European Elections 23rd May

[Mister Lorenzo]

I assume leave means leave, means brexit means brexit so basically nothing of substance in the real world?

However if you are pushing the leave with no deal angle so loved by those who haven't really though about the consequences, a little poser for you.

As it stands c.44% of our exports go to the EU and c.53% of our imports come from there, now unless you are proposing that we give up a very large percentage of our exports and accept the employment chaos that would cause and the majority of our imports a lot of which is food, we are going to have to reach some manner of trade deal with the EU going forward.

Does it not cross your mind that the first thing they are going to say in order to open those negotiations, taking note of the size of their market and the size of ours, are;

1. what about that money you still owe us?
2. what about the rights of EU citizens in the UK?
3. what are you planning to do about the Irish border?

And when we provide satisfactory answers to them, then we may talk?

As for who is fucking the country, it looks remarkably like the Brexiteers are doing that?

You do realise that outside of their home markets Audi/Mercedes/BMW's second biggest market is the UK. Don't you think it might be in their interest as much as ours to work out a deal or is your summary just another blinkered view/project fear?

[ReadingRed]

Ted Heath, 1973:
The community which we are joining is far more than a common market.  It is a community in the true sense of that term.
It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union...with social issues - environmental questions, working conditions in industry, consumer protection, aid to development areas and vocational training.

It's also worth remembering that the 1975 referendum took place AFTER the uk had negotiated terms of joining the EC, and the details of that agreement published and agreed by both Houses. So people knew what they were voting for.

In contrast, May's decision to invoke Article 50 without any agreement - with Corbyn's collusion - empowers people to cobble together their own impossible versions of Brexit and spout meaningless phrases like "leave means leave" without consequence so has led us to the mess we are in today.
 

[Exiled Bob]

You do realise that outside of their home markets Audi/Mercedes/BMW's second biggest market is the UK. Don't you think it might be in their interest as much as ours to work out a deal......

Obviously.....but it isn't them that's pushing for a no deal scenario is it?

[horlock07]

You do realise that outside of their home markets Audi/Mercedes/BMW's second biggest market is the UK. Don't you think it might be in their interest as much as ours to work out a deal or is your summary just another blinkered view/project fear?

Jesus, what is it with Brexiteers and a fear of facts, 5 secs on google...

BMW less than 10% of their sales are in UK lagging behind China, USA and their home market.

Similar trends followed by both Mercedes and Audi, the whole second biggest market thing is just further bollocks spouted by politicians and gobbled up greedily by the believers. Simple fact is exports to UK have been declining, exports to far east going through the roof, they have more important things than pandering to our colonial fantasies and national nervous breakdown.

FWIW if the blessed German car makers were going to save us do you not think they might have done so already, but no they haven't because they realise that in building their cars they depend upon the EU and a European supply chain: your German car probably has a Polish engine, a Spanish body, Italian seats and other components from Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania. European integration and just-on-time delivery is essential for such companies competition with other car makers.

Therefore despite our arrogance, selling cars to Britain isn’t worth compromising on EU integrity for them.

I hate to break it to you, but the NHS aren't getting £350m a week extra, despite what you were promised.

[Reg Smeeton]

Jesus, what is it with Brexiteers and a fear of facts, 5 secs on google...

BMW less than 10% of their sales are in UK lagging behind China, USA and their home market.

Similar trends followed by both Mercedes and Audi, the whole second biggest market thing is just further bollocks spouted by politicians and gobbled up greedily by the believers. Simple fact is exports to UK have been declining, exports to far east going through the roof, they have more important things than pandering to our colonial fantasies and national nervous breakdown.

FWIW if the blessed German car makers were going to save us do you not think they might have done so already, but no they haven't because they realise that in building their cars they depend upon the EU and a European supply chain: your German car probably has a Polish engine, a Spanish body, Italian seats and other components from Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania. European integration and just-on-time delivery is essential for such companies competition with other car makers.

Therefore despite our arrogance, selling cars to Britain isn’t worth compromising on EU integrity for them.

I hate to break it to you, but the NHS aren't getting £350m a week extra, despite what you were promised.

But Johnson is going to get his time in Court to argue that it is true, and not a lie 

Presumably, re the cars, al that will happen is they'll just become more expensive in the UK.  I seem to remember a time when purchasing a car on the continent and then bringing it back, was a thing that some peopole did in order to avoid tariffs.

