New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[STFC_Manc]

Ok that's fine. Simple question do you believe the admin fees will be all above board, do you think Austin, Hart Kiely etc are not getting any income at all from the club. Do you also genuinely believe that Halls mystery company is not being paid a penny by the club

I have no idea, do you know that they are taking money out? Is it any of your business how Hall is being paid or is the CEO not allowed to be paid for his services? (Whether he does a good job is a whole different matter!)

[No Longer Posh Red]

Look if in a general election there was a requirement to pay £20 to vote I think you’d find those with the most extreme views either way would vote. I’m just saying why not open up the vote to season ticket holders and be as democratic as possible. It’s not about whether I join the trust or not.

When the Tory party elected their leader(s), only members of the party got to vote on it, yet they were going to be the PM for the whole country.
Do you think that there should have been an election open to the whole country for that vote?

[STFC_Manc]

"Fans will have access to financial and accounts information"

Show me the admin expenses (part of the financial accounts btw).

The "detail" provided has actually got less since the last set of accounts were submitted

Where does it say you will get details of admin expenses? The accounts information provided has got worse but I will be interested to see if the fairgame has the same level of information in as last year, otherwise I'm not sure it would be worth doing.

[No Longer Posh Red]

I have no idea, do you know that they are taking money out? Is it any of your business how Hall is being paid or is the CEO not allowed to be paid for his services? (Whether he does a good job is a whole different matter!)

Hart will, (I’m sure) be being paid for his “strength & conditioning” services.

The question is whether or not the money to pay for those services is coming through legitimate means, and are they at a normal market rate?

The problem is when they are hidden in admin expenses and, from what I’m led to believe, our admin expenses are higher than most other clubs in our division it’s always going to look a bit suspicious. Especially when our ownership group are somewhat lax at being truthful

[RobertT]

Look if in a general election there was a requirement to pay £20 to vote I think you’d find those with the most extreme views either way would vote. I’m just saying why not open up the vote to season ticket holders and be as democratic as possible. It’s not about whether I join the trust or not.

Because it relates to a legal ownership structure and exchange of contracts.  The Trust had to show engagement from the fans in order to get the deal signed off on the terms they achieved.  Basically, you may want a vote, but you can't have one unless you pay your dues to be part of the ownership group.  If only 5 fans had signed up, they would not have been handed the keys.  If it relied on just Season Ticket holders being counted, the Council would have said that does not show any level of intent to be engaged as a good custodian of, what was, a public facility.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

Where does it say you will get details of admin expenses? The accounts information provided has got worse but I will be interested to see if the fairgame has the same level of information in as last year, otherwise I'm not sure it would be worth doing.

If we don't have details to where the admin fees are going, we don't have access financial and accounts information. You can't just spend millions under a category and shrug your shoulders when asked where it is going. Without the former, the latter are useless.

These sementics are a werid hill to die on.

[Nemo]

It's a symptom not a cause isn't it, nobody would be that arsed about financial reporting if the management of the club had the trust of the majority of supporters. They don't. It's a less libellous way of saying "we think you're hiding something dodgy here".

[TailBetweenLegs]

I have no idea, do you know that they are taking money out? Is it any of your business how Hall is being paid or is the CEO not allowed to be paid for his services? (Whether he does a good job is a whole different matter!)

I don't know why i even entertained debating with you.

I didn't say they were taking money out i asked if you would be happy to but we don't know why our admin expenses have increased so much because they won't fucking show us will they, that is the whole point ffs. My question wasn't are they it was would you be happy if they were.

Again the 2nd part isn't what i asked, the question was asked are the club paying 'any' money to that firm which they refused to answer.

They pick and choose what they want to disclose and shock horror the bits they don't want to disclose are anything that may or may not have implications that they are paying people for services that may or may not be needed.

You know all of this and let's be totally honest here if you are the club wanting the fans to vote through your only real hope of recouping the cash you have invested and you could make it all go away by saying fuck it fill ya boots have a look theres nothing to hide you would do it.

