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Author Topic: Whats wrong with football?  (Read 1629479 times)
Flashheart

« Reply #1515 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:19:54 »


What intrigues me more is why everyone always seems so keen to defend the consistently reputable, upstanding football establishment against these repeated claims of racism.

Perhaps, maybe, because the claims appear to be bullshit?

Can you name a single out of work black manager that should be in a job? If not, do you not think that perhaps, maybe, their race has nothing to do with it?
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #1516 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:21:52 »

So by me suggesting that very few have the ability to manage is me being a racist...ok then good reasoning.

I think very few WHITE ex footballers make good managers does that also make me racist against white people? I will never forget you calling me a racist even if you wish to brush it under the carpet. I am far from racist and do not take kindly to you calling me one.

Racism is a complex issue....it's entirely possible to be racist without realising, and without intention.
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Peter Venkman
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« Reply #1517 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:34:12 »

Racism is a complex issue....it's entirely possible to be racist without realising, and without intention.
That is true and also racism can be accused simply by how people interpret things in their own mind.

Perhaps, maybe, because the claims appear to be bullshit?

Can you name a single out of work black manager that should be in a job? If not, do you not think that perhaps, maybe, their race has nothing to do with it?
This is how I feel also, a shit manager is a shit manager no matter what his race.
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« Reply #1518 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:34:27 »

Perhaps, maybe, because the claims appear to be bullshit?

Can you name a single out of work black manager that should be in a job? If not, do you not think that perhaps, maybe, their race has nothing to do with it?

OK, I'll be offline after this, and I knew I probably shouldn't have bitten again, so very quickly:

I don't think the problem is at the level of an out-of-work black manager - there aren't very many to choose from, but if they've been given their chance, that proves that someone hasn't been racist in appointing them, and the good ones will get more chances (as Barry says, clubs will overlook anything if they think they'll get success).

The issue seems to be lower down. I have read that the problem is in how few black players take and get through their badges, and I just won't accept that's because they're collectively less able.

I just don't understand why everyone gets so up-in-arms whenever a black player even raises this issue. I must have much less confidence than you do in football people.
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« Reply #1519 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:37:12 »

So by me suggesting that very few have the ability to manage is me being a racist...ok then good reasoning.

I think very few WHITE ex footballers make good managers does that also make me racist against white people? I will never forget you calling me a racist even if you wish to brush it under the carpet. I am far from racist and do not take kindly to you calling me one.

I thought I was addressing it, rather than brushing it under the carpet. Don't suppose it will make a difference to you, but I said I thought your underlying assumption was racist. Not you as a person, who I'm not qualified to judge. We all make slips.
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« Reply #1520 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:39:07 »

The issue seems to be lower down. I have read that the problem is in how few black players take and get through their badges, and I just won't accept that's because they're collectively less able.
Nobody has suggest that they are COLLECTIVELY less able, that came from in your interpretation of the statements, its just that often the ones that shout the loudest about being victimized (Ince, Barnes etc) are INDIVIDUALLY less able.
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Flashheart

« Reply #1521 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:39:49 »



I just don't understand why everyone gets so up-in-arms whenever a black player even raises this issue. I must have much less confidence than you do in football people

We don't get up in arms, we just call call bullshit.

We hear racism this and racism that and even get criticised for not getting objecting about alleged racism in football, yet nobody can give an example of when it has actually happened. Why should people believe in something and even act upon anything when it can even be shown that it is actually a problem?

If people want others to object to this alleged racism then they should stop waffling and give us something to object to. "Because Sol Campbell/John Barnes says so" just doesn't cut it.
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kerry red

« Reply #1522 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:42:52 »

Surely, it is up to any ex footballer, black or white, if he wants to go for his coaching badges or not.

If people are saying black footballers don't bother because they think 'racism' will prevent them from getting a job afterwards, then I say that's bollocks.

If you don't buy a ticket you can't win the raffle.
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« Reply #1523 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:43:02 »

Oh and I think JFH is doing a great job at Burton and he could with a good tail wind be one of the more successful managers of other ethnic backgrounds.

I was a little disappointed that we didn't appoint him when Cooper got the job after he applied as he always came accross as one of the more intelligent and well educated ex footballers.
« Last Edit: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:44:39 by Peter Venkman » Logged

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« Reply #1524 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:46:58 »

Chris Ramsey is an interesting case....he's been around a long time and is clearly a decent coach. I wonder if he's applied for manager's jobs, or just has been happy to do the coaching, the two are not necessarily the same.
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« Reply #1525 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:53:41 »

Rambo is another very educated ex pro and did his due dilligence learning his badges and managing at schoolboy/youth/academy/U21 level to get where he is through hard work.

He has also been coach and assistant manager in various countries (USA and Malta) building up his experience rather than just saying that because he is an ex pro then he has some kind of right of passage to become a manager...it doesn't work like that.

Chris was obviously a man of talent that was spotted fairly early by him being appointed England U20 manager/head coach in 98, he must have shown some ability to those in the know back then.
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« Reply #1526 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 18:24:25 »

Well, I don't want to do this whole debate again, since I thought we'd done it to death last time,
http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=44987.msg1290217#msg1290217
but I'm still uncomfortable with your (repeated) assertion that black footballers are only being denied jobs in management because only a very few have the ability. At best, from the regular insights we're given into the mentality of the football establishment, I'd say it's possible there is some racism involved.

What intrigues me more is why everyone always seems so keen to defend the consistently reputable, upstanding football establishment against these repeated claims of racism.

Not defending anyone; there is almost certainly some racism going on. I just don't believe it's institutional.
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« Reply #1527 on: Saturday, April 18, 2015, 13:16:02 »

Not sure this has been posted on here, apologies if it has, but it disgusts me.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/17/blackpool-fan-20000-oystons-threaten-court-online-post
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« Reply #1528 on: Saturday, April 18, 2015, 13:27:16 »

I have read that the problem is in how few black players take and get through their badges, and I just won't accept that's because they're collectively less able.
So what do you think is the reason for this then? There is quite literally nothing to stop them doing this apart from the fact that they simply don't want to is there?
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« Reply #1529 on: Saturday, April 18, 2015, 13:42:00 »

Not sure this has been posted on here, apologies if it has, but it disgusts me.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/17/blackpool-fan-20000-oystons-threaten-court-online-post

That really is a disgrace. I hope the old boy gets the support from his fellow fans.
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