The refugee crisis.

[Skinny Pete]

These people haven't suddenly thought 'I would like a new washing machine, let's go to Europe'.

They are willing to risk their and their childrens' lives to leave their homes where they fear for their lives.

They need help. Romanians and Bulgarians do not.

[Reg Smeeton]

I damn hope we don't, most of them will just drain the system. We pay too much tax here as it is

I believe Frau Merkel is aware of Germany's need for fresh workers in its factories.

Historically you had the Turkish "guest workers" who could work and earn but not be regarded as citizens, I believe that has now changed. So in a sense Germany is trying to catch up on a process which wehave been undertaking for 60 odd years.

[Reg Smeeton]

These people haven't suddenly thought 'I would like a new washing machine, let's go to Europe'.

They are willing to risk their and their childrens' lives to leave their homes where they fear for their lives.

They need help. Romanians and Bulgarians do not.

No place for racism on the TEF....

[Skinny Pete]

No place for racism on the TEF....

Nothing racist about that. It's the truth that if Romanians and Bulgarians, amongst other Europeans, stay in their own countries they are unlikely to get slaughtered.

The people fleeing Syria will.

[Reg Smeeton]

Nothing racist about that. It's the truth that if Romanians and Bulgarians, amongst other Europeans, stay in their own countries they are unlikely to get slaughtered.

The people fleeing Syria will.

Singling out Romanians and Bulgarians is racist. All citizens of the EU are legally entitled to move within the union.

Syrians escaping slaughter are legally entitled to seek refuge in the first country they can reach....then can legally apply to other countries for further temporary refuge.

The key aspect here is legally....we're having this 800 years of Magna Carta thing, which enshrined the rule of law.

If these laws are considered dated or dysfunctional then they can be changed by political process.....no doubt the forthcoming referendum on the EU will focus minds on this subject.

[Ells]

Jaybox is doing nothing. Absolutely Fuck all other than making an empty, worthless and ultimately pointless gesture.

Still, I bet he feels like he, and people like you, feel good about it.

Actually, a lot of "raising awareness" initiatives do make changes. There's very little research on the topic literally, but what is apparent is that human beings live by societal norms and that the more these things become "the norm" in the social groups people live in (i.e. football , as an example) the more people might begin to look into the issue and change their perspective, if necessary.

What I think you mean to describe (and does not apply to Jay at all, imo) is the culture of so-called 'slactivism'. Which you might equate to clicking "like" on a facebook petition and you'd consider completely pointless. Arguably, in some cases, yes it is.

But you know what's more pointless - what doesn't help anybody? Being a dick.

You could have said "Nice idea, but couldn't you spend the money better elsewhere?"

No, you chose to be a dick.

Did you say "well, I'd happily put some money towards it if it were going to a cause rather than a flag"?

No, you chose to [attempt to] undermine someone's intelligence because he disagreed with you. You were a dick.

Have you ever helped anybody by being a complete dick?

[Reg Smeeton]

Actually, a lot of "raising awareness" initiatives do make changes. There's very little research on the topic literally, but what is apparent is that human beings live by societal norms and that the more these things become "the norm" in the social groups people live in (i.e. football , as an example) the more people might begin to look into the issue and change their perspective, if necessary.

What I think you mean to describe (and does not apply to Jay at all, imo) is the culture of so-called 'slactivism'. Which you might equate to clicking "like" on a facebook petition and you'd consider completely pointless. Arguably, in some cases, yes it is.

But you know what's more pointless - what doesn't help anybody? Being a dick.

You could have said "Nice idea, but couldn't you spend the money better elsewhere?"

No, you chose to be a dick.

Did you say "well, I'd happily put some money towards it if it were going to a cause rather than a flag"?

No, you chose to [attempt to] undermine someone's intelligence because he disagreed with you. You were a dick.

Have you ever helped anybody by being a complete dick?

You're way off the mark here Ells....I have a long history of disagreement with Ironside but he's right on this.

[herthab]

You're way off the mark here Ells....I have a long history of disagreement with Ironside but he's right on this.

No he's not and neither are you.

[Matchworn Shirts]

the issue of refugees has nothing to do with football, and I think banners like this are pointless  - sorry if that is being blunt, but it's just an opinion.
If people want to help, better to donate things like clothes, toiletries, funds etc setup to help these people integrate in the country they end up in - language courses, job training and so forth.

[Nemo]

If you don't think this is a PR fight as much as anything else then I don't know what to say. Compare and contrast government policy last week and this and it's surely clear that pressure from the media and public has caused them to swivel on a dime. Do you think that would have happened if everyone in Britain had quietly given £10 to UNICEF and got on with their lives? I think charitable giving is incredibly important, but there is a time and place for raising awareness and this is a textbook example.

Well done Jay. The fact that people are talking about it is vindication enough.

[bigbobjoylove]

Now you have local councils apparently offering assistance, despite not having the facilities to look after the UK's existing amount of homeless people. There are just over 38,500 spaces in hostels for single homeless people in England a big reduction due to government cuts. Are the Syrians going to be given special treatment ahead of the existing British homeless?

[Pax Romana]

We need to take more refugees/migrants than we do currently, I think everyone on here is agreed on that.

Clearly I don't want any of them living anywhere near me causing congestion and lowering house prices but there are plenty of places in Britain I never visit and any of them would be fine.

[JanTheMan]

We need to take more refugees/migrants than we do currently, I think everyone on here is agreed on that.

Clearly I don't want any of them living anywhere near me causing congestion and lowering house prices but there are plenty of places in Britain I never visit and any of them would be fine.

Just like we need to build more houses. And that big shiny new airport. As long as they are nowhere near me.

95pc agree that we need to take our share of genuine refugees, me included. And from what we've seen on the news over the past few years a genuine refugee is pretty much anyone in Syria/Somalia etc who doesn't susbcribe to the IS / al shabab way of life. But clearly there are shit loads of people en route to Western Europe who are just economic migrants. With germany taking 800k this year  it certainly won't deter anyone in safe but less prosperous lands making the trip.

Whilst it would be wholly unfair to expect European border countries to accept all at the point of entry, you have to question why very few stay put once in a safe country.  Without more control at this point it could get very messy.

Picking up on a comment earlier, we are certainly not an over crowded country. Only omething like 6pc of the country is brownfield/previously developed.

[inept and tiresome]

Maybe politics and football should not be mixing?

This is probably the wisest thing ever written on this site. I'm dead against what jbx is doing and thus politicizing my football club.

[Panda Paws]

First lesson of any academic study of sport: Sport, politics, culture, society will be forever inextricably linked.

Tricky road to go down, a tiny minority visibly politicising a whole fan base, and because of that its not something I particularly agree with, irrelevant of my views on the subject.