Let's Get Political!

[RobertT]

Quite true, but doesn't mean I'm defending everything they say or do unlike the Momentum brotherhood on here defending St. Jeremy...

I think there is a difference in asking for evidence to back up claims, and just defending someone.

FWIW, Labour have no chance with Jeremy in charge, nor did they with Milliband.  People may not like it, but Politics has always had a bit of personality involved when it comes to the top layer.  Thatcher appealed to a group of people as much as she offended many others, Blair played a PR master stroke, both wiped the floor with the opposition.  Corbyn just doesn't reassure enough of the voters that he isn't going to go full left wing nut job on them, no different than if Skinner had ever run the party.  That's not to say they don't have good ideas.

The crazy thing right now, is the Tory leader is just as bad.  Imagine Thatcher being up against Corbyn (oh, that happened already and Foot was crushed).  Even Kinnock struggled, and he was sort of mainstream for Labour.  Probably lost it because of his stupid Sheffield rally where he suddenly looked like a left wing nut job in waiting and the electorate panicked.

The fact people don't like what happens in some of the media with Corbyn is by the by.  Even with plaudits I doubt he gets Labour elected.  Fantastic back bencher I imagine.

[BambooToTheFuture]

I think it will be a hung parliament.

I can't see the Tories gains outweighing their loses. They'll have a similar tally to last time out, possibly less. I still see the Lib Dems gaining several, despite what the media might be trying to tell us. The  Lib Dems are essentially using the very vast centre ground that has opened up, as opportunity and this will reflect it. Like the hardest of Brexit supporters will vote for Brexit Party, the hardest of Remainers will have an attraction to vote Lib Dem, maybe for the first time. Doesn't matter if some of us think their revocation policy is a lost cause, much sensibility in voter to Party intention went out the window years ago. We only have to look how many votes UKIP received to tell you that. The difference is Lib Dems will make gains because they'll acquire votes where it matters and swing a few Conservative and Labour seats their way. Fact is Conservatives are the only Party who need to gain several seats to stay in Government.

Feels like I'm all in for Lib Dems, it's not the case but just a slightly impartial view. I'm a Green in my heart of heart but voting for them can be difficult in elections that matter. I dislike tactical voting because it isn't really the democracy you're personally voting for.

I dislike how we are made to decide, that we have to like pretty much all of one Parties policies. I may like some of the Conservatives policies (probably not many), or the Lib Dems, Labour, Greens et al. Why is our system all about constant division and allegiance to one Party? Why can't we make all the parties lay down their top 5 detailed and costed policies and vote for the policies that we like, from each one? So we could end up with policies that as a consensus we all agree with more accurately. We could have serious and world leading actions on climate change and our environment, thanks to the Greens. We could have continued world financial institutions and investment banking staying in London thanks to the Tories (yes I said it). We could have fantastic nationalised services in Transport, Hospitals and Utilities thanks to Labour. We could have a UBI and a correctly and legally managed cannabis problem thanks to Lib Dems. We could build a distinct and positive future for future generations. We could even get Brexit sic resolved in the correct way.

If only we could make the parties work together in delivering said combined policies or similar. If only politics could take it's head out of it's arse and drop all this continued deception and lies.

There is a breaking point and regardless of political persuasion the public are getting tired, some are giving up. My mum won't even talk about politics anymore. My Dad (who very much needs the help of the fantastic services of the NHS) has been "media swayed" into being some Tory loving evangelist. Even when I present all the things that are not in his favour or where he would lose out, it is a lead veil of stubborness, riding high on ignorance. I have friends parents who are so invested in Labour that they can't bring themselves to admit the problems Labour has. Even though you can read the admission behind their eyes, they don't want to accept it. Because they really should be smashing this election out the park.

Is it because we are made to pledge allegiances to just one Party, much like we would our favourite sports team, that see's these rivalries worse than any football one? It breeds hatred and division. Politics shouldn't be about that. Not ultimately. Yes we should be free to disagree but when the matters of a nation are left in the hands of several "elected" hundred, by forced allegiance is it any wonder we have come to this political impasse? Until we can vote for individual policies instead of Parties then our system will continue to be extremely flawed and flooded with corruption.

In this important part of history - in which were are living - do we want to be looked back on as the Nation that started a societal collapse that is beyond return?

[Bathtime]

I think there is a difference in asking for evidence to back up claims, and just defending someone.

FWIW, Labour have no chance with Jeremy in charge, nor did they with Milliband.  People may not like it, but Politics has always had a bit of personality involved when it comes to the top layer.  Thatcher appealed to a group of people as much as she offended many others, Blair played a PR master stroke, both wiped the floor with the opposition.  Corbyn just doesn't reassure enough of the voters that he isn't going to go full left wing nut job on them, no different than if Skinner had ever run the party.  That's not to say they don't have good ideas.

The crazy thing right now, is the Tory leader is just as bad.  Imagine Thatcher being up against Corbyn (oh, that happened already and Foot was crushed).  Even Kinnock struggled, and he was sort of mainstream for Labour.  Probably lost it because of his stupid Sheffield rally where he suddenly looked like a left wing nut job in waiting and the electorate panicked.

