Messi at international level-
2016 lost Copa America final on pens
2015 lost Copa America final on pens
2014 lost World Cup final extra time goal
2011 lost Copa America 1/4 final on pens
2010 lost World Cup 1/4 final
2007 lost Copa America final
2006 lost World Cup 1/4 final on pens
Yes winning is important and ultimately is what counts but its hard to judge a player/team failure on penalty shootout success. A penalty kick from one of his team mates is what separates him and Ronaldo on international trophies
Similarly England may not have had success in 50+ years but its only been a penalty failure that has stopped us on so many occasions. (or a Ronaldinho fluke/ sol campbell disallowed goal, petulant red cards) Excuses? yes. but you do need some luck and we are overdue some
Not sure if it will be England but i think an outsider could get the job done this year.
I don't discredit anything you are saying there. Yes England have been for want of a better word 'butthurt' for such a long time now. We may be bias, and it seems like we have had decisions or other factors go against us. So much so, it's been the norm. Let's take a wincing look;
1970 - A massive ploy to usettle the World Champions as the England Captain Bobby Moore is arrested for robbing jewels! That definitely didn't help preparations. Later on Banks got food poisoning before a repeat of the Final vs Die Mannschaft. As champions of anything, you're always going to be up against it and scrutinised. Banks still was a cut above, the World was introduced to Pele. A surprising Q-F finish amongst all the drama.
1974 - Disaster. We fail to qualify. The World understands Johan Cruyff is the real deal. West Germany beat Holland in the final, with an inspired performance by Vogts. I believe this is where the main Deutsche/Dutch rivalry grew much stronger. England make the final...via ref Jack Taylor. No excuses.
1978 - Failed to qualify again. The 70s was a write off in English National team terms. Was this not one of the craziest World Cups though? The head of the World Cup committee assassinated, the brilliance of Cruyff denied as he refused to take part. All this before a ball was kicked. No doubt the Argentinians were great and the Dutch, without Cruyff were equally as good. They however were becoming the nearly men on the world stage. Again, no excuses England.
1982 - A rather lacklustre return to the world stage after a 12 year hiatus (did we really party too much after winning it in 66?), but a return nonetheless. A fantastic Brazil side, some match fixing controversy with W.G and Austria, and an Italian side that showed some true defensive class. Stale for England, nothing in the way of drama, just happy to be back.
1986 - England are back! With a squad that seems capable of winning the damn thing after 20 years of nothing at all. We all know how this should've been. The cheating little Argentinian prick. We can debate about VAR, we can debate if he would've scored his second (which was awesome) had the first stood but this was to be the start of our so called "run of drama". A World Cup we likely deserved to go on and win but for the "Hand of God". Drama.
1990 - Another strong World Cup performance. Blood, bandages galore, piss ups, fights, tears. Yes this was a World Cup the Sun and the rest of the "red tops" just couldn't get enough of. Gazza gets pissed, we win. Gazza gets a 2nd yellow, cries out all the alcohol, sobers up. We go out. Lose to Germany on penalties. We're becoming like the Dutch, except instead of weed, we're just wankered on cheap lager the whole time. Absolute drama.
1994 - Failed to qualify. Still literally hungover by the German defeat. Diana Ross announces her immense power and footballing ability in probably a World Cup opening ceremony that was more memorable than the World Cup itself. Nods to Andy "I'm Irish Honest" Townsend and Jack Charlton's ever existing last strands of combover! No excuses England.
1998 - A revived England, who become the nearly men again as the hosts of Euro 96 (penalties again). A growing team with exceptional qualities, a strong midfield. The world only gets a glimpse of the sublime Michael Owen. Full of drama, Beckham's red, faith healing and Gazza's omission. Drama indeed. Lose on penalties at a tournament for the third time in a row. Only this time it's in the 2nd Round. A team worthy of going far. A pattern emerges.
2002 - Besieged with injuries beforehand but still a squad looking like it could go all the way in distinctly average world cup. We only just qualified thanks to a late Beckham goal. Him at his best. Again drama came though in the Q-F, an average Brazil who were great going forward (better than currently) but terrible when attacked. England did attack but Rivaldo played jester and got away with it. Ronaldinho scores a fluke as Seaman gets a flashback of Nayim in the European Cup. Another chance gone begging. We were better than that but history will say; England Q-F.
2006 - Another team capable of doing something special. It clicked less this time but it still had it's drama. The Portuguese Winker causing problems and Rooney sent off. Out on penalties - Again. Definite drama, beginning to think these boys are cursed.
2010 - Ahh the Vuvuzela Cup, and end of an era for several of these nearly players. Quite befitting that the drama here surrounding more injuries and Frank Lampard's "goal that never stood". How it could have been quite so different. I was at Glastonbury that year and appeared on Sky Sports "around the grounds" feature at FT. The live pieces they do but during the World Cup they go to places like "The Dog & Duck, High Wycombe, Trafalgar Square, and Glasto". A disappointing World Cup but we were seemingly afraid to win.
2014 - Probably the worst showing at a World Cup. Yes the golden bunch were starting to look tired/disinterested. Question marks over Wayne Rooney's commitment. It wasn't all bad, there were signs of youngsters coming through but it was a World Cup too early. No real drama we were just shit. We're they as good as we thought? or did they massively underachieve? Something has to change but it didn't and whatever dank smell filled the air in Brazil was left hanging in 2016.
So a good chunk of drama but probably not as much as we like to think. A good chunk of just not being good enough or too complacent. It begs the question, if VAR had been available/in use since 1966, do you think we may have won a some more World Cups?
Sorry, I've fucking rambled. Back to Messi. I guess history will say he has yet to win a trophy at International level. It is harsh but in 20 years, he will just be considered as a nearly man. Shameful but true.