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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 909515 times)
pauld

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« Reply #9750 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 01:05:11 »

He wouldn’t last ten minutes under Di Canio.
Think Di Canio would find much he admired in Johnson. That's not a compliment to either of them.
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Valid Pint

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« Reply #9751 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 07:32:27 »

David Renard, leader of SBC, re-elected for a further year.
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horlock07

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« Reply #9752 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:28:35 »

Its been an interesting morning...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-grooming-gangs-video-nadine-dorries-tories-far-right-a9514001.html

The score so far is one entirely deleted Twitter account (Maria Caulfield) whilst Nadine Dorries and Lucy Allan have deleted their tweets.

One wonders why they are suddenly taking such an interest in this topic when one considers what has been going on in their own party. https://twitter.com/bloggerheads/status/1260875458478051329?s=20

Background at https://twitter.com/bloggerheads/status/1198965612065820674

« Last Edit: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:43:18 by horlock07 » Logged
pauld

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« Reply #9753 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:51:09 »

Its been an interesting morning...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-grooming-gangs-video-nadine-dorries-tories-far-right-a9514001.html

The score so far is one entirely deleted Twitter account (Maria Caulfield) whilst Nadine Dorries and Lucy Allan have deleted their tweets.

One wonders why they are suddenly taking such an interest in this topic when one considers what has been going on in their own party. https://twitter.com/bloggerheads/status/1260875458478051329?s=20

Background at https://twitter.com/bloggerheads/status/1198965612065820674


One might have thought that as a Health Minister in the middle of a public health crisis, Nadine Dorries might have better things to do than browse far right social media accounts looking for smear videos on politicial opponents she can recirculate. Apparently not.
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Thingie

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« Reply #9754 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:54:11 »

Nadine Dorries is think as mince. the true manifestation as what's wrong in politics
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michael
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« Reply #9755 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:54:35 »

I'm scratching my head here trying to remember who it was that said money spent on child abuse investigations was "spaffed up a wall"
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horlock07

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« Reply #9756 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 14:07:27 »

One might have thought that as a Health Minister in the middle of a public health crisis, Nadine Dorries might have better things to do than browse far right social media accounts looking for smear videos on politicial opponents she can recirculate. Apparently not.

She appears to be way too busy to make an apology, as do her colleagues.
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Flashheart

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« Reply #9757 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 14:21:57 »

I'm surprised Laura Kuntinberg didn't tweet it as well.
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horlock07

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« Reply #9758 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 14:58:35 »

I'm surprised Laura Kuntinberg didn't tweet it as well.

TBF the BBC are reporting it, albeit it got shunted off the front page very quickly?

Strange though, the headline says she is only accused, whilst the story confirms that she actually did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52653609
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Ardiles

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« Reply #9759 on: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 16:31:44 »

Good to see that all 3 MPs have been censured Conservative head office.  But the lack of a direct apology from any of them also indicates a lack of class.  It really wouldn't take too much to hold your hand up and say 'Sorry, I got this wrong.  Keir Starmer was saying nothing of the kind.'
« Last Edit: Thursday, May 14, 2020, 16:33:54 by Ardiles » Logged
pauld

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« Reply #9760 on: Friday, May 15, 2020, 13:45:19 »

Remember how we weren't going to let the US bend us over a table to get a trade deal and it definitely wouldn't lead to a lowering of food standards?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52653607

Next step - selling off the NHS
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horlock07

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« Reply #9761 on: Friday, May 15, 2020, 13:53:02 »

Remember how we weren't going to let the US bend us over a table to get a trade deal and it definitely wouldn't lead to a lowering of food standards?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52653607

Next step - selling off the NHS

Yep, taking back control. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52528821

'Washington has also indicated that it wants to be able to veto the UK's ability to strike deals with "non-market economies", amid growing US tensions with China.'
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pauld

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« Reply #9762 on: Friday, May 15, 2020, 13:57:47 »

Yep, taking back control. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52528821

'Washington has also indicated that it wants to be able to veto the UK's ability to strike deals with "non-market economies", amid growing US tensions with China.'
"All about sovereignty". We are Trump's bitch. Well done Farage, Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg you lying shysters.
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RobertT

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« Reply #9763 on: Friday, May 15, 2020, 14:36:18 »

I can confirm that the quality of chicken over here, by and large, is awful.
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horlock07

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« Reply #9764 on: Friday, May 15, 2020, 15:43:58 »

From Ian Dunt this afternoon;

'We'd held out pretty well. The absence of culture war has been one of the few reliefs of the covid period. For once, we all wanted the same thing. The applause on Thursdays was moving partly because it offered a sense of unity. Everyone was anti-covid. Everyone admired the NHS workers who braved it.

