Trump v Harris

[donkey]

Almost as mad as us voting in Johnson

Indeed. But in the UK's defence, Johnson got less than half the vote, unlike Trump.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

We also don't vote for the prime minister as such. His name wasn't on any ballots. You vote for your local MP and then the winning party appoints their leader the PM.

Splitting hairs a little bit maybe.

[Posh Red]

We also don't vote for the prime minister as such. His name wasn't on any ballots. You vote for your local MP and then the winning party appoints their leader the PM.

Splitting hairs a little bit maybe.

Definitely splitting hairs, very few people vote specifically for an MP, in fact most don’t even vote for a PM, the majority just vote for a party.

[RobertT]

The USA system is very different though - to avoid having a King, the President has limited powers, and passing laws is pretty hard without control of all three of the Presidency, Senate and Congress.

It wasn't a surprise that Trump won.  I think I mentioned months ago that Harris was not a great pick.  The problem the Democrats had was allowing Biden to run for so long instead of getting him to bring forth a new generation.  He did his initial job then got stuck in Power I guess.  Even with the right candidate it would have been tough given the Economic headwinds - namely inflation.

On Trump, he succeeds by enabling the people who would usually mutter their shit under their breath the opportunity to say stuff out loud and there are enough of them willing to vote that it makes a difference.  Long term, I don't think that path sustains well, but until the passage of time gradually changes the electorate, the battle is getting people to cast a vote.  Fear and anger are motivating forces.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

Listening to a lot of Americans, Harris was somewhat of a joke. She basically can't speak for longer than a couple of minutes reciting the same rhetoric about growing up middle class over and over just speaking in sound bytes.

The democrats seem hell bent on putting the most unlikable candidates they can against Trump. It says a lot that the one that actually managed to win was completely fucking senile. They've done this to themselves.

Equally on the other side if it was a more moderate republican instead of Trump they'd have probably mascaraed Harris on the vote worse than it was.

[Nemo]

Eh, Harris' approval ratings were loads better than Trumps (and Walz's better than Vance's). I don't think she was a great candidate, but she wasn't uniquely bad - Biden would absolutely have done worse. Party's perceived record and priorities was a much bigger problem.

Agree that a Republican who wasn't Trump would have won by plenty though. Interesting that turnout seems to have dropped so much, Trump looks likely to get less votes than he did in 2016 and 2020 in winning comfortably. Probably speaks to general dissatisfaction.

[Bob's Orange]

I've seen this posted a few times (mainly by Republicans) but the 2020 election numbers seem to be way higher than what they generally are. 81.2 million to Biden and 74.2 million for Trump.

2024 was 72.6 million and 68 million
2016 was 63 million and 65 million
2012 was 65 million and 61 million

Was 2020 because of Covid and the mail in ballots or something? I know its being posted as the Republicans think the numbers are hooky with all the dead people and illegal aliens voting etc but is there a viable explanation for the numbers?

[Nemo]

Decent table of that here (although not including 2024 yet as it's not finished counting) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections

2020 definitely is higher, but we're talking about going from ~60% of the eligible voters turning out to ~65%, so it's not obviously suspicious. I could certainly believe that people might care a bit more about politics than average coming out of Covid, where politics had clearly had a huge effect on the lives of everyone, even those who wouldn't normally care. Vote by mail access was definitely expanded hugely relative to previous elections (and I think in some states has shrunk again this year).

The other flaw with the conspiracy theory side of that (rather than just finding it interesting and wondering why) is... if the Democrats did somehow fix the 2020 election, when they weren't in power, why on earth would they *not* do it this time round when they are?

[RobertT]

Yes - the 2020 election had massive changes in voting methods, opening up voting to people who would otherwise not make the effort, or be able, to vote in person.  It was also at the inflection point of Covid being so obviously mismanaged in the USA (for many peoples perception) and the material impact that was having on lives.  Inflation this time around was the key driver, I have no doubt.

[RobertT]

And if anyone wonders why someone would vote for an idiot like Trump just because of inflation - I pay about $6 for a loaf of sliced white bread (riddle with preservatives for extra fun).  I can well imagine people voting with their wallets.

[Batch]

And if anyone wonders why someone would vote for an idiot like Trump just because of inflation - I pay about $6 for a loaf of sliced white bread (riddle with preservatives for extra fun).  I can well imagine people voting with their wallets.

$6? Haven't you got a local Walmart?

[RobertT]

$6? Haven't you got a local Walmart?

About $5

[Honkytonk]

Be interesting to understand how much of that is actual economic inflation and the rest is corporate driven inflation (i.e. big business never lowering their prices despite a fluctuating cost of production), because the corporate driven side of it is only going to get worse.

EDIT: 8% inflation in 2022?! What is this, Trussonomics? No worse than UK inflation that year. 1.2% in 2020, otherwise hovering around 4. It's higher marginally than UK inflation as a comparator, but it's not widely out of step with it, probably as a result of the same global pressures affecting the world economy post-Covid.

Please see shrinkflation ( do they dare do that in the US?) and adulteration of products with cheaper ingredients (filling cadburys with veg fat i.e.), which having seen ingredients lists on American products is a tried and true story over in Yankee Doodle dandy land.

[Legends-Lounge]

Be interesting to understand how much of that is actual economic inflation and the rest is corporate driven inflation (i.e. big business never lowering their prices despite a fluctuating cost of production), because the corporate driven side of it is only going to get worse.

EDIT: 8% inflation in 2022?! What is this, Trussonomics? No worse than UK inflation that year. 1.2% in 2020, otherwise hovering around 4. It's higher marginally than UK inflation as a comparator, but it's not widely out of step with it, probably as a result of the same global pressures affecting the world economy post-Covid.

Please see shrinkflation ( do they dare do that in the US?) and adulteration of products with cheaper ingredients (filling cadburys with veg fat i.e.), which having seen ingredients lists on American products is a tried and true story over in Yankee Doodle dandy land.

Cadburys owners were always going to dumb down the ingredients to max out margins and recoup their outlay ASAP. That’s why I don’t buy any ‘Mondolez’  products if I can buy something else.

[RobertT]

It wasn't any worse than any other large Country, but heaven help the person in charge if petrol prices go up noticeably.  When most of your car stock runs at <30mpg they really do not like it.  Don't forget, trucking is massive over here with a rail network that stopped improving at Blazing Saddles.  Generally speaking the cost of living it pretty high already, so you'd do well to win an election as the incumbent in a two party system.  The result was heading for Labour type vibes at one point.  Harris at least made it a choice.