Managerial Merry-go-round 2021-2022; sack, shuffle, repeat

[Walter White]

Don't see how you can make, or agree with, such a sweeping statement unless you're a seasoned football insider. As an outsider, I've seen enough evidence of racist views at all levels of the game over the years to think it's entirely plausible that there are occasions where it's a factor in making an employment decision.

I think it's a bit worrying if some of you really believe it's all just bad losers whining. Things only started to change when people challenged attitudes. And to think that Venkman uses the Specials logo as an avatar...

I guess if anyone can judge racism its you

[Flashheart]

What the fuck do the specials have to do with it?

[chalkies_shorts]

As for the Specials....if you look closely at my avatar its fucking Laurel and Hardy you fucking cunt.

Two white boys - racist.

[Red Frog]

Ironic you say my post is racist.

If a man is good enough then he will get the job no matter what colour his skin.

As for the Specials....if you look closely at my avatar its fucking Laurel and Hardy you fucking cunt.

You said: "Its not an issue or race or hostility to black managers....its an issue of ability." Yes, I think your underlying assumption that only two(?) black ex-players have the ability to be managing a league football team is racist. Apart from which, the confidence with which you assert this is based on how many years of observing day-to-day business within football clubs?

And that's a bloody shit Hardy then.

What the fuck do the specials have to do with it?

They have quite a bit to do with changing attitudes to race since the 80s. Still work to do though...

I guess if anyone can judge racism its you

 

[Flashheart]

///Yes, I think your underlying assumption that only two(?) black ex-players have the ability to be managing a league football team is racist.///

So then how many black managers do you think would be the most suitable applicant for a vacancy?

[Samdy Gray]

[Peter Venkman]

You said: "Its not an issue or race or hostility to black managers....its an issue of ability." Yes, I think your underlying assumption that only two(?) black ex-players have the ability to be managing a league football team is racist. Apart from which, the confidence with which you assert this is based on how many years of observing day-to-day business within football clubs?

There in lies YOUR problem....YOU think therefore YOU assume.

My comment was not in any way racist and only YOU think it is...chip on your shoulder about being accused of racism in the past? I THINK so...see what I did there?

If a manager is black, yellow, white or fucking red if he is good enough he will get the job....sorry if that racist to JUST you, but it is the truth.

Yes the league could do with more black managers because its good to have diversity but so few ex players, who coincidentally are black, seem either to not be applying for jobs or not getting the jobs because they don't have the right credentials or coaching experience.

Thats not racism thats a basic "not being good enough or experienced enough to get the job".

What is overlooked in the "lack of black managers" argument is that of all ex professionals that leave the game I would guess that the actual figure of ex players going into coaching/managing is probably less than 1% and if a quarter of those are black as the figures suggest then thats about 0.2% of all ex footballers who go into coaching will be black, its a matter of statistics.

At the end of the day there are only 92 managers jobs in the Football League and clubs will appoint the best man for the job despite his colour/religion/sexual preference etc etc.

[Tails]

Don't see how you can make, or agree with, such a sweeping statement unless you're a seasoned football insider. As an outsider, I've seen enough evidence of racist views at all levels of the game over the years to think it's entirely plausible that there are occasions where it's a factor in making an employment decision.

I think it's a bit worrying if some of you really believe it's all just bad losers whining. Things only started to change when people challenged attitudes. And to think that Venkman uses the Specials logo as an avatar...

Oh I've seen racism at every level. I've seen it directed at a family member aged 11 playing football, so don't think I don't know what can happen. I have just seen absolutely no evidence that managers are being turned away BECAUSE they are black. I'm pretty sure it was Collymore who ignited this debate (again) after Powell was sacked by Charlton. The sacking was unfair, but it wasn't because of his colour, yet just because he was black an unneccessary race issue was brought up.

I'm not an insider by any means, and I know that racism is (unfortunately) still an issue in this country, but I just don't believe and have seen absolutely no convincing arguments (and believe me, I've looked) that suggest that this is the case. I just don't see why ANYONE would appoint a white coach over a black coach if they thought the black coach was better suited. Maybe that's me being naive. I just have a strong feeling that making up an issue harms the cause, and that's what frustrates me.

[Honkytonk]

[Peter Venkman]

[Amir]

What is overlooked in the "lack of black managers" argument is that of all ex professionals that leave the game I would guess that the actual figure of ex players going into coaching/managing is probably less than 1% and if a quarter of those are black as the figures suggest then thats about 0.2% of all ex footballers who go into coaching will be black, its a matter of statistics.

You've got yourself a bit confused there, however, I was just about to say what you need is figures for black players doing their coaching badges, and the percentage of first time appointments that are black.

If it is 25% doing their badges, that would suggest there probably is an issue. I don't know though, and neither do any of you. Carry on...

[Red Frog]

Well as an outsider, I've seen enough evidence of racist attitudes in football not to share your unshakeable confidence that it's never an issue. I do think it's odd, if nothing more, that there are only two black managers in the League, given the percentage of black players in the game. It may well be that many aren't suitable as manager material, but that may also be because they're discouraged from going into coaching earlier in their careers. Again, I'm not asserting this is definitely true, but I think it's entirely possible given what I have read about attitudes in football.

I accept that most decision-makers (from youth coach up to chairman) won't behave like this, and will appoint only on ability, but it's your complete denial that this is even possibly an issue, and the assumption that the "race card" is only ever cynically played, that I'm challenging.

Seems to boil down to:
YOU: Unproven so doesn't happen anywhere
ME: Unproven but quite possibly does happen in places

[Tails]

I'm not ruling it it out altogether, I can't, but the only testaments I've seen from black coaches who feel they have been given an unfair advantage due to their race were ones who did a poor job and were sacked for it. 

If someone came up with some tangible evidence then I'd go with it but until then I feel pretty safe in my assumption that, while it is possible, it is unlikely. I agree that the fact there is only 2 seems a bit off, but that doesn't mean it's full blown race issue in my eyes.

[Honkytonk]

Perhaps the issue here is why do so few black coaches go through the system to a high level? Let's just put aside claims of institutional racism for a moment, is there another reason why they are so poorly unrepresented at the top levels?

[Flashheart]

Perhaps the issue here is why do so few black coaches go through the system to a high level? Let's just put aside claims of institutional racism for a moment, is there another reason why they are so poorly unrepresented at the top levels?

Few even get qualified.

Paul Ince, Chris Powell and Chris Hughton seem to be getting the opportunities. If race is an issue, then how come the aforementioned managers don't seem to have a problem?

It seems to be a case not of discrimination when it comes to employing managers but few black players are going into coaching once their playing careers are over.