New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[TheSpiritof69]

Please tell me they have not taken to kissing his arse as well ?

I'm still waiting for them to publish and open letter from SO69 or loathed stranger on why it should be a No

We won't be joining the list of "open letters". We don't believe a significant number of people will be swayed one way or another by Dick Mattick or James Phipps or us writing a letter. We'll continue to present information, and let people decide, then respond WRT what that means and either a) why fans have voted it down or b) why it's terrifying that it's been approved.

[ron dodgers]

It get's worse. You're giving dalumpyspunky a reach around AND in return, they're in your box? Each to their own but it's now clearly obvious why they're packing their fudge into your box.

You're all over them like a cheap suit

mmmm cheap suet pudding, apple and cinnamon!!

[cambs _red]

Genuinely still undecided on how to vote, not often that happens.

No real issue with the plans, they make sense for the long term future of the club, despite some fair concerns.  Just don't trust the people behind the club to do this properly.

Utterly conflicted.  Yes, no, maybe no vote.  I do though fully understand the comments from the Trust that they are there to act on the view of their members, not the other way round.

[welshred]

Genuinely still undecided on how to vote, not often that happens.

No real issue with the plans, they make sense for the long term future of the club, despite some fair concerns.  Just don't trust the people behind the club to do this properly.

If you don’t trust them, how can you possibly give them a mandate to rip up the stadium? The only way you can vote yes on this is if you’re sure the ownership can be trusted to deliver the project. Which they obviously cannot.

[RobertT]

While the Trust are right not to express a view given the JV situation, maybe they could deliver some messaging on the degree to which they can, or cannot, hold the development party to account during the process of seeking planning consent, contractor sourcing, project delivery etc.

[4D]

I think with how well they have refurbished the Legends Lounge, fixed the shop sign, created the enviable Statue Park, and all the general improvements made such as working taps, the upkeep of Stratton Bank to keep it open and usable, a full club shop and vending outlets. You'd have to one bovril short of a picnic to say no.

[No Longer Posh Red]

I think with how well they have refurbished the Legends Lounge, fixed the shop sign, created the enviable Statue Park, and all the general improvements made such as working taps, the upkeep of Stratton Bank to keep it open and usable, a full club shop and vending outlets. You'd have to one bovril short of a picnic to say no.

Except There’s no Bovril due to the imaginary national shortage

[Frigby Daser]

I’m dreading the result of the vote. It’ll be weaponised by the club to justify every cost cut, and player sale. It won’t have anything to do with incompetency and their own lack of credibility, it’ll be the fault of the Trust. And Holloway will over simplify it, and blame the Trust too, and it’ll be horrid.

[cambs _red]

If you don’t trust them, how can you possibly give them a mandate to rip up the stadium? The only way you can vote yes on this is if you’re sure the ownership can be trusted to deliver the project. Which they obviously cannot.

Because, despite them, I believe that the development (if done as said) would be good for the club and ultimately make it more attractive.  As others said, it is how much influence the Trust etc can have to hold them to account.

[Frigby Daser]

Because, despite them, I believe that the development (if done as said) would be good for the club and ultimately make it more attractive.  As others said, it is how much influence the Trust etc can have to hold them to account.

“If done as said”’ is doing some heavy lifting there.

And there lies the problem. It isn’t the plan that’s the problem, it’s those responsible for making it happen.

But what is worse, having a half-finished shell of a ground, or having the widening schism that will be created when there is a “no” vote. A horrible choice to make.

[DV]

Genuinely still undecided on how to vote, not often that happens.

No real issue with the plans, they make sense for the long term future of the club, despite some fair concerns.  Just don't trust the people behind the club to do this properly.

Utterly conflicted.  Yes, no, maybe no vote.  I do though fully understand the comments from the Trust that they are there to act on the view of their members, not the other way round.

Will these plans actually benefit the club?

I’m no expert in business obviously but I just can’t see what they offer the club.

First of all - they need a 3m outlay to build the plans. This isn’t money Clem has stored away nor is Clem wealthy enough to just write off that 3m. Assuming Clem borrows the money, puts it into the club & turns it into a director loan - that’s increasing the club debt by 3m (from 12m to 15m I think) which also puts Clem’s asking price up (assuming at a minimum he will want all his debt paid back when selling the club)

Then once the plans are actually built the estimated ROI is 6 years - so the club are estimating the new facilities will bring in 500k profit per year. Stating the obvious by that’s 500k after operational costs.
So, for that number to be true - the new facilities need to make roughly 9.6k profit every WEEK every year for 6 years.