[Mister Lorenzo]

Jesus, what is it with Brexiteers and a fear of facts, 5 secs on google...

BMW less than 10% of their sales are in UK lagging behind China, USA and their home market.

Similar trends followed by both Mercedes and Audi, the whole second biggest market thing is just further bollocks spouted by politicians and gobbled up greedily by the believers. Simple fact is exports to UK have been declining, exports to far east going through the roof, they have more important things than pandering to our colonial fantasies and national nervous breakdown.

FWIW if the blessed German car makers were going to save us do you not think they might have done so already, but no they haven't because they realise that in building their cars they depend upon the EU and a European supply chain: your German car probably has a Polish engine, a Spanish body, Italian seats and other components from Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania. European integration and just-on-time delivery is essential for such companies competition with other car makers.

Therefore despite our arrogance, selling cars to Britain isn’t worth compromising on EU integrity for them.

I hate to break it to you, but the NHS aren't getting £350m a week extra, despite what you were promised.

In Europe then clever bollocks.....

[horlock07]

In Europe then clever bollocks.....

That's not what you said though  , still less than 9% of their market, do companies tend to base big and expensive business decisions on a fickle 10%, and declining, part of their customer base....

But the other point remains true, its not remotely worth them buggering up their entire business model and supply chain just to adapt to the UK having an attack of the collywobbles to achieve apparent benefits which no one in the UK can actually appear to quantify.

Likewise on a larger German scale (As with the vast majority of EU members) they are bordered by loads of countries to upset free movement of goods and introduce various and diverse border regimes is just creating loads of work for them for very little gain, it isn't going to happen.

[Reg Smeeton]

That's not what you said though  , still less than 9% of their market, do companies tend to base big and expensive business decisions on a fickle 10%, and declining, part of their customer base....

But the other point remains true, its not remotely worth them buggering up their entire business model and supply chain just to adapt to the UK having an attack of the collywobbles to achieve apparent benefits which no one in the UK can actually appear to quantify.

Likewise on a larger German scale (As with the vast majority of EU members) they are bordered by loads of countries to upset free movement of goods and introduce various and diverse border regimes is just creating loads of work for them for very little gain, it isn't going to happen.

It also shows that only one country had declining sales from 2016 into 2017.  I wonder what happened in 2016 to cause that 

[RedRag]

In Europe then clever bollocks.....

In terms of "No deal" planning, I see Audi AG's sales to the UK are FALLING but are more than compensated for within the EU by rising sales to France, Spain, Italy etc and beyond the EU by increases to the USA and (Massively) to CHINA.

The German car argument has been proved to be yet more Brexiter "Project Fear" about the EU.

Your own figures demonstrate that the declining UK market share for Audi AG is being totally eclipsed by increased sales elsewhere: both in the EU and especially in the Far East.  

Call it "Global EU", if you like.

[RedRag]

It also shows that only one country had declining sales from 2016 into 2017.  I wonder what happened in 2016 to cause that 

[Mister Lorenzo]

Declining car sales in the UK have been caused by the demonisation of Diesel as a fuel, and car makers have been playing catch up to introduce supposedly cleaner alternatives.

[Legends-Lounge]

Declining car sales in the UK have been caused by the demonisation of Diesel as a fuel, and car makers have been playing catch up to introduce supposedly cleaner alternatives.

This

[pauld]

Declining car sales in the UK have been caused by the demonisation of Diesel as a fuel, and car makers have been playing catch up to introduce supposedly cleaner alternatives.

That may be so. But whatever the cause, we are a declining market for German cars, which just further undermines your argument that BMW/Audi etc are going to step in and "save" Brexit

[Mister Lorenzo]

That may be so. But whatever the cause, we are a declining market for German cars, which just further undermines your argument that BMW/Audi etc are going to step in and "save" Brexit

That may be so but it won't be like that forever, it's just a snapshot in time that we're looking at and I don't think that car manufacturers are as short sighted as some on here.

I'm using the car industry as an example, there must be countless other EU industries in a similar situation who "need us as much as we need them".

[pauld]

That may be so but it won't be like that forever, it's just a snapshot in time that we're looking at

Although Honda seem to feel differently.