Thetownend.com

Tough one this. Orient are scoring for fun and we are superb away.
Saying that, they only drew against scunny recently but they did beat Hartlepool 5-0 and Sutton 4-1.

I'll be brave....

LOFC 1-3 STFC att: 6,697 (1,089 away)

Piece of piss. 1-4

That’s if the game starts and finishes with Storm Barra on Tuesday.

Law of averages suggest we won't win 3 away games in a week so a draw would be a good result as most of the top teams are playing each other. If we take a 1000 on a Tuesday night that would be a superb effort considering the cost right on Xmas etc

Our away record comes to an end with this one I think, one step too far.

2-1 to LO

I didn't want to write that but I think you could be correct.

How many Orient tickets have we shifted?

I haven't heard anything for this game

I suspect that so many people invested emotionally and financially in Saturday's game that most will have overlooked this one, and we'll take a disappointing 400-odd to what would otherwise be an attractive fixture. I fear a hangover on the pitch too.

Just up on twitter, 824 sold so far, which is pretty good.

Oops. Will happily be wrong on every detail of my post. :-[

Good turnout. Shame its a bloody Tuesday.

Great turnout considering it's not easy to get to on a Tuesday plus the cost with thee away games in a week

Especially when comparing to the piss stains miserable turnout at Sunderland last Saturday v a promotion rival.

400 odd.

Cracking support that.
It’s been a costly week, Walsall, Orient and Barrow.
Notwithstanding Exeter coming up.

If i’m that way tomorrow pm and it is POTD I may drop in.

Official STFC twitter account says yes.

Anyone know which pub is the 'go-to' for us in Leyton?

Leyton Technical, just up from the tube station on Leyton High Road seemed to be the one last time we played there.
https://leytontechnical.com/

First hurdle, get a job finishing that way. Second hurdle, finding somewhere to park my transit.

Or quite a few drink at Liverpool Street - Dirty Dicks or the Weatherspoons

Like a few others, am predicting an end to the great away run tomorrow - especially now I've seen we'll be playing in black, not yellow!

“Put the lotion in the basket.” Just had a silence of the lambs moment seeing you driving around in a transit 😂

My mate is running the line so free tickets .Therefore we will probably lose.

Fuck it.   Town wins 3-1.  Simpson bitch slaps them for 2 goals

Pre match Amat Victoria Curam in The Plough & Harrow.
Coffee to start with. Circle Line pub crawl to follow.

Always a pleasure to visit Leyton Orient.
Couple of years now since that great day when Anthony Grant strode onto the pitch like a colossus in the 36th minute and didn't put a foot wrong for the next 6 months.
A day notable also for glancing at the Wi-Fi connections on the phone & noticing that someone had called theirs "shut_it_you_slag".
Londoners eh.

No reason why the away run can't continue today.
Willing to put a big bag of 1 & 2p coins on that.
Not really had that win yet that sends out a statement to the rest of division.
Would happily take a draw though.
Am I right in thinking that Kenny Jackett is a bit of bogey manager against us?
Might need Chile's former 2nd or 3rd choice keeper to help us out by throwing one into the net.
So, after all that, rain stopped play due to waterlogged pitch it will be then. Hopefully people's smalls that were drying don't get blown onto the pitch from the flats.

I wonder what O's fans thought when they got David Peach for free from us. Much better at pens than left back possibly.

Can see no reason why we can’t continue our away run - although it wouldn’t be a shock if we lose. Hope the players are focussed on this and not daydreaming of nutmegging John Stones and lashing one into the net.

Feel sorry for JoJo missing the Man City game.

Is the ACoN definitely going ahead?

Sent from my CLT-L09

I find it very difficult to dislike Orient

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_3/4957574.stm

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :pint:

Swindon to suffer a single goal defeat in front of 5,161 fans with 1,030 Town fans there.

I remembered we had Craig Easton to thank, but I'd forgotten it was such a complete STFC infiltration job. Well done agents Easton, Alexander, Sabin... and the ref, apparently.

Was Martin Ling Orient's manager then, or am I years out?

Yes, I think he was

Yes - 2003 to 2009.

"We can see you washing up"

The only time I've been to Orient. Probably a few of you were in the group of us that went too..

I was there...

That chant made it to The Sun

Meanwhile back in London, the rain & wind have come.
Light drizzle, moderate breeze, enough to ruffle a hipster beard or two should they venture out onto a balcony to watch the game.

Thanks for that. Sabin and Easton among the scorers!

Home form table
5th Leyton Orient  pl9 w5 d3 l1 f19 a4 pts 18

Away form table
1st Swindon Town  pl9 w7 d2 l0 f18 a7 pts 23

Orients only home defeat so far this term has been to Harrogate 2-0 back in August.

They sit in 8th place (Swindon 4th) on 28 points (Swindon 33).

Both clubs have suffered 3 defeats, Swindons all at home and 1 home and 2 away for the O's.

Their recent league form is WDWDL and Swindons is LWWWD.

Orients leading scorers are Aaron Drinan and (ex Town) Harry Smith both on 11 goals each.

The Orient have several ties to Swindon, Harry Smith, Lawrence Vigouroux and ex Town loanee Tyrese Omotoye, they have ex Town hero Martin Ling as Director of Football too.

