Let's Get Political!

[dogs]

The class war (if there is actually any) Is already at the 1944 stage. Vast automation is only a stone throw away, especially in many large corporations. When this occurs, those lines will be blurred. The lower middle class will then realise their folly in their support for the abolition of the state safety net.

[Nomoreheroes]

And the third angel sounded. And a star fell from heaven. Burning as it were a lamp.And it fell upon the 3rd part of the waters.

[Reg Smeeton]

The class war (if there is actually any) Is already at the 1944 stage. Vast automation is only a stone throw away, especially in many large corporations. When this occurs, those lines will be blurred. The lower middle class will then realise their folly in their support for the abolition of the state safety net.

Earlier in the week erstwhile TEF'er and now junior minister JustinTomlinson, was answering questions in the Commons on the State safety net, particularly the benefit cap that 20K is all you can get 23K in London. Asked his solution to those struggling with this, he recommends they take in a lodger.... asked further what happens if say they've 3 kids, 2 in 1 bedroom 1 in another, then his suggestion stick three 3 in a room to make the space.... or move.

He further pointed out that... the so called bedroom tax, was to encourage those with spare capacity to downsize, so that it would free up properties for larger families..

Now unusually, I have a certain sympathy for the government view on this. I know several people usually woman, who for one reason or another have to take in lodgers, or in some cases social services youngsters, to make ends meet, or downsize when the kids have flown the nest. They all still work. Socialism must always provide a safety net, but at what point does it take the piss out of the ordinary worker?

[Legends-Lounge]

Earlier in the week erstwhile TEF'er and now junior minister JustinTomlinson, was answering questions in the Commons on the State safety net, particularly the benefit cap that 20K is all you can get 23K in London. Asked his solution to those struggling with this, he recommends they take in a lodger.... asked further what happens if say they've 3 kids, 2 in 1 bedroom 1 in another, then his suggestion stick three 3 in a room to make the space.... or move.

He further pointed out that... the so called bedroom tax, was to encourage those with spare capacity to downsize, so that it would free up properties for larger families..

Now unusually, I have a certain sympathy for the government view on this. I know several people usually woman, who for one reason or another have to take in lodgers, or in some cases social services youngsters, to make ends meet, or downsize when the kids have flown the nest. They all still work. Socialism must always provide a safety net, but at what point does it take the piss out of the ordinary worker?

When the state ie the working class that provide that money via hard work and taxation determine that the piss has been taken by their fellow working class claimants for too long. An arguement could be made that both red and blue have created that empasse over the years for differing political advantage. All well and good when the money is there to pay for it. Even when it appears that it is there it’s usually borrowed and has to be paid back eventually. No such thing as a free lunch is there?

[horlock07]

When the state ie the working class that provide that money via hard work and taxation determine that the piss has been taken by their fellow working class claimants for too long. An arguement could be made that both red and blue have created that empasse over the years for differing political advantage. All well and good when the money is there to pay for it. Even when it appears that it is there it’s usually borrowed and has to be paid back eventually. No such thing as a free lunch is there?

Possibly so, although going forward deliberately fucking your own economy which will further diminish the tax revenue is only going to make things worse really. Also not been helped by it being friven by ideology for the last 8 years as concluded by the United Nations.

[Pax Romana]

Possibly so, although going forward deliberately fucking your own economy which will further diminish the tax revenue is only going to make things worse really. Also not been helped by it being friven by ideology for the last 8 years as concluded by the United Nations.

Your point is a valid one in its own right (possibly apart from the word "deliberately"). 

Don't undermine it by citing anything that the UN says.

 

[Reg Smeeton]

Possibly so, although going forward deliberately fucking your own economy which will further diminish the tax revenue is only going to make things worse really. Also not been helped by it being friven by ideology for the last 8 years as concluded by the United Nations.

It's an irony that the benefits dependancy culture really got wheels in the Thatcher years.

2 factors drove it, firstly the decimation of the old industrial  base, left whole communities with few employment prospects, those that didn't follow Norman Tebbit's advice and "get on their bike" were cushioned by the use of North Sea tax revenues, to a life of benefit dependency.

Secondly, whereas in the post war period, up until the mid 70's.... money in the budget for social housing went towards constructing new homes... very little to pay rent other than for those who because of disability etc were unable to work.