The fact people don't like what happens in some of the media with Corbyn is by the by.  Even with plaudits I doubt he gets Labour elected.  Fantastic back bencher I imagine.

Difficult to disagree with your assessment - it`s certainly not a new theory - left with the feeling why the party persists with the Corbyn option? If there was ever a time to stuff the opposition you would have thought it would of been now....
I am always gob smacked by how both parties seem to be so detached and continue to lie openly about the general state of affairs and to give us a realistic idea of how we might cope with the future - I guess neither have a clue and are just desperate to get in power....
It would be okay if you think this will all go away in a week but no matter what it won`t be doing that....

[moredonboy]

Very rare poster - perhaps a very scarce human being
The contrived anti semitic weapon has seriously hurt Corbyn's status
His support (and the Labour Party's) for the Palestinians has been at the root of this bogus attack
The Israeli authorities have created an apartheid ethnocratic state - the only one in the world
You may say who cares a shit - but peace in the ME is not achievable until the Palestinian problem is resolved
I believe it and JC and the Labour party does too - but it seems the rest of the world doesn't
Talk to me in ten years (if there hasn't been another major ME war again) - I'll probably be dead
The Ottoman Empire lasted 600 years, and jews (not Khazars) christians and muslims lived peaceably together.
We have and are creating a minefield in the ME - as well as seeing the death of thousands of innocent humans mostly muslims.     

 

[Flashheart]

I think it will be a Tory minority government propped up by the yellow tories (Lib Dems)

[BambooToTheFuture]

I think it will be a Tory minority government propped up by the yellow tories (Lib Dems)

Do you think the LDs will go there again FH? Or do you base it on Swinson sensing any sniff of power? Much like Clegg did. Except this time, Swinson is more a wolf in sheep's clothing. Clegg was a naive lamb to the slaughter. All the LDs did at that time was delay the inevitable. The inevitable that we are all seeing and living in now.

[Red Frog]

I think it will be a Tory minority government propped up by the yellow tories (Lib Dems)

It won’t.

[Flashheart]

Do you think the LDs will go there again FH? Or do you base it on Swinson sensing any sniff of power?

Yes

Yes yes yes.

Yes.

[Flashheart]

It won’t.

Wanna put a fiver on it?

[Red Frog]

Wanna put a fiver on it?

Yep.

[Flashheart]

Yep.

Done

*shakes hand*

[BambooToTheFuture]

Out of interest RF, what do you think the outcome will be?

and

To FH and yourself; I'm being a little ignorant here but even though you don't live here do you still have registered addresses that allow you to vote?

[Abrahammer]

10/1 for a Tory minority if anyone fancies it.

Personally think it will be a comfortable Tory majority

[Flashheart]

5pi [n1

To FH and yourself; I'm being a little ignorant here but even though you don't live here do you still have registered addresses that allow you to vote?

This would have been the first time I voted but I can't; I've been away for more than 15 years.

If I could, I would vote tactically to try and keep the tories out.

[Pax Romana]

I dislike how we are made to decide, that we have to like pretty much all of one Parties policies.....

We could build a distinct and positive future for future generations. We could even get Brexit resolved....

If only we could make the parties work together in delivering said combined policies or similar. .....

There is a breaking point and regardless of political persuasion the public are getting tired, some are giving up. My mum won't even talk about politics anymore......

Labour ..... should be smashing this election out the park.

Is it because we are made to pledge allegiances to just one Party, much like we would our favourite sports team, that sees these rivalries worse than any football one? It breeds hatred and division......

Good post.
 
Think it's a close call between hung parliament and small Tory majority, but only thing I’d really challenge is your proposed solution of putting up a set of policies and letting the electorate vote on them individually.  Danger is that people can then vote for separate policies that are impractical to combine.  E.g. California voting simultaneously to reduce state taxes and increase state spend which practically bankrupted them.
 
But your overarching point that we need to somehow get a government that combines the best policies from across the board is the way to go for me.  The current climate of tribalism, polarised views, and refusal to even consider any alternative viewpoint is turning off vast swathes of people who desperately want to see the return of  (at least an element of) consensus politics.

Future historians could do worse than look at this thread as an example of the problem.  If you deleted the last few hundred pages and replaced them with
 
“Fuck the Tory cunts and all the millions of people who don’t agree with me are either gullible or evil”

then you wouldn’t really be missing much. 

What is particularly depressing is that the vast majority of the comments are focussed on what the posters oppose rather than what they support.

Not intended to be an anti-left criticism.  I’m sure that other football forums with a different dominant political viewpoint have effectively identical threads, just with the facts/opinions/theories selectively culled from a different set of publications.

Like your mum I’m now actively avoiding most of the news.

On Thursday I shall be voting Labour, a party whose key leadership I consider to be either unfit for office (Corbyn) or impressive but misguided (McDonnell).   It beggars belief.