In the 40 matches between the sides at Brisbane Road - Swindon have come out the winners on 9 occassions with 12 draws and 19 defeats.

Swindon have won their last 2 visits there and have only had 2 defeats in the last 7 games there winning 3 and drawing 2 times.

Wasn't that on Boxing Day? Danny Wilson was appointed on the same day..  if so I was there that day also, i remember a lot of interaction from the travelling fans and the balconies of the flat that day.  And the burgers were orrible..

Ended up about six miles from Saturdays triumph, so I won’t be going to East London tonight sadly.

On the train from Peter-bog now

Absolutely bucketing!

Chance of this one not starting and/or finishing

Is tonight's game available on Ifollow for UK based fans ?

I know 3pm kick offs aren't allowed but not sure about evening games, partly due to remembering watching some last year, but was that lockdown related ?

Yes, it is.

iFollow (https://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/matches/fixtures/first-team/202122/december/leyton-orient-vs-swindon-town-on-07-dec-21/)

Well Im sitting in Riyadh trying to find something to watch.  Currently the mighty reds of Muharraq are beating the dirty yellow scum of Al Ahed 1 nil in the AFC cup.

No idea whats going on.  But Im 3 hours ahead, the internet is intermittent and the Beck 0.0 is not really a good substitute for anything.

I may try I follow later.

Muharraq are 2 nil up now.

Im sure you care.

Enjoy  :)

Whenever we used to play down the park we were always Muharraq, unfortuntely our keeper was a convicted shoplifter from Medina so couldnt catch fuck all.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGBqmJ7X0AIPNqc?format=jpg&name=medium)
SUBS | Ward, Lyden, Mitchell-Lawson, Gilbert, Williams, Hunt, East.

Bit tough on Hunt

yeah. my thought was critchlow is bigger. Have Orient got a big front man or two?

Another one bites the dust

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19765137.swindon-fan-banned-pitch-invasion-newport-county/

‘He’s big,
He’s red
His feet hang out the bed
Harry Smith, Harry Smith’

Ex Town striker 6 foot 5 Harry Smith and 5 foot 11 Drinan both on 11 goals so far.

Some bench that

It is very strong mate, probably the strongest we have had all season.

Feel a bit sad Granty is rather looking like he's near surplus to requirements.

I'd have thought there were still few better at slowing things down if we're under the cosh with points to protect towards the end of a game

Very good.  Im onto the A league now.  Sydney against Newcastle.  Le fondre has just scored for Sydney.  Im guessing thats Adam.

It is mate hes 35 now!

You doing ifollow?

The camera angle looks to be the furthest away I have ever seen, you can comfortably see inside both penalty areas at the same time!

Sure others must know...

Why is Anthony Grant not used and is he now basically finished with Swindon

Super Sammy on co comms tonight.

We play one defensive midfielder, he's been our best player this season. East has seemed pretty competent too when he's had a chance. Grant has been away a lot internationally, and hasn't been anything more than fine when he has played.

I'm not sure there's a huge conspiracy here. He's just unlucky that Reed has been a brilliant signing.

Im on it, but god knows how its going to last.

Ill be honest Im touch and go on it as Im up at 7.  I may fall asleep.

Our midfield is so good now he can't get a sniff at it, nothing more than that, him being away with internationals hasn't helped him either. Reed has been our best player this season and East has been impressive whenever he has played too.

clear falling out in my book

we've had games where we've had 9 subs and he still didn't make it.

no way he's not good enough for the bench.

This.

He may not be the best player to start games but he should be on the bench, week in week out. He was our best player last week against Colchester and hasn't had a sniff of a place on the bench even since.

Garners interest is developing players.  Once Reed settled into the role and Grant started getting picked for Jamaica, there was only one result.  A younger player gets the nod on the bench as that is better for the long term.

Orient player injured in the warm up so a late change to their side.

In a hotel room in Manchester watching this, just popped out for some fish and chips from Lou Macari’s chippy and it was closed.

Oh lord, Darren Drysdale. Why does that fill me with dread?

Deflected shot from them straight to Wollacott.

black kit looks shit!

Great ball from Reed to McKirdy who crosses but Vigs gets to it first.

You’re right about the camera angle JJ. It’s very disturbing.

Not a fan of this kit at all.

Gives me vertigo!

Gladwin low pass into the box but its in front of Simpson and cleared.

Never thought I’d be cheering on a team of refs.

Is it ok to sing COYB?

Throw to Gladwin in the box but he runs it into touch.

Payney you beaut.

Payne runs rings around 2 Orient players!

Conroy nice 40 yard crossfield pass to KKH but then Crich loses it taking it forwards.

Jojo straight into touch from his clearance under pressure.

McKirdy felled theatrically 35 yards out.

Payne is bossing this

Good FK from Reed to Iandolo but his header is weak and well wide.

He is all over the pitch at the moment.

Sam Parkin likes the "elusive nature" of McKirdys game, thats one way of putting it!

Payne lovely pass to Simpson but O's just get to it first, nice move.

Great pass from Payne.

Reminiscent of the Don. You knew he was there, just not where he’d pop up or what he’d do.

We are constantly looking for the looping pass to Simpson or McKirdy over the head of the Orient defenders.

