New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[tans]

https://x.com/verycross68/status/1912541292363383148?s=46&t=sUQ-fFgelrF5oqTmo-D8tA

https://x.com/verycross68/status/1912542867429409026?s=46&t=sUQ-fFgelrF5oqTmo-D8tA

[Bennett]

More questions added https://truststfc.com/2025/04/12/redevelopment-questions/

[reeves4england]

I get there will other uses, but how often is that going to happen. Most large companies these days do 1st round interviews on Teams before 2nd round face to face. If companies did book it for that type of use, £250 a day? its peanuts.  

It doesn't sound like a lot. But let's say on average one small meeting room is hired per working day. That comes to £63,000 over a year. If you can then upsell refreshment and meal packages you could be looking at more like £70k-£80k, most of which is pure profit.

Then add conferences and other networking events at a modest turnover of one event at £2000 per week. That's an additional £104,000, again with very little cost involved.

Then let's say one birthday party or other private function per week at £300, that's another £15,600 for room hire alone.

Then you can provide Christmas party packages... if 20 groups of 50 book in over the Christmas period at the current going rate of around £50pp, that's another £50,000 turnover.

If the corporate boxes are sold at a modest rate of £10k per season, that's another £100k in revenue.

So far we're at almost £340k turnover per year for the provision of a relatively low level of functions. The profit margin is high and that figure ignores bar receipts and other products which might be upsold, along with the potential to add revenue through other upgraded matchday hospitality offerings and the general admission bar.

Ok, I'm plucking a lot of these figures out of the air but I've kept the costs at the lower end of the current going rate and have assumed a relatively low take up. All of which to say, IF this thing is built and IF it is well managed by somebody with strong experience, the figures make a lot of sense. Again, it comes back to the frustrating question of why the club have not put out any kind of business case for the project. I don't quite agree with the spiritof69's stance that "It's just pretty pictures", but I agree the club should be doing a lot more to make their case.

Revenue is not profit

Hospitality undoubtedly has big overheads because you need plenty of staff if you want to offer an actual premium service and not meals on wheels or slopped out grub. Even with the shit state of the hospitality industry and pressured wages because of it you'll need minimum 2-3 kitchen staff, plus porters, plus front of house. They'll be paid whether or not those boxes are filled, unless you put them on zero hours contracts (wouldn't surprise me, especially as they'll essentially only be needed once a week 23 times a year). I'd imagine this would be a side gig for anyone with experience, but having a side gig if you work in a good kitchen that happens on a Saturday lunchtime you're having a laugh if you think you're getting a pass to go do from your current workplace. If you tried opening a restaurant which was open once a week 23 times a year I think you'd be laughed out of the bank - yes football hospitality is not a restaurant, but the same overheads remain in place.

So even fully maxed out, that hospitality revenue is looking shaky. It's not like Swindon doesn't have conference spaces aplenty that this will be competing with in the off season and during the week.

FWIW, I don't hate the concept, I just think replacing the best seats in our best stand (sorry Arkells) for it is dumb.

Interesting point about staffing. I used to work in a large church in London where they had a chef on staff who was close to retirement so wanted something with reduced hours and stress. He'd cook a staff lunch for 50 people on a Monday, and prepare meals for 100-200 people several other nights per week, but it was a much easier job than his previous role in a large five-star hotel and it suited him well as he approached retirement. If the club was utilising the facilities properly throughout the week, they could look to recruit somebody on a similar basis to cover both matchdays and corporate events.

[Andyred83]

It doesn't sound like a lot. But let's say on average one small meeting room is hired per working day. That comes to £63,000 over a year. If you can then upsell refreshment and meal packages you could be looking at more like £70k-£80k, most of which is pure profit.

Then add conferences and other networking events at a modest turnover of one event at £2000 per week. That's an additional £104,000, again with very little cost involved.

Then let's say one birthday party or other private function per week at £300, that's another £15,600 for room hire alone.

Then you can provide Christmas party packages... if 20 groups of 50 book in over the Christmas period at the current going rate of around £50pp, that's another £50,000 turnover.

If the corporate boxes are sold at a modest rate of £10k per season, that's another £100k in revenue.

So far we're at almost £340k turnover per year for the provision of a relatively low level of functions. The profit margin is high and that figure ignores bar receipts and other products which might be upsold, along with the potential to add revenue through other upgraded matchday hospitality offerings and the general admission bar.

Ok, I'm plucking a lot of these figures out of the air but I've kept the costs at the lower end of the current going rate and have assumed a relatively low take up. All of which to say, IF this thing is built and IF it is well managed by somebody with strong experience, the figures make a lot of sense. Again, it comes back to the frustrating question of why the club have not put out any kind of business case for the project. I don't quite agree with the spiritof69's stance that "It's just pretty pictures", but I agree the club should be doing a lot more to make their case.
Interesting point about staffing. I used to work in a large church in London where they had a chef on staff who was close to retirement so wanted something with reduced hours and stress. He'd cook a staff lunch for 50 people on a Monday, and prepare meals for 100-200 people several other nights per week, but it was a much easier job than his previous role in a large five-star hotel and it suited him well as he approached retirement. If the club was utilising the facilities properly throughout the week, they could look to recruit somebody on a similar basis to cover both matchdays and corporate events.

