Poll
Question: How do you intend to vote?  (Voting closed: Thursday, May 23, 2019, 16:00:47)
Conservatives - 4 (4.4%)
Labour - 6 (6.7%)
LibDem - 30 (33.3%)
Brexit Party - 23 (25.6%)
Change UK - 2 (2.2%)
UKIP - 1 (1.1%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Green - 15 (16.7%)
Plaid Cymru - 1 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 8 (8.9%)
Total Voters: 80

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Author Topic: European Elections 23rd May  (Read 29989 times)
pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #150 on: Monday, May 27, 2019, 19:14:33 »

What was Dave's deal?
Prior to the referendum Cameron went to the EU and got some reforms and opt-outs from a few bits and pieces to make the idea of staying in the EU more palatable to some in his own party. The whole thing has really just been about the Tories' internal splits. Possibly the only positive to come out of the whole sorry mess might be that they look to be on course to completely implode. In which case Cameron and May will be up there among the greatest every Tory leaders.
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Exiled Bob

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« Reply #151 on: Monday, May 27, 2019, 19:15:05 »

"Six form performance art project" I'd take that any day, nicest thing anyones ever said about me on this site!
The number of Brexiteers that have only the most basic grasp of English is revealing. I doubt you were anywhere near the Sixth Form at school.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #152 on: Monday, May 27, 2019, 19:40:11 »

Prior to the referendum Cameron went to the EU and got some reforms and opt-outs from a few bits and pieces to make the idea of staying in the EU more palatable to some in his own party. The whole thing has really just been about the Tories' internal splits. Possibly the only positive to come out of the whole sorry mess might be that they look to be on course to completely implode.
That's not quite right, the total collapse of UKIP after they drifted to the extremes of the far right and the abject humiliation of "Man of the People" Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (aka Tommy Robinson), were also quite gratifying
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #153 on: Monday, May 27, 2019, 19:52:23 »

Prior to the referendum Cameron went to the EU and got some reforms and opt-outs from a few bits and pieces to make the idea of staying in the EU more palatable to some in his own party. The whole thing has really just been about the Tories' internal splits. Possibly the only positive to come out of the whole sorry mess might be that they look to be on course to completely implode. In which case Cameron and May will be up there among the greatest every Tory leaders.
He asked the EU for fuck all and got less. The EU will not reform the answer to every question is more EU. Some will be happy with that and a move to a united States of Europe. I know some that would be very happy with it. Others like me don't and although it will be a shitter will be easier now than further down the line with even greater integration
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Arriba

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« Reply #154 on: Monday, May 27, 2019, 19:56:53 »

Prior to the referendum Cameron went to the EU and got some reforms and opt-outs from a few bits and pieces to make the idea of staying in the EU more palatable to some in his own party. The whole thing has really just been about the Tories' internal splits. Possibly the only positive to come out of the whole sorry mess might be that they look to be on course to completely implode. In which case Cameron and May will be up there among the greatest every Tory leaders.
Thanks. Reason I asked was due to not seeing anything like that on the ballot paper. Same as I didn't see anything regarding no deal brexit either.
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #155 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 06:58:24 »

Best headline so far in the Daily Mail this morning.

RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Pundit after pundit was wheeled out to rubbish the election result – it's as if you'd watched Man City win the Cup Final 6-0 only to be told the real winners were Watford.

Of course anything in the Daily Mail, Express and Telegraph can be dismissed as lies by Tory toff baby eaters but none the less very apt.

The result is neither here nor there is it? It is what happens between now and October 31st that will be interesting. 😂😂
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Red Frog
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« Reply #156 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 07:38:49 »

Best headline so far in the Daily Mail this morning.

RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Pundit after pundit was wheeled out to rubbish the election result – it's as if you'd watched Man City win the Cup Final 6-0 only to be told the real winners were Watford.

Of course anything in the Daily Mail, Express and Telegraph can be dismissed as lies by Tory toff baby eaters but none the less very apt.

The result is neither here nor there is it? It is what happens between now and October 31st that will be interesting. 😂😂

Except it wasn't 6-0 was it. Or even close to that convincing.
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Tout ce que je sais de plus sûr à propos de la moralité et des obligations des hommes, c'est au football que je le dois. - Albert Camus
Shrivvy Road

« Reply #157 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 07:38:58 »

The number of Brexiteers that have only the most basic grasp of English is revealing. I doubt you were anywhere near the Sixth Form at school.
It's that kind of attitude that helps keep the divide going. I voted remain and have a horrific grasp on the english language due to be dyslexic until i was 14. Does not mean i voted leave though,yours and others like you and your snobbish attitude the way you talk down to people are as equally as bad as anyone who voted leave.
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #158 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 07:45:13 »

Its a set of results that supports just about any narrative you want. We are where we were unsurprisingly. The majority of people couldn't give a shit. Those who feel strongly gravitated to parties that were absolutely clear what they were standing for. Others who could be bothered to vote, voted along more traditional lines. The country was divided, it still is.
Brexit has seen Cameron and May off. It may well see the next Tory leader off and I think Corbyn may well be next as his hedging all bets didn't work and he's coming under increasing challenge to actually lead which he has spectacularly failed to do. He's still the Tories biggest asset.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #159 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 08:07:52 »

If the U.K. does not leave and by that I mean leave in a manner that serves the U.K. first

Genuine question: what does that look like, in your opinion? What is your preferred (realistic) arrangement for us leaving the EU?
3rd time of asking: what does "leaving in a manner that serves the UK first" look like? Starting to think you don't actually know?
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #160 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 08:13:25 »

Its a set of results that supports just about any narrative you want. We are where we were unsurprisingly. The majority of people couldn't give a shit. Those who feel strongly gravitated to parties that were absolutely clear what they were standing for. Others who could be bothered to vote, voted along more traditional lines. The country was divided, it still is.
Brexit has seen Cameron and May off. It may well see the next Tory leader off and I think Corbyn may well be next as his hedging all bets didn't work and he's coming under increasing challenge to actually lead which he has spectacularly failed to do. He's still the Tories biggest asset.