He certainly is a "livewire".

The Man City scouts are going to be shitting themselves.  :)

0-1 near post by Drinan.

Oops.

Disappointing

Bugger!

Iandolo out of position somewhat, great pass and cross to set it up, lovely finish, unstoppable.

The first real shot of the game by both sides.

Pretty dire defending between Crichlow and Iandolo that one.  Iandolo should be out there but Crichlow has been lazy as well and not pushed him out, instead dangling around marking nobody.

Thought it had been a good game. They look a good team. But we aren't overawed.

fucks sake

good goal from Orient I suppose

TBF Crich has not been great so far, made a couple of mistakes.

Been a decent game of football though, end to end.

Odimayo cross goes over the bar.

I was going to get a half season ticket. I may wait a bit.

I like the look of the 3rd kit

Vigs shit kick into touch under pressure.

Crich long pass to McKirdy and Vigs just fets to it first in the box.

I think the thing is that we (as per normal) look confident and comfortable on the ball. But Orient look quick and dangerous.

McKirdy just offside from a long pass from Reed.

Nice move between Payne, Simpson and back to Payne who shoots straight at Vigs from 20 yards.

Am I the only person who thinks keepers consistently handle the ball when kicking out from the edge of the box?

McKirdy great dribble and cross but its inches from KKH's head.

Cant say I have paid it much attention, I will now on though.

Town 65% possession so far this half, Payne probably accounting for 50% of all of that on his own.

No.

Simpson wins a corner.

No

Port Vale 2 up at Rovers.

Gladwin miles wide from the corner unmarked.

Iandolo fucks up running the ball into touch under little pressure, silly and needless.

Ref should have played advantage with Simpson bringing the ball forwards when KKH was fouled.

Conroy tries another long diagonal to KKH but it goes into touch.

Orient have identified Iandolo (and a bit less so Crichlow) as our weak spot and are constantly pressuring him, successfully so far.

Oreint corner.

Good take by Wollacott.

1-1 Mckirdy

I think the shirt looks nice - i might invest in one after my pre-order of the home shirt took an age to be delivered and when i had to change (because the sizing is completely fucked up) they had none left of the correct size..  you can tell that I have got over it.....

What a great goal!

Iandolo makes up for the earlier one

Great counter from Simpson to Iandolo and his cross is perfect for McKirdy to stoop low and head it in at the near post.

Superb fast counter. Iandolo’s on a roll.

Although I think McKirdy was offside.

Town never let their heads drop after conceding.

Cracking goal, great assist.

I completely failed to celebrate the goal as I was waiting for the ref to blow for offside.

Get in.

Its still very end to end stuff, we are countering them with pace well.

In old skool rules, he wasn't, but VAR rules I agree he would have been.  Lucky we are playing old skool rules.

Cheer to the whistle ;)

2 mins added.

It’s a good old game of football.

Don’t think they’ve deserved either yellow though. Hope the ref doesn’t try and even things up in the second half.

Payne fouled again.

HT 1-1 pretty even TBH some good some not quite so good but fair.

Oreint fans booing.

Wasn't this ref the one that squared up to a player once? He looks like a whetherspoons doorman..

enjoyable half, a draw at least what we've deserved in this half.

Not just us then

A quality ref in my books

Yep. Darren Drysdale. Met him before the game,cracking feller. His handshake crushed my fingers

I booed Lorraine Chase at the Wyvern Panto a few years ago. Big mistake, I was sat in the front row. Stupid boy LL.

Quite a decent game of football to watch TBF, 2 sides with a gameplan and some nice passing on show, I would say we edged the first half, we looked better after we conceded.

Was that before or after you slipped him a pony?

Might take another to get us to f/t.

A mate of mine is Simon Hooper and he says he's a top bloke as well

Nice game to watch, not really a lot of action in either box but both teams looks quite good.  The last five minutes have become very niggly.

Crichlow seems a bit ropey today and he and Iandolo combined to give them the freedom of the right wing to set up their goal. Iandolo repaid the favour though with a cracking cross to McKirdy for our goal.

Not sure I like Gladwin and Payne this way around, they both both cut inside and clog up the play.

Reed has been very composed, some very nearly balls over the top.

It's there for the taking, Orient certainly don't look like they will just park the bus or push on a full press, which is allowing us to play.

We are more than deservedly level in this game.Payne and Reed bossing it. A Williams injection could swing it for us I reckon

That the Swindon PL ref?

What an awesome 1/2 of football. Two different but evenly matched teams. Pleased that we went in level at 1/2 time. Interesting to see how this progresses. Couldn't call it.

Thought Payne and Reed have been buzzing everywhere. McKirdy has been influential both on and off of the ball. Also thought Conroy and Odimayo have looked solid.

Simpson called the goal. Strong run from him and Iandolo, who has been full of running for others.

Yeah

The first one wasn't a nasty challenge, but it was a very professional little tug that stopped us breaking into the box.  McKirdy flung himself, but even if he didn't I think it was worth a yellow.

Sat in the Justin Edinburgh stand with my lad.Most muted goal celebration ever

Get this.

Harrogate 0 FGR 3

Orient fans views of the first half....

