sue Gray!

[dalumpimunki]

I think pretty much every LotO has appointed at least one high profile Senior Civil to their team since Blair back in the mid 90s. Cameron had a couple, Labour's had Bob Kerslake, previously head of the civil service in their camp for years.  This isn't some kind of weird exceptional event at all.

[Batch]

Boris Johnson might be a liar
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-rule-breaches-at-downing-st-parties-should-have-been-obvious-to-johnson-mp-committee-12824339

In other news, water is wet.

[horlock07]

Boris Johnson might be a liar
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-rule-breaches-at-downing-st-parties-should-have-been-obvious-to-johnson-mp-committee-12824339

In other news, water is wet.

But he wouldn't have had the parties unless that pesky Sue Gray had put him up to it, or something like that.

Note - Other conspiracy theories are available on request!

[horlock07]

Without going into the bones of the policy/deliberate deflection technique, who signs off on this fucking stuff.



What is this supposed to be saying, that we have a modern slavery system in the UK that asylum seekers will not be allowed to partake in or that if you are a victim of slavery we won't help you?

[Nemo]

Yeah, it reads like you won't be lucky enough to be enslaved by our nice modern system. In order to know what it means, you'd have to be quite familiar with UK legislation on the topic, which is... not a widespread knowledge I shouldn't have imagined.

It's all a bit grim really isn't it? I just don't really understand why they think they can successfully run a sub-UKIP insurgent campaign when they've literally been the government for 12 years. It'll absolutely repel the middle class Tories and I can't imagine the ones who this sort of thing is designed for truly believe that Rishi Sunak believes a word of it.

[Nomoreheroes]

I agree with the sentiments that people shouldn’t be let into the country illegally.  I don’t people dying at sea after taking ridiculous risks - I don’t want people prospering from their desperation/stupidity either. I also believe it is a complex problem with no one solution. There has to be a deterrent, but there also has to be a bit about fixing problems in countries where people are migrating from - Remember all the complaints about fund raising from Red Nose Day etc being spent overseas. Well, this is why it’s done! Share the wealth, because if you don’t, then those without access to it, naturally want to come and get it.

I think the current PM is more ‘thoughtful’ than the jingoistic, bumbling, narcissist and the dense automaton that he replaced. Interesting to see if he really can make progress on his 5 pledges.

[4D]

^ this

[RobertT]

You likely all live where you do today thanks to a combination of free/open borders throughout history or forced migration through conquests.  Today's situation is far more controlled - I speak as someone who has followed the law to gain benefit from immigration but also has a personal viewpoint (extreme one I accept) that starts with the idea that freedom of movement to some degree or other should be the starting point.  The luck of birth should not give one person more rights than another to a planet that we do not OWN.   The change in climate, regardless of what may have caused it, is going to upend the benefits of many countries as we know them.  Should we force people to remain in locations that are no longer prosperous?  The whole concept of Nation confuses me to be honest.

I'd rather we identify the worlds problems and work to find solutions than cling to some few hundred year old notion of land ownership.  On the one hand we've seen remarkable progress for human kind, on the other we are still a very animalistic species.

[horlock07]

The system is fucked, but a huge part of this is either down to sheer incompetence or a deliberate fuck up to further the normal lines adopted by populist governments of all colours.

The government continue to peddle stuff about asylum seekers being able to follow safe and legal routes to claim asylum in the UK, whilst making it nigh impossible for anyone to actually apply as you cannot apply in foreign embassies and you cannot apply online so the only way you can apply is on the ground in the UK which you can only reach by illegal means, which basically totally fuels the boat method they claim to be trying to stop.

The main problem within the country is that it takes fecking months/years to process any applicants 'cos the system is grossly (or possibly deliberately) under funded leading to applicants being housed in hotels etc which is pissing people off, however as Starmer pointed out at PMQ's earlier, a few months back only 4% of people who arrived on small boats had been processed, and when Starmer raised this Sunak agreed and said it was unacceptable, now its less than 1% have been processed.

You then add into the equation that there are presently around 18,000 people who have been determined as being ineligible for asylum awaiting return (really not helped by us flouncing off from the Dublin Agreement and I note the new laws proposed seem to make no mention of any return agreements with countries), and how many were returned last year....  21. They will no doubt try to peddle the whole 'lefty lawyer' bullshit, but lawyers don't create nor change the law, challenges fail because the government have breached the law so its the Home Office/government consistently being found to be acting unlawfully.

The fact that this all kicked off again after all the shite in the news last week (partygate/Hancocks WhatsApp/the Windsor Agreement not really being what Brexiteers were hoping for) just looks a bit suspicious to me as they have been using migration as a handy dog whistle for years, and it all stinks of this (albeit for balance I would change the first two words to 'all').



But fucking Gary Lineker eh.... 

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

You likely all live where you do today thanks to a combination of free/open borders throughout history or forced migration through conquests.  Today's situation is far more controlled - I speak as someone who has followed the law to gain benefit from immigration but also has a personal viewpoint (extreme one I accept) that starts with the idea that freedom of movement to some degree or other should be the starting point.  The luck of birth should not give one person more rights than another to a planet that we do not OWN.   The change in climate, regardless of what may have caused it, is going to upend the benefits of many countries as we know them.  Should we force people to remain in locations that are no longer prosperous?  The whole concept of Nation confuses me to be honest.

I'd rather we identify the worlds problems and work to find solutions than cling to some few hundred year old notion of land ownership.  On the one hand we've seen remarkable progress for human kind, on the other we are still a very animalistic species.

But your freedom of movement, and mine, had to be qualified. I had to pass tests - mainly financial - even before Brexit. I presume you getting your Green Card was even more intense. The problem I have with the present situation is that 90% of those seeking asylum are unaccompanied young men - very few wives and children and the majority are Albanian which is hardly on a par with war torn countries in Asia.

Even if there was a fast track asylum system the majority would still want to enter the country illegally because they know they’d get refused using the legal route.

[4D]

As Aud said....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63473022

[horlock07]

But your freedom of movement, and mine, had to be qualified. I had to pass tests - mainly financial - even before Brexit. I presume you getting your Green Card was even more intense. The problem I have with the present situation is that 90% of those seeking asylum are unaccompanied young men - very few wives and children and the majority are Albanian which is hardly on a par with war torn countries in Asia.

Even if there was a fast track asylum system the majority would still want to enter the country illegally because they know they’d get refused using the legal route.

This is where it all gets confused and conjecture becomes fact (much like when we try to sign a player or appoint a manager!   ) the Governments own figures don't relate to these often quoted figures about origins of those arriving. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/

This on Sky the other day also rather holed the governments 'we can't do anything about people smuggling as they are based in France and those pesky Frenchies won't help us'  narrative.

[Batch]

Even if there was a fast track asylum system the majority would still want to enter the country illegally because they know they’d get refused using the legal route.

So how is telling them not to come because they are not going to get asylum going to stop that?

I've not had chance to look at the detail beyond "stop the boats" and "not coming in if you enter the country illegally".