Let's Get Political!

[Godd002]

I struggle with the American elections, where you vote for a president but the one who gets the most votes doesn’t necessarily win. Even when the Orange twat was elected, he actually got less votes than Clinton (although no talk of a stolen election then).

As for here, the first time since the 1920’s that Devizes doesn’t have a Tory MP (I know it’s partly down to boundary changes) but not something I was expecting in my lifetime.

It is a big contention of debate in America.   The system was set up when most people were not literate or educated so the founders basically didn’t trust the people.   So the “educated “ IE rich got the final vote.  They are supposed to do what popular vote says but they don’t have to. 

In the end in America the political powers are very wealthy and pretend to understand and care but don’t

[Bogus Dave]

Our system is basically the electoral college isn’t it? Just broken down into 600-odd chunks rather than 100ish

[Nemo]

Our system is basically the electoral college isn’t it? Just broken down into 600-odd chunks rather than 100ish

Yes, although our multi party system tends to produce weirder results using it than America where it's basically two candidates of any chance in any constituency/district. Funny as it was, the chap who beat Truss got about 27% of the votes cast.

[Audrey]

Labour only got 35% of the vote - just 2% up from the last election. Yet they got a landslide victory.

Who would have thought that with Europe lurching to the right the UK would be one of the few centre left governments still around.

[4D]

In labour heartland areas like the NW and NE, there's about 150 seats in a 30 square mile radius 

[McGurk's Missus]

...with Europe lurching to the right the UK would be one of the few centre left governments still around.

I wouldn't say Labour in their current guise are centre left. The centre line of British politics has drifted a fair bit {probably since post Con/Lib parliament}. Even the Tories are currently further right than their traditional right of centre status. I would say that Labour currently is kind of a mix of Tory lite and Blairism {without the gimmicks}. So they are probably just right of centre. Yet that is still a big shift leftwards {ie back closer to the centre} from where the last fourteen or so years has drifted to.

[McGurk's Missus]

In labour heartland areas like the NW and NE, there's about 150 seats in a 30 square mile radius 

Yeah but you do have two very large metropolitan cities within the NW area - Manny and  Liverpool. The NE was more interesting with people reverting back to their traditional Labour voting intention. Many had heads swayed in that region by the soundbites of the alternative {UKIP, Brexit, Reform} and some still did with Reform. Ultimately, I think the penny has finally dropped that those kind of parties, whilst maybe talking a good game {if you have a thing for bigoted parties} they eventually show their true colours - mostly self serving with no interest of real concern for the electorate; other than obtaining their vote of course.

[RobertT]

Labour are quite clearly centre left, even the Tories are a bit lefty at times.  Things like the NHS are not the virtue of a right leaning party.  In fact, some of the Tory rhetoric is historical left, going down the Populist rabbit hole (that blends the extreme of both).  What has happened in the past decade or so is a bunch of social stuff that used to be outside the world of politics has begun to merge in and created new boundaries that don't as easily reflect the old divide.

In this election, the Tories have been undone by the electoral system that usually gives them a hand up in getting power.  As the only option for people on the right of politics, they used to gobble up a secure vote while the left parties would split.  The Reform Party gave Labour a massive leg-up here.  Even then, it's a not as simple as looking at the overall vote %'s because plenty of Labour voters will have gone with Lib Dem in areas where it helped remove a sitting Tory, alongside Reform grabbing some votes.

In an odd quirk, given how this has decimated the Tory seats, you could well see some legislation pass with about 75% of the house voting for it, where interests align with Lib Dems, SNP, Greens and Independents (who seem to be mostly ex-Labour).

My longer term hope is that Labour reflect on this victory and see how it really does pave the way for some sort of PR.  It is unlikely, given history, that Reform and the Tories create such an opportunity next time around, and Labour seats likely switch back.  Knowing that, they don't have the same usual greedy need to retain the system that got them there.  I doubt it though.

My bigger hope is that the Tories and Reform continue to have an internal fight and end-up solidifying two parties for the Right leaning voter to consider in the future.  The UK is left leaning and has been since WW2, it's been terrible that a single right leaning party has managed to retain power for so long.

[sir windon]

Panicked for a moment. Thought I heard our new PM say he was going to “restore Truss”! Fortunately he said “trust”…..

[Bob's Orange]

Panicked for a moment. Thought I heard our new PM say he was going to “restore Truss”! Fortunately he said “trust”…..

I usually have some empathy with anyone losing their jobs in all walks of life, but she really is hopeless isn't she. How on earth she got to be the most powerful person in the country is ridiculous.

[McGurk's Missus]

Labour are quite clearly centre left, even the Tories are a bit lefty at times.  Things like the NHS are not the virtue of a right leaning party.  In fact, some of the Tory rhetoric is historical left, going down the Populist rabbit hole (that blends the extreme of both).  What has happened in the past decade or so is a bunch of social stuff that used to be outside the world of politics has begun to merge in and created new boundaries that don't as easily reflect the old divide.

I agree with what you say, my point was more that the political ''centre ground'' line itself, has shifted slightly rightwards in the last say fifteen years. Quite simply, the Tories lost sight of their traditional values and resulted in largely one priority, no to serve the electorate but to serve themselves.

[Nemo]

One thing that had passed me by until just now is that one of our new Reform MPs is former Southampton chairman Rupert Lowe, who always sticks in my head for bitching to the media that Arsenal had taken advantage of them by only paying £15m for Theo Walcott.

That would be the Theo Walcott Southampton signed from Swindon for about 50p and a bag of footballs.

So there's a local angle.

[RedRag]

Though pleased with the Lib Dem return, I am not especially comfortable with the voting in this election.  

Wisely targeted seats won largely on the back of voter antipathy to an untrustworthy Conservative government well past its sell by date is not the basis for medium term success.  That antipathy will not work for the Lib Dems in 5 years time.  The Blue Wall will revert to Blue.

It amuses the hell out of me to see all sorts of what if Proportional Representation calculations very suddenly being advanced by right wingers.  If the Lib Dems had been allocated the seats per vote that Thatcher's Tories had in the 1983 landslide (and vice versa) then the Lib Dems would have had an unprecedented 200 seat majority.

But the fundamental is that it has been Reform's garnering of voter share that has been the true success of this election.  
Farage is a great disrupter and a great debater.  Playing the outsider brings him popular support that his essentially libertarian economics would struggle to attract.  But he is still viewed by many as a crank and unfit for the top job of governing.  

IMO, he needs to cross the floor, challenge the hapless Tory leader wannabees and lead HM Opposition himself.  That way, he attains a certain gravitas and moves from GB News to the BBC, ITV, Sky and the mainstream press on a near daily basis. He holds a starring weekly role in the HoC trouncing Starmer at PMQs - as well as attracting respectful reportage of meetings with foreign leaders.  

Leading HM Opposition would be a kind of bigot washing for moderates.

[Audrey]

Bigot or not, he represents a large rump of the electorate that wants curbs on unfettered, illegal immigration - as does much of Europe now.

This is a recipe for a disaster that could engulf us all. The right bring nothing else to the table.

[4D]

All eyes on France then