Couldn't get the away comms working during h/t but really enjoying the Orient lot. Very fair, saying that despite being on a transfer embargo and a winding-up order, we're the fittest team they've seen and have shown more quality than Forest Green, and all that with a Euro international on the bench. Nice.

yeah, their comms have said we look a better side than FGR a few times, hence the comment from their fans

Away commentators are very complimentary of us, fair play to them.

Good block by Jojo.

Iandolo with another poor defensive touch puts us under pressure.

Gladwin, Conroy & Iandolo all dozy on the ball.  Wake up!

Corner to Orient.

Don't pick on Iandolo there. That was Crichlow playing him into trouble

Gladwin not having a great game for me in the middle.

Crich put him in trouble but his touch was absolutely terrible.

Fuck me they've started well

Both FBS agonisingly close within seconds

KKH shot well saved by Vigs.

Iandolo inches wide after a dribble.

Simpson would have had a tap in if he was following in then

Simpson hasnt got into the game much so far, hes playing too wide he needs to come into the middle more.

McKirdy fouled 30 yards out.

He was always going to ground with that.

Poor free kick from Reed, well wide.

Great save with his feet by Wollacott.

1-2

Shit defending

FFS

Shite

Bollocks

Was that Conroy that let him breeze in?

Great finish but poor defending with him coming through the middle of 2 defender.

Conroy and Crich.

Pretty poor by Conroy, completely lost his man.

A couple of minutes of lazy defending there.  First off Crichlow and Iandolo looked about ready to let them walk it in, then KKH stands about 10 yards off his man and Conroy (I think) stands still.  It was  a good cross again, but you have to be a menace at least.

fucks sake

Drinan is running rings around Conroy at the moment.

Town get away with that scrambling the ball wide from a long throw.

Drinan is the difference between the sides, 2 great finishes.

McKirdy booked for high foot.

1-3 Smith

We’ve lost our positions.

Stupid black kit.

it's all your fault

Conroy again lost his man.

Lets never talk about the kit again....

We're all over the place.

Conroy is all over the shop right now.  It's all too passive in defence.

Our defending is our achillies heel, we look good going forward ropey as fuck at the back.

3 identical goals. We have completely disappeared as a defensive unit

Two good Leyton goals but Smith criminally alone for an easy third.

Conroy has been appalling this half

Be impressed if we got anything out of this now!

Centre backs seem to be all having their worst games of the season at once, which is at least good timing.

piss poor defending all over really

Our defence and to be honest our centre mid defensively is becoming an increasing concern IMO. We’ve lost the ability to keep clean sheets with the Vegans back at the start of October our last league one I think. Seems seem to walk through the middle at times.

Fucking Conroy.

Gladwin to McKirdy who is inches away from the ball 6 yards out.

Winchcombe and Minturn will be fancying their chances against Man City.

It was lovely whilst it lasted  :pint:

Great ball in from Gladwin but McKirdy can't reach it

Simpson well wide 1st time shot.

Get Williams on

indeed

Williams on for Crichlow.

Could've done with that going in Simpson lad

Williams must be frustrated he is not getting a consistent run in the team, seemingly being rotated with Gladwin

McKirdy must learn to keep his gob shut.

Get Mckirdy off before he gets sent off

I would get JML on for McKirdy.

JML on for McKirdy.

I find myself saying that every match

Luongo just been sent off for a nasty one, not like him

Done. And there goes our one and only threat.

433 is not going to work against this lot

We look terrible now

After a brilliant first half we now look a proper shambles

And at the same time our biggest liability at times.

At least he is gone with a replacement

We've completely lost the plot here. Have to say they've done a number on us this half

Att 4020 with 955 of us  :toocool:

4,020 is a piss poor home crowd a near top of the table clash, just over 3k home fans.

2 more red cards for Rovers tonight, and they say that teams don't reflect their managers playing style

Gladwin’s barely found a pass all evening.

1-4 Smith

COD time

Goodnight

This is a bit embarrassing now…

Foul on Payne in the build up

We haven’t got close to them this half. Very naive.

1st half we did well TBH, 2nd half they have run us over, we have been poor all over the pitch, the only one to come out with much credit has been Payne who hasn't stopped trying.

Defo should have been a foul initially but we should be stronger

Garner needs a rethink. A few teams could have done what Orient have this evening. Players just walk through midfield/defence. Reed and Lyden, maybe.

It's not quite the same, but maybe the same underlying "issue".  IN the way we simply refused to change approach against teams like Bradford, tonight we've replied to coming a little under the cosh by just deciding we are better and our way works, so we almost double down on it when a healthy dose of pragmatism is warranted.

I thought Odimayo hadn't done a lot wrong.

Been spanked tonight.

Oh well. It happens every now and again!

They havent been 3 clear goals better than us, but defensively we have had an awful day at the office, we havent come up against 2 very good strikers on form at the same time...until today.

Is Conroy fit? He has been fucking appalling tonight.

This could be a very different game is Iandolo (who did very well to create the chance) finished from 6 yards earlier. Their front two look very impressive - just difficult to tell if we’re making them look that good.

I think that could be a good shout. Definitely not Payne-Williams-Gladwin. We’ve been carrying Gladwin all season tbh.

Apparently they see Lyden more atttadking as opposed to being defensive.

But at least he has some defensive bite about him.