These figures are all well and good, but don't we have these facilities within the Arkells already, just not pitch facing? It would be good to hear from the club what we currently turnover already for this and how they have forecasted the growth (Ie new business). I honestly can't see the great need for conference facilities on a large scale anymore. We had the pandemic and we had to change how we worked virtually. This has become the norm now and costs companies far less in hire charges, getting staff to these facitlies, putting them up in hotels etc etc.

[horlock07]

It doesn't sound like a lot. But let's say on average one small meeting room is hired per working day. That comes to £63,000 over a year. If you can then upsell refreshment and meal packages you could be looking at more like £70k-£80k, most of which is pure profit.

Then add conferences and other networking events at a modest turnover of one event at £2000 per week. That's an additional £104,000, again with very little cost involved.

Then let's say one birthday party or other private function per week at £300, that's another £15,600 for room hire alone.

Then you can provide Christmas party packages... if 20 groups of 50 book in over the Christmas period at the current going rate of around £50pp, that's another £50,000 turnover.

If the corporate boxes are sold at a modest rate of £10k per season, that's another £100k in revenue.

So far we're at almost £340k turnover per year for the provision of a relatively low level of functions. The profit margin is high and that figure ignores bar receipts and other products which might be upsold, along with the potential to add revenue through other upgraded matchday hospitality offerings and the general admission bar.

Ok, I'm plucking a lot of these figures out of the air but I've kept the costs at the lower end of the current going rate and have assumed a relatively low take up. All of which to say, IF this thing is built and IF it is well managed by somebody with strong experience, the figures make a lot of sense. Again, it comes back to the frustrating question of why the club have not put out any kind of business case for the project. I don't quite agree with the spiritof69's stance that "It's just pretty pictures", but I agree the club should be doing a lot more to make their case.
Interesting point about staffing. I used to work in a large church in London where they had a chef on staff who was close to retirement so wanted something with reduced hours and stress. He'd cook a staff lunch for 50 people on a Monday, and prepare meals for 100-200 people several other nights per week, but it was a much easier job than his previous role in a large five-star hotel and it suited him well as he approached retirement. If the club was utilising the facilities properly throughout the week, they could look to recruit somebody on a similar basis to cover both matchdays and corporate events.

Fucking happy clapper 

[reeves4england]

These figures are all well and good, but don't we have these facilities within the Arkells already, just not pitch facing? It would be good to hear from the club what we currently turnover already for this and how they have forecasted the growth (Ie new business). I honestly can't see the great need for conference facilities on a large scale anymore. We had the pandemic and we had to change how we worked virtually. This has become the norm now and costs companies far less in hire charges, getting staff to these facitlies, putting them up in hotels etc etc.

The Arkells facilities are limited, dated and inflexible. And as for working from home, I've seen plenty of cases where this is increasing the need for conferencing facilities as businesses still want to hold in-person events but don't have their own premises to do so.

Every point you raise is an important one to consider, and is further proof of the need for the club to bring forward a business case for their proposals ahead of the Trust vote.

Fucking happy clapper 

 

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

Ok, I'm plucking a lot of these figures out of the air but I've kept the costs at the lower end of the current going rate and have assumed a relatively low take up. All of which to say, IF this thing is built and IF it is well managed by somebody with strong experience, the figures make a lot of sense. Again, it comes back to the frustrating question of why the club have not put out any kind of business case for the project. I don't quite agree with the spiritof69's stance that "It's just pretty pictures", but I agree the club should be doing a lot more to make their case.

"its just pretty pictures" isn't referring to the usefulness of the boxes at all, it's referring to the (lack of) faith in any of it materialising as presented given the history of Clem and co.

[RobertT]

The concept of improving and adding event/hospitality facilities is a good one.  The real worry is our complete lack of operational management - these things do not run themselves.  While the existing facilities are not perfect by any stretch, a key reason they are not utilised is because we do not have a team running them.  That is where the operational costs come in - you can't just bring a team once someone makes a booking.  Yes you can flex the hourly staff, but you need someone chasing up leads and pushing for bookings, you need someone marketing it, you need someone heading up the catering and available every day, a general manager in charge and onsite everyday to ensure the guests are being cared for by the staff etc.  It's why hotels work well in this field, they can leverage their existing staff at cross purposes when needed.

All that is by the by though, it still leaves the biggest questions unanswered - how will this be financed and how will it be contracted out for development?  I still have my doubts they expect this to go ahead in 2026 anyway.

