Leyton Orient v Swindon pre match chat and matchday thread

[WEBBERhyde]

Absolutely not going full knee jerk here, but viewing that loss in the context of a very good season so far.

But fucking hell, what the hell do our coaching staff and players do in the week when it’s time to train for defending crosses?! Is it even in our syllabus?

Going off that match, I don’t see too much need to suddenly change our style or philosophy…that 65 minutes, we were largely on top on balance, except for 3 crosses into the box that they put away. Have to say their first, fair play, very good ball in and finish, but the other two, whilst decent balls in, we’ve made no concerted effort to close the ball down on the wing or fling ourselves at it as the ball comes into the box. Both times it looks like two of Conroy/Critch/odimayo just watch it fly close past them expecting someone else to deal with it with no regard for the in-form strikers attacking it.

Take those out of it, we’re in control until we have to start chasing the game and our passing goes to complete shit (more credence to Garner’s philosophy of keeping the ball and working opportunities than just try and bung balls forward all the time, we were fucking useless when it came to that).

I’ve said previously that going off percentages in league two you can afford some sloppy defending at times as it won’t always be capitalised on in this league..but when you’re facing two strikers in form and a side that has been scoring freely, you’ve got to acknowledge that and do something to stop those players coming onto the ball in the box.

Hopefully garner learns from tonight and gets on the case. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the goals conceded over the season have come from crosses, Walsalls certainly was.

The orient comms were very complimentary about us, even after going behind, so it’s clear we’re not doing a whole lot wrong. Just some things we need to brush up on.

[JoeMezz]

Didn’t see that coming at all at half time. Thought we played well first half and they took their goal very well. 2nd half started so poorly and were never at the races. 2 good crosses into the box but nobody seemed to follow runners and that was game over. 4th was a foul on Payne and Conroy looked so slow. Wouldn’t be knee jerk at all, but side will get unstuck against teams with physicality (and streetsmarts) until we sign a physical centre back and a striker who can hold it up

[Pax Romana]

First away game so feeling a bit of a Jonah.

Orient clearly deserved to win but the scoreline flattered them.  Was it 4 goals from 5 on target shots?  We shaded the first half and if we had taken one of our chances early in second half it might have been very different.  A few people were talking about the 'Man City effect' on the tube back but I don't really buy that. 

Orient are a pretty good team and bang on form. Just one of those things.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

It’s about time the defenders realised they are defenders first and not supplementary midfielders. The problem with a manager like Garner is he is 100% wedded to one way of playing and that’s that - it’ll always be more of the same. He’s never going to bring in an old fashioned lump of a CB or striker - they don’t fit his profile.

We’ve been lucky in previous games where we could have had conceded 4 - most sides don’t have strikers capable of putting away many of the chances they create against us.

Even after that Garner reckoned it was a good performance. It’s that obduracy and not willing to recognise the problem let alone tweak his system to rectify it which is going to see us fall short this season.

More of the same, just better, isn’t going to cut it.

[RobertT]

I think it will cut it, this season.  I imagine being in the hunt is above expectations and the quality of player we managed to get is a bit above average for this league, but this season was a free hit for Garner which does play into his hands a little.  Gives him a zero pressure season to ignore the game to game results business and focus on building and developing.  Going to be frustrating at times, but we are just going to try and perfect it, maybe adding a little more quality along the way.  I can well see him getting us up this season or next, my worry for him is beyond that.  We don't really have the budget to buy in that extra quality for League One very often and will fans give him several seasons of more matches like tonight than FGR to build at that level?   I doubt it.  A worry for next season, or the one after that though.  Despite my criticism, I am generally enjoying this season, especially given where it could have gone.

[dalumpimunki]

The problem with a manager like Garner is he is 100% wedded to one way of playing and that’s that - it’ll always be more of the same.

I'm not sure that's a problem. Our most successful managers were wedded to a particular style of play, and it didn't do them much harm.

Macari played the same way, ball winning CMs, fast, attacking wingers, through three divisions. Ossie played a MF diamond, Hoddle played with a Libero and wing backs. Always. Even diCanio had a clear idea of what his team should look and play like.

Garner has been much more flexible in the formations he's played than any of them. This season we've played: 532/352; 3421; 442 and maybe more.

The issue is the ability to recruit and coach a team capable of delivering that model of play. And our management team have had real challenges to face in both of those areas, as we all know.

In general, for a team put together under those restrictions, that have been coached in this style of play for a couple of months, they're doing pretty well.

Every one of our most successful managers had nights like last night when the philosophy seemed to fail completely. Fortunately they didn't just junk their ideas and go back to the drawing board.

[OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR]

Never mind tactics or style, I'm sorry to say Orient wanted it more than us from the very off in that second half.

They were a very good side at this level, mind.

To take that point and follow on from it... and this is a genuine question. Has the phrase "get stuck into them lads" been erased from the lexicon of modern coaching terms? I can't imagine Garner's used it in his entire life. We just seem to be lacking a bit of heart, passion... call it what you will. Case in point... Tyreece - he's a big old lump, built for rugby and his big strength is his errrr... strength. But he's not using it.. he should be getting in amongst opposition defenders and bullying them and making their lives a misery (without giving away a load of free kicks of course)... it's not happening though. Where's the shithousery coming from since The General went into semi retirement? I could go on but the fact is, we're too damned nice. We potentially have a superb team but it needs to show a bit of hunger and downright nastiness and Garner sure as hell isn't the man to bring those qualities out..

[THE FLASH]

Havent read back.

Two good, well worked goals for each side and even stevens at half time.

Second half was a shit show. We hardly got over the halfway line.

The fourth was a foul in the build up BUT it didnt matter...

The ref was shite but it didnt matter....

A deserved victory for Orient....end of.

The great run comes to an end in dramatic fashion...

Unbeaten away until December! I would of taken that pre season.

[4D]

We didn't score two 

[DiV]

Think the current page of pots are extremely accurate.

We play like a Premier League clubs under 23s. We keep possession and like to pass the ball & you know what for our level we are very good at it - we can/will/do open teams up with it and beat them.

I’d be confident going up against any ‘footballing’ football team in the bottom two divisions. Probably give some Championship teams a good game of football too.

Think if we got dragged into a bit of scrap we’d get done every time.

Bit much to say we are all style and no substance because we are winning more football matches than we lose

…but…I’ve yet to see us employ any sort of plan b or different style of play when the ‘total football’ doesn’t work and we’ve certainly not been in a scrap.

I get football as a whole (and particularly grass roots up) are trying to move away from bully boy tactics and focus on nothing but football but at the end of the day it’s still a competitive sport and sometimes you have to change your tactics/style to win.

Dunno whether we have that mean streak in us.

[Jimmy HaveHave]

We definitely struggle against the Bradfords, Harrogate, Orient & Port Vale type sides let's hope Garner can find a way to nullify their strengths otherwise we will still come unstuck.

[Shrivvy Road]

I think January will tell us whether we intend to have a plan b. We just don't have the personel for it at the moment. Add a few players who are up for a scrap and we could have a superb season still.

Weirdly even last night we were just punished and despite a poor second half we could of been ahead before their 2nd with some better finishing.

game in hand and we can still be in the autos for Christmas so not all bad

[Jimmy HaveHave]

Orient fans very complimentary about us although a couple are saying we lost out heads in the second half.

[Batch]

Orient fans very complimentary about us although a couple are saying we lost out heads in the second half.

Hard to disagree really.

it wasn't a total disaster yesterday, just a shit result and some off performances.

the wider discussion of 'plan b' is fair enough

[Jimmy HaveHave]

They did say we were the best team they've played at home!