Cricket

[Posh Red]

Can somebody (who's a bit more than a casual cricket fan) explain to me how Ben Stokes seems to escape criticism?

I understand he's the captain and a key reason behind the more aggressive play style of the test team. He might be absolutely vital to our future success. But just to play devils advocate:

When you're averaging barely 30, bowling less and less each year (often not at all) then when does there become a time where you promote Pope to captain and look for somebody else to come through? because his performances are rarely there anymore.

Almost feels like he's in the side because he *can* win a game by himself. But does the potential of one magical innings out of 20 justify the consistently disappointing performances with the bat?

Remember Mike Brearley, England captain and opening bat who never scored a test century & had a pitiful batting average of less than 30, who most would say was a good England captain because he was a leader that could manage & motivate players

[Quagmire]

Can somebody (who's a bit more than a casual cricket fan) explain to me how Ben Stokes seems to escape criticism?

I understand he's the captain and a key reason behind the more aggressive play style of the test team. He might be absolutely vital to our future success. But just to play devils advocate:

When you're averaging barely 30, bowling less and less each year (often not at all) then when does there become a time where you promote Pope to captain and look for somebody else to come through? because his performances are rarely there anymore.

Almost feels like he's in the side because he *can* win a game by himself. But does the potential of one magical innings out of 20 justify the consistently disappointing performances with the bat?

Ben Stokes says thank you for this post. 

[Pericardinho]

Ben Stokes says thank you for this post. 

Haha.

It might look a little silly but obviously batting as opener against an already defeated WI side under zero pressure isn't quite the same as when we've needed him to produce totals against India, Australia etc.

[Quagmire]

Haha.

It might look a little silly but obviously batting as opener against an already defeated WI side under zero pressure isn't quite the same as when we've needed him to produce totals against India, Australia etc.

You did see his innings against Australia at Headingley didn’t you, and Lords for that matter, albeit the result didn’t go our way in that one.

[Pericardinho]

You did see his innings against Australia at Headingley didn’t you, and Lords for that matter, albeit the result didn’t go our way in that one.

Headingley was 5 years ago.

You're also cherry picking which innings you want to judge his batting on.

I am not saying he shouldn't be in the side, I was just adding a balanced argument that as a pure batsmen he has recently under performed. Usually you'd give leeway as he can also bowl (but he hasn't been doing that recently until now)

Whilst in his current physical state, he is obviously nailed on and rightly so. And obviously his captaincy skills would make it so regardless, as others have pointed out above.

[RobertT]

I've said it in the past, Stokes is not a great Test Batsmen and never has been.  His average belongs in the early 90's team.  Given his frailty as a bowler, if someone like Root was still captain, and the change in philosophy hadn't happened, he'd struggle to get in the team.  BUT, he is now integral to the team simply because of his captaincy.  If he manages a decent innings every so often and gets some wickets, that's a bonus really.  It's amazing the difference captaincy can make in cricket and I don't know who else gets us going the way we play these days.

[Ides of March]

Stokes is a player of great innings, but not a consistent run maker. In fact, away from England, he’s a very, very ordinary batsman. Averages just 33 away with the bat, but he’s one of the very few cricketers who has proven himself adept at rescuing his team from some of the most dire positions (with both bat and ball). He will end up like Flintoff regarding his stats. If you just look at his stats, nothing will particularly jump out at you, but the impact he has had on certain test matches has been unbelievable

[Qunk]

Stokes is a player of great innings, but not a consistent run maker. In fact, away from England, he’s a very, very ordinary batsman. Averages just 33 away with the bat, but he’s one of the very few cricketers who has proven himself adept at rescuing his team from some of the most dire positions (with both bat and ball). He will end up like Flintoff regarding his stats. If you just look at his stats, nothing will particularly jump out at you, but the impact he has had on certain test matches has been unbelievable

I think the comparison with Flintoff is fair, sometimes you can forgive a relatively poor average for the other stuff a player brings to the team. It was only a few years ago that it seemed like his test career could be over after the nightclub nonsense. Now he’s a man who’ll go down as one of our greatest ever captains.

[Pericardinho]

I think the comparison with Flintoff is fair, sometimes you can forgive a relatively poor average for the other stuff a player brings to the team. It was only a few years ago that it seemed like his test career could be over after the nightclub nonsense. Now he’s a man who’ll go down as one of our greatest ever captains.

Hmm,

Greatest ever in terms of changing the culture / mindset of the team? Sure.

But can you go down as one of the great england test captains without an Ashes win on your CV?

[Nemo]

I can't believe you're not counting our moral victory last summer.