Elections to the Europen Parliament, needs to be placed in overall European context.... and here it was encouraging to see gains made by the Greens, and far right parties not getting their predicted surge. This should enable the Greens to push a more environmentally friendly agenda, especially on climate change into the mainstream centrists politics, of the Social Democrats (Labour in GB) and Christian Democrats (old Tory in UK).

Cameron and May were both seen off by their own incompetence.... Brexit a symptom of that.  Labour has shown signs of wising up of moving further to the left, to take on board green issues, but it has before now without delivering anything concrete... apart from new builds in green fields.
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Oldwembley69

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« Reply #161 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 08:56:01 »

Its a set of results that supports just about any narrative you want. We are where we were unsurprisingly. The majority of people couldn't give a shit. Those who feel strongly gravitated to parties that were absolutely clear what they were standing for. Others who could be bothered to vote, voted along more traditional lines. The country was divided, it still is.
Brexit has seen Cameron and May off. It may well see the next Tory leader off and I think Corbyn may well be next as his hedging all bets didn't work and he's coming under increasing challenge to actually lead which he has spectacularly failed to do. He's still the Tories biggest asset.

Agree with what you have said. If fact we are where we are because the country has not had an opportunity to vote before (2016) on leaving. The 2016 referendum was the very first opportunity. Originally, we voted to go into a 'common market' then every government since has taken us deeper. It has been said that if we did not like it  then we could vote against it in General elections. BUT.. No party has raised the issue or had leave in its Manifesto. If the Brexit party or UKIP were around  years ago  then maybe this would have raised its head sooner. In fact is that UKIP probably the first opportunity and now Brexit Party to actually gauge national opinion on the matter! Yes governments are voted in to run the the country on all matters. Being in Europe has been one sided with little opportunity to vote before 2016 on leaving, hence this issue now. It can be seen that the main parties are not in favour so who do you vote for if you wished a Brexit to happen. Clearly there is now a party that may now go forward to actually allow voters a voice on this matter in a General Election!
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horlock07

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« Reply #162 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 09:01:56 »

Just a hypothetical question regarding a 3rd referendum the first one in the 70's was for remain even though the public were mislead with a promise of a new deal which wasn't forth coming.

Yeah cos they weren't misled in the slightest in 2016 now were they.... 

The 2nd ref. 2016 was dave's deal or leave which even with the government spunking 9 million pounds of tax payers and nearly all media outlets supporting remain, remain lost.

All media outlets, really?Huh?Clap

You take rose tinted to a whole new level of bollocks!  Suicide
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horlock07

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« Reply #163 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 09:04:25 »

Royal Mail is a private provider.... it was made so by Horlock's mate Cable.

You are getting evermore cultist by the day, anyway Cable is out the door having done what was needed absorbing the toxicity and mopping up the defecting Labour refugees.

I assume your conclusion on the EU elections is that being spouted all over social media, along the lines of 'Labour were punished for living in the real world. Neither “bollocks to Brexit” nor No Deal. We suffered trying to deliver the will of the people without harming those very people, by pushing for things like a customs union. The result doesn’t make Labour any less grownup.'
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #164 on: Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 09:24:27 »

Agree with what you have said. If fact we are where we are because the country has not had an opportunity to vote before (2016) on leaving. The 2016 referendum was the very first opportunity. Originally, we voted to go into a 'common market' then every government since has taken us deeper. It has been said that if we did not like it  then we could vote against it in General elections. BUT.. No party has raised the issue or had leave in its Manifesto. If the Brexit party or UKIP were around  years ago  then maybe this would have raised its head sooner. In fact is that UKIP probably the first opportunity and now Brexit Party to actually gauge national opinion on the matter! Yes governments are voted in to run the the country on all matters. Being in Europe has been one sided with little opportunity to vote before 2016 on leaving, hence this issue now. It can be seen that the main parties are not in favour so who do you vote for if you wished a Brexit to happen. Clearly there is now a party that may now go forward to actually allow voters a voice on this matter in a General Election!

As is often the case with Brexiteers what you say is simply not true... the Treaty of Rome of 1957, enacted from 1958, outlined all the ideas for developing a closer European Union between the 6, where desirable. We signed up to it and voted to stay in it in the 70's.

The reasons for this were economic self interest, and despite the crises of the 70's as outlined previously down to global fuel costs... largely the decision was vindicated.

Labour in 83 had a clear policy of withdrawal from the EU in its manifesto, got about 27% of the vote.

Thatcher despite her misgivings was keen on driving through the single market..... here's a sample of a speech she gave to business leaders in 88.

"How we meet the challenge of the Single Market will be a major factor, possibly the major factor, in our competitive position in European and world markets into the twenty-first century.  Getting it right needs a partnership between government and business.

The task of government is two-fold: —to negotiate in Brussels so as to get the possible results for Britain; —and then to make you the business community aware of the opportunities, so that you can make the most of them.

It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer.

Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power  of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people.

Bigger than Japan. Bigger than the United States. On your doorstep. And with the Channel Tunnel to give you direct access to it.

It's not a dream.  It's not a vision. It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real. And it's only five years away."

Business both large and small often did take the opportunities outlined.  This contrasts with the current state of play, whereby no deal Tory leadership favourite Johnson, can say "fuck business".
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