With the Thatcherite sale of council properties, and local government rate capping.... the budget stopped being invested in new build, and increasingly went towards housing benefit, which often went straight to private landklords.

The 2 factors combined helped produce a generation of people for whom benefit dependancy is the norm

[Audrey]

I wonder what news has been buried or just not seen the light of day because of Brexit dominating every day.

[horlock07]

I wonder what news has been buried or just not seen the light of day because of Brexit dominating every day.

Thats a very cynical attitude....

In other news, a rather damning review of the 'deal'....

TL-DR they have us over a barrel mainly due to the actions of our government.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain

[chalkies_shorts]

Thats a very cynical attitude....

In other news, a rather damning review of the 'deal'....

TL-DR they have us over a barrel mainly due to the actions of our government.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain

So we go back to the original question asked of the electorate - out or in. Its one or the other. Trying to please everyone has failed spectacularly. As I said before I'd rather remain than be tied to this deal. I'd rather go over the cliff edge though I'd rather we started it over 2 years ago.

[Ardiles]

If we do go over the edge (the No Deal option), it raises the very real prospect that we are forced to go back to the EU in the coming months effectively begging to be let back in.  It would be a humiliation that would dwarf even the Suez Crisis.  The EU would set the terms on our re-entry, and we would be bound more tightly than ever before.

Not saying that this would happen for certain (because no-one can see the future) but it would be, in my view, a very real possibility.  Leave enthusiasts advocating the No Deal option as a route out of this should think very carefully.

[horlock07]

If we do go over the edge (the No Deal option), it raises the very real prospect that we are forced to go back to the EU in the coming months effectively begging to be let back in.  It would be a humiliation that would dwarf even the Suez Crisis.  The EU would set the terms on our re-entry, and we would be bound more tightly than ever before.

We would have to be in the Euro and Schengen for a start...

The alternative, and one which I expect they would follow rather than slinking back with the tail between their legs to the EU, is to jump into bed with the USA accepting anything they will offer us so its chlorine chicken etc all the way.

[Outletred]

If we do go over the edge (the No Deal option), it raises the very real prospect that we are forced to go back to the EU in the coming months effectively begging to be let back in.  It would be a humiliation that would dwarf even the Suez Crisis.  The EU would set the terms on our re-entry, and we would be bound more tightly than ever before.

Not saying that this would happen for certain (because no-one can see the future) but it would be, in my view, a very real possibility.  Leave enthusiasts advocating the No Deal option as a route out of this should think very carefully.

There is absolutely nothing to fear from a no deal.

We already trade with the majority of the world on WTO rules anyway. And as for hold ups at customs that’s a total myth.

I know someone who has worked at Southampton for many years and goods coming in on WTO experience delays of seconds on the wuay

[Outletred]

There is absolutely nothing to fear from a no deal.

We already trade with the majority of the world on WTO rules anyway. And as for hold ups at customs that’s a total myth.

I know someone who has worked at Southampton for many years and goods coming in on WTO experience delays of seconds on the quay. All this talk of blockades is coming from the same people whom predicted Armageddon if we didn’t join the Euro.

The EU is a busted flush. 90% of future GDP growth is forecast to happen outside it and this is where the opportunities lie.

The single market is just a racket that benefits German manufacturing and inefficient French producers. The tariffs placed on in many cases better goods that come from outside are eye watering- for example food, clothing and footwear would become cheaper once we are outside as we can choose to drop these tariffs. This will benefit the poorest in Society the most.

I work regularly in Spain and Italy with my job and I have seen the damage the Euro has done to these Southern European economies- and it ain’t pretty

[Legends-Lounge]

Possibly so, although going forward deliberately fucking your own economy which will further diminish the tax revenue is only going to make things worse really. Also not been helped by it being friven by ideology for the last 8 years as concluded by the United Nations.

Don’t give me that ideology shit, making out only the conservatives use ‘their’ ideology as an excuse or weapon upon, for or against the country. I’m not sure where the deliberately fucking your country comes from. I’ll make and educated guess based on the stuff you post ad nauseam that you are referring to the tightening of the countries fiscal belt over the tenure of the coalition (less so) and sole conservative government.