Poll
Question: How do you intend to vote?  (Voting closed: Thursday, May 23, 2019, 17:00:47)
Conservatives - 4 (4.4%)
Labour - 6 (6.7%)
LibDem - 30 (33.3%)
Brexit Party - 23 (25.6%)
Change UK - 2 (2.2%)
UKIP - 1 (1.1%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Green - 15 (16.7%)
Plaid Cymru - 1 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 8 (8.9%)
Total Voters: 88

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Author Topic: European Elections 23rd May  (Read 7633 times)
Mister Lorenzo
Dirk Diggler


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« Reply #195 on: Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 18:21:37 »

Although Honda seem to feel differently.

It's easy to pick Honda when in reality the reason they're pulling out of the UK is the EU in their infinite wisdom removed tariffs for imports from Japan, negating the reason for Honda to have a UK base.
This has been compounded by falling demand for the Civic worldwide, which isn't surprising given how ugly it is.

Why not move production to your home nation providing local jobs when the reason for being in the UK is no longer valid?
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pauld


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« Reply #196 on: Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 19:37:38 »

It's easy to pick Honda when in reality the reason they're pulling out of the UK is the EU in their infinite wisdom removed tariffs for imports from Japan, negating the reason for Honda to have a UK base.
Yes I know that. I was replying to your suggestion that the UK car market was in a temporary blip from which it would recover. Honda clearly feel differently, if they thought the UK car market was about to (re)blossom, they'd at least have left a token presence here to get round any possibility of tariffs post-Brexit. Whereas in fact they seem to be quite happy to just sell into the EU, the Asian and US markets all of which they see as growing while we are in decline.
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Mister Lorenzo
Dirk Diggler


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« Reply #197 on: Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 20:15:14 »

Yes I know that. I was replying to your suggestion that the UK car market was in a temporary blip from which it would recover. Honda clearly feel differently, if they thought the UK car market was about to (re)blossom, they'd at least have left a token presence here to get round any possibility of tariffs post-Brexit. Whereas in fact they seem to be quite happy to just sell into the EU, the Asian and US markets all of which they see as growing while we are in decline.
It is a temporary blip due to the diesel issue. Honda moving back to Japan is for totally different reasons but that doesn't fit your narrative.
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pauld


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« Reply #198 on: Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 22:07:27 »

It is a temporary blip due to the diesel issue. Honda moving back to Japan is for totally different reasons but that doesn't fit your narrative.
Honda are moving back to Japan for a variety of reasons, among which is that the UK car market is stagnant and not likely to improve. Either way you started this by saying that we'd definitely get a great trade deal with Europe because the German car industry depended on selling to the UK, citing the UK being the second biggest market for them. Except it isn't, it's second in Europe, and declining. Your argument's bust. French cheese exports next? Italian sausages?
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Mister Lorenzo
Dirk Diggler


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« Reply #199 on: Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 23:45:29 »

Honda are moving back to Japan for a variety of reasons, among which is that the UK car market is stagnant and not likely to improve. Either way you started this by saying that we'd definitely get a great trade deal with Europe because the German car industry depended on selling to the UK, citing the UK being the second biggest market for them. Except it isn't, it's second in Europe, and declining. Your argument's bust. French cheese exports next? Italian sausages?
Absolute rubbish, Honda are in trouble as they aren't making cars that people want to buy, it's really that simple.
So I made a mistake by saying the UK was the German car industries second biggest market, even if it's only their second biggest European market it's still significant and one they won't want to lose.

Let's all talk down how unimportant the UK market is and we'll be beaten before we've begun!!

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Mister Lorenzo
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« Reply #200 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 00:14:09 »

Do you remember some of the claims made before the initial Brexit vote;


Claim: A vote to leave ‘would cause an immediate and profound economic shock’ which would ‘push the UK into recession’. Treasury analysis claimed the economy would ‘fall into recession, with four quarters of negative growth’.

Reality: False. The UK’s economic growth has remained positive for every quarter since the referendum, with Britain finishing the year as one of the fastest growing economies in the G7.

Claim: Unemployment ‘would increase by around 500,000’ in the wake of a Brexit vote.

Reality: False. Britain’s employment rate has risen since the referendum. In the three months to January, unemployment fell to 4.7 per cent – the best rate since 1975.

Claim: A Brexit vote ‘would immediately lead to an increase in the premium for lending to UK businesses and households’.

