New Manager Thread

[Flashheart]

Watch the games from last season and listen to Wellens' post-match interviews where he reads the game tactically better than managers in much higher divisions.

To write last season off as 'luck' is a defence mechanism. Last season was brilliant. Wellens was and will be an excellent manager imo.

I did not say last season was not brilliant, did I?

We deserved to go up. We were the best team in the league, but that does not answer the point being made. Can you honestly not entertain the thought that maybe all the pieces just happened to fall in place for him? Is it really that far-fetched that the only other option is that I am 'delusional'

Can you not think of other examples? Like, say, Mark Cooper or Danny Wilson who were play-off finalists one season and relegation fodder the next? It's actually quite common. Why can the same not apply to Wellens?

[Nemo]

Is it acceptable to think that Wellens is broadly a good manager with potential to be an excellent one, and that the circumstances of this year restricted a lot of his best skills?

In the past, he's proved his tactical acumen, that he can work with players who are fairly injury-prone and get them on the field for most games, and that he can build a system to the strengths of individual players but with a few common threads e.g. an aggressive press.

Almost all of that is undermined by the compression of the schedule - playing two games a week every week gives so little time for anything other than recovery and getting back on the field. It also exacerbates his clear weakness in integrating fringe and youth players as you need those guys to do a job and Wellens has always been a 'core group' manager.

Whilst I think Wellens is great and think he'll be successful, I think we need quite a different skillset for the short term appointment here - someone a bit more motivational and a bit better at working with fringe/youth players and maybe with less tactical depth would seem a better fit for the current reality.

Partially I think the problem is that we still seem to see managers as binary good or bad rather than having specific skills & attributes just like players do.

[pauld]

Yes the knock on effect

Fair enough. My concern is that we, and probably 50-60 other Football League clubs, won't get that far. If we can get to the end of the season in order to be in a relegation battle, that's a positive for me. Obviously I'd rather not be in one, but getting to the end of the season is far, far more important than what league position we are in at that point.

I'll grant you though that the COVID recession and so the risk of going tits-up because of it will extend well beyond this season, that any club's financial prosperity is hit by relegation and that there would be a bitter irony in just about clinging on through the finanical hardship caused by circumstances outside of football only to be finally pushed over the edge by footballing reasons, but I still think the very clear near-term danger is that Football League clubs have been running on virtually zero revenue for 8 months and will likely be doing so for the rest of this season.

[pauld]

Given the furlough extension to the end of March, should a Club really be going bust?

Not sure if football contracts stipulate a number of hours, but let's say they are full-time contracts which might assume 40 hrs a week. The Club might be able to claim back 80% of the wages for all players & staff with the exception of the 8 hours training and 4 hours of games a week

HMRC would have you over the coals for that. There has to be a reduction of your normal working week. If your normal working week is 40 hours, then you can furlough for the parts of it you don't work. But if your normal working week is  "8 hours training and 4 hours of games a week" (and tbf I think you're underestimating that) then we try to claim for 80% of whatever proportion 28 hours of 40 hours is, I think you'd be looking at a pretty swift prosecution for fraud.

[Jimmy HaveHave]

Fair enough. My concern is that we, and probably 50-60 other Football League clubs, won't get that far. If we can get to the end of the season in order to be in a relegation battle, that's a positive for me. Obviously I'd rather not be in one, but getting to the end of the season is far, far more important than what league position we are in at that point.

I'll grant you though that the COVID recession and so the risk of going tits-up because of it will extend well beyond this season, that any club's financial prosperity is hit by relegation and that there would be a bitter irony in just about clinging on through the finanical hardship caused by circumstances outside of football only to be finally pushed over the edge by footballing reasons, but I still think the very clear near-term danger is that Football League clubs have been running on virtually zero revenue for 8 months and will likely be doing so for the rest of this season.

Listening to Powers last interview he sounded a beaten man and was open about hownbas the finances were and mention more than once that he's trying to run the club on his own which has always been his choice when many were calling for outside investment. The best thing all round would be for him to sell up to a consortium with more money

[Boeta]

I did not say last season was not brilliant, did I?

We deserved to go up. We were the best team in the league, but that does not answer the point being made. Can you honestly not entertain the thought that maybe all the pieces just happened to fall in place for him? Is it really that far-fetched that the only other option is that I am 'delusional'

Can you not think of other examples? Like, say, Mark Cooper or Danny Wilson who were play-off finalists one season and relegation fodder the next? It's actually quite common. Why can the same not apply to Wellens?

The key things for me are:

1) Wellens' tactical understanding of the game is sky high. I have never heard another Swindon manager read the game like him

2) The togetherness of the group - which may come down to the individuals, but the leadership creates the environment that makes it possible

3) How many goals did Doyle score under Gary Bowyer?

Of course, the pieces had to fall into place. However, Wellens was the biggest piece of the jigsaw.

[pauld]

Listen to Powers last interview he sounded a beaten man and was open about hownbas the finances were and mention more than once that he's trying to run the club on his own which has always been his choice when many were calling for outside investment. The best thing all round would be for him to sell up to a consortium with more money

I'm quite sure he'd agree if you can find one.

