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RedRag

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« Reply #180 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 10:42:58 »

A number of old fogeys blaming the one day game for our batting ills.

Don't the likes of NZ, Aus and India also play it?
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Nomoreheroes
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« Reply #181 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 11:15:21 »

A number of old fogeys blaming the one day game for our batting ills.

Don't the likes of NZ, Aus and India also play it?
I think us old fogey's are blaming the 'de-prioritisation' of the longer version of the game on England's lack of ability to bat long.

We have very few batsmen who seem to have the ability to bat for a whole session, a whole day or score a big hundred.

The assertion is being made that its possibly because there is so much focus now on the shorter form of the game and scoring runs quick rather than having players who can bat long.
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Nemo
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« Reply #182 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 11:20:17 »

There's a lot of people lashing out at the moment, as you'd expect in the immediate aftermath. The difficult truth is that it's probably a lot of contributing factors, and people exaggerate/ignore them depending on their own personal beliefs (so basically politics all over again).

Is red ball cricket a bit of an afterthought at county level? Absolutely
Is the amount of talent we have spread too thinly across teams? Absolutely
Does the scheduling mean that we don't encourage fast bowling or spin? Sure
Was the scheduling of this tour straight after the t20 world cup dreadful? Yes
Did the rain during what little preparation there was set us up to fail? Yes
Is Root a good tactical captain? Probably not
Are most of these players the match of their Aussie counterparts? Definitely not
Is playing away generally very hard in cricket at the moment with bubbles and quarantine? Certainly
Have we fielded dreadfully? Yep
Does Silverwood look overpromoted? He does

I mean, pick your own choice of reasons. There's a lot to it. I'm sure the ECB will have a review to pick their own favourite reasons.
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Pookemon

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« Reply #183 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 11:52:01 »

I think us old fogey's are blaming the 'de-prioritisation' of the longer version of the game on England's lack of ability to bat long.

We have very few batsmen who seem to have the ability to bat for a whole session, a whole day or score a big hundred.

The assertion is being made that its possibly because there is so much focus now on the shorter form of the game and scoring runs quick rather than having players who can bat long.

That is undoubtedly true but they have picked some players with no pedigree at all.   Hameed's highest score in county cricket, where he averages just 32, is only 120.

There was a time when Hick, ramprakash, moeen etc weren't being picked with averages of 60+.   I think Mo didn't get picket until he scored 1,500 runs 2 seasons on the trot and then it was because he bowled a bit.

One issue for me is the focus on Surrey and Yorkshire.  The disproportionate number of players that come from those teams is ridiculous.  A Surrey youngster will be thrown in with half a good season but one from Worcs or Glamorgan has to wait till they are 27 and scored 10,000 runs.  But by then they have picked up a load of bad habits and can't adapt to new conditions.

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Nomoreheroes
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« Reply #184 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 13:04:38 »

There's a lot of people lashing out at the moment, as you'd expect in the immediate aftermath. The difficult truth is that it's probably a lot of contributing factors, and people exaggerate/ignore them depending on their own personal beliefs (so basically politics all over again).

Is red ball cricket a bit of an afterthought at county level? Absolutely
Is the amount of talent we have spread too thinly across teams? Absolutely
Does the scheduling mean that we don't encourage fast bowling or spin? Sure
Was the scheduling of this tour straight after the t20 world cup dreadful? Yes
Did the rain during what little preparation there was set us up to fail? Yes
Is Root a good tactical captain? Probably not
Are most of these players the match of their Aussie counterparts? Definitely not
Is playing away generally very hard in cricket at the moment with bubbles and quarantine? Certainly
Have we fielded dreadfully? Yep
Does Silverwood look overpromoted? He does

I mean, pick your own choice of reasons. There's a lot to it. I'm sure the ECB will have a review to pick their own favourite reasons.
Liked that - Sat here applauding that post!
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Nomoreheroes
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« Reply #185 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 13:11:09 »

That is undoubtedly true but they have picked some players with no pedigree at all.   Hameed's highest score in county cricket, where he averages just 32, is only 120.