Just need to put this down as a bad night, i had a feeling this was going to be an away game too far.  To think we were going to continue winning all of our away games is not realistic. Now is the time to get ourselves playing well at home

Not sure Garner rates Lyden or if hes not fully fit, he rarely seems to get much game time.

Jackett being a shithouse, ball boys not collecting or returning balls, flagrant time wasting. Not that it matters in the grand scheme.

Absolutely, right until the 3rd goal I thought we could still win or at least not lose.

Our defence had different ideas to that though.

8 goals in 4 days for the Os.

It does help when you have 2 strikers now on 13 goals apeice, they are on top form.

I’m not exactly sure how it works after the first of the year to get players or if the club can afford any.   But if possible they need a defensive player.   The back line just gives up too many crossing balls.   If they could shore up the defense some I think they could really do some damage the way they are able to move the ball around.  

It's not even that which we lack, it's the desire to want to just hunker down for a bit and hold positions.  Clear it, reset the shape etc.

Payne and Gladwin certainly don't provide much cover - they both want to be on the ball so they drift around a lot.  Gladwin in a slow way which leaves him out of position and Payne in a schoolboy chases everything and runs to get the ball way, which again leaves him out of position.  Reed is ball player rather than a fighter as well.  None of them strike me as a midfielder that would think they had a good game because we had a clean sheet, they probably all measure their impact by goals, creating, good passes etc.

I think we will have this all season, it isn't going to change.  Garner's way is an arrogant one on one hand, but also supports development of good young players to a degree.  It's no mistake he struggled at Rovers where he didn't really have the players to play his way, but did so anyway.  He clearly tries to build a team as a "project" with three t five years in mind.  The antithesis of the "only focus on the next game" Manager if you like.

Its difficult to shore up the defence with better players who we can actually afford and that fit into the Garner youth model when in this league.

Defence has been our achilles heel all season TBH.

Good post.

Would tonight have yielded a different outcome if the general was playing?

I think quite possibly so.

One to forget this. Everyone played below their ability, nothing quite worked. Bad day at the office.

At this level, we lack an old fashioned defender.  One with some height and one who just likes to head, tackle and mark a player.  No interest in being part of the build up.  Not going to happen though.  Same for midfield, we lack battler, but we won't be getting one.  Garner clearly believes the best way to play is his way and if it not working to do it some more.  Over the course of a season, it looks like that will work this year - very few teams in this division are as good as Orient have been tonight.

FT 1-4 that was a bad day at the office, next game.

Still only 4 off 2nd with a game in hand - not too shabby

Never mind tactics or style, I'm sorry to say Orient wanted it more than us from the very off in that second half.

They were a very good side at this level, mind.

January is going to be interesting, but unless the embargo ends up being cleared then we will be looking around for a lower player hoping to come good and having to wheel and deal, if it is cleared then we will be able to sign a better quality of player that might make the difference between play-offs and having a chance of snatching an automatic place.

I wonder if there will be any interest in any of our players, I'm sure we have 3 or 4 that could step up to the next level quite easily, hopefully nobody tries to buy any of the loan players either.

Who would have thought beginning of the season we would be talking about needing players to help towards promotion, long may it continue.

Poor defending and 4-1 did flatter them, but they are the best side I've seen us play this season.  Good, sharp passing, organised at the back, good strikers. They deserved their win.

Sam Parkin:
- Need another centreback. The centrebacks today made 2 relatively inexperienced strikers look like wily old veterans. Need more physicality there.
- Also need another striker. No way that Garner would have wanted to go into the season this light.
- Will be top 5 end of the year.
- See Orient being top 6 at the end of the year. Jackett has got everyone together pretty quickly. Not much depth on the bench

I'm not sure that Garner will be ready to question his approach, but I don't think we can carry this back line with this many luxury midfield players in future. Odimayo, Conroy and Crichlow don't seem to play close enough to each other, partly because they get no defensive support at all down the flanks from Iandolo and KKH, and in the middle it's time to sacrifice Gladwin for more grit - Lyden or Grant.

The broadcasters might have just decided it's not worth televising this side...

Garner:
- Disappointing
- First half excellent. One lapse of concentration
- Had more lapses of concentration in the second half. Didn't defend the box
- Lots of positives, its just lapses of concentration that lost us the game
- Have to stop the ball from coming in
- Fourth goal was a foul on Payne, but it put the final nail in the coffin
- Don't think we tailed off. Still looked pretty strong
- It wasnt waves of pressure, it was just moments.
- One of those nights
- Need to defend a lot better
- Smith and Drinan are a good pair. But first half we minimised their threat other than one lapse
- Responded well, go level and had 2 good chances in the second half
- Challenge to curb McKirdy's enthusiasm. Need to channel it in the right way. Looked a harsh booking
- Sometimes he gets booked because of the way that he acts
- Reed booked for complaining about foul on Payne
- FA Cup draw have impact on concentration? No, not at all.
- We knew it was going to be a tough game. The overall performance was good.
- Just shot ourselves in the foot. Defending crosses and staying with runners cost us
- Important to bounce back quickly and not get too down hearted
- You cant defend like anyone in this league like that
- Man City is a good draw for the club. Focus is 5 league games before that
- Our priority is the league.

