Coronavirus

[chalkies shorts]

There will be some people who will weigh up the pros and cons for them and decide to not have the vaccine, an educated choice for them. I respect that. I can see some young very fit people with no known medical issues to decide that getting covid is better than a vaccine.
The long term affacts are unknown and the older you are, the less likely you will be to give a fuck about it. I certainly don't.

[Flashheart]

There will be some people who will weigh up the pros and cons for them and decide to not have the vaccine, an educated choice for them.

What cons are there if the person has no medical reason not to take it?

It's not an educated choice if their reasons are fallacious - it would be more of a choice born out of ignorance.

[Chunkyhair]

An analogy.

Where I work, pre-autoenrolment, we used to have 5% employer contribution pension scheme, no compulsory employee contributions.  One of our senior staff members (a fucking accountant) didn't sign up because he "didn't see the point".

I guess if there are folks who will walk away from literally free cash, then there are folks who won't be bothered about taking a life saving vaccination for what in their minds are good reasons (though what is a better reason than "life saving" I don't know).

Ho hum.

[Shrivvy Road]

What cons are there if the person has no medical reason not to take it?

It's not an educated choice if their reasons are fallacious - it would be more of a choice born out of ignorance.

People have a choice to be ignorant i suppose. People also have a right to deny entry into their places if they decline the vaccine

[chalkies shorts]

What cons are there if the person has no medical reason not to take it?

It's not an educated choice if their reasons are fallacious - it would be more of a choice born out of ignorance.

Its not a path I would choose but there are educated people out there who can come to an informed opinion we may disagree with.
If the reason is that theyre happy to take their chances with covid v potential.long term unknown affects of vaccination, is that uninformed?

[Bob's Orange]

There will be some people who will weigh up the pros and cons for them and decide to not have the vaccine, an educated choice for them. I respect that. I can see some young very fit people with no known medical issues to decide that getting covid is better than a vaccine.
The long term affacts are unknown and the older you are, the less likely you will be to give a fuck about it. I certainly don't.

Equally the long term effects of Covid are also unknown. I'm not really seeing how risking getting Covid rather than getting a vaccine is an 'educated choice'? Unless they are educated in the school of Karen from Facebook.

That said, it is their choice whether most people agree or disagree.

[Bob's Orange]

People have a choice to be ignorant i suppose. People also have a right to deny entry into their places if they decline the vaccine

This is true. Its not at all like when I think back on my time in Edinburgh when people were turned away from nightclubs/pubs because they were wearing trainers which seemed absolutely bonkers to me that a business would turn away money because of the type of shoes the clientelle were wearing.

However if that's the business' policy then you have to respect it. I wonder what the legal ramifications would be for a business to put into place procedure that could deny people that haven't had the vaccine entry? Because its down to Elf and Safety I can see it becoming messy.

[Flashheart]

Its not a path I would choose but there are educated people out there who can come to an informed opinion we may disagree with.

But if it is wrong then it is not informed, rather it's misinformed.

Take the 'it's been rushed' argument which appears to be one of the most common. It's just not true and that is not a matter of opinion. These vaccines have been given the same level of scrutiny as other vaccines and to argue otherwise is factually incorrect.

That makes it an ignorant decision not to get vaccinated on that basis - not an educated one.

That's just one example, there are others.

[Samdy Gray]

Being vaccinated does not stop you from carrying and transmitting the virus, so the whole "you can't come in unless you're vaccinated" is a bit ridiculous, it won't stop community spread.

[Banker]

Being vaccinated does not stop you from carrying and transmitting the virus, so the whole "you can't come in unless you're vaccinated" is a bit ridiculous, it won't stop community spread.

Still an unknown, but recent data for older (vaccinated) people is promising on that score.

[pauld]

Being vaccinated does not stop you from carrying and transmitting the virus, so the whole "you can't come in unless you're vaccinated" is a bit ridiculous, it won't stop community spread.

We don't know that. It's not yet proven that the vaccines stop transmission, which is very different from being able to say definitively that they don't stop transmission. From what I have read and heard the expectation is that once studies have been more fully completed, the evidence is likely to show that at the very least all the vaccines significantly hamper transmission, if not halt it outright. Unless you've read something more recent than I have that definitively shows one way or the other, in which case I defer to your more diligent reading.

[chalkies shorts]

But if it is wrong then it is not informed, rather it's misinformed.

Take the 'it's been rushed' argument which appears to be one of the most common. It's just not true and that is not a matter of opinion. These vaccines have been given the same level of scrutiny as other vaccines and to argue otherwise is factually incorrect.

That makes it an ignorant decision not to get vaccinated on that basis - not an educated one.

That's just one example, there are others.

So anyone who is worried about the long term affects of a new vaccine is wrong. I don't have a problem with the vaccines being rushed and under the same scouting as any other. I do think it's reasonable to be cautious about the long term affects though. Scientists can anticipate what the long term affects may be but they can't actually know until it's been in use 20 plus years.
People can make an informed educated decision based on the risks and decide not to be vaccinated. They are not wrong they just come up with a different conclusion based on the same facts.

[Flashheart]

They are not wrong they just come up with a different conclusion based on the same facts.

But they are not based on the same facts in most cases.

Again, using the example I gave, it IS NOT true that the vaccine has been rushed. That's not just my opinion or even the opinion of the experts. It's an objective fact according to the standards and frameworks used when it comes to making vaccines. People claiming it has been rushed ARE NOT using the same facts as those saying it has not. And they are just plain fucking wrong - according to the objective data involved.

I'm just repeating myself. I'll leave you to it.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

I may heave dreamt this but I thought the vaccine was just a tweaked version of an existing one.

[chalkies shorts]

But they are not based on the same facts in most cases.

Again, using the example I gave, it IS NOT true that the vaccine has been rushed. That's not just my opinion or even the opinion of the experts. It's an objective fact according to the standards and frameworks used when it comes to making vaccines. People claiming it has been rushed ARE NOT using the same facts as those saying it has not. And they are just plain fucking wrong - according to the objective data involved.

I'm just repeating myself. I'll leave you to it.

I agree it's not been rushed and has gone through the same protocols.