But this week the culture war started moving back in. And that's hardly surprising, because it was the first week that the government had to make policy proposals and then sell those proposals to the public, rather than just respond to a fast-moving situation.

Unfortunately, the only way this government - which is, after all, just the Vote Leave campaign in executive form - knows how to do that is through values-based engagement with demographic segments. It's Facebook advertising as a national communications strategy.

The core phrasing was 'common sense'. This was delivered with depressing regularity in the Commons on Monday. "Good, solid, British common sense," Johnson said, over and over again, as his response to seemingly every question.

The phrase was repeated by government spokespeople wherever possible. Faced with the former chief scientific adviser to the government on Newsnight saying the end of the lockdown was coming too early, Tory MP Damian Green replied: "I have greater faith in the common sense of the British people than Sir David King does".

Common sense as a phrase is really quite entirely meaningless. Sense isn't common. In politics, different interests have to be managed - for instance those of an employer who owns a factory and the employees who work in it. Nor is intuition, which common sense often implies, a particularly reliable guide to anything. Many things in life - from physics, to biology, to national finances, to monetary policy - are profoundly counter-intuitive, because they are complex and operate at a level beyond our normal day-to-day experience.

But even if common sense did have meaning - if it translated as the autonomous reason of the individual, say - it would not describe the package of rules the government has put forward. In fact, "good, solid, British common sense" doesn't get a look in. The rules are extremely odd.

They allow a meeting with one member of a household but not two at the same time, even though these are unified bubbles in disease control strategy. They prioritise economic relationships with estate agents and cleaners over those with a loved one. You can make a case for this if you like. But it's based on economic demand, not human intuition.

No.10 could arguably have approached this another way. They could have said to the public that you can meet who you like, where you like, as long as you are two metres away at all times and outside. That might have been smart or stupid - who knows - but it would have corresponded to the messaging strategy, which stresses people's individual responsibility in making those judgements. The new rules do the precise opposite. They work on minute details and pass verdicts on them, often in quite baffling ways.

So if it isn't a reflection of the underlying strategy, what is it? That's simple. It is a communication strategy divorced from its content, almost certainly derived from extensive public research, of the type which typifies the Vote Leave government under Dominic Cummings.

No.10 has polled nearly every aspect of public opinion during covid, on a nearly daily basis, with messaging subject to focus group assessments. "The internal polling is pretty extensive every day," an official told Politico. "We get an overnight breakdown of surveys of 2,000 adults. We get stats on how worried people are, people's perceptions of risk, whether they feel they're being served by government information, whether we've got the balance right between the economy and healthcare, polling on people's finances, thoughts on the NHS, about social distancing, businesses, workplace, face masks."
Common sense has a specific set of cultural attributes attached to it. People like to think they have it and they hate being told that they do not. It implies very strongly that the right solution is easy, not complex. It maps almost directly onto the demographic groups the government weaponised so effectively over the Brexit debate. It is a shorthand for rejection of expertise, for an insistence that instinct and unearned confidence trump research and understanding.

That fundamentally populist appeal took centre stage in the government response this week. And it was telling that once it did, all the old ways of doing things under the Brexit debate quickly reasserted itself.

First of all came the basic incompetence - a prime ministerial statement on Sunday night telling people to go back to work, followed by an insistence the next day that it was only supposed to apply on Wednesday. Then came the outright lying, with Johnson insisting that Keir Starmer's description of the government health advice to care homes "wasn't true" despite the fact that it demonstrably was. Then the bullying tone-deaf stubbornness, with a refusal to acknowledge the lie, even when it was shown in black and white, and the insistence that the opposition should not criticise the government because "the public expect us to work together".

It's the same old ugly habits coming back once again. They don't know any other way of doing things. And as the stakes become higher they are likely to double-down on it, instinctively looking for the opportunity to sell their programme on the basis of cultural dividing lines. Right now, those who question them simply lack common sense. Soon, they will be actively working against the country by trying to kill off the economy, or needlessly scaring people.

The way to counter it is to ensure the debate stays within the realm of reason and evidence. We saw what happened when it didn't during Brexit. We can't let it happen here.'

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