It's the comments like "lapse in concentration" that annoy me about Garner.  I hope he doesn't really believe that it is as simple as that.  In the first half, Hawes even mentioned how it seemed like Orient were targeting the space between Iandolo and Crichlow.  In the second half they threw a bit more at it and also went after the same space between KKH & Odimayo (they were often bringing their left centre back down the line - he wasn't much kop, but he created an overload).  It created lapses in concentration, but they were the result of increasing pressure on a specific point.  We didn't circle the wagons, we just carried on as before - Gladwin & Payne not really filling the hole before, and the central three remaining zonal.

I'm not saying we would somehow win if we switched it up at 2-1 down, and hindsight is a great thing to have.  However, it is not the only game where we haven't reacted to another team getting a leg-up on us.

I’ve only been to see Swindon three times this season (although I watch all games on iFollow if I can’t attend) - Carlisle, Harrow and Orient and I have to say it- I don’t think we are that good…. How we are up there I don’t know. In years gone by we had a Parkin, Cox or Austin up front or at least a Ritchie and in defence, a calderwood, Bodin or even a Caddis but this season. I feel we don’t have those level of players and we’ll be found out. Not complaining, as that’s better than I expected but o think we’ll
Struggle to hold a play off place without more information investment…. I am pissed and pissed off after tonight though ;-)

Absolutely not going full knee jerk here, but viewing that loss in the context of a very good season so far.

But fucking hell, what the hell do our coaching staff and players do in the week when it’s time to train for defending crosses?! Is it even in our syllabus?

Going off that match, I don’t see too much need to suddenly change our style or philosophy…that 65 minutes, we were largely on top on balance, except for 3 crosses into the box that they put away. Have to say their first, fair play, very good ball in and finish, but the other two, whilst decent balls in, we’ve made no concerted effort to close the ball down on the wing or fling ourselves at it as the ball comes into the box. Both times it looks like two of Conroy/Critch/odimayo just watch it fly close past them expecting someone else to deal with it with no regard for the in-form strikers attacking it.

Take those out of it, we’re in control until we have to start chasing the game and our passing goes to complete shit (more credence to Garner’s philosophy of keeping the ball and working opportunities than just try and bung balls forward all the time, we were fucking useless when it came to that).

I’ve said previously that going off percentages in league two you can afford some sloppy defending at times as it won’t always be capitalised on in this league..but when you’re facing two strikers in form and a side that has been scoring freely, you’ve got to acknowledge that and do something to stop those players coming onto the ball in the box.

Hopefully garner learns from tonight and gets on the case. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the goals conceded over the season have come from crosses, Walsalls certainly was.

The orient comms were very complimentary about us, even after going behind, so it’s clear we’re not doing a whole lot wrong. Just some things we need to brush up on.

Didn’t see that coming at all at half time. Thought we played well first half and they took their goal very well. 2nd half started so poorly and were never at the races. 2 good crosses into the box but nobody seemed to follow runners and that was game over. 4th was a foul on Payne and Conroy looked so slow. Wouldn’t be knee jerk at all, but side will get unstuck against teams with physicality (and streetsmarts) until we sign a physical centre back and a striker who can hold it up

First away game so feeling a bit of a Jonah.

Orient clearly deserved to win but the scoreline flattered them.  Was it 4 goals from 5 on target shots?  We shaded the first half and if we had taken one of our chances early in second half it might have been very different.  A few people were talking about the 'Man City effect' on the tube back but I don't really buy that. 

Orient are a pretty good team and bang on form. Just one of those things.

It’s about time the defenders realised they are defenders first and not supplementary midfielders. The problem with a manager like Garner is he is 100% wedded to one way of playing and that’s that - it’ll always be more of the same. He’s never going to bring in an old fashioned lump of a CB or striker - they don’t fit his profile.

We’ve been lucky in previous games where we could have had conceded 4 - most sides don’t have strikers capable of putting away many of the chances they create against us.

Even after that Garner reckoned it was a good performance. It’s that obduracy and not willing to recognise the problem let alone tweak his system to rectify it which is going to see us fall short this season.

More of the same, just better, isn’t going to cut it.

I think it will cut it, this season.  I imagine being in the hunt is above expectations and the quality of player we managed to get is a bit above average for this league, but this season was a free hit for Garner which does play into his hands a little.  Gives him a zero pressure season to ignore the game to game results business and focus on building and developing.  Going to be frustrating at times, but we are just going to try and perfect it, maybe adding a little more quality along the way.  I can well see him getting us up this season or next, my worry for him is beyond that.  We don't really have the budget to buy in that extra quality for League One very often and will fans give him several seasons of more matches like tonight than FGR to build at that level?   I doubt it.  A worry for next season, or the one after that though.  Despite my criticism, I am generally enjoying this season, especially given where it could have gone.

I'm not sure that's a problem. Our most successful managers were wedded to a particular style of play, and it didn't do them much harm.

Macari played the same way, ball winning CMs, fast, attacking wingers, through three divisions. Ossie played a MF diamond, Hoddle played with a Libero and wing backs. Always. Even diCanio had a clear idea of what his team should look and play like.

Garner has been much more flexible in the formations he's played than any of them. This season we've played: 532/352; 3421; 442 and maybe more.

