Pre-season matches 22-23

[DiV]

Isn't the "playing tired/beasted in pre-season" thing just a more modern, considered version of the Macari/PDC era long runs that people broadly liked? Worth remembering we started the season very slowly under PDC.

Far from an expert on the subject but surely there is a massive difference in training hard so you have increased fitness levels for match day and going into a match day deliberately fatigued so you’re playing tired.

Like if I was training for a half marathon I’d train up to and maybe beyond that distance but I wouldn’t run 15 miles the day before it to run fatigued the following day.

Surely they should be training fatigued & playing fresh

[Jimmy HaveHave]

I thought the science behind conditioning the body was train hard, recovery time before you go again 

[STFC_Manc]

It was but not after the Woking game when we won and it was hotter.

I agree but I thought you said it hasn't been mentioned before, which it had.

[Jimmy HaveHave]

I agree but I thought you said it hasn't been mentioned before, which it had.

Fair point but the supermarine game was early in pre-season so maybe more of a valid excuse.

[STFC_Manc]

Far from an expert on the subject but surely there is a massive difference in training hard so you have increased fitness levels for match day and going into a match day deliberately fatigued so you’re playing tired.

Like if I was training for a half marathon I’d train up to and maybe beyond that distance but I wouldn’t run 15 miles the day before it to run fatigued the following day.

Surely they should be training fatigued & playing fresh

When you are training for a half marathon as you said before the event you would ease down the last week. Isn't the point that the 'event' is the first game of the season, rather than a pre season friendly.

As long as he doesn't work them to hard then it's done correctly?

[Batch]

Far from an expert on the subject but surely there is a massive difference in training hard so you have increased fitness levels for match day and going into a match day deliberately fatigued so you’re playing tired.

Like if I was training for a half marathon I’d train up to and maybe beyond that distance but I wouldn’t run 15 miles the day before it to run fatigued the following day.

Surely they should be training fatigued & playing fresh

You usually taper down in the week before,  I'm sure we'll be doing the football equivalent.

Quite interesting though, because you tend not to do a half marathon once a week, sometimes twice. So we can see they are different ..

Anyway 8k (!) aside can we agree that
  - we'll be sufficiently rested come Saturday
  - the issues in the first half yesterday were partly that Cardiff are good, but very much we were not at the required level/intensity/whatever. Fatigue seems a weird thing to focus on given the same players upped it for 25 minutes in the second half

[Peter Venkman]

So much is being made out of the fitness side of things, this season fitness becomes less relevant as we can use 5 subs in 90 mins rather than the 3 so thats giving every team the chance to replace any of the more unfit players so even if they (Williams and Gladwin etc) cannot last more than 70 mins it matters less, but what does matter is quality squad depth.

This season I think you will find more and more goals scored from 70 mins onwards as the influx of fresh legs in a team helps.

If you have 3 flair players who cannot complete 90 mins then play the more solid grafters for 70 mins and then bring the flair players on vs possibly tired defenders leaving you 2 more subs for the more unfit players.

Subs and squad depth is more important than ever before and that will mean probably different tactics employed after subs so a plan B and plan C are also vital.

[Batch]

And back to preseason performances itself.

Suprised we haven't tried a back 4 (that I've seen) simply because we do look exposed down the wings at times - and surely some games you need to stop that.

Other than that, still not a Scooby how well set we are. The first couple of months are going to be needed to work that out.

Preseason and early season are no real indicators

[Kinky Tom]

Regarding the extra 8km, SL did say in that interview a couple of pages back that it was high speed so that makes it sound a lot, if it were jogging then an extra 1.5/2 km's a day isn't much but if that's at full tilt then it definitely is.

[Peter Venkman]

And back to preseason performances itself.

Suprised we haven't tried a back 4 (that I've seen) simply because we do look exposed down the wings at times - and surely some games you need to stop that.

Other than that, still not a Scooby how well set we are. The first couple of months are going to be needed to work that out.

Preseason and early season are no real indicators

Didn't we finish for the last 8 or so mins with 4 at the back yesterday?

I personally dont like 3 at the back but that seems the way Lindsey prefers it so thats what it will be, we don't pick the team and I expect we all have different thoughts on formations and line ups.

As for people moaning about fans debating things....

Thats what forums are about, opinions, we all have them and a forum is the best place to put each persons thoughts, no need to berate people for having them, not every body will agree on anything but don't instantly dismiss someones opinion if it differs from your own.

Nobody is suggesting that they know more than anyone empoyed by the club what people are suggesting is an alternative to what is happening currently.

[Batch]

Regarding the extra 8km, SL did say in that interview a couple of pages back that it was high speed so that makes it sound a lot, if it were jogging then an extra 1.5/2 km's a day isn't much but if that's at full tilt then it definitely is.

Yeah, agreed. I did make the point about intensity earlier. No way would an 8k jog be significant

Ok it's a reasonable total distance. I guess I don't know the intensity. 5 miles of sprint is a lot different from a fast jog

"But we’ve come into the game really fatigued. The players covered around 36 kilometres (22 miles) this week, which is probably around 8km (five miles) more than they would do normally in a clear week."

[Jimmy HaveHave]

I'm surprised fatigue wasn't mentioned last summer when we had a short pre-season and would have been playing catch up and never stopped us having a good start to the season.

[Kinky Tom]

Yeah, agreed. I did make the point about intensity earlier. No way would an 8k jog be significant

Oops, must have missed that, sorry matey.

[Pericardinho]

I don't mind 3 at the back. It has its uses and at times it was very effective for us last season.

But we can't die by it. We need to be able to switch it up and I fear we don't have the players for 433.

All our wingbacks can't defend and if any of them played in a 4 I'd worry. We don't have a Hunt or Odimayo to slot in and tighten it up. I have heard Clayton has played left back sometimes though.

I actually think if we'd have matched Port Vale and went 352 in the away leg, swapping the anonymous Barry for O'brien, we'd of had more control of the game and gone through.

[theakston2k]

I don't mind 3 at the back. It has its uses and at times it was very effective for us last season.

When exactly was it very effective for us last season? We played it a lot but I wouldn’t ever say it was effective as our defence was a shambles for the majority and as a back 3 no one ever seemed to know their role defensively. We were at our best with a back 4 with Baudry in it.