Reality: False. The Bank of England responded to the referendum result by cutting interest rates to a historic low of 0.25 per cent, where they have remained.

etc etc etc
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pauld


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« Reply #201 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 06:55:34 »

Claim: Doing a deal with the EU "would be the easiest trade deal in history"
Reality: False

Claim: Brexit would lead to £350m per week being put into the NHS
Reality: False

Claim: Turkey is about to join the EU and staying in would open up our borders to 77m Turks
Reality: False
(And as a bonus point Boris Johnson then later lied about saying he had not spoken about Turkey during the campaign when denying he had helped stoke nationalist anti-immigrant sentiment - he was called out as being demonstrably false by pretty much every national newspaper)

Claim: Getting out of the EU will be quick and easy as the UK holds most of the cards (actually John Redwood but pretty much summarises Lorenzo's past two pages)
Reality: Palpably false

Claim: We're not really interested in a transition deal, but we'll consider one to be kind to the EU
Reality: False

Claim: Within two years, before the negotiations with the EU are complete, we will have negotiated a new free trade area massively larger than the EU
Reality: We have a deal with Lichenstein

etc etc etc
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Bogus Dave
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« Reply #202 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 08:43:37 »

Another brexit bonus for the UK car industry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48451024
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Things get better but they never get good
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« Reply #203 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 08:57:51 »

Absolute rubbish, Honda are in trouble as they aren't making cars that people want to buy, it's really that simple.
So I made a mistake by saying the UK was the German car industries second biggest market, even if it's only their second biggest European market it's still significant and one they won't want to lose......

No Car manufacturer wants to lose any business anywhere.  But your figures show the whole of the UK market for Audi AG to be 2.5 times LESS than Group's increase in worldwide sales for 2017 alone.  The peacock puff given to the impact of falling German car sales in the UK has already proven false in practice, obviously, and continuing now with that line is beating a dead horse.

The falling pound (correctly predicted) has tended to make German car imports more expensive in the UK.  

Specifically Brexit, you may have noted that factory shutdowns in the UK, designed to cope with disruption on 29 March, slashed car production in April with home and overseas markets falling by 43.7% and 44.7% respectively.

Should we give more weight to "fuck business" Boris Johnson or to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders ("SMMT")?

"Prolonged instability has done untold damage, with the fear of 'no deal' holding back progress, causing investment to stall, jobs to be lost and undermining our global reputation......a no-deal Brexit would make the declines worse with the threat of border delays, production stoppages and additional costs".


Threatening to try and damage a larger economy, even at the greater expense of one's own, is certainly, well, er, novel.  We are talking trade negotiations not the re-enactment of WW2.
« Last Edit: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 09:06:28 by RedRag » Logged
Mister Lorenzo
Dirk Diggler


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« Reply #204 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 11:50:19 »

If you had any real grasp of the car industry you'd understand that diesel is the single biggest issue affecting the UK car market.
Look at Jaguar/Landrover most of the models they sell are diesel and they are now only just catching up by introducing hybrid models. They are also losing out due to a massive drop in sales in Asia, is that caused by Brexit?
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« Reply #205 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 11:53:32 »

They are also losing out due to a massive drop in sales in Asia, is that caused by Brexit?

Nope, by UK government policy change after years of promoting diesel.  Bloody EU.

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Mister Lorenzo
Dirk Diggler


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« Reply #206 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 11:55:03 »

Claim: Doing a deal with the EU "would be the easiest trade deal in history"
Reality: False

Claim: Brexit would lead to £350m per week being put into the NHS
Reality: False

Claim: Turkey is about to join the EU and staying in would open up our borders to 77m Turks
Reality: False
(And as a bonus point Boris Johnson then later lied about saying he had not spoken about Turkey during the campaign when denying he had helped stoke nationalist anti-immigrant sentiment - he was called out as being demonstrably false by pretty much every national newspaper)

Claim: Getting out of the EU will be quick and easy as the UK holds most of the cards (actually John Redwood but pretty much summarises Lorenzo's past two pages)
Reality: Palpably false

Claim: We're not really interested in a transition deal, but we'll consider one to be kind to the EU
Reality: False

Claim: Within two years, before the negotiations with the EU are complete, we will have negotiated a new free trade area massively larger than the EU
Reality: We have a deal with Lichenstein

etc etc etc

See, we can both spout shite, you do seem better at it than most, however it doesn't make either of us right or wrong!
« Last Edit: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 11:58:24 by Mister Lorenzo » Logged
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Thingie


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« Reply #207 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 12:07:41 »

Quite a mixed bag on the economy, not exactly thriving since the Brexit vote compared to other G7 members:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/22/uk-economy-since-the-brexit-vote-slower-gdp-growth-lower-productivity-and-a-weaker-pound/
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horlock07


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« Reply #208 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 12:14:23 »

Declining car sales in the UK have been caused by the demonisation of Diesel as a fuel, and car makers have been playing catch up to introduce supposedly cleaner alternatives.

So why is this decline only affecting UK sales, have we suddenly become more environmentally aware than the rest of the world, must have missed that?
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horlock07


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« Reply #209 on: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 12:19:20 »


I'm using the car industry as an example, there must be countless other EU industries in a similar situation who "need us as much as we need them".

Go on then name some backed up with evidence to support your position?

Plus you have decided to avoid answering the wider issue of the extent to which fucking up the EU just to keep some arrogant British people living in the 1920's  happy would be good forf EU industries which depend on open borders etc?
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