EU Referendum

[Arriba]

What a mess it is. The government are now split and so are the opposition. Somehow we are meant to be running things ourselves now which is the irony of it all.

[sonicyouth]

Slightly surprised by the comments of some that politicians lie therefore we've just got to deal with it. Surely the point of it all is to hold politicians to account when they lie in the hope that honest politicians take over?

Yes, I do believe there are some out there. I think Corbyn is one.

[Reg Smeeton]

 Farage has come out and said don't blame Brexit therefore me for the incipient recession, it was coming anyway. All down to Osborne.

[adje]

Slightly surprised by the comments of some that politicians lie therefore we've just got to deal with it. Surely the point of it all is to hold politicians to account when they lie in the hope that honest politicians take over?

Yes, I do believe there are some out there. I think Corbyn is one.

in my opinion you are entirely correct.i trust corbyn more than any of the labour mps who are trying to oust him.

[moredonboy]

Hardly ever post here - just like to say I hail from the heady days of Rogers/Hunt/Woodruff/Mike Summerbee.
I live in Scotland now.
I want to say how amazing it is (or maybe not) that most of your posts are in line with my thoughts.
Just posted this on FB - trying to find positives from this referendum (which should never have happened)

POSITIVES and semi POSITIVES from the EU Referendum

Not a sniff of ‘it was fixed’ from Bremainers
UK Parliament is being forced by petition to debate the result
Pre vote - the EU did not interfere in the UK debate
Post vote -much of the electorate still trying to work out what the EU really is
At the end of the ‘leaving’ process the UK electorate will understand the true nature of the EU
Intelligent people challenging the indiscriminate use of referenda
Fundamental fractures in the political parties – old ones to perish? – will there be new ones?
If democracy is at stake – there has to be a General Election by the end of 2016
Our ideas of ‘democracy’ will be challenged – but will it make any difference?
The growing awareness that ‘democracy’ is fragile and needs nurturing

[RobertT]

Hmm, there could be a faint hope that some sort of PR is now pushed for as it is clear a sense of not being listened to was at play.  The current process means well over half the people in every constituency can feel frustrated.

[Flashheart]

Apparently, the petition for another referendum was started by a 'leave' voter. He started it before the vote at a time when it was looking likely that 'remain' would win.

Oops.

[LucienSanchez]

This story.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

I seriously can't fathom how Remain failed in places like that. I can't believe people are that stupid

[FormerlyPlymRed]

I seriously can't fathom how Remain failed in places like that. I can't believe people are that stupid

Same as Cornwall and quite a few others. No idea how they think leaving the EU is going to benefit them  :'(

[Reg Smeeton]

I seriously can't fathom how Remain failed in places like that. I can't believe people are that stupid

This is where the disconnect between Labour and its natural heartland kicks in....past MP's for the area include Aneurin Bevan and Michael Foot.  Political giants, because the Labour movement was forged in the pits and steelworks....now gone.

Labour just assumes it can rely on people's votes in the remnants of these areas..while living in political bubble.

In my opinion Corbyn shopuld have been arguing for out, a position he's always held and presenting a case of how a Labour Brexit could provide opportunities for those left behind.

[RobertT]

This is where the disconnect between Labour and its natural heartland kicks in....past MP's for the area include Aneurin Bevan and Michael Foot.  Political giants, because the Labour movement was forged in the pits and steelworks....now gone.

Labour just assumes it can rely on people's votes in the remnants of these areas..while living in political bubble.

In my opinion Corbyn shopuld have been arguing for out, a position he's always held and presenting a case of how a Labour Brexit could provide opportunities for those left behind.

Agree Reg, most of the social policy enacted in the 90's/early 00's was during a Labour majority Govt. anyway, so could easily have been replicated even if out of Europe.  It seemed like Corbyn, and the Unions were acting out of fear/knowing it could be a while before they get that chance without the EU bossing the ruling right wing party in the UK.  This should have played right into their hands if they'd been on the Leave side of the fence - have a vision for what the future could be for the working class even acknowledging the fact that regional support grants from the EU would go.

On those grants - this is exactly the point people are missing.  Most people finally voted for"control" against economic certainty.  They'll be thinking they can replace those EU grants because we'll be able to re-distribute the same money ourselves (mixed up with the silly NHS claims).  Of course, the issue here is the ruling party are more likely to just cut this spending to balance the books.

[pauld]

Reg and RobT both right. There is a wider failure of Labour and the left in general to offer any coherent alternative to the choice between mainstream post-Thatcherite Toryism and the radical populist right. There was no left of centre argument properly presented for either staying in or leaving the EU, if Blairite Labour politicians are now turning on Corbyn for his failure to lead the charge, they should also be asking how they have become so far from their core support that this has come as a shock to them. Much of the shit doled out to ordinary working people by the coalition and the current govt was often only a continuation of neo-con policies started by New Labour. I'm no great fan of Corbyn's at all, but most of those agitating for his removal are looking to blame him for what was only the end product of a much deeper rot that they created

[Saxondale]

2 weeks and the Chilcot report comes out.  It'll be interesting if many people want to nail their colours to the Blairite mast after that.

[pauld]

2 weeks and the Chilcot report comes out.  It'll be interesting if many people want to nail their colours to the Blairite mast after that.

Quite. I'd happily nail the war criminal Blair to any mast you have handy though if that helps? Love to see him sharing the same cell as Jack Straw and the Bushes.

[bathford]

Interestingly, the media made a lot of a a remain vote would be good for the 20 something's who were forward thinking.
The BBC on a number of occasions noted that this age group showed little appetite for the process.

The whole campaign appears to have completely passed them by. According to you.gov on Thursday morning, 57% of 20 - 30 year olds failed to vote.