The issue is the ability to recruit and coach a team capable of delivering that model of play. And our management team have had real challenges to face in both of those areas, as we all know.

In general, for a team put together under those restrictions, that have been coached in this style of play for a couple of months, they're doing pretty well.

Every one of our most successful managers had nights like last night when the philosophy seemed to fail completely. Fortunately they didn't just junk their ideas and go back to the drawing board.

To take that point and follow on from it... and this is a genuine question. Has the phrase "get stuck into them lads" been erased from the lexicon of modern coaching terms? I can't imagine Garner's used it in his entire life. We just seem to be lacking a bit of heart, passion... call it what you will. Case in point... Tyreece - he's a big old lump, built for rugby and his big strength is his errrr... strength. But he's not using it.. he should be getting in amongst opposition defenders and bullying them and making their lives a misery (without giving away a load of free kicks of course)... it's not happening though. Where's the shithousery coming from since The General went into semi retirement? I could go on but the fact is, we're too damned nice. We potentially have a superb team but it needs to show a bit of hunger and downright nastiness and Garner sure as hell isn't the man to bring those qualities out..

Havent read back.

Two good, well worked goals for each side and even stevens at half time.

Second half was a shit show. We hardly got over the halfway line.

The fourth was a foul in the build up BUT it didnt matter...

The ref was shite but it didnt matter....

A deserved victory for Orient....end of.

The great run comes to an end in dramatic fashion...

Unbeaten away until December! I would of taken that pre season.

We didn't score two  :)

Think the current page of pots are extremely accurate.

We play like a Premier League clubs under 23s. We keep possession and like to pass the ball & you know what for our level we are very good at it - we can/will/do open teams up with it and beat them.

I’d be confident going up against any ‘footballing’ football team in the bottom two divisions. Probably give some Championship teams a good game of football too.

Think if we got dragged into a bit of scrap we’d get done every time.

Bit much to say we are all style and no substance because we are winning more football matches than we lose

…but…I’ve yet to see us employ any sort of plan b or different style of play when the ‘total football’ doesn’t work and we’ve certainly not been in a scrap.

I get football as a whole (and particularly grass roots up) are trying to move away from bully boy tactics and focus on nothing but football but at the end of the day it’s still a competitive sport and sometimes you have to change your tactics/style to win.

Dunno whether we have that mean streak in us.

We definitely struggle against the Bradfords, Harrogate, Orient & Port Vale type sides let's hope Garner can find a way to nullify their strengths otherwise we will still come unstuck.

I think January will tell us whether we intend to have a plan b. We just don't have the personel for it at the moment. Add a few players who are up for a scrap and we could have a superb season still.

Weirdly even last night we were just punished and despite a poor second half we could of been ahead before their 2nd with some better finishing.

game in hand and we can still be in the autos for Christmas so not all bad

Orient fans very complimentary about us although a couple are saying we lost out heads in the second half.

Hard to disagree really.

it wasn't a total disaster yesterday, just a shit result and some off performances.

the wider discussion of 'plan b' is fair enough

They did say we were the best team they've played at home!

We really did. It’s very easy to see why McKirdy is disliked at Port Vale. He’s been largely good for us but his fuse is gone in an instant

He definitely loses the plot easily

If he wasn't a character he would come in for a lot more criticism than he does

I think this is spot on - I actually think this side is more suited to Lge1 than Lge 2, which is encouraging if we actualy did manage to get up.  We haven't had any players capable of the ugly side of the game for quite a few seasons (maybe Grant, but I think he is better than just that)

Orient didn’t employ any rough house tactics. They uncovered our weaknesses and exploited them - as good sides should. Get crosses into the box, our defenders piss and panic, take advantage.

This is where I don’t think Garner really studies the opposition at all. It’s all about how we play and pay no attention to the opposition and their strengths and weaknesses. It’s as if our football will overcome no matter what the opposition do. Garner seems to be a very good coach but a tactician he ain’t.

Grant can (could?) no doubt play football but there is nothing wrong with a footballer having multiple string to their bow.

More prevalent the lower down you go because the quality gets lower but just because someone is a shithousing tackler doesn’t mean they can’t play football too.

Whilst he’s now a caricature of himself as a pundit - Roy Keane is mostly remember as a thug tackler, fight starting, dirty midfielder - which he was…but…people forget he could actually play football as well…

Football is a game about scoring goals and not letting in goals, its not rocket science, all the passing and play is largely totally irrelevant.

If you score goals and don't concede then you will win games.

Orient didnt really look like conceding against our forwards other than the well worked goal which may or may not have been offside.

Yet, every time they broke they looked like scoring against our poor centre backs yesterday with some good deliveries and 2 experienced strikers that attack the ball.

Its rare that almost all our defence play that badly at the same time.

If Garner truly wants us to gain promotion then the January window will tell us all we need to know, if he buys players with some experience and know how who can change our style ala Grant, Doyle etc then we will be going for it, if we go for young untested players possibly on loan from Premier sides then it will be exactly as we are now.

Which basically means some good some bad and results showing the same thing and us threatening at times and looking poor at other times with poor consistancy and a percieved lack of "dirty work" when needed.