[reeves4england]

"its just pretty pictures" isn't referring to the usefulness of the boxes at all, it's referring to the (lack of) faith in any of it materialising as presented given the history of Clem and co.

Yes I fully understand that and am sympathetic to a degree. No business case. No information on where the funding will come from to make it happen. No information on contractors to give assurance of quality. My point referencing SO69 was not about the usefulness of the boxes, but that the club could do a lot more to convince the fans this is a viable project, that the project will be effecitvely managed, that no conflicts of interest will arise, and that it will achieve its purpose.

[horlock07]

Yes I fully understand that and am sympathetic to a degree. No business case. No information on where the funding will come from to make it happen. No information on contractors to give assurance of quality. My point referencing SO69 was not about the usefulness of the boxes, but that the club could do a lot more to convince the fans this is a viable project, that the project will be effecitvely managed, that no conflicts of interest will arise, and that it will achieve its purpose.

Firstly inevitably there will be a business case (in fact I would be amazed if they have got this far without one already being in existence, if its like any other development of this type I've been involved with before, I would suspect that there will be a plethora of other consultants in the background doing all this as the architects wouldn't have the skills (or PII!) to just design something like this off the top of their head) as no funder would touch it without (and then they will themselves do similar to make sure it works for them).

Possibly more pertinent is will such business case ever be released into the public domain, who knows, whatever way you look at it (or whether you like it or not) STFC is a private company and whilst the Trust has some close engagement they are only as landlord so not sure what sort of engagement that stretches to.

On contractors its reassuring that the Trust have confirmed that they have the right as landlord to see contracts so I would hope will know who said contractors are and establish whether there is any CoI which needs addressing?

The problem remains that in a normal world there would have to be a degree of suck it and see and trust, but for a big lump of the fan base any trust fecked off a long time ago and isn't coming back so this scheme will stand on fall on the extent to which some are prepared to hold their nose and some don't and I have no idea how it will go. From experience down the years its very hard to gauge consultations until its over as its only the negative that tend to be vociferous (see also for instance people only tend to leave negative reviews for restaurants businesses etc)?

Whatever happens I honestly think its very naive/wishful thinking this idea that if this falls on its arse Morfuni is going to write off all the cash he (claims) to have put into the business and feck off, function rooms or not he's still gonna want his £8m (or whatever back) and so its just back to stage 1.

[reeves4england]

Firstly inevitably there will be a business case (in fact I would be amazed if they have got this far without one already being in existence, if its like any other development of this type I've been involved with before, I would suspect that there will be a plethora of other consultants in the background doing all this as the architects wouldn't have the skills (or PII!) to just design something like this off the top of their head) as no funder would touch it without (and then they will themselves do similar to make sure it works for them).

Possibly more pertinent is will such business case ever be released into the public domain, who knows, whatever way you look at it (or whether you like it or not) STFC is a private company and whilst the Trust has some close engagement they are only as landlord so not sure what sort of engagement that stretches to.

On contractors its reassuring that the Trust have confirmed that they have the right as landlord to see contracts so I would hope will know who said contractors are and establish whether there is any CoI which needs addressing?

The problem remains that in a normal world there would have to be a degree of suck it and see and trust, but for a big lump of the fan base any trust fecked off a long time ago and isn't coming back so this scheme will stand on fall on the extent to which some are prepared to hold their nose and some don't and I have no idea how it will go. From experience down the years its very hard to gauge consultations until its over as its only the negative that tend to be vociferous (see also for instance people only tend to leave negative reviews for restaurants businesses etc)?

Whatever happens I honestly think its very naive/wishful thinking this idea that if this falls on its arse Morfuni is going to write off all the cash he (claims) to have put into the business and feck off, function rooms or not he's still gonna want his £8m (or whatever back) and so its just back to stage 1.

I'd agree with all of that.

An interesting point about whether all the negativity is something of an echo chamber, and how much of it is coming from people registered with the Trust to vote. Hard to gauge this stuff.

[Batch]

The problem remains that in a normal world there would have to be a degree of suck it and see and trust, but for a big lump of the fan base any trust fecked off a long time ago and isn't coming back so this scheme will stand on fall on the extent to which some are prepared to hold their nose and some don't and I have no idea how it will go. From experience down the years its very hard to gauge consultations until its over as its only the negative that tend to be vociferous (see also for instance people only tend to leave negative reviews for restaurants businesses etc)?

This is fair enough, and if the will of the people is to take a chance and approve - so be it.

I'm not convinced without the details - this has the potential to kill the club as much as it does save it after all.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/25099404.ian-holloway-very-disappointed-swindon-town-budget/?ref=rss

Meanwhile Holloway is telling us how much we'll struggle to compete with the on the pitch budget next season.

[Outletred]

These frauds need to fuck off for good.

Preferably now if not once the plans get voted down

[Bennett]

a bit of an update from TrustSTFC https://truststfc.com/2025/04/18/displaced-season-tickets-update/