[Jimmy HaveHave]

I'm quite sure he'd agree if you can find one.

Let's not forget he wanted full control so he won't get much sympathy and maybe he could get his mate Tim to "bale him out"😁

[Flashheart]

Is it acceptable to think that Wellens is broadly a good manager with potential to be an excellent one,

Of course. That may well be the case, and you won't catch me calling anybody 'delusional' or anything else for suggesting so.

It is also acceptable to think that things might have just fallen right for him last season. It's not as though it's not happened umpteen times in the past. And it's all very well managers sounding as though they know their onions - most do. But talking the talk does not necessarily mean one can put it into action.

Time will tell.

[Boeta]

The key things for me are:

1) Wellens' tactical understanding of the game is sky high. I have never heard another Swindon manager read the game like him

2) The togetherness of the group - which may come down to the individuals, but the leadership creates the environment that makes it possible

3) How many goals did Doyle score under Gary Bowyer?

Of course, the pieces had to fall into place. However, Wellens was the biggest piece of the jigsaw.

Also, the ability to implement a clear style of play - that was great to watch

[Flashheart]

The key things for me are:

1) Wellens' tactical understanding of the game is sky-high. I have never heard another Swindon manager read the game like him

Lot's of managers sound good. It doesn't mean they know how to transform that into results.

2) The togetherness of the group - which may come down to the individuals, but the leadership creates the environment that makes it possible

Like you said - that could come down to the players.

3) How many goals did Doyle score under Gary Bowyer?

Very few - but Bowyer was a pretty shit manager by all accounts so that doesn't mean a thing.

Of course, the pieces had to fall into place. However, Wellens was the biggest piece of the jigsaw.

And that same 'biggest piece' was struggling horribly this season, despite having the same wage cap as most other teams in the league.

[horlock07]

Because he's always come across as a bit of an arrogant cock, even or perhaps especially prior to his recent spate of managerial stints. FWIW, I agree he's done a good job in impossible circumstances in those jobs, and he may well have learned some humility along the way but that's why he always produces a knee-jerk "God, not him" response

Don't disagree about Campbell, but people were happy with Wellens who had one hell of an ego on him writing cheques that his track record and present performances struggled to cash. Likewise if the pod is to believed Wellens was a grade A arsehole with Broadbent when his missus was unwell, so perhaps a lack of humility could be referred to him as well.

Unless Salford/Wellens come in for Hunt. It’ll be Hunt.

Who knows, surprised they haven't already done so if they were going to TBH?

Watch the games from last season and listen to Wellens' post-match interviews where he reads the game tactically better than managers in much higher divisions.

This season has rather countered that argument where he rather showed himself as unable to turn things around despite his apparent tactical genius.

Not really. I’ve never claimed we were a lucky team or anything like that. Just Wellens got lucky with all the players he bought in falling into place perfectly.

I can see where you are coming from, as noted previously he got lucky insofar as his method of buying injury prone players worked in that they tended to not get injured, said luck has rather deserted this year as the players are getting injured. Likewise when were were doing well and he was top dog he was lucky that he could bin players when he fell out with them, rather harder to do in a higher division when you aren't doing very well.

Not saying for 1 minute that he isn't a half decent Div 4 manager, but nothing has emerged to suggest (at this stage) that he can work successfully above that level, the idea that he is some sort of lower league Guardiola seems little evidenced so far.

I really don't care who the new manager is as long as
a) they at least have the ability to put a coherent team together and make us look like we have a chance for a while,
b) they don't cost to much and
c) they don't disappear up their arse and think they are more important than the club.  

[theakston2k]

The key things for me are:

1) Wellens' tactical understanding of the game is sky high. I have never heard another Swindon manager read the game like him

2) The togetherness of the group - which may come down to the individuals, but the leadership creates the environment that makes it possible

3) How many goals did Doyle score under Gary Bowyer?

Of course, the pieces had to fall into place. However, Wellens was the biggest piece of the jigsaw.

I'm with DV on this, we've had many managers produce a 1 season team only to fail the following season and Wellens was on course to follow that trend.

He did a good job last season but lets not pretend that the form of Doyle was anything other than extraordinary and the primary factor in us finishing top. Flitcroft talked a good game but as soon as things started going wrong it just became apparent he talked in cliches so not sure 'understanding the game' in interviews counts for much.

I don't agree with the tactical side either, he really struggled when plan A didn't work. I remember plenty of times when we were losing matches people questioning why he waited until the 80th minute to make a sub.

[pauld]

Let's not forget he wanted full control so he won't get much sympathy and maybe he could get his mate Tim to "bale him out"😁

I wasn't suggesting that he deserved sympathy, more that it's easy to say he should sell up to a consortium with more cash, the problem might be finding one (and finding one now, not some alleged bid from Americans in Feb or whenever)

[Jimmy HaveHave]

I would also add that Wellens worked out pretty quick that power never had the funds to give him better quality players to take us forward and decided to get out as soon as a good job was available