There was a time when Hick, ramprakash, moeen etc weren't being picked with averages of 60+.   I think Mo didn't get picket until he scored 1,500 runs 2 seasons on the trot and then it was because he bowled a bit.

One issue for me is the focus on Surrey and Yorkshire.  The disproportionate number of players that come from those teams is ridiculous.  A Surrey youngster will be thrown in with half a good season but one from Worcs or Glamorgan has to wait till they are 27 and scored 10,000 runs.  But by then they have picked up a load of bad habits and can't adapt to new conditions.


You are probably right about the bias - I wonder though whether money has a lot to do with it. Have all the best cricketers gone to the likes of and Surrey, Middlesex, Yorks because they have paid the best?

I guess its historically been difficult to get into England football team if you play for an unfashionable club. Closest to home for us has got to have been the question about why Charlie Austin never made it as an England international?
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Posh Red

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« Reply #186 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 14:21:42 »

Don’t forget Shearer & Calderwood who were both called up by Scotland almost immediately after leaving for Blackburn/Aberdeen & Spurs.

This at a time when we were a tier 2 team
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RedRag

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« Reply #187 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 16:06:48 »

I think us old fogey's are blaming the 'de-prioritisation' of the longer version of the game on England's lack of ability to bat long.

We have very few batsmen who seem to have the ability to bat for a whole session, a whole day or score a big hundred.

The assertion is being made that its possibly because there is so much focus now on the shorter form of the game and scoring runs quick rather than having players who can bat long.
As an old fogey, I concur with the general assertion.

My question is why do the likes of NZ, Aus and India seem so less "afflicted"?  I doubt Aggers and Co would have been raising the question had Eng. just trounced Aus with similar scores reversed.

The new God isn't limited overs cricket, it's money and you just reach a point in life where you have to accept your views have become irrelevant.

I wasn't overly excited by this series beforehand.  It was fuck off Pakistan and let's milk the Ashes cash cow.  Again. Most other test cricket has become irrelevant.  It just doesn't pay anyone to be the best test team or put in the slog of some tougher tours that can mould an emerging test side into a great one.

And now it's being proposed to have the Football World Cup every two years.  Please, let's keep SOME things special.


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Nomoreheroes
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« Reply #188 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 17:28:14 »

Is it because conditions in England favour 'dibbly dobbler' bowlers?

So when our batsmen go to Australia or the West Indies they think 'Fuck me that was quick!'

Then when they get to the sub continent they think 'Fuck me that turned!'

That then results in overseas bowlers coming to England. Our batsmen then think 'Fuck me!'
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Robinz

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« Reply #189 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 20:18:51 »

Nomoreheros... Spot on😄
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Nemo
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« Reply #190 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 20:47:08 »

Wood is quicker than any of their bowlers, it's not just pure pace.
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Nomoreheroes
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« Reply #191 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 21:03:05 »

Wood is quicker than any of their bowlers, it's not just pure pace.
True. But he doesn't bowl stump to stump and doesn't often get the ball to nip around.

Boland is in the Alderman/McGrath mode.
Starc in the Mitchell Johnson mode
Cummings just a decent quick bowler

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Pookemon

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« Reply #192 on: Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 21:18:30 »

True. But he doesn't bowl stump to stump and doesn't often get the ball to nip around.

Boland is in the Alderman/McGrath mode.
Starc in the Mitchell Johnson mode
Cummings just a decent quick bowler



There is Mediocraty in the county system but it has always produced top class bowlers.   Anderson and Broad to name just 2.  However it very rarely produces a decent spinner and almost never a wrist spinner.

The issue is not the bowling but the batting.   County scores are low, particularly when played in may and September, there's just not enough time at the crease.
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Hunk

« Reply #193 on: Thursday, January 6, 2022, 09:13:22 »

England 12* after Crawley survives only because of a no ball. What a batting performance by England thus far…relatively speaking
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Nemo
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« Reply #194 on: Thursday, January 6, 2022, 09:20:12 »

The way things were going towards the end here 400+ is an innings win score.

I see Khawaja was dropped off Leach 100 runs short of where he ended. Poor fucker, Leach, it's just not really happening for him this series and I'm not convinced it's his fault.
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