So, it’s now 2032 & we’ve just broke even. If we assume the club is still running at a 2m loss year on year that Clem plugs with his *cough* own money that makes the club debt owed to Clem 27m at this point.

…but…now the new facilities are in place & they’ve paid for themselves they are making 500k per profit every year. So the knock on effect of that is the club would only be operating at a 1.5m loss per year rather than 2m. So hypothetically that’s 500k less per year Clem has to borrow from people’s wives.

So, after all that - none of that money goes towards the playing budget, none of that money will go into a pot to fund any future stadium plans. It will just save Clem money as far as I can tell.

Obviously a lot of assumptions & hypotheticals around things I’m not well versed in…but…I can’t see what these plans offer the football club. They won’t bring in enough money to reinvest in the club. I don’t think they will make the club massively more attractive to a super rich more money than god oil baron.

So, yeah - other than a new place for deplorable odious cunts like Austin & Ranford to hang out in - what’s actually the point?

[RobertT]

That is part of why the proposal and business plan is missing a trick for me.  To do this correctly, and really make a difference, you want all that extra revenue from new sources, but you really want to extract more juice from the current customer base to shift the model.  Expanded facilities for joe public on top of new event space is where you can make a change in Revenue and bringing the club closer to break even.  There is some small talk about an improved space for general fans in the DR, but that is where I would be providing lots of detail.  How do we go from xx per person in spend to yy?  Also, what is going to happen with the existing facilities in the Arkells?, another stand that poorly supports match day spend and day to day spend.

[cambs _red]

I don’t think they will make the club massively more attractive to a super rich more money than god oil baron.

Agree with a lot of the rest, but I can't see a trust/part owners and it's members voting down pretty much the only real development in the ground in decades at the very first hurdle, making the club more attractive to any buyers.  Possibly an obstructive trust and fan base may put buyers off. 

Rock and a hard place.

[STFC_Manc]

Will these plans actually benefit the club?

I’m no expert in business obviously but I just can’t see what they offer the club.

First of all - they need a 3m outlay to build the plans. This isn’t money Clem has stored away nor is Clem wealthy enough to just write off that 3m. Assuming Clem borrows the money, puts it into the club & turns it into a director loan - that’s increasing the club debt by 3m (from 12m to 15m I think) which also puts Clem’s asking price up (assuming at a minimum he will want all his debt paid back when selling the club)

Then once the plans are actually built the estimated ROI is 6 years - so the club are estimating the new facilities will bring in 500k profit per year. Stating the obvious by that’s 500k after operational costs.
So, for that number to be true - the new facilities need to make roughly 9.6k profit every WEEK every year for 6 years.

So, it’s now 2032 & we’ve just broke even. If we assume the club is still running at a 2m loss year on year that Clem plugs with his *cough* own money that makes the club debt owed to Clem 27m at this point.

…but…now the new facilities are in place & they’ve paid for themselves they are making 500k per profit every year. So the knock on effect of that is the club would only be operating at a 1.5m loss per year rather than 2m. So hypothetically that’s 500k less per year Clem has to borrow from people’s wives.

So, after all that - none of that money goes towards the playing budget, none of that money will go into a pot to fund any future stadium plans. It will just save Clem money as far as I can tell.

Obviously a lot of assumptions & hypotheticals around things I’m not well versed in…but…I can’t see what these plans offer the football club. They won’t bring in enough money to reinvest in the club. I don’t think they will make the club massively more attractive to a super rich more money than god oil baron.

So, yeah - other than a new place for deplorable odious cunts like Austin & Ranford to hang out in - what’s actually the point?

I think people are taking the point around payback too literal, this doesn't have to payback Clem as such, due to increased revenue will increase the value of the club.  The only way Clem will make any money out of the club is to improve facilitiles and/or get the club promoted - as they both increase the value of the club.

[McGurk's Missus]

mmmm cheap suet pudding, apple and cinnamon!!

Yes, I believe that's what they'll be serving in the soon to be uncompleted and condemned section of the New Morfuni Nationwide Hospitality Stand