As it stands it was a blip and a bad day at the office, hopefully that will change again on Saturday and we can get back to winning ways. No knee jerk, this is all stuff we can all see all season for those of us that have watched every game.

Garner does seem very very stubborn in his way of playing and often refusing to change things, something my Rovers supporting mate told me about prior to him signing which I laughed off and said different clubs different styles etc.

Will be a big window for Garner and team so lets see what it brings in a few weeks, I and all fans would love us to be a self sustaining club getting rejected youngsters in and coaching them to a better standard and selling them on for huge profit.

But, there is no need to fill the side with such prospects you need some more experienced pros to settle the ship on the pitch and get you results who can help these players on and off the pitch too, its a very fine balance.

Yesterday for example, we had only Payne starting and Williams who came off the bench with more than 120 league games under their belt, and yes that included Gladwin!

Good post and clear for all to see.

I don't think our defence is close to L1 standard, and we've actually been pushing our luck in this league for several weeks. We made the mistake of not strengthening last time we went up, and if we don't get organised quicker, play as a tighter unit and get better at the basics then we'll be lucky to make an auto place, let alone survive at the level above with our current options.

Agreed.  Not to the same degree but as an example look at Alan McCormack when he was with us.  A very good football player but able to mix it up when needed (he's the only one that came to mind, but there are probably better examples).  SSP was capable of a bit of rough housing as well as being a very good player.

To Audrey's point, LO didn't deploy rough house tactics I agree, but there was a different level of physicallity about the make up of their team that we couldn't cope with - the same can be said about our matches with Harrogate and Port Vale.  We are a very small team in certain areas, you don't usually see many 5' 8" defensive midfielders unless you have Makelele or Kante in your midfield.

LO may have not employed rough house tactics but we *might* have been able to stop them *if* we *had* employed rough house tactics.

Exactly, but that takes me back to my point that we don't really have the personel capable of playing like that, and as others have said this doesn't match with the managers football philosophies..

I stand by my assertion that Garners career will eventually edge towards Senior Development style roles in big clubs.  You can see what he does and he seems to do it quite well.

Guardiola may be the pinnacle of such coaches, in their minds, but he's more than a coach.  Sure, he gets his teams playing a certain way, and they don't vary a massive amount once built.  Yet compare his Barcelona team with his current Man City team - the former were all over teams when they lost possession and played with very wide attacking fullbacks while overloading the middle with tricky forward thinking players.  The latter has fullbacks that are encouraged to come in and support them midfield with an entire army of forward thinking players who drift wide.  He can deploy different version of the same style.

Also, in both teams, he was successful when deploying someone in front of the back four who liked to kick the other team (Busquets) or players who would happily drag or kick a player to avoid a counter attack (Rodri, Fernandinho).  His Bracelona team swarmed, the Man City team likes a cheeky foul.  Both teams were designed knowing that for 30% of the game the other team would have the ball and you need a way to stop them.

Just watched the goals back and I'm sorry to say but Conroy has had an absolute shocker.
1) Man runs in front of him
2) Man runs in front of him
3) Man runs in front of him
4) Gets licked for pace for shot leading to rebound.

KKH also didn't cover himself in glory for allowing 2 crosses to come into the box so easily.

Saying that, Vigs made a brilliant save at 1-1 (went through bodies and was a lot more impressive in person than highlights suggest). Game could have turned our way then, but our luck had run out on the road. Time to turn the home form around!

At times I see some parallels with our backline of 14/15…a right wing bank whose best attributes are attacking (Byrne), three younger CB’s who play out from the back and a more steady left wing back (Toffolo)

That side could get a good hiding from time to time too, whilst also playing sides off the park at other times.

Plus the abundance of talented ball-playing central midfielders

I find it a bit unfair that you are writing off a manager sat 5th in league while then going on to compare him to Guardiola and mention players like busquets.

Interesting to compare this season against 2019-20 at this stage (19 league games)

19-20 W11 D3 L5 F32 A 22 P36
21-22 W9   D6 L4 F29 A 22 P33

Honours pretty even.

Had Doyle got into full form by then?

Bloody hell you made me check....  :D

He had scored 17 league goals in the first 19 games.

Not too bad.

I am not writing him off, just suggesting where I think he will eventually end-up.  He doesn't seem as canny as you need to be when "Managing" a team.  I've also said I think he has a good chance of getting us up and, given time, he could do well with us above that level.  He has a rare opportunity with us though, usually it will be more Bristol Rovers and no patience.  I think he will end-up in a very influential role at a big club, that's not really writing him off, just a different branch.  I have also said I could be very wrong.

I was using Guardiola as a way of showing that he needs to be more than just an excellent coach.  It'salso interesting that you can probably cite more examples of Sheridan's than Guardiola's in football.

The Wellens team would bully the Garner team, but would a Garner team look more effective with the Wellens budget?

In the light of the financial shenanigans with Pee Lower how much was the budget in any one given season v anyone else’s?

Not sure if its budget or just striking lucky with Doyle TBH.

I imagine our budget this year is much lower, simply because of the EFL restrictions.

He certainly had a purple patch, and I doubt we planned on it being so good, BUT, we did set-up to maximise his skillset.

Reasonable point, countered by the clubs not being skimmed by a person of dubious intent. Truth being is we’ll never know about the finances pre Clem.