Instead we get a load of bollocks answers a load of lies a bloke as vice chairman but isn't really according to the club and then people like you say well why should they?

The reason they should is because we have a bloke acting as vice chairman who has been done for laundering and other people convicted of crimes around the club, we have a right to know if they are taking money out the club .

[STFC_Manc]

I don't know why i even entertained debating with you.

I didn't say they were taking money out i asked if you would be happy to but we don't know why our admin expenses have increased so much because they won't fucking show us will they, that is the whole point ffs. My question wasn't are they it was would you be happy if they were.

Again the 2nd part isn't what i asked, the question was asked are the club paying 'any' money to that firm which they refused to answer.

They pick and choose what they want to disclose and shock horror the bits they don't want to disclose are anything that may or may not have implications that they are paying people for services that may or may not be needed.

You know all of this and let's be totally honest here if you are the club wanting the fans to vote through your only real hope of recouping the cash you have invested and you could make it all go away by saying fuck it fill ya boots have a look theres nothing to hide you would do it.

Instead we get a load of bollocks answers a load of lies a bloke as vice chairman but isn't really according to the club and then people like you say well why should they?

The reason they should is because we have a bloke acting as vice chairman who has been done for laundering and other people convicted of crimes around the club, we have a right to know if they are taking money out the club .

Legally you don't have a right to know? While it would be great to know the details, what business shows that. If they went to the next level down of detail, you still wouldn't know, the only way to find out is go through every payment made, is that what you are suggesting?

[STFC_Manc]

If we don't have details to where the admin fees are going, we don't have access financial and accounts information. You can't just spend millions under a category and shrug your shoulders when asked where it is going. Without the former, the latter are useless.

These sementics are a werid hill to die on.

You do understand that what the club produce are accounts and have financial information in?

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

You do understand that what the club produce are accounts and have financial information in?

I do. Does that change what I said? The financial information can't just file millions under a category like admin fees or football and not tell us where its going. That isn't the transparency and access that was promised. You cannot possibly think it is. Suspect you're just a bad faith troll at this point.

Any comment on Zav still claiming to be Vice Chair to everyone he meets? Going to dive in on semantics on that as well and say that we didn't actually hear Zav say it himself so maybe it was just a misunderstanding?

[DV]

Yes but the whole point is the accounts aren’t detailed enough & our biggest & ever increasing expense is not explained in any detail at all.

If your Mrs. was suddenly spending an extremely high percent of your household income to the point where you couldn’t pay your bills on time - you’d ask her where all the money was going. If she said ‘stuff’ you wouldn’t then just nod accept that & move on.

I mean she’s giving you financial details. Not remotely answered any questions but I suppose she’s said ‘stuff’ so that’s ok.

I mean she doesn’t have to tell you. Someone else’s Mrs doesn’t give their Mr detailed accounts either so if it’s ok for another it’s ok for everyone.

[theakston2k]

Look if in a general election there was a requirement to pay £20 to vote I think you’d find those with the most extreme views either way would vote. I’m just saying why not open up the vote to season ticket holders and be as democratic as possible. It’s not about whether I join the trust or not.

Season ticket holders don’t own a share of the ground, so why should they get a vote? What makes a season ticket holder more important than some who pays on the day? How far do you them go, open it up to every fan on the clubs database?

The terms of the JV are clear, if you want a say get a voting share it’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

[RobertT]

That all depends DV, if you are trying to show to your friends that wife is a good wife and spends wisely for the benefit of your family, you probably want her to answer.  Also, you are not going to get as many buyers for your wife if she won't say where the money goes.   I think you need to press, or you'll be stuck with her running up the credit card.  Heaven forbid you put her in charge of the kitchen remodel.

[Audrey]

On the thorny question of ‘admin expenses’, I presume that whatever they actually are are disclosed to HMRC?